Should schools abandon textbooks and instead have laptops for each student

[greenbriar]

this is an idea kicked around the district and our building may be a pilot school


Personally I use the book as a supplement and not as the heavy source...my textbook was written in 1999 it has Clinton as the last president

I think this would be an interesting idea

but...


how do you keep all the operating systems going...virus issues

going to sites that are not appropriate when the laptops are not on districts network ect...


but I must say the idea intrigues me

[anonymous171]

1. No. In my experience, technology tends to distract from learning, not enhance it.

Just increase funding for books.

[mzteris]

2. most of those books are obsolete by

the time they're printed.

[anonymous171]

5. Depends on the subject. nt

[mzteris]

60. I said "most"

didn't I?

Math? well - let's just say when my son decided to tackle Algebra at 10 - we decided to use a textbook written in 1956.

But History? Science? Philosophy? Civics? Economics? hmmmmmmmmm....... obsolete.

[muntrv]

3. Yes, at least the students would get current information.

[BlooInBloo]

27. Until you're in graduate school, the content is almost completely unchanging...

There are a few exceptions, but not many.

There's little need for updates on 1+1=2.

[greenbriar]

31. History need updating

my current book is from 1999

[BlooInBloo]

33. (shrug) From now to 1999 is aboutt what - .00000001% of history?

As I said, there are exceptions, but they are limited.

[tammywammy]

40. Couldn't they buy a supplemental book that covers the last few years?

One book that covers the bulk and a smaller little book for the stuff that's happened since.

[Codeine]

46. Few history classes concern themselves with the last ten years. nt

[Telly Savalas]

4. If grade school and high school text books are priced anything like those at the college level

our school districts could save trillions doing this.

[HereSince1628]

6. Yes, stop early and severe damage to young spines

have you seen the ridiculous loads strapped to the backs of 7 year olds?

[Codeine]

52. "Sever damage to young spines." Nonsense.

Children are not Hummel figurines apt to be broken with the slightest pressure. Pure piffle - the fevered rantings of the overly-protective helicopter parent.

[tabbycat31]

7. my issue with laptops

is that computers do more harm than good in class. I have many classes this semester in a computer lab. Most of the class is on Facebook the whole time.

[customerserviceguy]

37. In the case you describe

it's more a matter of misuse than anything else. Some sort of electronic book is going to replace the textbook eventually, and it will likely be sooner rather than later.

It is possible to restrict the ability to surf to only a few selected websites or server locations, that will fix the problem.

[greenbriar]

38. we can at school

we also have "electronic eye" to view what each student is doing at all times


we can also limit the sites they go during lessons

[madeline_con]

45. Your district can filter the content. n/t

[onehandle]

8. I think Apple has this in mind for their upcoming tablet Mac. They have been talking to publishers.

About textbooks and regular books.

I think the iTunes store is about to go big on publishing.

Viruses? What's that? And a rock solid OS.

Next year will be very interesting.

[anonymous171]

10. Well, they may have to lower their prices then.

I doubt most school districts could afford mac laptops for their students.

[onehandle]

21. How 1996 of you.

There are states that have provided hundred of thousands of Macs for students here in the future.

[anonymous171]

24. Umm, I just checked on their website, everything is still as overpriced as I remembered. nt

[onehandle]

28. Well I checked other websites and see that they are not overpriced.

So there!

[Codeine]

49. Schools do not pay retail for Apple computers.

Apple makes very generous deals with schools and that is one reason why education has always been dominated by that brand.

[anonymous171]

53. Ah I see.

I was wondering about that. All of the computers that I used in my old elementary school way back in the 90s were macs. Makes sense.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

12. Apple tried this more than a decade ago,

My girlfriend has one of these in her hall of junk, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMate_300

[onehandle]

17. Steve Ballmer predicted that the iMac, iPhone, and Apple Stores would fail.

That you, Steve?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

18. No, but my iBook sure failed - more times than I could count

[onehandle]

26. And yet they have the highest satisfaction and customer service ratings.

But if you say so, then all Macs must suck.

I'll toss mine out the window.

Happy?

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. You will pry my Macbook off my cold dead hands

:-)

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

62. They should have done the poll at the Fucktard Bar at South Coast Plaza

As a whole mob of angry iBook owners congregated comparing notes on which logicboard replacement they were on while waiting for their audience with Emo Girl and Mr. Waxed Eyebrows.

[anonymous171]

20. Of course he did, he works for the other guy. nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Well, computers can give you updated info, but then again the book batteries last longer.

They both have their place in education, so I think neither should be done away with.

[anonymous171]

13. The book itself lasts longer as well.

While a laptop is good for like 2-3 years maximum.

[Fumesucker]

11. Is there a laptop made that a third grader couldn't destroy in thirty seconds?

My grandkids have three EMacs, Macs that were made for educational environments, they are built like an Abrams tank and the off button is in the back and hard to find even if you know just where it is.

Apple has been in the educational environment for a long time and I strongly suspect they knew what they were doing when they designed the EMac.

I'm not averse to the idea of kids having laptops but virtually all the laptops I've seen and handled are pretty fragile to be put in the hands of the average child.

[Ms. Toad]

25. This one comes close

http://laptop.org/en/laptop/hardware/index.shtml

The pictures don't do really it justice - the first thing you notice when you see one in person is that there are not individual keys - but a rubber keypad. Spilled drinks - no problem.

[Fumesucker]

35. That looks interesting.. Thanks for posting.. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. Laptops might be too expensive... what about something like a 100Gb flash drive?

All the textbooks in the school can be included in PDF form. For those students that don't have computers at home, their parents could sign for a mini-computer with ROM that only supports the files on the flashdrive, and an LCD monitor of some kind.

[fujiyama]

15. There are a lot of potential problems

Computers in the class can be distracting, especially when connected to the internet.

They are also very likely to be misplaced and stolen.

However, I think it's a racket how much those text book companies charge and I wouldn't be surprised if they rip off school districts the same way they do college student. Students shouldn't need to lug around 30 lbs of books. That is a health hazard. The curriculum should be reformed to use smaller books (have current books split into several different books) - or have a copy both at the school and home if needed. This would be sufficient for basic math, science, and subjects that haven't changed. For most social studies, computers would be more beneficial - as it deals with current events. Also hardcovers are a waste of money, as are too many flashy photos especially in math books.

[girl gone mad]

59. If you think textbooks are expensive now, wait until they go digital.

The business model will be pay per view, or pay per time limit. The district/student will not own the book, in effect, they'll be renting it. No copying or resale allowed. Content can be altered and removed without notice or consent.

[anonymous171]

61. I believe they are already doing that.

It's insane.

[Robb]

16. Smart boards and electronic whiteboards are far better teaching tools

Promethean and what-not. Much more interactive for the students, and I've seen some amazing teaching take place with them.

[greenbriar]

29. I have a smart board, an air liner and use United Streaming

I use the book only for supplemental or if I am out for the day

[Robb]

34. Our district is heavy into Promethean boards these days

I have to say I'm a bit of a fuddy-duddy on this sort of thing in general, but I was very impressed to see them in classrooms.

Edited to add: I'm not a teacher or anything, I mean "our" district as "the one I live in." :)

[LostInAnomie]

19. No.

There are a bunch of problems with that idea.

1. Laptops are very expensive, easily damaged, and become obsolete quickly.
2. If the text is on the laptop only you would have to allow students to take them home where the unscrupulous parent/uncle/friend of the family/etc. could dismantle or sell the computer. Trust me, that would happen in abundance.
3. Not all teachers are computer experts. If a laptop screws up the teacher would have to spend class time trying to assist students with their computer.

I could go on, but until computers are as cheap and foolproof as books, I say stick with the books.

[JBoy]

22. No. Kids need to read. Nothing has yet replaced a book for ease of reading.

[exboyfil]

23. My daughter votes with a resounding no

She is very computer literate, but can not stand reading textbooks off the computer. Something like a Kindle might work a little better.

The biggest problem I have with textbooks is that they are poorly written, do not adequately cover the important material, and spend far too much time on unimportant material (look at an Algebra book for example). They have time for lots of writeups about careers etc, but don't do very many example problems. It is seeing example problems worked that is the best teacher for the material.

I think we could go to open source textbooks that can be printed in packets by subject. In many cases a large amount of material is repeat from year to year (like in math). Such packets would be far more useful, much less expensive, and done cheaply enough (hole punched to fit into a spiral) could be retained by the student for future reference (this would be very useful for math, science, grammar, and foreign languages). Our school system does not even let the kids take home their grammar book because they only have enough copies for one class (this is ridiculous).

Don't get me started about the heaviness of the textbooks. My daughter has four academic subjects that see has to bring home nightly and each textbook is as large as my Physics I textbook from college. Her backpack is enourmous. She also has a large spiral and a reading book for English (I guess I should feel fortunate she does not have to haul the grammar book as well).

[BlooInBloo]

30. (shrug) Whatever. Which information conduit one uses doesn't matter all that much...

from an intellectual point of view.

Possibly there are cost savings stemming from using soft copies of books, rather than hard copies, however.

[Swamp Rat]

32. If they offer me a brand new Apple MacBook Pro, with free upgrades every year for 5 years, then yes.

And it has to come with at least 8 gigs of RAM, and a 2 TB solid-state drive, extra keyboard and mouse, and Adobe Creative Suite, Logic Pro, and Final Cut Pro. And, a color laser printer (plotter) with 5 years free maintenance and ink.

Other than that, I prefer books. :)

[teach1st]

36. It works

I've had second and fifth grade classes recently and currently that make extensive use of laptops. I provide most of the learning activities through Moodle and other software. It works wonderfully, even for reading.

The kids log in, and are presented with a greeting, instructions, and a variety of activities including short films, interactive lessons, quizzes, and reading material. For reluctant readers, the online texts I use are wonderful - I have students who were "book lookers" a month ago (who, during traditional reading time, would just look at books...not read) who are now reading over an hour a day online. I can easily tap into texts in other languages for my students with limited English. My online math manipulatives are in some ways better than real manipulatives for the young ones, who can't throw or fiddle with the virtual stuff like they are prone to do during real life manipulative lessons.

I don't see the distractions during online lessons that others here point out. In fact, most ADD students I've taught have an easier time focusing with computer tasks.

It's not easy, and it takes a lot of time to design online learning that works. It's also important to alternate the online learning sessions with real world learning sessions and breaks for physical activity throughtout the school day. There is still no substitute for an adult reading a real book to the young ones, for extended student reading with real books, and for mapping out pre-writing ideas on paper.

[rucky]

39. A kindle-type reader with a stylus

Would be the shizz. Seen the size of kids' backpacks lately?

[omega minimo]

41. No. Reading a book is different than reading a computer. Any more illiteracy and we might as well

all jump off a cliff

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. I think someting like a Kindle or other book reader

would be ideal.

Hell if I were going back to college right now I'd buy one in a heart beat and get as many of my books electronically.

Now as to what OS to use...

My school computer would have to be a NETBOOK.

And the OS of choice, Open Source, Ubuntu.

Why?

Far less games, and the netbooks don't have the power to run them.

[piratefish08]

63. Agreed. My daughters school bag must weigh 30 lbs......

[SheilaT]

43. The first thought that comes to my mind

is how would all the students who are addicted to highlighting their textbooks ever manage?

[ecstatic]

44. I don't think it's a good idea

I think reading comprehension /vocabulary grows by reading actual books. I used to be extremely good at writing until I switched to the Internet for everything.

[greenbriar]

48. I think if a teacher varied instruction and provided a plethora of resources

things would be good


I don't think relying solely on the computer is the answer but I would love to have a laptop for each of my students

[omega minimo]

54. If you came up with whatever combination leaves students with a vocabulary

that includes "plethora," it's all good. :thumbsup:

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. I love it

Inappropriate sites can be blocked. It's also a big money saver. Textbooks are very expensive.

All of our texts will be online eventually.

[anonymous171]

51. Textbooks will never be free, ever.

No matter what medium they are on. They are too profitable (or on the flip side, too expensive to make.)

[omega minimo]

55. No. Never. Books are basic. That's it.

[MadHound]

56. All X will be on the new medium, that's what they said about music

Back when we made the transition from vinyl to CD's. Yet there's a ton of music on vinyl that didn't make the transition and you can hardly find anymore. Same with the transition from CD's to digital, you can already see certain genres, artists, songs not making the jump.

The same will happen with books. Hell, already there are many books published within the past hundred years that are scarce on the ground, books that are fundamental in so many areas. Making the jump to digital will mean that entire areas of knowledge will be left with gaping holes.

Call me a luddite, what you will, but switching to a digital format with books will lead to a loss of knowledge, a loss of our past. This isn't a good idea.

[Odin2005]

57. That technology is not as integrated into education as it should be is a travesty.

[Statistical]

58. Logistics will be very very very very very very expensive.

Most organizations who don't have a field deployment MASSIVELY under estimate the TCO (total cost of ownership).

You have the laptop hardware and software and that is NEGLIBLE. This is why companies don't care about paying for windows.
The hardware and software is the tiniest part of the software cost.

Just some components:

1) Hardware
2) Software
3) Damaged Equipment - Repairs
4) Damaged Equipments - Obtaining parts (sometimes machines reach end of life how do you deal w/ no more parts? Now you have 2 models in field everything got 3x as complicated)
4) Lost Equipment
5) Helpdesk for troubleshooting daily issues
6) Software support. Testing upgrade. Adobe Flash upgrade does it break requires functionality. Now imagine that for every upgrade of every app, the OS, every plugin, everything
7) Maintenance depot.
8) Training

Most people look at laptop hardware costs of say $600 and say hey that would be cheap. Cost is more like $500 - $2000 per machine PER YEAR for life assuming hardware upgrade every 3 years.

$2000 * 1 million students = $2 billion * 12 years (K-12) = $24 billion.

Now it can be done. My previous employer was one of the best for whole lifecycle maintenance & support for pharma clients. It isn't as cheap as most people assume though.

Will we get there someday? Sure but it will take some real dollars. In the interm something like Amazon Kindle (maybe a hardened one) would be better solution.