Can someone please tell me what the difference is between a corporatist and a capitalist.

[CTyankee]

I have a Repub. friend who says he is NOT a corporatist. I don't get it..

[tekisui]

1. Self-delusion?

:shrug:

Or ignorance.

[CTyankee]

19. Good question! nt

[anonymous171]

2. From what I understand, corporatists want a coporate welfare state,

as opposed to a regular welfare state. So bailouts, tax incentives for rich folks, and privatized government facilities (like prisons) are all corporatist policies.

[SpiralHawk]

3. Perfect description of Republiconism

The so-called philosophy that flushed America's economy into the crapper for generations to come

[CTyankee]

13. Incisive. Thank you! nt

[CTyankee]

16. Excellent! The "corporate welfare state." Beautiful. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. Quite a lot, if you really want to know

corporatism: The organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/corporatism

It's political, rather than economic, and isn't limited to capitalism.

[Trillo]

38. That's interesting: That corporatism isn't limited to capitalism.

There is a big difference between: one share one vote, and one person one vote. When rulings claim that a corporation is "a person", and some, if not all, of the corporations so declared are composed of many shares, it all gets rather confusing, even intellectually ugly.

[DJ13]

5. Corporatist is just another term for Mussolini style Fascism

Capitalism can exist in concert with a Democracy, but Corporatism replaces Democracy with corporate control.

[pnwmom]

8. True. But some DUers echo Nader, who uses the term very loosely. n/t

[DJ13]

10. Good point

:thumbsup:

[bertman]

36. Who uses WHICH term loosely, pnwmom? Corporatism or capitalism?

[WCGreen]

6. Capitalism is based on a free open market to determine prices and

ration resources...

A corporatist economy is based on distorting the markers to enable the amassing of market share to corporations.

At least that is my take on it.

[CTyankee]

14. That makes sense when I assess what my pub friend talks about. Thanks. nt

[NYC_SKP]

7. The girl on the corner selling lemonade, or the mom and pop hardware store, is capitalist.

And corporatists would HATE them.

That help?

[CTyankee]

25. perfect! It distills capitalists and corporatists perfectly! nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. It's just a vague, essentially meaningless slur.

[Prism]

11. It's a matter of competition vs guaranteed outcome

Corporatism is the manipulation of the state to protect the corporation at all costs.

Capitalism would allow companies to stand or fall on their own and lead to the destruction or devolution of companies with poor business practices, poor money management, poor planning, better competition, etc.

Corporatism gives us concepts like "too big to fail" and government bailouts after multi-millionaire CEOs and corporate boards run these companies into the ground. Corporatism is why Wall Street adopted the attitude of reckless risk-taking that directly led to the current collapse.

A capitalist system, where these firms and banks knew the end would be the end, period, would have been far less cavalier about the ponzi schemes they erected throughout the financial system. Oh, they still would've tried screwing everyone under them (which is why closely regulated capitalism is best), but the kind of clusterfuck that brought the entire economy down would have been avoided.

[CTyankee]

12. Thank you for your very informed answer. I admit to needing an education here.

You were very insightful and I thank you.

[Oregone]

15. A corporatist is a successful capitalist who accumulates too much power

Such that they may influence government to protect their interests at any cost to the society.

[CTyankee]

17. Interesting ...and I think very true. As it has come to pass here in the US.

Bad situation...

[rug]

18. Capital.

The other is a wannabe, authoritarian, enabling ideology.

[CTyankee]

20. So the corporatist has basically "deformed" capitalism to a kind of favoritism insured by

our elected elite?

[rug]

21. For one thing, lacking sufficient capital, they opt to use law, legal structures and

and political influence. Capitalists just don't give a shit about what you call it. They already have the capital which is the real power. China is a case in point.

[BOG PERSON]

22. "Corporatist" has a certain spluttering quality

that "capitalist" lacks. So you can call somebody a "capitalist" without sounding like a moron, but that also requires you to know what a capitalist does.

[paulsby]

23. i'm a capitalist

but not a corporatist.

i firmly support capitalism as the best economic system available.

in many cases, corporatist is a word that opponents of capitalism use to demean their ideological opponents. because it has a nasty flavor. "oh, you're a corporatist".

i'm proud to be a capitalist. but not a corporatist

[CTyankee]

24. Does your being a capitalist help you? Does it help you?

I am wondering. Are you better off because you are a capitalist?

I ask this because, quite frankly, I have raised money in Greenwich, CT , where there are a LOT of capitalists. I have to tell you a harsh truth. These people do NOT want you in their club. Nothing personal, they just have their own little group and YOU and I are not part of it. Now maybe they are corporitists and I didn't know the difference, but believe me, if you think you are part of their society, think again. They don't want you into the club...many are Ivy League grads whose schooling informs them as to who are the "right" people to associate with, with their Harvard Club and Yale Club...you get the picture....

Just my observation, of course...let me know what you think...

[paulsby]

29. how do you know what club

i'm in or aren't in.

fraternities?

secret societies?
the social register?

do you know whether i went to ivy league? or my dad? or my grandfather?

that's not what this is about.

you can play the Us vs. them thang all you want. capitalism isn't about society. one of my friends is a stock trader. he's a capitalist. he does it from his den, with a computer.

i really don't know what to think, except you are doing the same thing that others do when they want to demonize "the other", in this case the "evil capitalist" but it's no different that demonizing any other group that you dislike

capitalism has worked well for my family, from the first immigrants on down the line. uneven results, but overwhelmingly i see discipline, hard work, and perseverence inevitably pays off.

i believe in the american dream, and i believe in capitalism. it's there for anybody else who wants it to. that's pretty fricking sweet.

[CTyankee]

30. Believe me, if they went to an Ivy League school they would never let you forget it!

And yes, they invite you to have dinner or lunch with them at "the Club" and that often means the Harvard Club or the Yale Club in Manhattan (from my perspective here in CT). They groom their kids for an Ivy League School, Greenwich Country Day, Greenwich Academy, Brunswick Academy, for instance. They make sure you know if/when their kid gets into an Ivy League school.

I didn't really say I disliked the people I raised money from in Greenwich; I just said they are different from you and me, altho I have several Ivy Leaguers and a couple of Seven Sisters alums in my family. And it really isn't personal...they put a lot of value on their I.L. education. And if you went to say, a Yale or Harvard grad school and NOT the College, that doesn't really "count."

An interesting sidebar on Yale, which I know something about living as I do in New Haven: Yale is quite open about the fact that their aim is to produce the future leaders of this country. By that they mostly mean Presidents altho the CIA connection is notorious. It's annoying, I know, but there it is.

I don't get too worked up over it; mostly, I'm amused. And don't you get worked up over it either...I'm sorry if my post provoked your anger...really, it is just an observation I made with a very narrow socioeconomic group I had some knowledge of over the years...

[paulsby]

32. i'm not going to say

whether i went to an ivy league or not.

but i like your post.

i'm not worked up. barely in a lather here :)

i will tell you i went to prep school and spent PLENTY of time around some very wealthy people (old skool newport RI cliff walk mansion style wealth), so i know the crowd.

i really believe people are people. rich, poor, whatever

[cali]

31. Having grown up in New Canaan, I think I can say I'm familiar with the area and

its denizens. What has that got to do the post you're responding too? The folks that live in that area are often the CEOs of some of the worst corporations in the world. They aren't representative of anyone by the highest echelon of the highest one percent.

[bertman]

37. Paulsby, I respect your choice to be a capitalist, but I think there are better choices.

I personally am a capitalist because I use my own money to fund my business--along with my business partner, who also equally funds the business. So, in the purest sense of the term capitalism I have no problem with individuals or groups of individuals providing money (capital) to businesses to help finance those businesses' operations.

The rub comes in when you start to see how the game is played.

Investing in a company or small business or corporation can be a very noble and worthy endeavor. It involves risk, but it also involves giving people a chance to develop their dreams and ideas into reality as a business. But what has evolved in the last few centuries is a system of capital that is only about MAKING MORE MONEY. As I said, I'm a business owner and a small c capitalist, but I have chosen to separate myself from the Capital C Capitalism that shows no regard for the welfare of the workers, the safety of the consumers, the protection of our planet and our finite and fragile resources, or the viability of our democratic system in the United States and the world.

The goal of making more money by "letting one's money do the work" has degenerated into a feeding frenzy of buying and selling of companies simply to sell their assets and liquidate the company (fire the workers, close the factories, shops, etc.) so a few well-placed financial wizards can make millions and some stockholders can fatten their portfolios. In the name of capitalism and competition, we have dismantled America's industrial base and shipped it around the world to the countries who have the lowest-paid wage slaves, the weakest worker protections, and virtually no protections for the environment. But, hey these stocks are soaring on Wall Street. So, the investor class is making a killing.

There will always be a need for individuals to invest in businesses. There will always be people who are willing to take risks with their money. There will always be people who are willing to sacrifice the well-being of pretty much everyone just to fatten their bank accounts.

That's why I support democratic socialism as a regulatory mechanism to control the malfeasance of capitalists. Many European countries have a capitalistic system that is moderated and controlled by government regulation. In the U.S. that is considered anathema to "free enterprise" because we have been told that the free markets will always take the most efficient path. Now we know that free-market capitalism does NOT always take that path. Instead, it takes the path of unfettered greed and corruption of the mechanisms of government that are supposed to protect us citizens/workers from unbridled capitalism, aka corporatism.

Unrestrained capitalism, like any economic system can be corrupted, and it has been. Corrupted beyond its usefulness, it now needs to be severely reined in and kept under close supervision until we can figure out how to keep it from eating us alive.

[AntiFascist]

26. Don't forget Walmart...

which may have favored trading status, by virtue of politics, with a "Communist"/corporatist nation where the normal rules of capitalistic competition don't apply. This allows them to offer lower prices, and provides an unfair advantage to anyone who tries to compete on their playing field. Given the depressed status of their customers and the jobless environment for their employees, lower prices suit their needs well and they don't have to pay very good wages.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Corporatists are for the status quo "free market" fanatics

Capitalists would have trouble with things like monopolies and all for government intervention to break them up. Oh wait, don't expect this to be common knowledge since most folks have never, ever read the Wealth of Nations.

Oh and corporatists are all for too large to fail with government protection, while capitalists are all for small businesses free to succeed in an environment without monopolies.

[armyowalgreens]

28. Corporatism is Fascism. And it is not the same as capitalism.

One can be a capitalist without being a corporatist.

[Trillo]

33. A capitalist is someone who wants your money voluntarily given in exchange

for something. Someone who is most often restrained by social and moral restraints of varying kinds, including legal.

A corporatist is a tribe of capitalists who at first gathered and conspired together to get your money. The individual social and varying moral constraints of the individuals making up this group tended to be canceled or diluted, while they all agreed and reinforced each other on the singular need to make money. Sooner or later they engaged the power of the state and the power of law, either openly or clandestinely, to take your money.

---

I had hoped to make a glib humorous reply, that seems to have failed.

[pws]

34. excellent summary

[Trillo]

39. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[JVS]

35. A corporatist is the one who actually profits, a capitalist is the chump/ "true believer" in ...

a system that by its very nature becomes corporatism.