Can one support gays in the military AND be a pacifist?

[subcomhd]

They seem mutually exclusive yet an old frien and pacifist told me today he was disappointed in O for not reversing DADT. Go figure.

[LuvNewcastle]

1. It's just belief in equality of opportunity.

What a person does with his/her opportunity is their business.

[subcomhd]

3. To kill? I support repeal of DADT, but I'm not a pacifist.

To me it is like someone on the right who says they are for small government but oppose gay marriage or support the drug war. maybe then my friend isn't a pacifist any more. he once was, though. I just thought it odd.

[LuvNewcastle]

12. You're friend probably just sees the

issue as a social injustice that should be rectified. Maybe his sense of social justice is more important to him than his pacifism.:shrug:

[subcomhd]

15. Probably, and I think I have misunderstood pacifism.

[Shandris]

2. I think even pacifists are aware of the need for a military...

...from a defensive point of view. As such, your friend seems to be entirely consistent in his defense of gays/opposition to DADT, particularly when one considers the lunacy of saying a gay person wouldn't be as inclined to defend their own country.

[subcomhd]

6. I would have thought a pacifist wouldn't want gays, straights or anyone in the military.

and I'm not sure they beilive in a standing military at all - pacifists don't believe in violence even for sd I don't think. turn the other cheek and all.

[virgogal]

4. Of course.

[Captain Hilts]

5. Yes. It's important for the military to reflect society and to not exclude certain groups

from the benefits - education and opportunity - that the military can provide.

[subcomhd]

9. but there shouldn't be a military - if one is a pacifist.

[Captain Hilts]

16. The idea is if a wider swath of the population 'has skin in the game' then

we'd be less likely to have wars. Hence all the commentary about so few of the kids of congresscritters - or the Bush twins - being in the military.

Sgt. Alvin York was a conscientious objector.

[subcomhd]

17. I have a better idea

any congressman voting for war (declaration or use of force) is automatically commissioned as a 2nd Lt. in the infantry.

[Captain Hilts]

20. Works for me. nt

[TheWraith]

7. Depends on the type of pacifist.

If you believe that there should be no such thing as a military, then believing gays should be able to serve in the military is a bit redundant.

If someone's a non-extreme pacifist, and accepts either the idea of self-defense or the simple practicality that the military as an institution isn't going away, then it's perfectly consistent.

[subcomhd]

10. OK - I guess that's the question

do pacifists believe in violence for self-defense? If they do, my friend isn't being contradictory.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Some do, a few don't

those few are rare by the way

[subcomhd]

14. like some sects of Buddhist monks who walk around bugs, I suppose.

Okay. Thanks for that. i really thought it meant no violence ever.

[DireStrike]

19. Hey, I avoid stepping on ants and still believe in self-defense

Care for living creatures, and the nature and acceptable use of violence, are two separate questions.

[DireStrike]

18. That's not the only out - "practical pacifist"

Or such as they'd call themselves, anyway... as TheWraith said, someone who believes the military just will never go away.

Like an atheist who admits that religion is probably here to stay.

[Vincardog]

8. YES you can support EQUALITY and not have to personally endorse the military

You can be a pacifist and be in the military in a non combat role

[Ineeda]

11. Interesting question, but yes.

IMO, it's similar to supporting a woman who is vehemently against abortion (or pro, for that matter) for herself, as long as she doesn't oppose your right to choose. DADT and DOMA infringe on the rights of gays/lesbians to choose. They should be entitled to exactly the same choices as straight folks.

[TexasObserver]

21. Pacifists don't hate soldiers. They hate war.

If one supports gay rights, one supports them for gays wherever they are.

[Sapphocrat]

22. There are people (including many radical queers)...

...who do not believe in marriage as an institution. Yet as they shrug and wonder why I want to be married, they support me 100%, without condition or reservation.

I hate everything "the military" stands for.* I hate war. I think anyone who voluntarily joins a system that requires them to kill (not to mention a system that despises them so) is misguided at best. And yet if this is what some of my gay brothers and sisters want to do with their lives, I support them 100%, without condition or reservation.

Make more sense now?



* Not soldiers, but "the military." Hopefully, no one needs me to explain that, and anyone who says he does is being deliberately obtuse.

[seabeyond]

23. not only can i be a pacifist and support the gays, but i can support them while at battle...nt

[subcomhd]

24. but what if the gays are misogynistic?

just kidding - hello seabeyond. how's the panhandle?

[seabeyond]

25. .

so not me, wink. didnt feel right wearin it.


it is nippy.....

[subcomhd]

26. I am sure you would. nt