Man This is it for me. I knew good officers - they were my uncles

[Joe for Clark]

And all that as I grew up.

And I know - these bastards should be running McDonalds -

SO why is it we find them running this war??

In my life - I will never forgive them.

They are just little bastards - nothing more than that.


Ask me to forgive them - you have a better chance for me to forgive the Japanaese (not much).

It is wrong, just wrong.


Hope you do well in life-

Joe

[MadMaddie]

1. Joe..there is no forgiveness here....now or ever....

[mondo joe]

2. You have a problem with the Japanese? You have a problem with an entire

nation of people?

[crim son]

4. I was feeling the poster's pain until I read that comment.

When you hold an entire nation of people in contempt, you have a problem with or without DU.

[aquart]

9. Our army issued a guidebook for the occupation of Japan.

It reminded our soldiers that the people of Japan had little say in their government, that the leaders were in the process of being punished, and that our occupation would last not a second longer than it took to set up a democratic government. I don't know when I've felt so proud of my country.

It also had articles on Japanese history, customs, sushi, and tourist spots. With the goal of giving our people enough knowledge not to be stupid and offensive.

We were noble in victory and we have a right to be proud of that.

All gone?

[Redstone]

21. Too bad our people in Iraq never go that kind of guidance. Just one of those things that Rumdum

didn't think was important, I guess.

Redstone

[Joe for Clark]

10. I guess I do.

You know - my father was tortured by the germans - you know than??

He is a fucking war hero.

Do I have a problenm with an entire people = I guess I do.

1944 and 1945 I do.

I do NOT forgive them - I never will.

They didn't do my father - but they did my uncles.

And I have a long fucking memory.


Joe

[Bucky]

20. I hope you find peace, Joe.

This is a sad day full of pain. It's part of a sad decade that's been too full of too much pain. I still believe love is stronger than the worst pain.

I love you, Joe, and not just because you're a DUer (altho that's obviously a big part of it) but also because I know from your comments that you give a damn. That's why it hurts sometimes; we're all just too human some days. I know hurting too. I've known days when it felt like all too much. But mostly I hope you find a way to ease the weight; I hope you find peace.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bucky]

24. I'll be waiting with you for that day

I'm a teacher and I've sent off four of my ex-students to Iraq and Afghanistian. They're all Marines. At least one has gone back for second tour. The worry really eats at me some days. I want them all home. It will never happen soon enough. When I hear about deaths in Iraq, I always wonder, "Is one of them Richard? Is one of them Lee?" I fucking hate this war.

I have a dear friend and business partner who's Iranian. He's semi-retired and moved back to Tehran. The idea of us bombing Iran is very personal to me. I hate this administration.

I want you to tell me when your kid comes home. I need to hear more hopeful stories. A wise man once said we have nothing to fear but fear itself. I used to think that was a corny thing to say. I now only pray that I can be that strong. I hope my other responses in this thread didn't come off glib. I just want you to know that you're not waiting alone.

[stevedeshazer]

23. Joe - Meet my Uncle Jake. Just take a few minutes to read his story.

I'm not an evangelical Christian, but Uncle Jake is, and I learned a few things from him that may help you.

I'm excerpting liberally here an old article about him and his journey, so please bear with me.

-----

From Bombs to Something More Powerful

December 7, 1941—the bombing of Pearl Harbor—changed the world. For Army Corporal Jacob DeShazer, an amazing drama was just beginning.

Like most young Americans in the armed forces, DeShazer was eager to strike back at the enemy. He volunteered for a dangerous secret mission under Lieutenant-Colonel Jimmy Doolittle. For a month, DeShazer and about twenty other Army Air Corps volunteers trained in Florida, concentrating on low flying maneuvers. The Oregon recruit was getting an advanced course on being a bombardier in preparation for the first U.S. raid on Japan.

On April 2, 1942, DeShazer was on the deck of the U.S.S. Hornet, watching the Golden Gate Bridge grow smaller as the aircraft carrier transported sixteen B-25 bombers toward Japan. The "Bat Out of Hell" (De-Shazer's plane) was number sixteen, last in line.

A little more than two weeks later, bombardier DeShazer and his pilot, Lieutenant William Farrow, along with the co-pilot, navigator, and rear gunner, learned the true goal of their mission—to bomb Tokyo and surrounding cities. When two Japanese ships were sunk by the Americans nine hundred miles offshore, the command was given on the Hornet: "Army personnel, man your planes." It was April 18, 1942. They were eight hundred miles away from land, four hundred miles further offshore than originally planned for launching.

The planes would not be returning to the carrier. They would have to land in China and elude the Japanese occupation forces there. It was a great risk for Doolittle's raiders. But the men were willing to take the risk in order to strike a demoralizing blow to the Japanese homeland.

<snip>

Captured!
DeShazer landed hard in a Chinese graveyard, breaking some ribs. He was alone. After walking for several hours, he was taken prisoner by ten Japanese soldiers. After marching to a Japanese field camp, DeShazer was questioned endlessly. He told them nothing.

(Only much later did he learn that of the sixteen planes, one bomber diverted to Russia where the crew was interned; eleven crews bailed out, and four crash-landed.)

Four other American prisoners and DeShazer were flown to Nanjing (Nanking), China, to a prison camp. There was more interrogation before a judge. Finally, the judge said in English, "In Japan it is a great honor for a judge to cut off a prisoner's head. Tomorrow at sunrise, I will have the honor of cutting off your head."

The next morning, without breakfast, blindfolded and handcuffed, DeShazer was removed from his cell. When his blindfold was removed, the prisoner saw a camera instead of a sword. Instead of executing him, the Japanese put DeShazer and seven other flyers on another plane. After being airborne for hours, the bombardier peeked through his blind-fold in time to see Mount Fuji.

In Tokyo, DeShazer and the other captives awaited trial.

Their captors tortured them, trying to get information. They put DeShazer on his knees and beat him. They handcuffed one prisoner, Lt. Nielsen, hanging him for eight hours by his hands on a peg, his toes barely touching the floor while others were stretched out on boards for hours. The Japanese strapped others to chairs and beat them. They put towels over their faces and had water poured into their noses and mouths until they nearly drowned.

-----

Now, read on, friend.

link is here: http://www.christianitytoday.com/tc/7r6/7r6034.html

[Wickerman]

3. Now I think I know where you are going with this stuff tonight

and I think I agree.

[Joe for Clark]

6. Guess you know more than I.

[Wickerman]

8. me

you know more than me. Oh, yeah, well, in that case I guess you do. Know more than me.

[Joe for Clark]

12. Oh, I don't know -

I know what I know - I don't want to know.

I remember the nightmares - no one should know that!!!

Joe

[Monkeyman]

13. Amen Brother keep ranting it helps (Some Times)

[Joe for Clark]

15. God I hope so.

[Monkeyman]

16. If it Don't Yell At Me Bro

Dam I wish I could be right there but all I have is this dam computer

[Joe for Clark]

18. Don't.

I am still at the- how could I have done this differently stage -

SO don't.

Joe

[melody]

5. My uncle died from Japanese shelling during WWII

I don't blame the Japanese any more than I blame my neighbor for the crap going on in Washington right now.

[Redstone]

7. Joe, slow down. Listen to me, because I've been where you are. Let it go for tonight.

There's another day tomorrow.

Let this day go; let it be done. Please.

Redstone

[Joe for Clark]

11. You are rationale -

My kid is going to die - I lose that ability.

Joe

[Monkeyman]

14. Joe Brother don't please think about that

You Need Me or Redstone we are here Bro.

[Redstone]

17. But he's not dead now. Let it go for tonight, I'm BEGGING you. Do it for your son, OK?

If he does NOT get killed, he's going to need Dad to explain things to him when he gets home. Your son needs you to pull it together. You owe that to him as a father, God damn it.

Enough is fucking enough. YOU are the father; YOU are the man. YOU are the one who MUST be strong. As am I, and as is Monkeyman, and as is TominTib.

We get to live with this shit, whether we asked for it or not. And sometimes we need to suck it up and put on a brave face, whether we're actually brave or not. Tough darts, that is, but it's our lot in life. Did we ask for it? No. Did we get it anyway? Yeah, we did. And there it is.

Go the fuck to bed, would you, and we'll reconvene this tomorrow?

I was going to take a couple of days off DU to decompress, but I'll be here tomorrow to see how you're doing. And so, I bet, will Monkeyman.

But for tonight, we have your back, so go and sleep. Let this day be done. Please.

Redstone

[Monkeyman]

19. Please Joe Hear Us We Got It Tonight

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Joe let it go right now

please, or if you need to talk, I'm back at home

Call me