Dissent

[AllentownJake]

Is normally a good thing to have around. I have seen a few post trying to bash people on the "left" for being critical of the Nobel Peace Prize. I personally think it is premature but, if the committee wants to endorse the direction the President is taking the US internationally. Good for them, and good for us that the rest of the world believes we are headed on a more stabilizing and peaceful track.

I also understand those of us who want our troops to be home and are frustrated about Afghanistan. I can tell you this, they don't care what he said during the campaign. They had a choice between escalation in Iran and Iraq or escalation of Afghanistan. They still think that Afghanistan is wrong and they were just being good pragmatist in the polling booth. Doesn't mean they weren't listening or they liked it any more back than.

That being said, I worked on the campaign as a volunteer leader. As such I got access to see things and talk to more people than most in the DU would. I shook the man's hand. I don't think the President is exactly thrilled by this honor. Puts a lot of pressure on him and from the stories I heard about his character and views of accomplishment, I guarantee you President Obama is saying guys, I'd love to receive this award someday, but let me do something to warrant it. He's a humble guy like that, and every story of any staffer who worked for him confirmed that to me. He'll of course accept it but from what I've heard from people's personal stories about the President (not the myths real people and their interaction) I guarantee President Obama is really humbled and concerned about living up to the honor.

As I type this there are 323 recs on the announcement of the Nobel Peace Prize. There is no Left Wing hate fest going on. There are some people who are critical about something they strongly believe in expressing their opinion.

When one no longer feels free to express their opinion on something, we become like the right. When we can't discuss things we become like the right. When we can't look at those with dissent and consider their point of view (not necessarily agree with it but listen to it and intellectually process it) we become like the right.

Congratulations to President Obama for taking us in a new direction. I'm pleased that the rest of the world agrees with your vastly different approach to world problems than your predecessor and I pray that you live up to the honor that has been bestowed onto you today.

[ananda]

1. Obama is not Bush.

This prize shows us how universally despised Bush was.
Obama just looks so much better....

[AllentownJake]

2. I gave him 9 months of my life

Worked 100s of hours for free, made countless phone calls and knocked on doors in some pretty racist republican areas. Not being Bush will never be the standard I hold him to.

[iceman66]

6. The significance of 'not being Bush' should not be understated

Of course Bush was just the figurehead, but there were some truly evil people guiding his hand, like Cheney, who would have continued to exert considerable influence in a McCain/Palin administration.

The world is a much, much safer place because Obama won the election, even if he sometimes fails to live up to everybody's expectations.

[Bluerthanblue]

31. you use the word "gave"-

that means it was your choice to freely offer yourself. Did you put strings on that? if so, then it wasn't a gift. I've given many gifts in my 50+yrs. Some have blossomed and continue to give- others have not. A gift is not given with expectations of anything in return-

I don't believe your gift to Pres. Obama was a mistake- or something you will come to regret- It's something you should always feel good about no matter what may come. Because it's an important part of becoming who you are- than it is about 'them'.

Pres. Obama's given us far more than most of us like to really acknowledge. His entire life is altered, and that of his wife and children. All the fame and money in the world will not be able to restore some of what he's already given up for the sake of -the well being of others.

:hi:

[AllentownJake]

32. He asked me to

He wanted the office. I didn't ask him to run, he decided to and than he asked me to help him.

If my standard was not being George W. Bush, I wouldn't have given him so much. Other than the advice he's getting from Larry Summers and Tim Geithner. I'm pretty happy with him.

[Bluerthanblue]

33. he asked everyone -

you responded. That says so much about you- (good things imo). I also believe HE was asked to run for office- and he responded. also a good thing.

I'm not so sure you wouldn't have given "so much" of yourself regardless of the standard you hold him to. Are you?
I also admit there are some things he's done or not done that disappoint me, but on the whole- I am very glad he is our president. And I'm glad of having been part of helping him get there (on a smaller scale than you). :hi:

We are on a much better path than we've been in years. We knew this wasn't going to be quick or easy, so many things were done that we didn't realize would be as destructive and difficult to repair as they've proven to be- But we are moving in the right directions. imo.

peace~
blu

[iceman66]

3. Excellent post.

Obama is faced with a lot of difficult choices right now and hopefully winning the prize will help to nudge him in the right direction.

[MineralMan]

4. Well said.

It's difficult for many here to expand their viewpoint beyond American concerns to view President Obama from a world perspective. The award is a bit odd, in some ways, but is based on actual accomplishments in opening dialogs where they did not exist previously. That, in itself, is a difficult task.

The Nobel Prize is not a national thing. It is a global award. Looked at in a global sense, it does make sense. Time will tell whether the trend can be continued in the future.

[AllentownJake]

16. He took Missile bases out of Poland

Reversing 30 years of a Missile Defense Policy that has done nothing but piss off the largest holders of Nuclear Weapons.

For that, I can agree on a Peace Prize

[MineralMan]

21. Yes, ending that Bush project transformed our relationship with

Russia in real ways. It was a very good thing. Saber-rattling is rarely productive.

[AllentownJake]

22. He did it without preconditions either

I think it shocked the hell out of Moscow.

[MineralMan]

24. No doubt. It was a bad plan to begin with, and would have

protected nothing from anything. It was Bush's bowing to the remainder of the anti-communist rightists out there. Saber-rattling always pleases the far right base.

Since the project was an expensive, useless gesture, President Obama wisely threw it out.

[vi5]

5. Why does dissent have to be "hate"?

Not that you were saying that, just kind of riffing off your points.

I mean I far from hate Obama and I far from hate the Nobel committee. I just think it makes everyone look a bit silly to give this award for someone so soon into their tenure of influence, based largely on their rhetoric. And if you are going to give it to someone based on rhetoric, it should be someone who has backed up that rhetoric with considerable action.

While I applaud and agree with much of Obama's rhetoric and his words, I also feel like he's countered that positive with many negatives in terms of how he is handling the wars, etc.

So....it can be something less than hate and something other than uncritical adulation and agreement.

[AllentownJake]

7. It doesn't

There are those on here, that do not like people disagreeing with them.

[scheming daemons]

8. Great post, ATJ.... *THAT* is how it is done

If you have difficulty with the things this President is doing, AllentownJake just showed you the right way to voice it.


Echoing freeper arguments and sentiment like... "for what!?" or "What are they smoking?" .... gets you properly labelled as a crank, a hater, and yes... freeper-lite.

[AllentownJake]

10. People have strong opinions both ways

Rational discourse is the better course....on both sides.

People are angry about the Afghanistan war, that being said things are being done in a larger context. I.E pulling missile bases from Poland, which the rest of the world is pleased because the dialogue between the two biggest Nuclear Powers has been turned into a reasonable tone.

Thank you for the compliment.

[Hannah Bell]

28. "for what!?" - yep, that's sure inflammatory.

[jpljr77]

9. Why are moderators stifling the dissent, then?

There have been many posts removed in the past few minutes that have stated very calm, rational objections to the 2009 Noble Peace Prize winner. And you should note how I phrased that.

Believe it or not, this is not about Obama. There is always discussion about the Peace Prize after it's awarded. And that's what this is, to me at least. I have a lot of respect for that honor, and I don't think it should go to people who are actively escalating a war. Even if that person received two votes, quite a bit of money, and a considerable amount of time from me. In other words, even if it's someone I agree with on pretty much every other thing.

This is not a "validate my decision" prize, or a "you show a lot of promise" prize, as many here are treating it....it's a Peace Prize.

[AllentownJake]

11. Take it up with the moderators

Like I said I agree with the direction internationally the President has taken us with the exception of Afghanistan. I view this as the Nobel Committee endorsing that direction.

[jpljr77]

12. And I agree. The direction is 180 degrees, that cannot be denied.

Especially in the eyes of the rest of the world. And I love it.

It just so happens that the one exception, Afghanistan, is kind of big deal in this particular context. That one exception involves war, the opposite of peace. I know that this particular rationale is very binary, that it appears I am not reading into the vast shades of gray in his other accomplishments. But it's just such a big deal for this particular honor.

[AllentownJake]

13. One cannot understimate

That his predecessor had been the most destructive force the world had unleashed on it, in 60 years.

[Robyn66]

14. Some are going to shit on ANYTHING the president says does or happens to him

because their pet issue has not been handled to their satisfaction within the first year of his administration. Never mind the cluster fuck he walked in to, never mind the fact he has been juggeling two wars an economy in complete meltdown and a health care crisis. Lets throw in the Rethuglicans whipping up every racist red neck Ruby Ridge asshole in the country into a frenzy. UNLIKE Bush President Obama has a BRAIN. He IS drawing down troops in Iraq, he IS closing Guantanamo Bay and I am confident he is looking for a solution in Afghanistan. Things aren't moving as quickly as some would like (he has had almost 9 WHOLE MONTHS TO FIX 8 YEARS OF FUCK UPS) but please give him SOME credit.

I would MUCH rather have a president take his time and do things right than one who bulls ahead with his agenda and not care about the fall out! Afghanistan will take a lot of diplomatic work and the military is going to have to help make that happen. It sounds to me like the generals are talking about that. But hey lets just get out leaving the Afghan people to deal with the fall out- that will make everyone safer in the long run.

Call me whatever you want, I have faith in my president. He is a smart man. He is not perfect and he is not doing everything I want him to do but he is the best man for the job. He is certainly better than a Republican.

[AllentownJake]

15. Yes and without dissent

How does our President know what "We the People" want.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease and the only way that the wars will end, is when "We the People" stand up and tell him they must end.

[Robyn66]

17. Absolutely

I guess the only thing that bothers me is when he is equated with Bush or when people act like he doesn't want to end the wars. Because none of these things are true. But dissent is a very important part of a free society!

[AllentownJake]

19. People get emotional

and say silly things on both sides. They are no worse than the people that only can discuss Michelle's wardrobe.

[damntexdem]

18. If this prize puts more pressure on the Prez, that's all for the good.

It's the correct type of pressure.

[AllentownJake]

20. I wouldn't want to be a sitting President with a Nobel Peace Prize

Kind of makes you live up to something.

[BlooInBloo]

23. I'm all for dissent. You get to choose yours, and I get to choose mine...

I wouldn't take that right away from you if I could. Because dissent is patriotic. I seem to recall hearing that a few times.

[Robyn66]

25. Amen my brotha from anotha motha ;)

Did you dig out that old Led Zepplin album last night for old time sake to listen to it?

[nc4bo]

26. I like the way you *speak* and feel it represents how this DUer is feeling

atm.

K&R and Congrats to our President for giving the world something to hope for.

[AllentownJake]

27. Thank you

[MH1]

29. Well said, especially the part about Afghanistan

although I do wish at times people would stop claiming Obama is "betraying" them or "lied" or some such about Afghanistan - as if they weren't paying attention during the campaign. It's ok to be disappointed that he hasn't come around to your way of thinking. But he was very clear that he was going to go after Al Qaeda aggressively in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And I think he wouldn't have been elected if he'd been campaigning on pulling out of that region.

[AllentownJake]

30. Some people thought he'd reconsider

Some people were angry about it during the campaign, others were more focused on Iraq and totally missed the Afghanistan part.