will anyone in the south ever get a break?

[backwoodsbob]

this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6581348

started this.

I busted my ass last fall for president Obama.

I phone banked
I went door knocking
I hung posters
I helped with our local party in a get out the vote

Did I deliver my area of Virginia personally?..nope...but I tried..and there were a hundred other little groups in the red of red areas of the south who tried too..so what do we get?.constant bashing as knuckle dragging cretins who don't deserve to speak.

You know what?I may not live in New York or Berkeley or Boston but I'm just as much a fucking Democrat as anyone else in this Country

I BUSTED MY ASS LAST FALL AND I'M TIRED OF BEING BASHED FOR IT!


Do we have almost daily threads about Gary,Indiana..the home of the klan?
Do we have almost daily posts about Metro Detroit..the most segregated city in the country?


We try guys....we bust our asses trying.It doesn't help when we get CONSTANTLY bashed..it frustrating to have my own side fighting to drive away the very people I'm trying to work with

Fuck..we delivered Virginia..we are trying..what more do you want?

[phantom power]

1. No more banjos.

Actually, belay that. I like banjos.

[zalinda]

30. Banjos make you smile. n/t

[stuball111]

54. A banjo will get you through times with no money,

....but money won't get you through times of no banjo. "John Hartford"

[RoccoR5955]

57. How do you know a banjo player has perfect pitch?

He can toss the banjo into a dumpster on the first pitch!

[stuball111]

63. Good one! I knew a banjo player...

who left his brand new expensive instrument in his car and forgot to lock the doors..... when he returned, there were six more banjos in his car!:rofl: :rofl: :bounce: :bounce:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

92. How do you tell if a banjo players stool is level?

There is drool running out of both sides of his mouth.

[The Midway Rebel]

98. Hey, banjo wise crackers...last I checked

That Pete Seeger asshole was born in Manhattan, New York.

Happy 90 Pete!

(and I mean "crackers" in the non racist sense. I don't wanna keep you honkies down.)
:hide:

[RoccoR5955]

174. Hey, lighten up... Pete is a good friend of mine.

I've known Pete and Toshi for 30 years. They are like family. I've been volunteering for the organization which was his brainchild to clean the Hudson River, Clearwater, for longer than 30 years.

A few years ago, Pete lost his banjo, after doing a gig at my town community center. We did everything that we could to find it, and we did.

And if Pete can laugh at that joke, you can too, so just chill!

[The Midway Rebel]

191. I'm chilled sufficiently perfessor

If you follow the thread you will see I was just bashing back at the South bashers. I am a big fan of Pete and the way he fought for free speech. I am jealous that you know him.

Here is a joke for you and Pete although I'm sure ya'll done heard it:

Q: What is better than a banjo player at the bottom of the Hudson River?

A: Six banjo players at the bottom of the Hudson River!

[stuball111]

142. Ever listen to Drybranch Firesquad?

hilarious!

[HillWilliam]

186. How do you slow a banjo player down?

(a) Put sheet music in front of him

(Q) How do you get him to stop?
(a) Put music on it!

Signed,
a fiddler :)

[notesdev]

2. my impression

Those people don't want our help, they want us to kneel and beg for forgiveness for having the audacity to live south of the Mason-Dixon line.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

76. Unlike you, I REFUSE to fall into "either/or", "black/white", "good/evil" garbage bin.

Quite frankly, I've never heard a TRUE liberal or progressive HERD "southerners" into a bin like the right-wing Republicans,...NEVER, EVER.

So, this divisive bullshit unrelated to reality is what it is,...bullshit.

Most of us are SICK of the red state, blue state bullshit, while some cling to it like parents at a high school football game! IT IS STUPID AND USELESS, IMMATURE AND DEMEANING to the rest of us people who want this nation to IMPROVE (beyond moronic kindergarten skills).

GROW UP. BE MATURE and RESPONSIBLE via something other than 'stations' that revive reckless pre-pubescent crap.

*long breath* That is all I have to say, about that.

[notesdev]

91. I can accept that

... as soon as you link me to your prior posts expressing the same anger at people who have been slamming everyone who lives in the South, which happens quite often.

Fact is, I have been as loud as anyone here in saying we have to stop being divided into colors and into regions and into classes and start realizing that we have core, fundamental interests that are all the same; and furthermore, that the people who do lump everyone into groups and categories are destructive to those shared interests. So to hear your rant directed towards me, of all people here, is quite remarkable. I just posted a video earlier tonight on that very same subject, and the one comment the post got was accusing me of being a Glenn Beck fanatic (to make it even more ironic, I don't even have a television).

I like your anger. Welcome aboard, if you're serious. There are a lot of corrupt people who have been profiting handsomely from dividing us, and it is time to unite across race, class, religion, national origin, and party and truly become one nation again, as was the legacy left to us by our forefathers.

[madokie]

3. I say to those that you speak of

fuck the bunch of 'em

I consider myself southern and proud of it too.

[boobooday]

4. I am down here too, and know many people who worked their butts off for Obama

We are trying. I don't think the bashing is productive. The generalizations are insulting.

[gratuitous]

5. Wait . . . what?

You fought in the Civil War?

[noiretextatique]

6. no bashing from me

however, the history is clear: the south wanted to secede to preserve its way of life, i.e., slavery. on the other hand, i live in california, and there are plenty of run-of-the-mill racists here, and some organized one too, the the american nazi party and the KKK. it is unfair to claim that racists and racism only exists in the south.

[bobbolink]

160. And there were NEVER any southerners who were against slavery, or Jim Crow laws.

NEvER.

Yup, you got that history "clear".

:wtf:

At least there are some southerners who are capable of critical thinking.

[rhett o rick]

164. No bashing? Then you say the South wanted to secede to preserve slavery.

There was a lot more than that. Reread your history book. Only a very small few owned slaves and most that fought in the war were poor farmers and weren't fighting for slavery, they were protecting their homes. I think it does the majority of Southerners a great injustice to say they were fighting to preserve slavery.

[Raineyb]

179. They were fighting to preserve slavery

That they suckered the poor whites into fighting for a system that basically kept them poor by importing cheap labor as to devalue the value of their work goes to show how well the rich manage the message. But they seceded to keep their system in place. Leaving the union to protect their homes? What rot! That reeks of spin so obvious even the blind can see it.

[rhett o rick]

194. "That reeks of spin so obvious even the blind can see it.". With comments like that

you obviously don't want a rational discussion. Goodbye.

[omega minimo]

7. Yes. After the Rapture.

:hi:

[Captain Hilts]

12. Yeah, I laughed. nt

[omega minimo]

15. He hee

:spray:

[RoccoR5955]

61. Don't you mean after the RUPTURE? n/t

[rhett o rick]

163. Would someone please tell me when this Rapture thing is happening. Do I need to mow my lawn

this week. Not knowing is causing hell.

[BlooInBloo]

8. I'm not big on "giving the south a break" just for its own sake....

But that thread seemed a bit gratuitous even to me.

[gratuitous]

21. Hold it!

How did this get to be all about me, me, me?

Okay, I'm not objecting.

[BlooInBloo]

26. (facepalm)

:rofl:

[elocs]

9. So, do you actually believe you are being bashed because you worked your ass off last fall?

Because you did write that in all caps.

[Warpy]

10. Unfortunately, the deep south still seems determined

to drag this country backwards.

All southern states are not alike and all southern states have determined, committed lefties. I used to be one down there.

However, the wingnut churches are deeply entrenched and people seem terrified of throwing off the shackles and progressing. That's why the deep south consistently elects such worthless idiots to office.

I was floored that both Virginia and NC went for Obama last time. I hold out hope the entire region will start to progress.

Church attendance will have to drop, though.

[conscious evolution]

181. why the deep south consistently elects

We southerners are not the ones electing worthless idiots.
The powers that be down here are using Diebold voting machines to select their candidates.

The influence of the church will not be lessened until the political machine is controlling them is removed.

[Captain Hilts]

11. I feel your pain. I lived in VA a LONG time. I'm not a redneck, or even a southerner. nt

[Selatius]

13. As a Mississippian, I couldn't care what somebody else says. I'm too busy with the stupidity here.

The stupidity of my neighbors is of more immediate concern to me than what somebody up in the northern regions has to say about here. They don't live here. They don't know the people here, and they most certainly aren't talking about me.

The only time the stupidity here got to me was after Katrina when Barbour was hailed as a hero. He is a fake. There was no evacuation plans for the sick, elderly, disadvantaged. They were left behind to die, and many of them did. I was a Red Cross volunteer in those days and saw the bodies firsthand. This state is in denial about a lot of the problems that plague it, and the first step towards solving any problem is admitting there is a problem.

[BlooInBloo]

18. I miss the catfish....

But not enough to go back there.

[MineralMan]

70. Catfishing's good up here on the northern end of the Mississippi,

too, ya know. Caught a 25 lb channel cat on a nightcrawler here a couple of weeks ago, fishing in downtown Saint Paul, MN.

You don't have to live in the South to enjoy catfish, I assure you.

[MineralMan]

72. Also, check this out:

http://mo-catfish.com/

Right in Seattle...looks good...great reviews!

[BlooInBloo]

139. Nice find - thanks!

[tosh]

14. There are many who have tirelessly fought the good fight

in the south, not just for Oabama but for civil rights, justice and a better way for those whose ancestors were once enslaved.

We know who we are and can walk proudly wherever we go.

Maybe one day the bashers will see, maybe not.

But we know. That is what matters.

Try not to let it get you down.

:toast:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

16. Are you defending the south's side in the Civil War?

It seems that you're suggesting that that DU thread was bashing the South merely because it called the South's role in the Civil War one that was treasonous. My father and his entire family were from the South and I spent a lot of time in the South as a kid, in Arkansas, Texas, Virginia, and Georgia (my dad was in the military and was stationed all over the place). As a kid, I loved to read about that war and was a big buff. But as an adult, even though I admire the courage and military genius of the Southerners who fought in that war, I just can't support their cause and I would have been in the camp of Southerners like General George Thomas from Virginia, "The Rock of Chickamauga", who would not cast his hand with the anti-unionists and remained faithful to his country, the United States. You are obviously a liberal Southerner with progressive values. If you were projected into the past, to live during the time of the Civil War, would you not see the South's cause as in conflict with your current values? Can you not love the South but hate what they tried to do in the 1860s?

[OttavaKarhu]

39. Uh. It's 2009, dood

My great-great grandfather led troops in the GAR. My grandfather was West Point. I was raised to revile slavery, the Confederacy, etc.

It's time to get past that all now.

And it's time to end the PRESENT war between ourselves as Americans.

Don't you understand? The only winners are the corporations and the ultra-rich.

[Strong Atheist]

184. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[backwoodsbob]

43. of course I'm not defending the souths side of the war

I just get tired of the constant generalizations that ANYONE in the south must be some mouth breather who married his cousin because his sister was married.

We on the left here in the south try so hard to wake people up.We get some successes.My father in law..ten years ago would have said some of the vilest things about President Obama...I worked him for 6 years..he voted for the President.

These are small wins but they are wins.

We try guys ..just give the left down here a break once in a while ok?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

80. But the post you object to, in your link, is about bashing the Confederacy, not the South

The post that you said started this concern was about the Civil War. The OP stated that he/she called it the War of Southern Treason. The OP posted a photograph of an emaciated union POW from a Southern POW camp and stated that they show this photo any time someone speaks good about the Confederacy.

That's why I'm a bit confused. You appear to be a strong liberal and yet you express dismay over a post that bashes the old Confederacy.

As I said, my father and his entire family were from the South and I lived several years there as a kid. I've met a lot of good people there and I don't consider them mental inferiors or hicks. But I don't honor the Confederacy or the Rebel Flag, and I don't puff up with pride when I hear Dixie. Since that post you object to was about the Confederacy and those who continue to praise it (and not about the South) I was just wondering if you were indicating your continued support of the South and the Confederacy in that war. I'm glad to know I'm wrong.

[backwoodsbob]

122. nah it was more just a blow up on my part

there are SO MANY south bashing threads this one for some reason just set me off and I had to respond.

Of course I don't defend the war of southern aggression..just see it from a southern liberal's perspective posting here.We work DAMN HARD to change people only to see thread after thread saying we should just wall off the south and give us up.

We ARE changing people...slowly but surely.

We turned Virginia *my proud state* solid blue.NC too.

We will see more turning as we go.

I'm just asking that we see less blasting of everyone down here as religous nuts who didn't pass the 6th grade is all.

If you don't live down here you wouldn't understand.It's hard to be solid left in a red area but we are making progress.We delivered Virginia in a HUGE way and I'm proud to think that in some small way I contributed to that.

I'm just asking that when people start a thread bashing the entire south to remember there are those of us down here trying our damndest to change thing and we ARE making progress

:pals:

[morillon]

161. I've lived in Georgia all my life, and I don't take South-bashing personally.

It says way, way, WAY more about the person doing the bashing than it does about me. Anyone who would characterize ME or my friends or family as mouth-breathers is obviously deranged, and their opinion counts for nothing. It's impossible for me to take the ravings of the uninformed and the fuckheaded seriously.

[OwnedByFerrets]

58. Ding, ding ding.....Winner of stupidest post on DU today

[QC]

75. The competition for that honor is always very stiff. n/t

[Ghost in the Machine]

83. "Can you not love the South but hate what they tried to do in the 1860s?"

I have a better idea... why doesn't everyone just get over what happened 150 years ago and move forward as a nation? People continue to live in the past, while the present and the future are running over them and leaving them behind...

"You are obviously a liberal Southerner with progressive values. If you were projected into the past, to live during the time of the Civil War, would you not see the South's cause as in conflict with your current values?"

Do you apply this to yourself, today? How do you feel about the "white man" coming to this Country and killing hundreds of thousands of Native Americans and stealing *their* land? Does *that* conflict with your current values?

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. oh 150 years is NOTHING

for grudges that is...

Trust me... this is a young one...

[backwoodsbob]

125. let me put this in a different perspective

I pull an 8 hour at the shop and I'm dirty and tired.

I don't bother to go home and instead grab a chicken sandwich at wendie's and head down to pull 4 hours phone banking or stapling posters to wickets

after leaving at 5 am for work and not rolling home till about 10:30 at night I take a shower then settle down to the comp to relax so I can sleep and the first thing I see is some thread saying we should wall off *jesusland* and write off the south.

It's damned frustrating

[rhett o rick]

166. Are you creating a straw man? He is asking DU not to generalize that all in the South

are backwards or slow. I think that's a reasonable request. Those that are against us try to drive wedges, and this issue is one. And it dont look like you're trying to help. Don't make this more than it is.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

171. Do you even know what a strawman is?

I didn't make up anything. I rely exclusively on this OP's concern over the post at his link. Did you read that post? It was all about bashing the Confederacy for their actions during the Civil War. DURING THE CIVIL WAR!!! How is it that I am creating a strawman when I am asking the OP of this thread to explain why he is concerned with someone bashing the Confederacy over the Civil War? It's clear to me that some of the people on this thread didn't bother to find out what this thread is all about and didn't read the link. They are responding emotionally on the general issue of southern bashing without realizing that this thread was inspired not by southern bashing, but by Confederate bashing and the Civil War.

If you bothered to read the link to the thread that upset the OP, you would know that you are wrong and that this thread is not about asking DU not to generalize that all in the South are backwards or slow.

Nice job in not reading the background of this thread but in lashing out with false accusations.

[rhett o rick]

173. Of course. I will be glad to inform you. "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on

misrepresentation of an opponent's position." You are trying to frame the OP as a defense of the Confederacy during the Civil War. "Are you defending the south's side in the Civil War?" It is clear to me that the OP was asking DU to stop characterizing all Southerners as slavery supporters. The link was a good example of hate against the South. The OP doesn't condemn or condone the actions of the South during the Civil War. He is merely asking that current Southerners be shown respect based on what they are doing today.

The OP objected to the link and others that are attacking the South but you tried to misrepresent him as supporting the Confederacy. That is a straw man.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

182. I think you're just being stubborn

I did not flame the OP. I did not make up a strawman argument. The OP was not primarily asking DU to stop characterizing all Southerners as slavery supporters. If you bothered to read the OP at all, you noticed that it started off by referencing another thread, stating that that thread is what inspired this thread. That other thread was uniquely, exclusively about someone bashing the Confederacy as it was 150 years ago, not the present day South.

How can you possibly dare to accuse me of MAKING UP a strawman, when it was the OP who raised this issue by taking exception to a thread that bashed the Confederacy's actions during the Civil War? Your suggestion about a strawman of my making is absurd and insane. It was the OP who raised this issue, not me.

Tell me, do you not think it's a valid issue to question Southerners as to whether they still fly the rebel flag, march to Dixie, and venerate the Confederacy? I think it's a very legitimate question, particularly when they seem to take exception with others who bash the old Confederacy. I'm satisfied with the OP's own explanation that he was just frustrated and probably didn't mean to vent his feelings over a thread that attacked the Confederacy. He stated that he didn't support the South during the Civil War and that was enough for me, as the OP seems to be a solid liberal. If he can admit that, why can't you see the truth? I didn't try to frame anything. You're spouting absolute bullshit. I asked a mere question and got an honest response.

And if you think a link that bashes the Confederacy for their treatment of Union POWs and their treason during the Civil War was an example of a link that bashes the South, maybe the problem is yours.

When you state the following:

"...The OP objected to the link and others that are attacking the South but you tried to misrepresent him as supporting the Confederacy. That is a straw man...."

you are completely misrepresenting facts. The link did not attack the South. The OP at the link attacked the Confederacy's actions during the CIVIL WAR. I assume now that you are just being stubborn. Where is the strawman on my part? Please point that out. The link involved an attack on the Confederacy, I asked the OP whether he objected to an attack on the Confederacy and I didn't manufacture any kind of strawman. The OP himself raised the issue.

[rhett o rick]

193. The continued posting of OP’s that are derogatory of the South

or any other part of the country is divisive and playing into the hands of our opponents. I read the OP as asking for an end to these divisive posts aimed at the South or the Confederacy. I agree. We have the beginnings of a race war starting, dredging up the Civil War won't help.

While I thought the OP was asking to stop the divisive posts, your response seemed to me to be trying to change the discussion to whether or not the Confederacy should be defended. “Are you defending the south's side in the Civil War?”

By implying that the OP was supporting the South’s side in the Civil War when he clearly wasn’t, and then arguing against that stand, is making a straw-man argument.

I did not claim you “flamed the OP”. Why would you even bring that up? Another straw-man?

[Ozymanithrax]

17. Judging you on your merits A+

Judging the South on its merits F-

Looking at individuls and looking at regional statistics is too different things.

You are not the South. Don't take it personally.

[Ozymanithrax]

20. "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

The diffrence between the south and you is the difference between a "person" and "people."

[monmouth]

19. Being from Jersey is no picnic either ya know. ....n/t

[sandnsea]

22. I know, but we have to keep at it

There's idiots everywhere, no doubt. But when they dominate the political debate like in Arkansas, it can't change unless it's acknowledged.

[pearl]

23. Bravo to Southern Democrats

I mean it. I was raised in Texas and now live in Chicago. I recently spent the better part of 2 years in Burnet County Texas and my god the dems are strong down there. They are on the front lines and they're working their asses off. Surrounded by efffing wingnuts. They are our brothers and sisters. The counter culture and true democratic underground is awesome.

"Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living" Mother Jones

[TX Screwball]

24. Southern Democrats Will Never Get A Break On DU.

That is why we should not donate another dime to this site.

Donate to your local Democratic Party not this place of Hate.



Keep up the good fight Southern Democrats, just don't look for help here.



Peace, Amigos.

[JNelson6563]

116. Really?

Don't donate to "this place of Hate" declares the star-sporting DUer.

Julie--fan of irony

[myrna minx]

25. I admire and respect my Southern Democratic brothers and sisters.

It's easy breezy being a liberal in the Peoples Republic of Minneapolis. Our Southern friends were all but abandoned by the Democratic Party nationally until Dr Dean's 50 State strategy. Folks like you have been working tirelessly and sometimes under threat of violence for just posting a lawn sign - let alone door knocking, registering people to vote, etc. I'm sorry there is such hostility against Southerners here. I don't share the sentiment. :pals:

[backwoodsbob]

65. thanks

its like banging my head against a door sometimes

[redqueen]

27. I feel your pain.

:hug:

(native Texan here)

[myrna minx]

31. Duers need to remember that the was the fighting Texas Dems who

left for Oklahoma to break quorum on a redistricting bill. They defied Tom Delay, who sent Homeland Security after them. :fistbump:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0514-07.htm

[redqueen]

32. Thank you so much for remembering!

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Some of us DO

and applauded them for it

[redqueen]

36. Glad to hear it!

That was some serious Democratic (if not necessarily liberal) backbone on display.

[myrna minx]

38. I truly admire them for that gutsy, brave move against

the Republican thuggery. That kind of bravery sticks with you. :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Ok this is a serious question

you think that discussing HISTORY is bashing a region? That happened...

Just like Sherman's march to the Sea was a war crime too.

So should we forget history now for the sake of sensibilities? I know some folks in this country would love to forget history.

Here is something you should read and comprehend...

Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

The US is moving once again towards Civil War... just an FYI... and if it helps it will not be blue v gray.

[BlooInBloo]

41. Well put. To extend the point....

The OP would do better to yell at his neighbors who continue to think that way, that at us, who berate the region solely because of his neighbors who continue to think that old tired zombie way.

[backwoodsbob]

47. you know I didn't say that

you know what I mean.

started to type something and realized it isn't worth it

peace to you

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. I am a historian by training

so things like the POW camps, and Auschwitz are just part of history.

And some folks have issues discussing either.

Now as I said Sherman's march was also a war crime... under any modern definition. But some folks will bring this up often.

Now you live in the south... you do know some things have not really changed. Much has, but some have not. You do have white supremacy, so do I, and I don't live in the south. But I am just astounded that people have a problem discussing history. And you may not mean it that way, but that is the way it came across at least TO ME.

Perhaps a professional hazard, but this is not the South.. it is the US, we don't want to learn our history no more. (or ever for that matter)

[backwoodsbob]

69. like I said

it's not worth it

some people have everything ground into granite.

Peace to you

[OwnedByFerrets]

62. And if that happens, how will you tell the "good" guys?

Will we have to brand a P in our forehead to let you KNOW we are the good guys, or will you just accept that, because we are "in the South", we are repugs?

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. You feel threatned by discussing HISTORY?

It did happen. Get it over your head.

So did Sherman's march to the Sea.

Now if history is this threatening, we know the scabs are still there, and not healed.

As to the civil war, it is coming and it will NOT be gray v blue, at all. Anybody who believes that does not understand modern guerrilla warfare at all. Oh and by the way that includes anybody, don't care what potential side, who says... I look forwards to it.

[OwnedByFerrets]

124. Thanks for not answering my question, but nevermind.

Its not worthy of discussion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. What were you expecting? Branding?

Yep, scabs are still too fresh.

Well then again... knowing a LITTLE HISTORY, I am aware that sometimes the scabs last for far more than just 150 years... See Europe or the Middle East.

This country is still young, and it is threatened by history.

By the way... it is not the war of Northern Aggression, but a fucking civil war.

[Hissyspit]

29. Speaking as someone who has lived in the South almost all his life, stuff like this doesn't help:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=373205&mesg_id=373205

Meaning, the attitudes and ignorance in the South have REAL-WORLD consequences, as seen in this segment, and should be criticized, and no one should be surprised at criticism. Obviously some criticism is more constructive than other criticism.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Ok national stats don't help?

Sorry I am dense

[Hissyspit]

46. No, my fault. I edited it down. I don't mind people bashing the South.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Going over national stats is not bashing

sorry.

Those are NATIONAL STATS... and if they happen to be concentrated in California (that is coming with the budget mess) so be it. I will not be offended.

Now if you consider that bashing, perhaps we should just plain out stop keeping them

[Hissyspit]

51. I'm not being clear. With stats like this, it is no surprise there is bashing and it doesn't bother

me. There SHOULD be bashing. The incredible types of ignorance engrained in the South produce real-world results, as the stats in Rachel's segment show. So as someone who lives in North Carolina, I am not surprised by the bashing that occurs here at all, and no one else should either. I have no problem with Rachel making the statistics known, I'm the one who posted it. In fact, I wish it had gotten more attention.

[Raineyb]

40. You're objecting because it's true?

I don't get it. The states whose population would most benefit from reform have representatives that most fight against reform and it's not supposed to be pointed out?

[Hissyspit]

49. Sorry, my bad. As someone who is from the South, I don't mind the bashing

because of situations like Rachel talks about. With the Bible Belt mindset, it's pretty bad down here. The hypocrisy and ignorance can be found everywhere, and there are plenty of liberal enclaves, Asheville, NC, Chapel Hill, NC, Athens GA, but there is no point in denying how backwards the South is still in many ways IN GENERAL. With reality like Rachel talks about, there should be no surprise there is bashing, fair or not.

[Raineyb]

53. Oh. I misunderstood your first comment. My bad. n/t

[Neecy]

33. I've lived in every region of the country...

And at least from my experience the south wasn't the most racist. That "honor" went to the south side of Chicago.

The second most racist place I lived was Los Angeles. During college, I worked at LAX as a gate agent for a major US airline. A couple of days after I started I got a call at my gate that an "LRN" was coming. Not wanting to look stupid, I thanked the ticket agent and asked a co-worker what this was. He laughed and a couple of minutes later a black guy came to my counter. Yes, an LRN was a "late running n-----" and I can't count how many of these calls I received over the summer. I was so grossly offended by this I started confronting people about it, but it didn't stop anyone from using it. I was never so glad to leave a job in my life.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DonCoquixote]

106. Excuse me

This is one good reason why so many people hate Mr. Obama--he alienated many people with classist and racist comments.

The man has bent over backwards to not mention race. If you mean the infamous bitter comment, I have news for you, many people are indeed BITTER, and frankly, why should they NOT be? People only got offended because being BITTER was considered bad, whereas frankly, all Americans , if they saw how badly we were screwed, would at least flirt with being BITTER.

[Fumesucker]

42. Y'all might want to keep in mind how hard it is to be a liberal in some parts of the South.

I recall what it was like here in 2003, I felt very isolated and ended up losing quite a few friends because I simply couldn't keep my mouth shut in the face of the abject stupidity.

[BlooInBloo]

140. Um, that's why the rest of us yell at the south so much.

Rather than bitching at us, y'all might do better to expend you energy bitching at your neighbors, or whoever it is down there that makes it so hard "to be a liberal in some parts of the South"

It appears we agree on the basic facts. We only disagree who should be yelled at.

[Fumesucker]

144. I guess you missed the part where I mentioned losing friends..

I paid a fairly high price for my liberalism, actually jumped out of one guy's car and walked seven miles home when he told me to just shut up because he couldn't counter the points I was making.

[BlooInBloo]

146. Good to see we agree on all points then.

[Fumesucker]

150. It's easy to act superior when you're not right in the middle of things..

It's human nature not to listen to outsiders who come in telling you that you are doing something wrong. People are far more likely to listen to their friends and neighbors than they are someone they have never met and who lives a long way away.

I actually got through to a few people and changed some minds but it took a very long time.

[BlooInBloo]

153. (shrug) I spent years listening to "outsiders" tell me I was doing shit wrong...

And earned several degrees as a result. The last degree was challenging, but certainly not contrary to *my* "human nature".

Speak for yourself.

[Fumesucker]

154. Apples and zucchini..

Voluntarily getting an education is far different from having someone yell at you on a message board.

[BlooInBloo]

155. Not really. People who want to learn/change/grow will accept being wrong as one of the costs...

Those who don't, won't.

It's all good - we all know the southerners we're talking about are the way they are because they WANT to be. It's nobody's fault but their own.

Whining about being yelled at - when they are in fact wrong (the ones we're talking about - is nothing more than defending their desire to be wrong.

[backwoodsbob]

159. and defending whining ass city dwellers is better?

[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raineyb]

188. What Bloo is talking about has nothing to do with being a city dweller

Your gratuitous insult of city people plays into the stereotype of the whiny ass know nothing shit kicker. Was that your intention?

[Dappleganger]

195. Why don't you do more to support us?

Instead of telling us who to bitch at.

I'm sick of the south-bashing, too. In this age where people relocate to all corners of the US this type of bigotry (and YES, that is what it is) should be few and far between on DU.

[MineralMan]

44. Of course there are many progressive people in every

southern state. Kudos to them, for their battle is difficult...perhaps impossible.

And yet, the southern states, now excluding North Carolina and Virginia, continue in their obstruction of equality and espouse reactionary values as a group. That's not your fault, by any means, and I highly value your battle.

I have not lived in a Southern state. I drove my old Chrysler to Selma in 1965 to march. Afterwards, I drove through several states in that region. Has there been progress? Certainly there has, and I have hope that those states will eventually come into the light. Until they do, however, with your help, no doubt, I withhold my support for those states which have reactionary, bigoted policies as their official policies.

I will criticize the region freely for the will they express in their elections. That does not reflect on anyone who espouses progressive policies. It reflects on the official stand of those states and what their majority does.

I don't go to any of them any more. I don't purchase from businesses that are in those states. That's my contribution to their change. I'm vocal about it.

If you're a progressive, I salute you. You have a difficult task ahead of you. But don't expect me to celebrate the policies enacted in those states. I will not. Ever.

[backwoodsbob]

60. do you withold and criticise Cali?

they passed prop 8 and have a repuke governor

last I checked my state has a dem governor..two dem senators..and a dem majority in the house...and yet we get talked down to

[MineralMan]

66. Actually, yes, I do criticize California.

I lived there most of my life. Now I live in Minnesota.

California has turned into a hellhole. Economically, politically, and personally. It was the home of the hypocrite Reagan. It is a cesspool of scarcely hidden bigotry, and I grew up there and know that bigotry on a personal level. My home town did not allow black people to spend the night until the 1960s. I abhor much of its history. You want more?

We're not talking about California in this thread, though, are we?

You want my opinion of Wyoming? It sucks, as does North Dakota.

Still, none of those states acted traitorously during the Civil War. None institutionalized slavery, the most obscene thing of which I know. None attacked the United States of America. None lynched blacks with crowds standing around cheering.

No doubt you are a good person. The South, as an institution is not. I hope you have some success in changing that. Until then, I withhold my support for those states, with the current exceptions of Virginia and North Carolina, which seem to be rejoining our nation.

[backwoodsbob]

74. so we must pay forever

for what happened 160 years ago.

Gotcha

So the children for how many generations must pay until your bloodlust against us is payed?

[bvar22]

81. Pop Quiz:

Which state holds the record for the most black men lynched in a single day in front of cheering crowds?

Which states had the largest open Slave Markets?

Which states openly participated in "Ethnic Cleansing" as a state policy?
(Hint: See Minnesota "Trail of Tears" 1840)

Which states continued to participate in "Ethnic Cleansing" long after the end of the Civil War?

Which states STILL use race and ethnic origins to assign certain races to 2nd class status?

Which state OWNS Michele Bachmann?



You really should study US History before making broad generalizations about geographical locations.

OH, and see someone about that log in your eye.

[The Midway Rebel]

93. Respectfully sir,

Your comment "none institutionalized slavery" is misleading. Slavery was institutionalized in the Constitution.

[KoKo]

45. Good Point! Thanks for posting. We here in the South really try...and

it's hard to get tarred and feathered by the unenlightened amongst us...just like those Dems in the rest of the country who have their own hate groups...or elitists who still promote hate...but they don't have a "funny accent."

[TxRider]

50. What do we need a break for?

[femrap]

55. Well since you asked, I'd like

to see Alabama, S. Carolina, Mississippi and maybe a couple of others secede...go be their own country.

[OwnedByFerrets]

56. I reached a boiling point today when Eds sit-in

made this statement: Lets just wall off all the southern states and let them succeed. He then went on a rant about just HOW to accomplish this. FU Nor-man Gold-man. We DID work our asses off down here and we STILL work every day to change the prevalent attitude here. I was born in Alabama and will probably DIE in Alabama and just because your "better than thou" ass doesnt like my state doesnt give you the right, on national radio, to wish it out of the US.
Btw, bravo to your thread.

[Texasgal]

59. I find it interesting that

that the civil war is discussed on DU much more than it has ever been discussed in all of my life living in the south.

:eyes:

[bvar22]

67. I've noticed that too.

:shrug:

[QC]

77. Yeah. This is the only place I ever go where people sit around refighting the Civil War.

Am I am from the Deep South.

[Texasgal]

79. It's really odd isn't it?

I mean I cannot ever remember having such conversations with anyone. Funny to think that the "south" somehow cannot get over it? :shrug:

I'd rather discuss anything else!

[QC]

82. A lot of people only come here to hate, and one pretext is as good as another for them.

If it's not Southerners it's religious people, or poor people, or the working class, or GLBTs or pits bulls or people who shop at WalMart or whatever.

[suzie]

112. I've never heard the terms "War of Northern Aggression" used in the South as much as on DU.

No one in my family ever said that, including my grandparent's generation, born after the Civil War but in the 19th Century. And my family has always lived in the South.

[supernova]

89. Best. Truth. On. DU. Ever.

I've hardly ever talked about the CW with family or friends here. But on DU, the CW lives.

:patriot:

[tammywammy]

118. Agreed!

The only time I've ever discussed the Civil War was in history class, and no it wasn't called the "War of Northern Aggression" either, again I've only heard that on DU.

[LatteLibertine]

64. Ultimately the country is moving in the right direction

Don't let a loud vocal minority ruin it for you.

Racism is a tool that is often used by the wealthy/ruling class to divide people. They don't want poor and middle class coming together.

Thank you for your hard work. Stay positive.

[NuttyFluffers]

68. the first step to help is to stop enabling and encourage admission. and...

you, your individual self, are not the South in its entirety. to get so caught up in identity politics -- without acceptance of balance -- is an act of hubris. and hubris brings failure and collapse.

your states (hey, my dad's from the South as well) have real problems. no more sweeping it under the rug, gotta get help. you work hard, great; there's still more work to do. and playing nice and pretending everything is wonderful is not going to help -- that's enabling. when your neighbors finally start seeing inside and out that something's no longer OK, then things can change. but that can only happen when everyone starts talking and acting about how everything is NOT OK.

California got bashing about prop H8 and the stupidity of a republican minority holding our budget hostage and our stupid proposition system. but you know what, that's OK, certain of my state's reps and the state itself deserves such criticism. and a group of my people deserved it, too. i cannot defend the indefensible -- and i won't. nor will i ask everyone to hold back and play nice and say everything is OK. it's not, it's all wrong, it needs to change. and my identity as a Californian is strong enough to accept *warranted* criticism and not defend it. there's good about my state, too. that i will defend. criticize stupid policy decisions in California all you want, i'll probably jump in and stand there with you against my fellow Californians (the ones who are misguided); complain about how California brought the plague of blue jeans, flip flops, and sunny weather and i'll think you're a lunatic. my identity is stable enough to choose fights for what is best about my state and my nation and community.

sometimes in the dialogue with our neighbors, even other states, we need to find enough strength in our identity to be proud when it does good -- and be wholly embracing of criticism when it does bad. to do otherwise allows bad behavior to continue unchecked. sometimes feeling shame, and reminding others to have the moral clarity to feel and understand the same, is the healthiest thing for one's ego and identity. without awareness and contrition there can be no effort to change for the better...

[SoCalDem]

71. Here's the deal

There is currently NO ONE living in the "south", who participated in or caused the Civil war, but MANY there (whose families go waaaaay back) who take a perverse pleasure in being recalcitrant, racist, sore losers. They taint the ones who came later, with good intentions.
The shitheads choose to identify with the worst , and are very up-front in their opinions, so of course they become the stereotype.

there are "plus-sized" models, and child models, and male models..but when someone says "model", the image that pops into most people's brains is of a very tall, white woman..usually blonde.

When people hear "The South", they also have a preconceived idea of what that means. Why? Because the southerners have cultivated that romantic image of the steadfast, Johnny-Reb, just out to defend his homestead.. the movie industry put out many films in the 40's & 50's that glamorized that war, and painted a very sympathetic picture.

It was an insurrection, a secession, and the recognized government put it down. The generals surrendered, but the populace refused to accept it. Enough of them have kept the fire burning in their progeny ever since.

Like everything else, it's macro v micro.

[The Midway Rebel]

94. Interesting post...

for a Yankee. :+

I would add that the movie industry depiction and the whole myth of the Lost Cause of the Confederacy created during the 30's and 40's was written and directed largely by Southern scholars, writers and directors. (DW Griffith and Margaret Mitchell come to mind.)

You wrote:

"The generals surrendered, but the populace refused to accept it. Enough of them have kept the fire burning in their progeny ever since."


This is true but over looks the whole Reconstruction thing where the Souths natural resources were plundered by Northern industrialist, population exploited by carpetbagger politicians and its destroyed infrastructure left neglected by the federal government. For years after the war the South was like a Third World country. So, it's more than the fire burning in my progeny or folks being sore losers.

Its the poverty.

[bvar22]

73. Fuck 'em. They're proof that bigotry isn't limited by geography.

The South is beautiful, and belongs to all of us.
My wife and I moved to the rural deep South from Minneapolis in 2006.
If "they" wall off the South, we're happily staying on this side.



To those who "hate" The South, please don't come here.
We already have enough bigots.


bvar22 & Starkraven,
helping turn The South Blue

[suzie]

113. That is one beautiful garden.

[backwoodsbob]

119. hmmm

lets see...a picket gate and what looks like an iron gate

some picket fence along with some pole fence and a little wicket mixed in

you adapted nicely :toast:

welcome to the south neighbor :)

[bvar22]

134. Thanks !

..and if you're ever in the neighborhood, drop in for some Greenbeans and Cornbread.
:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=268x2601

[TK421]

78. I used to bash the south here often....things changed once I actually met

people who were Democrats...gave everyone a fair shake and would give you the shirt off their backs; they were from the south. Sure, there is the guilt factor but I'm not killing myself over it..it's done. I try to remember that there are people on this board who live in the south-deep south who share the same views most of us do here...why punish them for where they live? It really is pointless...I believe they would have it different if they wished it, so I let it go.

Now..I just look at it as counterproductive....and it is.

[supernova]

88. I think I love you

:hug:

I wish more people at DU felt as you do.

BTW, Andersonville is a part of our history and I have no problem with people talking about it. I think everyone needs to own their on regional evil.

I do have a problem with people saying The South will never be different, or that we can't ever possibly escape our history, because, well, we're too stupid.

To that sentiment, I say a hearty and hail fuck you.

[TK421]

99. It just doesn't solve anything, you know? Oh....I have to make an exception to Florida

because....I lived there for a while and I found it to be hell on earth. I certainly hope you don't even consider that state to be part of the south, for if it were to break off and drift away into the Atlantic I wouldn't shed a tear ( I would, however make damn sure my sister and her family come back home )

[JackRiddler]

84. Your post is irrational.

You busted your ass, good for you.

How are you being bashed for that? You're not.

So why are you feeling that?

The post that has you excited is about the Civil War. How is that an attack on you? It isn't.

That post is a factual description of a piece of history.

It's a criticism of those who would fly the Confederate flag, or who would rename the war "The War Between the States," or who would blame the war on the North or on Lincoln, or who would still speak today of nullification or "states' rights."

Again, there's no "bashing" in there at all of people who busted their ass for Obama, like yourself, or of all people in the South. I can't imagine the level of insecurity you must feel to project anything of the kind on that thread.

So please don't invent false divisions. Thank you.

[DireStrike]

85. Yeah, I see your complaint.

The civil war was treason by the south.

The RESPONSES in that thread may have had south bashing, but the OP certainly did not.

[DonCoquixote]

86. as someone who lived half his life

In the North and Half in Florida, I will tell you plainly:

Are there "rednecks" up north. HELL YES! I say this as a Puerto Rican that had to deal with many of those ones beating the hell out of me! All those Fine Irish and Italian types, who went to Catholic Churches that were as closed minded as any Southern Baptist one! Your classic Archie Bunker types, the same ones that howl like cats at Town Halls, even as they say they were loyal democrats for years!

Now, are there dumb fucks down here, Hell YES! But while it is frustrating, there are some of the democrats finest warriors down here, I know because I am one of them, one of them that got FLORIDA BLUE, DAMMIT!, with not a lot of help from a lot of people in my own party! It's easy to be a leftist in New York, not down here where the enemy knows they can kick your ass and get impunity from the local cops! And no, they are not BLUE DAWGs, but many of them to the left of Cesar Chavez!unlike many eco activists whose knowledge of soil extends no farther than their trip to Whole Foods, many of these folks know how to work the land, although a rich white boy owns the land they would work!

It's times like this that I get sick of hearing people say "why did we win, and have so little to show for it?" Because we on the left would rather fuel with each other than fight the real enemy, because it would mean that we have to put our EGO aside! That is why Bubba is down south chuckling, knowing that whatever ground we get, we will give to him at the end!

[Touchdown]

87. Yes. Dolly Parton. Everybody likes her.

Once she's passed on, then we'll find another southerner to love. We only get one at a time.;)

[dbt]

90. Certainly Not Here.

Next question...

[dysfunctional press]

95. abolish nascar, and we'll talk...

[madeline_con]

97. Watkins Glen hosts it, too. And Indianapolis, Detroit, Loudon, N.H.

STFU, you dumb yankee.

[pecwae]

168. The only place I've ever seen

a Nascar parade was on the main street of Lewisburg, PA. Last time I looked PA was above the Mason-Dixon line.

[madeline_con]

96. Biggest hicks I ever saw were n NY. n/t

[ArbustoBuster]

100. Allow me to be blunt.

Have you ever called the Civil War "The War of Northern Aggression"? No? Then that post wasn't about you. (And I thank you for being a good person.)

If you have ever called the Civil War "The War of Northern Aggression", then the post was about you and frankly you deserved it.

This applies to people from both sides of the Mason-Dixon line.

[QC]

120. The only place I ever hear that term used is DU,

where it is quite popular among self-righteous shits looking for opportunities to hate.

[pecwae]

167. And they all heard it on

The Beverly Hillbillys reruns. It just sounded too good a phrase not to toss it around here to impress others and generally stir shit.

[QC]

170. That's very likely where they heard it.

And you're definitely right about the motivation.

[NaturalHigh]

101. I'm pretty sure that the South will always be bashed on DU.

Every state in the South could go blue overnight, and we would all still be racist crackers to a lot of posters here.

[suzie]

114. +1000

[optimal-tomato]

102. K&R

I live in the ever-reddening state of Arkansas and I'll tell you two truths.

1: The voting bloc of conservative southern white men (and some women) that poisoned the Democratic Party until the 1960's and 1970's have shifted over to the Republican Party, and they are now poisoning it. That bloc is poisonous, hateful, backward, and self-destructive.

2: The liberals that have to live nextdoor to those people are FAR more fed up with them than anyone else is. If we could, we'd turn the whole country blue, but those idiots have a stranglehold on most of our local politics. No one was more upset about the ballot that passed banning gay (and unmarried) couples and individuals from adopting in '08 than liberal Arkansans. We're the ones (about 40% of the population) that have to live with the consequences of their carelessness and bigotry.

I won't defend the Confederacy. I would never. But I do get a bit upset by the flippant responses like "why did we stop them from seceding?". I'm glad Arkansas is still part of the US, because I hate to think what we'd be like if the majority in my state had gotten its way.

[JackDragna]

103. No. Not until we're all blue..

..do we deserve a single shred of sympathy, compassion or understanding from anyone in the North. You can bust your butt all you want: I did, too. We still deserve the scorn and ridicule from coming toward one of the most deeply bigoted, ignorant and paranoid areas in the Western hemisphere.

[TannerBoyle]

107. Why should you feel guilty over something that you didn't take part in....

...that happened over a century before you were born?

[The Midway Rebel]

108. It is the consequence of living...

in a defeated nation.

[backwoodsbob]

127. I dont feel guilty

don't know how you got that from my post

My family didn't move here till after the Civil war so I don't have anything to feel guilty about

[The Midway Rebel]

165. I did not get that from your post

Please observe that my reply was to the now deceased DU disruptor, Tanner Boyle.

[liquid diamond]

109. Save your efforts or work in a battleground state. The GOP

can have the South.

[backwoodsbob]

111. save my efforts?

last I checked *my efforts* and those of thousands like me gave Virginia a dem governor..two dem senators..and a dem majority in the house.

Should I say fuck it and not try to repeat that performance?

it's people like you that drive me crazy

[Lochloosa]

115. Ditto for Florida.

The South Shall Rise Again. And this time it will be Progressive.

[liquid diamond]

158. We don't need any of the southern states to win the electoral college.

The GOP can have the South. We could use your efforts in Ohio or Western states like Arizona and Nevada.

[cwydro]

121. That's idiotic.

Go away.

[Skip Intro]

110. That NC flipped impressed me more. I mean, dayum.

[aikoaiko]

117. If one looks at the state by state election results you see that most states were within 10% swing

Most of the states that voted for McCain really were close, as were many states that voted for Obama.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/map.html

Thank you for working so hard.

[annabanana]

123. I am in awe of the Blue workers in Red places.

To be a liberal Democrat in Dixie is to carry the message into enemy territory. Please remember that the broad brushing of the South is NOT aimed at you.

[LibDemAlways]

126. There are racist cretins all over the place.

Your racist former Senator George Allen was born and raised in California. I have racist family in New Jersey.

Virginia did go blue, thanks in no small part to people like yourself. When places like Alabama and Mississippi start to show signs of political sanity, I'll believe the worm has fully turned. Something like 10 or 11 per cent of white people voted for Obama in those places, vs 40 % nationally, which speaks volumes about the mentality of the deep south. One of my neighbors here in So. Cal. is a transplant from the Atlanta area, and she says one of the things she likes best about living in this area is that "the white people generally don't despise black people" as was the case in her previous neighborhood.

[blueworld]

128. There will always be a South...and those who bash need bashees

Don't let it get ya down. I'm here in VA also & my family roots are straight out of "My Cousin Vinny". Mom's family is Southern, Pop's family from Italy. I'm lucky - it's warm & loving & still frankly hysterical to watch the fireworks fly over polenta vs. grits. :rofl:

Virginia has given this country 8 presidents & other great statesmen. The South gave us Martin Luther King, Jr. There were slaveholders in the North & abolitionists in the South. History always contains horrors - no matter whose it is.

Africans sold their war captives INTO slavery, as well as those poor souls that were kidnapped by whites. Women would never have gotten the vote without men to vote it in.

Yes, we need to acknowledge history & learn from it, but we don't need to do penance forever.

When the south-bashers start their ego trips, pick a cheek for them to kiss & whistle "Dixie" - I even taught my parrot to do it!

[TK421]

131. "What is a grit"?

[barbiegeek]

129. Your Right! We can't win without you :)

[DefenseLawyer]

130. Gary, Indiana isn't the home of the klan.

Indiana does have a nasty history with with klan, particularly in the 1920s. But Gary? No. The population of Gary is 85% African American. It is hardly the home of the klan.

[mdmc]

132. Jimmy Carter RULZ!

[Juche]

133. People aren't referencing people like you in those threads

Its great that there are progressives in the south. One of the more progressive people I know is a white woman from the south.


However, again, you have to consider the south in its entirety. When the GOP opposed civil rights, about 2/3 of all white voters became republicans. In the deep south it is 80-90% of white voters.

Anyway, I have bashed the south but when I do I am talking about all the voters who are republican mostly because it is the party that opposed integration 50 years ago. Sadly the south has voted along racial tension lines for 150 years. When Lincoln and the GOP beat the south in the civil war, white voters in the south became democrats for 100 years. Without those voters we couldn't have gotten the new deal passed. But in the 1960s when civil rights happened, the GOP was the party that was oppressive to minorities, so everyone switched.

I have never referred to people like you when I attack certain segments of the south. I think its great you are standing up for progressive causes. However I think the rest of us have a right to be pissed at some of the behavior in the south.

In the south 19/26 senators are GOP, and they are mostly wingnuts. Outside the south only 21/74 senators are GOP, and they as a whole are more moderate (Snowe, Collins, Lugar, McCain). Its a valid criticism to be upset about that.


I'm from Indiana. If people want to attack Indiana for having its share of bigotry and wingnuts, that is fine by me. Just as long as they are aware that not everyone in Indiana is like that.

Also, being from one of the reddest counties in Indiana, I know what its like to be a progressive surrounded by dogmatic simpletons who think Limbaugh knows more about climatology than the AMS or WMO. But I know when people bash wingnuts, they aren't talking about me personally despite me being surrounded by them.

And it takes courage to stand up for progressive values in a deep red area. So Kudos to you. I know when I got my bumper sticker I was afraid I'd get my car keyed. When I went knocking on doors in my Obama shirt I was afraid of people throwing things at me.

[JackRiddler]

135. Karl Marx on "The North American Civil War" (1861 article)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6586164&mesg_id=6586164

[troubledamerican]

148. Supreme Court-appointed President Palin will give the South their revenge.

Palin's "victimization" as "backwoods hickster" will be the source of her "base".

Think it can't happen?

Stalin, Hitler & Mussolini were figures of ridicule.

Each sparked a minority mob's passions.

All were failed artists (Stalin: failed poet, Hitler: failed painter, Mussolini: failed journalist, Palin: failed sportscaster).

All single-mindedly obsessed with power at any cost.

All SHOCKED the majority who had written them off with ridicule.

Stalin was from Georgia, a Russian backwater analogous to Alaska -- a region ridiculed as hillbilly, and a region that has political movements for independence like Alaska.

The exact same scenario is playing-out while DUers ridicule.

And the Marx article is dead-on correct -- never forget who started the War of Southern Treason & why -- but time's up, to repair the damage caused by phony "Reconstruction" & 14 decades of neglect of redeveloping Southern poverty (Katrina reconstruction being the latest heritage example).

But now the South will have its revenge. Here comes Palin's "Third Party".

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

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[PopSixSquish]

137. As a Southerner, I Do So Love Being Lectured on "Our" History

as if we didn't know it, having been sprung somehow fully-formed from our momma's wombs yesterday. I also enjoy the condescension of being told "well,the thread wasn't about you".

Actually, it's about all of us. The history of this country good or bad, doesn't belong to a region or group. And to quote the movie Gettysburg, "Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit. You take men one at a time."

Change comes when all of us who believe in justice, equality and dignity regardless of the region or group, do something about it.

I'd invite "all ya'll" (that being plural of the phrase) to come down here sometime. I'll be happy to show you "our" history, good and bad and how we live our lives everyday trying to grow up as a nation...

[graywarrior]

138. This is how I felt living in the south, specifically SC, LA, GA & MS

I never knew if I could trust someone after meeting them for the first time. I had heard the "N" word so many times fifteen minutes after I met someone, I just realized that the majority of those living there were bigots. I didn't last long in the south because of that and because I was asked constantly what was I doing there.

In fact, one of the VP's at Motel Six in GA made this comment to me and Mr Gray when we worked there and we complained about some management issues "look what happened the last time you guys came here," meaning the Civil War. That was the bottom line for me. I thought FL would be a little different because of the influence from the northerners who lived there, but no, it was just as bad.

I am happy to be back in NE where the bigotry is still strong but at least people here do not use the "N" word so freely.

[Texasgal]

141. The very first time I ever heard the

"N" word used so freely was when I was visiting some friends in Philadelphia a few years back.

I was shocked and thoroughly disgusted, and I was raised in Texas.

[graywarrior]

145. I was at a party one time in Cambridge, MA with some doctors I worked with and one of them

dropped the N word. This was in the early 70's. I couldn't believe it.

[jonnyblitz]

157. bigotry is alive and well up here in the northeast and right wing

radio thrives. I have lived all over and I would say Boston is one of the most racist cities ever.

[Raineyb]

190. No shit. In NYC the amount of right wing radio available for your brain cell

killing pleasure is staggering. Progressive radio? Not so much.

[stuball111]

143. Sorry we got on the banjo thing, seriously...

Kudos to you for fighting so hard , and southerners are taking a bad rap, most I have met are nice people, and there are lots of good Democrats there. I think because of the bible belt areas the conservatives have a hold on the south, but that may change. Keep up the fight!

[David Zephyr]

147. What many don't understand is that it's a lot harder being a liberal in the South.

I organized the moratorium against the war at my college campus in Texas. I have family here in California and in the South, and for the most part, nearly every family member of mine in the South are all progressives. They take a lot of heat for being liberal. They deserve our respect.

Thank you for your activism.

[Blue_In_AK]

151. I feel your pain.

Alaska gets bashed quite a bit, too, not only for Sarah Palin, Ted Stevens, et al., but many times for our Permanent Fund which seems to drive some people in the Lower 48 absolutely crazy.

But I think you're right, the South catches more than it's share of flak. People do tend to generalize, and you have to admit that there are some real knuckle-draggers down there -- just as there are here.

[ecstatic]

152. Why take it personally if it doesn't apply to you?

Maybe I'm just different in that I don't get personally offended if someone says something about the state I live in. 9 times out of 10 its true. I guess maybe other people are emotionally connected to their states.

[TK421]

156. I think I have an idea about this....but not from a southerners viewpoint

You see...I'm emotionally connected to my state ( P.A ) I grew up here, I love it here and I feel that ( I'm not saying this to be haughty ) we have lots of resources and natural beauty that few states can match...places that you can go where you feel like you are stepping back into time, and the scenery is gorgeous.Upper Bucks County is where it's at when it comes to the fall season because it is the epitome of the fall...the feel of it, the coming of the holidays..etc .I get pissed off when people make generalizations about it, like the first thing they see when going to Philadelphia are slums and crack-houses, and there are many....MANY nice neighborhoods in Philadelphia where people actually walk the streets, shop, dine, participate in group activities etc and NOT GET SHOT AT!!!!! The same goes for the famous Pennsyl-Tucky reference about central P.A. Yeah, I've been out there myself and have met plenty of rednecks...you see, every state has an area like that, but P.A for some reason seems to get a bad rap for it. Maybe people think it's odd that such and area exists between two major cities.

Oh, I have to add...western P.A seems to hate eastern P.A and vice versa....I do not share that sentiment....and I don't know where the fuck it comes from, either but I sure do fucking hate it

[pipi_k]

169. OK, I just have to say this, after reading much of this thread

and some of the "flounce" thread as well (which is now locked)...

Aren't you identifying yourself with The South just a little too much?


I mean, you are NOT "The South".

No more than I "am Massachusetts"

If people want to say bad things about Massachusetts, what do I care? I was born here. I've lived here nearly 57 years. But I'm not the state, and the state isn't me.


PS...and yes, I am one of the many who realize, and acknowledge, that Obama probably would not have won without some hard, hard work from people in the south.

Stop being the personification of The South and start feeling proud of who you really are, and all the hard work you did.

[Touchdown]

172. It's not the South per se. It's Hollywood's obsession with it in the 70s

The rest of us got so sick of it, we went and saw Star Wars 50 times just to keep them away from theaters.

Convoy
Smokey and The Bandit
Dukes of Hazzard
Carter Country
Smokey and the Bandit 2
Hooper
Every Which Way But Loose
Deliverance
Any Which Way You Can
Dallas
The Waltons
White Lightening
Cannonball Run
Hooper

EDIT: How could I forget Bronco Billy!!!!!:puke:

That said, I do like True Blood.:D

[retread]

175. I can't believe as a politically aware white male you don't encounter the "knuckle

dragging cretins" on a daily basis. I know I do. When people "bash" the South I figure they are bashing the cretins, not me. Why would you think different?

[timo]

176. if the south is so bad

why do all the old unhappy yankees move there when they retire?

[suzie]

177. Old Unhappy Republican Yankees

There are conservative areas of my county, which is well within the Bible Belt, where the people will vote for a Democrat.

And then there are the retirees and others who've moved down from the North and will never, ever, ever vote for anyone who is not a Republican that make up the part of the county that votes overhwhelmingly Republican. They won't even vote for a moderate Republican running as an Independent--even when he's the best candidate.

So please, tell us all about the "conservative South". You've shipped a bunch of your conservatives down to us.

[timo]

178. huh?

i dont get it? are you saying I am conservative? I was refering to the hordes of near dead who populate the local wrinkle farms here from up north, everybody bashes the south but the yankees sure do seem to like to move here so it must not be allllll that bad!!!

[suzie]

192. Sorry, I was agreeing with you about northerners moving South, and

adding that many of them are conservative. I misplaced a "you". My bad.

[QC]

187. Yeah, most of the carpetbaggers around here are freepers.

Picture it: teabaggers with bad manners and chainsaw voices.

Joy.

[Jennicut]

183. They are too wimpy to put up with the snow.

I live in more of a northern town in Connecticut. Some people simply detest plowing, shoveling the snow year after year.
I like it. I like the snow...I take my kids sledding. My birthday is right before Christmas and I celebrate every year by going sledding. I love snowy winters here...doesn't feel like Christmas when its mild weather and above 35 degrees.
My Mom's neighbors live half the time in Florida and half the year in CT. I think they are going to live in Florida permanently soon.

[keroro gunsou]

180. well i for one

would like a cookie please. :evilgrin:

other than that, your efforts are appreciated. the problem with painting with a big brush is the inevitable splatter.

[Swamp Rat]

185. Yeah, when we stop electing right wing fuckhead racists to represent us.

THEN AND ONLY THEN, we will get a break from the rich, sociopathic minority who oppresses us all.

[JVS]

189. +1