Why is there all the continued hate for rich, white guys who were falsely accused?

[Mike Daniels]

I don't get it and I'd like someone to explain it to me.

Tawana Brawley proved that people lie about being raped by powerful rich white men. Why are some posters still adamant that the "rich, white boys" did it when all evidence shows the woman is a liar and nothing supports her story?

Also, if you're going to claim that the victim and witnesses were bought off I want to see you provide a link proving it.

[jody]

1. Wikipedia has an interesting summary.

Hatred is an emotion of intense revulsion, distaste, enmity, or antipathy for a person, thing, or phenomenon, generally attributed to a desire to avoid, restrict, remove, or destroy the hated object. Hatred is also among the most common emotions that humans experience. It can be based on fear of an object or past negative consequences of dealing with that object. Hatred is often described as the opposite of love or friendship; others, such as Elie Wiesel, consider the opposite of love to be indifference. People may feel conflicting and complicated emotions or thoughts involving hate, as in a love-hate relationship.

Often the verb "to hate" is used casually to describe things one merely dislikes, such as a particular style of architecture, a certain climate, one's job, some particular food, or people who claim to hate something when they in fact merely dislike it.

"Hatred" is also used to describe feelings of prejudice, bigotry or condemnation (see shunning) against a person, or a group of people, such as racism, and intense religious or political prejudice. The term hate crime is used to designate crimes committed out of hatred in this sense.

According to evolutionary psychologists, hate is a rational reaction to people whose interests consistently conflict with one's own. Hate is an emotion, hence it serves the protective mode of a person. People whose behavior threatens one's own survival interests are to be hated, while people whose behavior enhances one's survival prospects are to be liked or even loved (as in the case of offspring and other genetic kin).

The passions of hate arise from several features of our thinking process. These include wanting to assign blame to others for our misfortune, protecting our self-esteem, a desire to strengthen our community, alleviating our fears (by destroying the evil others), and several types of errors in reasoning, including cognitive bias. The ability to quickly separate friend from foe is essential to self-defense and safety and provides the origins of hate.

[annabanana]

2. I don't hate the ones that were falsley accused. .

I hate the ones that were rightly accused and got golden parachutes and comfy berths in RW think tanks...

Where are there posts that are still insisting that the boys did it and the victims and witnesses were bought off? Do you have some links?

[Sadie4629]

6. You're kidding, right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x657461#657531

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x657461#657649

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x657461#657674

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x657461#657921

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x657461#657778

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x657461#657738

[theoldman]

3. I think the fact that it was a wild party left the perception

that no one was totally innocent. We look at a persons face and form an opinion. That is why so many innocent people go to prison for murder. They look as if they were the type of person who would commit the crime. It's all in perception.

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. Gee Mike, you seem great at making accusations

but you seem deficient in the example department. Where are the multitude of posts that have so irked you? Could you post a few so we can get an idea as to what you are so upset about?

[Sadie4629]

7. Here are a few links

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Laughing Mirror]

20. Do you have any real links? None of those works.

Thanks.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

29. Well their statement "here are a few links", strictly speaking, is true... LOL

[Sadie4629]

45. Ooops!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x657461

All the links I posted were within this one thread, but I have seen others.

Sorry about that!

[youngdem]

5. One of DU's weak spots is that SOME members are openly hostile to and jealous of monetary success

There are SOME members on here who spew vitriol and suspicious comments at ANYONE who makes more than the median income, calling them crooks, pigs, etc., and view anyone who has achieved monetary success as a sort of criminal in and of themselves, regardless of the merit of what earned them the money.

There is simply a lot of jealousy sometimes by SOME DU'ers. It is one of the uglier sides of DU.

[hotdoggie]

13. You are exactly right. N/T

[bryant69]

17. You'[ve only been here for 2 posts and you got DU figured out?

Gosh you're smart. Welcome to DU.

Bryant

[MH1]

39. Yes, youngdem is exactly right.

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[devilgrrl]

35. Bollocks.

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

38. That's far too flip and superficial for my taste.

In my view, it's rational and ethical to eschew those who've exploited the immorality and injustice in our economic system to enrich themselves upon the backs of others. There is much that, while not technically unlawful, is surely not just and fair. Absolutely nobody can ever convince me that an economic system that permits Bill Gates to have a net personal worth greater than that of the total net worth of 60% of the households in this entire nation is a fair or just system. That system is broken and there's no possible apologetic for it other than an obscenely predatory viewpoint.

Likewise, the "sperm lottery" that affords a guaranteed lifetime of privilege and power to those born within a family possessed of generational wealth, accumulated over the decades or centuries through the exploitation of the labor of others under a legal fiction of 'ownership' and 'inheritance' is, imho, the core of the corruption of a monarchical system. The existence of "good kings" cannot ameliorate the fundamental evil of monarchical systems and the existence of "philanthropism" cannot ameliorate the fundamental evil of unearned and inherited privilege. These 'systems' are abominations against justice and equity.

I have no issue whatsoever with those whose income reflects their own labors and skills. None.

Furthermore, I can hate the sin and not the sinner -- and hate the system and not the beneficiaries who otherwise live ethically and appreciative of their abundance. However, when they perpetuate such a system and fight against changes that would make it more equitable and just - then they are an enemy, by their own choice.

[Zhade]

75. Fantastic post!

An astute analysis.

[TahitiNut]

76. Thank you!

[jesus_of_suburbia]

64. I agree with this.............

However, I must say that many rich people forget to care about those less fortunate.


Just as many poor people forget to care about blacks (when they are white) or gays (when they are straight) or women (when they are men).


It's just a fact of life that many people lack empathy (This causes most problems in the world). I find there are more Democrats who are empathetic than Republicans. That is why I am a Democrat.


EMPATHY - the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.


I would be proud if someone asked me when I die, "What are you most proud of?" If I could answer, "I was empathetic towards my sisters, brothers, and all living creatures on this Earth."


Of course I fall short, but I try to learn everyday!

[Raine]

73. True

I've seen it here myself, there is a lot of stereotyping of all kinds that goes on around here and it's not pretty.

[marions ghost]

83. And why do you suppose that is?

Could it be that this is the type of person who will be controlling the country and doing a very bad job of it in the future? We all know that most people who are obscenely rich have not earned it and seek only to exploit. The diversion of taxpayer funds into their pockets by various means (perpetual "war" being one of the more insidious ways) --is enough to make any thinking person furious. And where do these sick and selfish corporate and political leaders come from?

You really have to look at the big picture.

[Sadie4629]

8. I asked a couple of different people yesterday

what it would take at this point, for them to believe in the innocence of the young men accused. Never got an answer. I think that for some people the accusation itself is proof of guilt. That's a pretty scary scenario, since a false accusation can happen to anyone.

[nevergiveup]

9. Rich white kids

are people too. I was very impressed with the one young man who when speaking made reference to the fact that he couldn't possibly imagine how terrible it would have been to be in their positions and not have the resources to defend themselves. I realize the right-wing uses this example as a rant but the reality is that these young man were likely falsely accused but will nevertheless live with the stigma for the rest of their lives. This is never a good thing as every life is equally important.

[Dorian Gray]

10. I noticed that too, nevergiveup...

and it made me hopeful that maybe this horrible experience might open their eyes to do some good for those who can not afford the protection that they were provided. I'm looking for a silver lining in this awfully unjust story!

[Captain Hilts]

11. Yes, I also was impressed. These guys are owed apologies by Sharpton, etc. nt

[Laughing Mirror]

19. What exactly did Sharpton say about them?

I must have missed something.

[MH1]

48. Supposedly, he called them "rapists"

I don't have the link, but that's the story. If it's true, or he said something like that (and I've heard it enough, and it is Sharpton, so I tend to believe it) then I think he does owe them an apology.

[Laughing Mirror]

54. I need something more substantial than hearsay

So "supposedly" won't work, sorry.

[MH1]

65. Well you asked

I wasn't the person who originally posted it, but this is what I believe they were talking about.

I have so little respect for Sharpton anyway, I don't need to spend time digging up the link.

[Laughing Mirror]

78. You'll go along with the insults and the slander of a great Democrat

While you don't have anything of substance to back up what your position. Your lack of respect for Sharpton is your own personal emotional reaction, and that's fine. Thanks for responding with nothing.

[Alexander]

80. A great Democrat? What about Tawana Brawley?

Better than Bush, yes. But "great"?

I think not.

[Laughing Mirror]

81. I don't know if Tawana Brawley is a great Democrat and you don't either

Did you happen to catch any of the debates of the Democratic presidential candidates in 2004? Yes, Sharpton is a great Democrat, for those of us who are real Democrats. It doesn't matter whether that includes you or not.

[Alexander]

84. Tawana Brawley was another false rape accuser. Sharpton joined in the accusations.

It was later shown she was lying, and she and her mother fled the state for refusing to testify in front of a grand jury.

Sharpton not only accused people of raping her, he even accused a state prosecutor of being involved. Once it came out Brawley was lying, Sharpton never apologized. He was later sued for making defamatory statements and had to pay $300K in damages.

Yes, I saw him during the 2004 debates. But anyone with more than a 5-year memory remembers that Sharpton is not the kind of guy we'd want to nominate for president, and for precisely these reasons.

[Laughing Mirror]

88. Why would an activist apologize for defending somebody almost everybody believed at the time?

When you are sued and are found guilty on several counts of defamation and receive punishment for it, you should still be eligible for punishment then? Double indemnity. Just how much more punishment is appropriate, in your opinion, for that crime?

"Not the kind of guy we'd want to nominate for president." Is Sharpton in the running again?

[MH1]

87. Um, no.

My lack of respect for Sharpton has come from a number of years of watching him. He's too quick to raise divisions and accuse, and too slow to try to heal those divisions, and has he ever apologized?

Tawana Brawley is only one incident. I've heard his words on a number of occasions where it didn't set well with me that someone who calls himself "Reverend" would be so divisive. That's not the Christianity I was taught.

But, I didn't keep a diary or list of links. So I can't help you there. If you want to go on believing he is a "great Democrat" without bothering to research for yourself his actions in the Duke case, then that's no bother to me. My point was only that the Duke accusation fits so well with my past experience of him, I don't feel compelled to research it. If that bothers you, then sorry. Maybe you could show me something explaining how he has been misrepresented over the years, including this Duke case?

[Laughing Mirror]

89. The way it works on DU is that the one making the accusations is the one who furnishes the proof

If you don't have any proof, it's then you that should apologize for slandering a Great Democrat with the kind of talk and hearsay generated and disseminated on racist right-wing forums.

[bluerum]

12. Rich white guys don't need societies help. Poor destitute people do. eom

edit sp.

[Sadie4629]

14. Who said anything about needing "societies (sic) help?"

They deserve justice, the same as anyone else. And they are owed an apology, not by society, but by Crystal Gail Mangum, by Nifong, by Brodhead, and by the eighty eight professors who weren't willing to afford them the concept of innocent til proven guilty.

[bluerum]

18. Justice. How just is rich white guys being able to hire poor black women

as playthings for a frat party.

No-one owes them anything. They walked into this with open and willing eyes.

[Sadie4629]

23. "Open and willing eyes"

Do you suppose they expected to be accused of gang rape, sodomy, kidnapping, false imprisonment, and all the other crap that Nifong threw at them. I don't.

Working as a stripper is perfectly legal, and her choice. Hiring her as a stripper is also legal, and that was their choice. Justice has nothing to do with how she ended up at that party in the first place.

[bluerum]

25. If they did not expect it, they should have. They weren't running some

some swanky executive strip club. This was a frat house. She was hired to be their plaything. They probably went too far and she got pissed. It may have been legal but it is certainly not just for rich white kids to demean and abuse poor black women just because she needs to make a living they can get away with it.

Go ahead, talk to me about justice some more.

[Sadie4629]

28. They should have expected it?

Think it's that common for strippers to accuse the guys that hire them of rape? I doubt it, because if it happened often, there wouldn't be much of a market for strippers!

Got any evidence that "they went too far?" Other than her word, I mean. Did you know that her latest story is that she was raped in mid-air? Delusions like that make it hard to believe anything she said.

Stripping IS demeaning for any woman, white or black. But it is a way to make some good money. Being demeaned is part of the package, and I'll bet it wasn't the first time she was abused and/or demeaned.

As for justice--as long as anyone thinks these guys did anything illegal, justice has not been served. JMHO.

[bluerum]

40. Well - they are the smart college educated half of this equation. The

ones with money, and presumably the smarts to realize that when you demean someone that you run a risk of pissing them off. Hiring her to strip does not carry with it the right to demean.

And why should I believe their story over hers no matter how fantastic? If she is so deranged, why are they hiring her to "perform" at their little frat party? Where is their "upper class" sense of values. Where is their common sense?

Clearly she needs some help. Is she getting it? Can she afford to get help? Does anyone give a rats ass about her? No - it's the poor rich white boys who paid to fuck her that we are worried about.

[Sadie4629]

42. They're innocent. She (and Nifong) are guilty.

"Well - they are the smart college educated half of this equation. The
ones with money, and presumably the smarts to realize that when you demean someone that you run a risk of pissing them off. Hiring her to strip does not carry with it the right to demean."

I would argue that since it is demeaning to take your clothes off for money, the right to demean IS inherent in that transaction. But, what gives her the right to falsely accuse innocent people of the horrible crime of rape?

"And why should I believe their story over hers no matter how fantastic? If she is so deranged, why are they hiring her to "perform" at their little frat party? Where is their "upper class" sense of values. Where is their common sense?"

Um, evidence? Specifically, there was NO evidence of rape, but a whole lot of evidence that she lied. No DNA, time-stamped photos (corroborated by watches showing the same time in the pix,) time-stamped ATM video showing that one of the guys couldn't have been there, etc. And anyway it isn't her "story," but "stories," since she gave dozens of different ones.

Further, I don't think there is such a thing as an "upper class sense of values." Classlessness transcends class. So does common sense.

"Clearly she needs some help. Is she getting it? Can she afford to get help? Does anyone give a rats ass about her? No - it's the poor rich white boys who paid to fuck her that we are worried about."

Agree with you on this--she needs help. Maybe Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton can come up with some money to get her the help she needs. On second thought, nah, I doubt it. Now that she is of no use to them, they'll forget all about her.

And yes, anyone who actually cares about justice worries about what can happen when a politically motivated prosecutor is willing to throw away the lives and futures of innocent people, just for a few votes. Doesn't that bother you?

[bluerum]

62. I am not accusing. The attorney accused. The woman accused.

The attorney was an opportunist, but so were these kids in taking advantage of woman who was economically disadvantaged and apparently emotionally disadvantaged. IMO, "classlessness" transcended class on all sides in this case.

And no, stripping does not carry with it the right to demean. Just because I pay for a sex workers services does not give me the right demean. When I buy a hamburger at a fast food joint, I do not get the right man-handle, trash talk or demean the cashier.

The woman has been exploited by everyone from day one. But I still see these kids as walking into a meat grinder on this one. Chalk it up as an educational experience. That is what they are in school for right? In 5 years they will be pulling down a hundred grand a year and thinking back on this as a bump in the road. Where will the woman be?

What bothers me? What bothers me is economic in-justice that puts emotionally disturbed women on the street to pleasure frat boys.

[Sadie4629]

67. Economically disadvantaged and apparently emotionally disadvantage

How were they supposed to know she was um, mentally unbalanced? (From what I've read, she is most likely schizophrenic.) I also don't think they specifically requested an economically disadvantaged stripper, either. They were college kids being college kids. Hiring a stripper, just like at thousands of bachelor parties.

Maybe in five years this will be remembered as just a "bump in the road." However, it COULD have been the event that ended their lives.

[Balbus]

71. They should've expected it? Why? Because the person they hired was black?

And that's what black people do? Make up false accusations to try to send rich white kids to jail? Interesting point you have there...

[Mike Daniels]

61. Strippers basically hire themselves out to whoever is willing to pay the fee

You honestly think that this stripper hasn't performed for black men from time to time?

[bluerum]

66. And I provide my professional services when someone pays me. I do

not permit demeaning insulting behavior from my clients. I have many economic advantages that this woman apparently did not have.

This is my beef:

Our society permits economic conditions that force women to become "underground" sex workers. They are essentially legalized sex slaves. These are not women who perform in clubs under the protection of a small army of bouncers. They have no health insurance. They may be emotionally disadvantaged, and most certainly are economically disadvantaged. Now, along comes some frat boys who need a plaything for a party.

These kids picked the wrong woman on the wrong night. Should they be punished for that? It is not for me to judge that. But they surely walked into a situation that was less than favorable for them, and for the woman involved. Things that had a high potential for going wrong went wrong. If you play with fire, you better expect to get burned from time to time no matter how much money you have or what color you are.

[MedleyMisty]

15. I don't hate them

I'm just troubled because it seems that some people are waving it around as evidence that most women lie about rape and that most rape accusations are false. They might not come right out and say it, but when they go overboard and fete the guys as some kind of heroes I do wonder. Especially when they've never given a rape victim that much sympathy and support.

[etherealtruth]

21. That IS the troubling part ....

I don't hate rich white guys ... I was raised by a "rich" white guy ... I was married to a rich caucasian (not white, but caucasian) guy ... the problem here is that this incident has a large potential to be trotted out when a woman accuses a man of rape in an effort to challenge the credibility of the victim.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. Thank you.

That's what I was trying to argue on another thread and I got piled on for it.

[TahitiNut]

27. I don't think it's arguable that wealth can buy justice -- or even injustice.

Clearly, none of those exonerated in the Innocence Project are "rich, white guys."

At the same time, there is absolutely no 'solution' that I can imagine that would include subjecting more people to the injustice of conviction and imprisonment based on false claims. We must always keep our eyes on the real solutions - real improvments to our society and nation.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beelzebud]

22. Why is that safe to assume? There are thousands of rich white guys who aren't assholes...

[anitar1]

82. Something that puzzles me about this term"rich white guys"

Is how do we know that these young men are rich ? What is rich? Has anyone information as to their bank accounts, or of their parents financial worth? Pics of their homes and cars ? Perhaps the parents are upper middle class ? Are all young people who attend college considered rich ? And is justice to be denied young people if they are rich ? I know someone who actually thinks 100,000 dollars means one is rich. How sad and ignorant. I hope these young men are able to get on with their lives and that Nifong loses his law license.

[Sadie4629]

24. Do you include--

--Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and John Edwards in your stereotype?

[donco6]

30. Why is this type of statement tolerable?

I find it . . . not so much.

[MH1]

36. It isn't, to me.

But it sure does make a good "exhibit A."

[donco6]

43. It must be OK with the mods.

I've alerted twice.

So is this DUs official stand now. Rich white guys are assholes. Great. I'll send that off to Tim Gill.

[MH1]

47. It's deleted now.

I actually didn't alert on it, because it was so revelatory about the poster.

But I don't fault anyone who did.

[MH1]

32. Wow, I sure hope

you forgot the sarcasm tag.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. Ignorance.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Probably Because Some People Are Just Quite Simply Ignorant Bigots.

Not sure what other reason there can be really.

[MH1]

34. Just look at the post above yours.

Unless of course a sarcasm tag was left out, or assumed to be too obvious to need it. (the latter, sadly, cannot be taken for granted at DU. should have used the tag.)

[ComerPerro]

37. Here's a better question: Why do people like you insist on fawning all over these guys?

A lot of DUers are treating these two like they are heroic. Its pathetic.

[Sadie4629]

44. Is it "fawning"--

--to say that they've been declared "innocent," and that people shouldn't be still looking for evidence of their guilt, or assuming that they must have done something criminal, or that they paid off witnesses?

[ComerPerro]

51. it is when you do it for several days without end. Why spend so much time

carrying a torch for these guys when they and their families were obviously able to take care of themselves.

[Sadie4629]

53. It's not that simple

Just because they have $$ and could hire expensive lawyers, doesn't mean they wouldn't have been convicted, had they gone to trial. I'm not sure the $$ had anything to do with the AG's declaration of their innocence, anyway.

At the heart of it, this is an example of a politically-motivated prosecutor who didn't care who he trampled in his desire to get votes. He played the race card and the class card, and it should bother everyone that someone who is entrusted with carrying out justice would do this.

[ComerPerro]

55. Well, consider the fact that someone with limited financial means

wouldn't have had a trial that lasted nearly this long, and probably would have been convicted within a few months.

[B2G]

58. There was never a trial

It amazes me how much classism I've seen exhibited here in the past few days. Someone recently tried to tell me that reverse discrimination does not exist. I think I'll copy and paste afew of these threads for him.

[Sadie4629]

59. Going out on a limb here

In this particular case, someone with limited financial means would never have been charged. The object of the charge was to rile class- and racial-tensions. It might have worked, if those kids hadn't had PLENTY of evidence of their innocence.

[B2G]

60. And money

From civil suits. She was gonna take these 3 "rich white kids" to the cleaners. Count on it.

[Balbus]

72. I think they're heroic...

The nation as a whole came down on these kids - it was 3 against 300 million. And they prevailed. Quite heroic.

[ncabot22]

41. Very simple

Bigots have preconceived notions. In this case, several people believed them to be guilty simply because of their skin colour and financial status. When it turned out that the Duke guys were innocent, the bigots simply couldn't get past the fact that they were wrong. So, rather than admitting they were wrong, they continue on in their delusions as it justifies their bigotry.

This case, in a small way, is similar to the Susan Smith case. They wanted the Duke Lacrosse team to be the boogeyman in the closet, much like some South Carolinians wanted a black man to be the monster that kidnapped two little kids. The monster they could point their bigoted, bony fingers at and say "see, they are horrible people". When it turned out that the Dukies were innocent, they didn't want to admit that someone from a poverty-stricken, racially oppressed background would lie.

In the end, to quote Depeche Mode, people are people. Some are good, some aren't. Some lie, some don't. Some are born into a wealthy background and use their status to escape justice, some don't. Some are born into poverty and commit crimes to survive, most don't.

[Selatius]

46. Wow, there's quite a bit of bigotry and broad brush strokes going around here.

There is a lot of assholes to go around regardless of financial status. The fact that one is rich does not necessarily mean he is an asshole.

[ecstatic]

49. Why the continued silence for poor, black guys who were falsely accused? nt

[B2G]

52. There's not

In fact, Reade Seligman specifically addressed this very issue in his press conference.

For those of you interested in reading an indepth anaylsis about the case, the News & Observers is running a 5 part series that started yesterday. Here's a link to the first report:

http://www.newsobserver.com/100/story/564100.html

[RandomKoolzip]

50. My hate for rich, white guys stretches back to childhood.

I was a POOR white kid who grew up in a rich white town, and my father was an unabashed communist and an avid reader/ranter. He passed that shit down to me. It also didn't help that I continually felt looked down on because of my working-class background, my thrift-store clothes, and my family's inablility to buy me the stuff I wanted - stuff my peers seemed to just have lying around their enormous houses. Needless to say, I see levelling the economic playing field as part and parcel of the liberal worldview, even if we've been indoctrinated by umpteen years of Reaganism to see the rich as people who've "earned" their success. In many cases that's true; but in my first-hand experience, rich white guys were almost always mean, bullying pricks whose sense of entitlement was both flaunted and received.

It's a prejudice I'm trying to get over, but let me just say that finding sympathy or even simple goodwill towards most rich white males is difficult for me.

In any event, the Duke players were inncoent. Whoopty shit. I really wish this case could have opened up a space for a dialogue about economic and racial disparity in America, but too many pundits and commentators, IMO, seem to examine this case without looking at its context. And let's be realistic here - these Duke kids can buy back the "honor" they think they've lost, but those strippers are still going to have to sell their bodies and degrade themselves to eat for the rest of their lives.

[Sadie4629]

56. At least you're able to admit you have a problem.

How can these young guys "buy back" their honor?? This is going to follow them for the rest of their lives. Some will always think that where there's smoke, there's fire. Some will always think that SOMETHING must have happened. Some will always think they bought off witnesses.

As for the strippers, being a stripper is a choice. There are lots of people who are not born to wealth and privilege who don't strip for a living. Crystal Gail Mangum was a college student. Obviously, she was trying to do something other than strip. Unfortunately, I think her emotional problems would probably have prevented her from accomplishing much. But that's a completely different issue. Maybe the other stripper will complete her degree and become an engineer, or something.

Anyway, the "context" of this case, was that Nifong saw an opportunity to rile racial tensions in order to gain the Black vote in his election. That's all there was to it.

[qdemn7]

69. Still??

but those strippers are still going to have to sell their bodies and degrade themselves to eat for the rest of their lives.

Why is someone putting a gun to their heads to MAKE them strip? No, then it's none of your, nor any else's business. You will NEVER eradicate "sin" based pleasure activities because there is an incessant human demand for them. Stripping is simply a slightly different form of prostitution, and THAT is as old as mankind. Prohibition was an utter failure. The War on Drugs has been a miserable failure. Gun bans don't work. People keep smoking despite all the "education". But the self-appointed world savers keep right on trying to "save" people from themselves when it's apparent to anyone with sense they don't want to be "saved".

Fact is there's lots of money to be made from stripping. Especially for women who don't have the education, skills or motivation to do otherwise. Maybe if kids took the opportunity while in public school to actually be willing to learn something and get an education, instead of only being interested in sports, popularity or in WTF-ever is latest consumerist craze, then they MIGHT not have to be stripping, hooking or flipping burgers.

If Americas weren't so puritanical about the human female body (and yes I include feminists in that description), men would be able to get an eyeful at the nearest beach or public swimming pool. Or by turning on broadcast TV. America wouldn't be the largest producer and consumer of sexually oriented media in the world. Hugh Hefner built an empire simply on the basis of men being able to look at women's bare breasts. What does THAT say about America?

[MH1]

70. "levelling the economic playing field" does not require hateful stereotypes

and in fact, will be hindered by them.

I grew up poor too, but now I have a good salary and know some rich people.

I know some assholes too, but so far I haven't been able to determine a significant correlation between the two - some of the biggest assholes I know don't make much money. (gee, there may be some causation there, come to think of it.)

In any case, we don't get to choose the family we're born into, or how much money that family makes, or the attitudes we are surrounded with as children. That is true for EVERYONE - not just those who are disadvantaged by being financially poor.

[MadBadger]

57. Is there an underlying hatred

for anybody white and rich? Do some of you actually hate white and rich people? Cuz I'm getting that opinion.

[EFerrari]

63. You don't get that there is a power inbalance in this country?

When little old ladies are mugged, people are happy to find the mugger.

When little old ladies fake being mugged, you are surprised that people move to support them first?

What color is the sky in your world, Mike?

[Mike Daniels]

85. It's blue

Just what is your point? I don't know of many people who faked getting mugged.

[Odin2005]

68. Because people go by thier blinkered assumptions and biases rather then reality.

Apparently well off college kids don't deserve due process according to some DUers just because they are well off. ALL rich white people are evil don't ya know? :eyes:

Oh, and this whole debacle pretty much destroyed the respect I had towards Al Sharpton.

[qdemn7]

74. Al Sharpton

Oh, and this whole debacle pretty much destroyed the respect I had towards Al Sharpton.

Whenever I think Al Sharpton has "reformed", he goes and does something like this. He's the living embodiment of the scorpion, from the fable of the frog and the scorpion.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evoman]

79. Maybe its because white, rich people are the ONLY ones who do get justice?

I know that if it was someone like me who had been accused....poor, Latino, unconnected, I'd be rotting in a jail cell right now. Look, I have yet to weigh in on this whole Duke thing. I don't hate white people (I'm dating one), I don't hate rich people, and I am glad that innocent people were not put in jail.

But honestly, I'm sick and tired of people talking about this shit. I'm tired of the people who think that these men should be in jail, even though they have been found innocent. I'm also tired of the people who act so fucking shocked that other people resent white priviledge.

I'll be straight...I resent it. I PRETTY FUCKING resent it. Because I do think that these kids are priviledged little assholes. Little assholes who think they own the world and I fucking resent that they are right.

[Lil Missy]

86. I'll save my outrage for the more frequent occurance of

true rape victims being trashed by defense lawyers and the media, and the rapists getting off scott free. That happens FAR, FAR, FAR more often. And I don't see NEARLY this amount of outrage over that.

[seabeyond]

90. i am not rich, i am sending my boys to college. my oldest is in duke program

for elementary and middle school kids and that is where he is wanting to go to college. if a white kid goes to college, does that make him a rich white boy?