How Is Alan Grayson Wrong?

[KingOfLostSouls]

the GOP's only plans are to cut taxes and go after trial lawyers, none of which give people health care.



how is alan grayson wrong?

the answer?

HE'S NOT


republicans have admitted that doing nothing and making sure taxes don't go up are more of a priority than keeping americans from dying

they admit they want american's to die.


how is alan grayson wrong?

[Barack_America]

1. He's not wrong, they'll just do anything to avoid the point he made.

They'll complain about his use of the word "holocaust", but say nothing about the tea baggers running around with pictures of our President made to look like Hitler, Limbaugh likening Obama's health care logo to the Nazis, etc.

They'll complain about his saying Republicans want people to "die quickly", but say nothing about the scores of Republicans who have referred to "death panels", "killing Grandma", etc.

The fact that they are desperate to ignore his point tells you not how wrong he is, but how RIGHT he is.

[Recursion]

2. Because they don't *want* Americans to "die quickly"

It's the mirror image of the "death panels" claim. They don't *want* Americans to "die quickly" anymore than we *want* to "kill grandma". We disagree with them about the outcomes that would happen (more to the point, they are wrong), but they don't want Americans to die off.

[Buzz Clik]

5. +1

[Ian David]

8. Yes, they do. Republicans win when fewer people vote. n/t

[Ineeda]

10. So what are they doing to prevent 45,000 American deaths a year?

If repugs didn't want what Grayson claims, they'd DO something about it. Like vote 'aye' on meaningful health care reform with (at least) a public option.

[Recursion]

15. Do you really not get it? They think those deaths are because of regulations

They sincerely think that all those people are uninsured or go without coverage because the market is distorted by government influence.

Lying about people's motivation doesn't make anything better.

[EOTE]

41. You give them way too much credit.

They may say that's what they believe, but in reality they're not that stupid. They're beholden to their corporate masters and would rather people die than to not do their bidding. They may not actually wish for people to die, but they'd rather people die than the alternative.

[Barack_America]

12. I believe his point was that, if you get sick, the Republican plan is for you to "die quickly".

Which is absolutely correct.

Die quickly before you can amass the medical debt that will send your family into bankruptcy.

How else could one summarize the Republican health care plan? They were in power for how many years? And what have they given us? A nation of people who pray that they don't get sick, and if they do, that they die quickly.

[Recursion]

16. Their plan is for you to have a savings you can use

and, failing that, for you to fall back on charity. In any case, they want you to be presented with a transparent pricing system before choosing your medical provider.

[niceypoo]

37. Or die quickly to save the insurance company from paying for longterm treatment

[Recursion]

39. Then again, I don't really want him to apologize

We all need thicker skins nowadays.

[Tsar_Bomba]

31. Conservatives do want people to die when people

become unable to provide corporations a profit. That's what it boils down to. This is the save reason they use abortion to score political points, it costs them nothing to be anti-choice.

[niceypoo]

36. They want what the Health Insurers want...

...because they are paid to want it.

And the health insurers want people who are very sick to just die off because they don't make profits on longterm care.

[LeftishBrit]

40. They may not *want* people to die quickly.

They just think that getting the help needed so that you *don't* die quickly (or slowly and painfully, which is even worse) is a privilege and not a right. Which comes to pretty much the same thing.

As Arthur Hugh Clough wrote in 'The Latest Decalogue', satirizing Victorian English values of the mid-19th century:

'Thou shalt not kill, but need not strive
Officiously to keep alive.'

[RagAss]

43. Didn't you learn anything at all from Katrina ?????????????????

[dsomuah]

3. Support this man.

I just donated a small amount of money to this man to encourage him to continue to speak out about republicans apathy on healthcare. I urge you guys to do the same. Not only is he right? We need more people to start speaking like he is speaking.

[chimpymustgo]

6. Do you have a link for donating (maybe even start a separate thread).

[Ian David]

9. Donate to Alan Grayson

http://www.actblue.com/page/grayson

[CTyankee]

4. He should not have used the term "holocaust." Everything else he said was spot on.

"Holocaust" is a loaded word. My Jewish husband, son in law, and friends argue that using the term in any other context than the Holocaust of WW2 dilutes the suffering of the Jews and others who died in the camps.

While I am not Jewish, I have 3 grandchildren who are. I have come to realize the enormity of what happened in the Holocaust in a way I never could before.

There are better ways to say what Grayson meant to say. His statement otherwise was true, he is right, and this is a very serious matter. It was powerful enough on its own and he is only going to annoy his Jewish constituency who probably otherwise support health care reform. And that's sad...

[chimpymustgo]

7. Let's not allow the language to be hi-jacked. You know the definition of the word.

Grayson is correct.

[CTyankee]

13. Using the term "hijacking the language" is disrespectful to Jews.

We should be solemnly understanding of what they are trying to tell us. They are not telling us that because they are cunning and evil, but because they are in emotional pain over the Holocaust. I have now come the closest to sharing that emotional pain when I contemplate what COULD have happened to my grandchildren. I have that connection now. I was like you before. Now I find it incredibly insensitive to use the term in ANY other way than with the real Holocaust of World War II. I urge you to think on this harder...

[chimpymustgo]

25. I will respect that "hi-jacking the language" may be insensitive. But I think the word holocaust

can still be applied as Rep. Goldman did. Just as slavery has a specific meaning, and can be applied to more than the horrific situation imposed upon African Americans in the the USA.

[CTyankee]

27. Of course, it "can" be applied in that context. The question is "should" it be?

For all the reasons heretofore mentioned, but mainly that it can be a distraction from his argument.

BTW, I think his name is Grayson, not Goldman...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. I'm a Jew and Grayson is a Jew and I find no disrepect at all. This is a holocaust!

45,000 people die a year from lack of health care. Now take that exponentially to all of their loved ones and friends and what these deaths have done to them.

We Jews don't own the copyright on the word. Go to the dictionary.

[tekisui]

11. I think we must also be careful not to sanctify the word.

Grayson is doing what needs to be done. He is getting through the M$M din to get coverage. It requires the attention worthy soundbite. He is doing it right.

[CTyankee]

17. If any term deserves to be "sanctified" it is Holocaust.

Grayson had a whole lexicon at his disposal and should have used it. He, and you, need to be more respectful and sensitive to Jews and those, like me, who are not Jewish but have reverence for the memory of those who perished in the Holocaust. Once you start making the word less powerful, you demean the Jews' suffering and if you don't realize that, you need to.

[tekisui]

18. I used to hold that view.

Then, a Jewish man, who I respect explained to me that there is a danger to sanctify the term. A holocaust is not necessarily The Holocaust. The definition of holocaust(with a lower case h) is: Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life.

The Holocaust(with a capital H) is specific to the atrocities that happened to millions of Jews in WWII.

[CTyankee]

21. I think the problem is that when you say the word it now means something other

than the historical meaning before The Holocaust. It flares in the mind and people are distracted from what the Congressman was saying. In time, this may not be the case but I am wary of watering it down at this point...

Health care reform is TOO important to have any distraction IMO.

[2Design]

14. he is jewish - and it is a holocaust of killing people by denying claims or insurance n/t

[CTyankee]

19. I don't care if he is Jewish...it is still a dilution of the meaning of the word.

I'm sure he's heard this from more than one of his Jewish constituents.

Don't you see what a distraction it is for him to use a term that some people, who might be totally in line with what he is trying to say, will object to? He could JUST AS WELL used other words and made his point. His point was EXCELLENT and needs to be said over and over again. I loved the rest of his statement because it was so bold.

We need all the help we can get in the health care reform effort. Why drag another subject into the discussion when so many other terms could be just as effective but without the distraction?

[ashling]

24. Grayson was right

Keith and Rachel made a big deal out of the fact that even though Grayson's remarks in general were appropriate, that he should not have used the word holocaust. Rachel even asked him three times to, basically, apologize for that word use.

I have no problem with it. And I think that Rachel, who I admire beyond words, was out of line in her line of questioning on that point.


hol⋅o⋅caust
  /ˈhɒləˌkɔst, ˈhoʊlə-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation

–noun
1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, esp. by fire.
2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering.
3. (usually initial capital letter) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II (usually prec. by the).
4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.

Origin:
1200–50; ME < LL holocaustum (Vulgate) < Gk holókauston (Septuagint), neut. of holókaustos burnt whole. See holo-, caustic
Text



The word does not just apply to Hitler's "Final Solution." It was not coined for that purpose.

It does, however, impart the concept of an intentional destruction.

He made the point rather well that by knowing that this is happening and doing nothing about it, we are complicit. By specifically trying to delay or halt attempts to fix this problems, Republicans are actually ratifying it.

That is, in every sense, a holocaust.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6668635&mesg_id=6668635

[JerseygirlCT]

26. I agree

that's a unique and uniquely loaded word. Better not to have gone there.

[csziggy]

30. Alan Grayson is also Jewish and I suspect he knew exactly what he was saying

And used the loaded word "holocaust" deliberately.

Tags: Jewish - Very Liberal - Anti Alaska/Offshore Oil Drilling - Anti-Bush Tax Cuts (Pro-Tax Cut Rollback) - Anti-Social Security Privatization - Government Reform - Health Care Reform - Jobs/Industrial Growth - Pro Embryonic Stem Cell Research - Pro Environment - Pro-Choice - Pro-Gay Marriage - Pro-Gun control - Pro-Labor - Divorced - Married - Judaism - Straight
http://www.ourcampaigns.com/CandidateDetail.html?CandidateID=115255

This is not a stupid man - he knows exactly what he is doing and saying and probably is loading his speeches for maximum impact. read his Bio from his website - he has an impressive resume: http://www.graysonforcongress.com/page.asp?PageId=2

[old mark]

20. He is absolutely correct - the GOP just hates to be told the truth.

They don't ever use it, don't like it when others do.

mark

[Triana]

22. They've never said. Because he isn't. They're all "poutraged" over his remarks but...

..don't expect them to come up with VALID reasons why he's wrong. He's not.

(cutting taxes and tort reform, like someone else said here - is NOT going to get all Americans decent health care - PERIOD).

He's SO NOT wrong. And the Right - AND the "Blue Dogs" - ARE.

[Rockholm]

23. To prove he is NOT WRONG........

The right wing talking heads are going after the "holocaust" word...not the intent or the message. Typical republican bullshit.....
Attack the messenger
Distort the facts
Confuse the topic

[CTyankee]

28. boy, does your post validate what I have been saying (see above).

Eyes on the prize, folks...

[robcon]

29. Grayson is an ass: his words are incendiary and untrue.

He should apologize.

[Tripmann]

32. Bullshit

It's the truest thing I've heard spoken in relation to the whole healthcare debate.

[Toasterlad]

34. While It Would Have Been More Correct To Say That Republicans Don't CARE If You DIe

rather than they WANT you to die, his message is correct: the Republicans have no plan - and no intention of creating one - to reform healthcare. And without healthcare reform, people will continue to die needlessly.

Not sure how ANYONE could hold the opinion that that didn't need to be said.

[PassingFair]

35. He shouldn't have called them "Knuckle-dragging Neanderthals"....

...but I'm with him on everything else.

I'm glad someone is pointing out that
the 'pukes don't care if their fellow
Americans are DYING for a National Health
Plan.

[RagAss]

44. Horse Shit !!!!!!!

[Tsar_Bomba]

33. I support anyone that fights conservatives by any means.

Rep. Grayson is correct and gets my support.

[donheld]

42. Yes he might be wrong

The republicans may not want people to die quickly. They want to drain them of all the assets they have before they die.