Letting the screaming child scream

[thunder rising]

I'm not a parent, but I have heard the saying that sometimes you just have to let the child exhaust him or her self. And, I have to believe that at some point every parent comes to that conclusion. They simply cannot continue to encourage the behavior by acquiescing to every whim.

The worse is the public tantrum. You know, the one in the supermarket where the child plops down on the floor and assaults the ears of every living creature for miles. However, this time the parent does not hurry to comfort. This time the coldness of the floor is allowed to sink in. This time the isolation is allowed to be felt. A minute passes as slowly as though it's seconds are counted on calendar pages. Then it stops. And, all heaven breathes a sigh of relief. After a few seconds of quite the child gets up and joins the parent. You almost expect the child to wave to the crowd and declare "I'm good".

You know where this is going. The wingers are these children that have been coddled for since birth due to their numbers. They have bullied minorities inside the country and actively oppressed the countries with deadly force where those peoples have originated. They are throwing public tantrums. Their screams have been incoherent to the point of delusion and they indeed assault the ears of every rational human being on the planet.

This time is different. This time nobody ran to them to pick them up and coo in there ears. And now, finally, the screams are diminishing.

This is the style of our President. For as painful as it is for us, those that elected him, to watch and listen to, he has returned every rant with an invitation back to the table. For to do otherwise, will surely keep the pendulum swinging.

I wish I had that picture of Barack pointing out to us with the caption "Chill the @#$ out, I've got this."

[havocmom]

1. With most efforts at behavior modification, the unwanted behavior increases for a time

The tantrum throwers seem to think: 'Perhaps you didn't notice my outrage, since you did not rush in and respond the usual way!' And they up the ante, for a while.

The President is doing great against the counterproductive and manipulative tactics of the patsies for the Right.

[Skidmore]

2. I do sincerely hope that, given some of your verbage, you are not

castigating Boomers as a whole for the ugly hatred of these people. I look at those crowds and I see bigots of several generations in them. Bigotry and hatred are not limited to just one generation. BTW, I do agree with your analysis otherwise.

[lunatica]

3. Here is the photo you want. Save it

[thunder rising]

9. This is IT! Thanks. Not just save it I put it up as my background.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. "I'm not a parent ..."

Tantrums? Sure, ignore them. But tantrums are cognitively directed behavior. The child decides to blow off steam, so to speak. S/he'll learn to cry in private when s/he needs to do so.

Infants? NEVER ignore them. When they are old enough to tell their fanny from their elbow, slowly wean them up to a few minutes, 5-10, depending on the child. NEVER let a baby "exhaust" itself in crying for a long period.

Babies cry for biological reasons -- not to piss adults off.

Adults? Never reinforce tantrums, except if you are online and are into that kind of thing.

:evilgrin:

--d!
On Edit: typo, originally "5-20" minutes.

[patrice]

13. And the fact is that quite a bit of what we are dealing with here are people so new to discourse and

so un-informed and so politically and socially naive as to be, for all intents and purposes, babies.

[smoogatz]

20. I'm pretty sure it was a metaphor. n/t

[Robb]

5. Obama has the problem that he's adopted a child not raised well to begin wtih.

Studies have shown that infants who are attended to quickly when they cry at a very early age -- when it's the only thing they know to do when something's wrong -- cry less as they grow older. It's suspected to be because they have grown to trust that their real needs will be met quickly by the parent. :)

[Dogmudgeon]

6. Robb: NOT a dingbat

:thumbsup:

--d!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

17. I agree and it worked with both of my kids.

[Gman2]

7. That is NOT how you handle children. If a child acts up in public

Yopu take them outside, and you tell them that any of that will result in them not being allowed in public. They will not eat in restaurants. Their choice.

Fast forward to the Repubs. They wail and moan, and low and behold, the parents coddle them, and encourage them to scream and pout. They give them all hte airtime they want. In fact, the harsher and more disruptive the outburst, the more attention is paid. In fact, those worst offenders brag about all the toys that were sent to them, when they acted out. ANd how this nukular outburst really brought christmas.

The SHIT that substitutes for old time debate, has morphed into OK, now your turn to lie. And noone will challenge you, even if it is stupid.

[seabeyond]

12. i guess you know your child, why they are doing, if a norm or not and what is needed. but society

and posters like you may not allow a parent to truly do what is needed for the child, but not do cause society, or people that think like you (lol) make us have to do what will benefit you and not the child

just the world we live in

two children, two different personalities and characters, two different ways of handling.

one child had such a built up store of energy he needed a way to get it out and the easiers ways were not an option for him. i had to figure out what HE needed to transition to peace. it wasnt going to be the way the WORLD wanted him to transition. so sorry.... he isnt what the world demands.

[Gman2]

16. Nope. If all you have is one incident to parent with, then yes.

Parenting is an ongoing project. Treating each incident as a separate thing, is wrong. You have all of the past, and all of NOW. AND the future. When they stay home, and you DRILL into them that this is for that outburst, they WILL learn.

If we said that if you lie, or obfuscate, or avoid and redirect, you will not be interviewed, Repubs would stop acting insane. Ratigan is doing just that, and the repubs are squeeling. You arent supposed to challenge my filthy lying! You are a biased interviewer.

[seabeyond]

27. ah, you miss the point in your narrow view. now, i am not suggestiong

EVER giving into a tantrum at any age. i am saying children, little ones, are all unique and handle things uniquely. one size does not fit all. and age does matter.

for you to not even distinguish between age, in this made up child we are talking about is case in point, of not looking beyond.

do not assume, in these two posts, that you havbe a handle on my position. cause ineviditably you wil be incorrect. i have not supplied enough info.

but that is another point that i am making, that you would do that off just one post adn assume you knew what i was talking about.

[patrice]

15. Boy howdy!! 1+~~~ "The SHIT that substitutes for old time debate, has morphed into OK, now your

turn to

LIE

That's why the serious debaters, on both sides, have left the field.

Maybe Alan Grayson will open the door just wide enough to help them find their public voices.

[KittyWampus]

25. I agree with the point Gman2 makes here. The Far Right Screamers are organized by paid-for corporate

shills and get too much attention and air time.

They are not marginalized nor called out for the stupid nonsense they espouse.

[seabeyond]

8. what a fuckin excellent post. bah ha... i love. hey, that child, all the emotions within

that they cannot put in its place. you are right, there is a point, when the only way, is child to get that emotion out thru a tantrum. lol.

i love your attitude.

[patrice]

10. It is well for us to remember that this IS true of SOME, perhaps even a significant amount of

what we are seeing.

But deliberate incitement is also going on, so that child is not sitting by itself there on the floor. There are these greedy selfish mean ignorant sons and daughters of bitches rewarding them for the damage that they do. If it isn't already, after a certain point that marks the end of a "critical period", the child will be totally lost to Us.

[msongs]

11. lol that pic u love so much seems to show obama having his own tantrum nt

[thunder rising]

14. Actually, it would be the response to a person trying to insert themselves into the situation

[patrice]

19. wow . . . . . . . ahem, of course, that depends upon how you look at it.

Looks like leadership to me.

Perhaps your problem is those four letters F, U, C, and K?

[calimary]

18. I am a parent. We had a therapist friend who recommended what we came to refer to as

"the position."

Your kid acting out? Throwing a tantrum in public? Let them blow themselves out? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!!

What I'd do, and indeed did, was first and foremost - REMOVE THE LITTLE TANTRUM-THROWER FROM HIS/HER CENTER STAGE. This is above all a demand for attention. Undeserved attention. A reward for bad behavior. You CAN'T reinforce that. Which brings me to "the position."

Having gently but firmly escorted our son (usually it was him throwing hissy-fits like this, not our daughter) OUTSIDE. OUT. Away from center stage. Once off to the side or out of the room, I gently but firmly sat him down on the floor with me. I'd sit with my back against a wall, and crosslegged. I'd envelope him inside my crossed legs - with his back to me and him seated, facing outward inside this little cocoon I'd turned myself into, physically. Like I'm the taco shell and he's the meat. Wrapped my arms gently around him completely, from behind, so he'd be completely encased. If he wriggled too hard, I'd maneuver my legs over his to keep him from kicking and flapping. NEVER TIGHT!!!!! NEVER!!! You don't want to squeeze. You want to contain them. You just want to impede crazed, eratic movement and basically keep them from hurting themselves. You restrain them gently and softly and yes, lovingly. And while they're still frenzied and straining against you and thrashing around with all their little might, you bend in over them and whisper in their ear to calm down. And of course, because you're in their ear - NEVER yell. NEVER loud. And you keep it up relentlessly as long as they do, until you outlast them. And all the while, you're keeping them safe and contained and enveloped in your own soft, gentle, steady arms and lap and legs if needed. It's kind of zen. No force, no hitting, no squeezing, no physical aggression. Rather, it's passive containment and control. Eventually they wear out and give up and become quiet. And the instant they've released and relaxed, so do you. Instant response. Instant checking of the behavior. Instant reinforcement.

It worked great! Takes some time, though and you have to be patient. Sometimes they go on and on and on and you think you're gonna be sitting out there FOREVER in that cold, empty side room or hallway or out on the sidewalk outside the Mommy & Me place before they start simmering down. But be firm and consistent, and hold your ground, and they'll give up long before you do. It's a pain in the ass, a hassle for you, and it really only works when they're little. But that's when you need it - when they're small enough that you can benignly overpower them and contain them. That's when THEY need it, too, when their bad behavior is checkable - EARLY-ON. The idea is - by the time they're too big for you to handle this kind of physical discipline, they've long since learned its lesson.

My husband and I were both quite amazed at the way this worked. The kids hated it. But dammit, it worked. It helped. And it did check that shitty behavior. It taught my kids not to throw tantrums in public - or anywhere for that matter. Because it wouldn't get them the payoff they had in mind. But I don't think you ever should just let them go and run out their own clocks in THEIR own time if they're throwing tantrums like this. The only time that's ever a good idea is when they're in their rooms crying incessantly because they don't want to go to bed and you finally have to leave the room and shut the door behind you and close them, and let them cry themselves to sleep (which was heartbreakingly difficult for both my husband and me, 'cause you wanna go to them and grab them up and hold them forever, but that doesn't teach them about sleeping in their own beds by themselves like they're gonna have to do all through the rest of their big boy/big girl lives. But that's different than throwing a tantrum in public.

[patrice]

21. Thank you.

[thunder rising]

22. Disclaimer: I am not a parent ... my kids would be spoiled rotten. Just like my two sisters did

[calimary]

26. Well, maybe I should just put you in "the position" LOL!!!

Hey, we got this from a therapist whose advice we liked. She was NOT into "tough love." She thought you could love and nurture even while disciplining. In an odd way, sometimes I actually enjoyed "the position." It allowed me to downshift away from risking that the tantrum-throwing kid would actually frustrate me too much or, heaven forbid, make me mad. And in a crazy way, it sometimes morphed into cuddling. After all - you basically have the kid in your lap with your arms around him/her. Whatza mother to do?!

:silly:

[patrice]

28. I am and I raised mine within the Midwestern version of a Liberal paradigm.

My daughter showed signs of being a "type A" before she was 2 years old, so, not only due to the fact that I am a "child of the '60s", I had to learn how to live with her without fighting "to the death" over everything. I learned to use force only for the most important things, but perhaps that worked at least partly because all of it happened within the parameters of a huge extended family and she was "socialized" early with peers who were living almost precisely the same value system. Anyway, there weren't many rules in our house and though there were things that other parents would have freaked out about (I could never get her to come in on curfew when she was a teenager), she never gave us enough cause to start making rules. She now runs her own very stable business from her own home and has been doing so for over 10 years, got through the bursting of the dotcom bubble and everything. Has saved considerably more than 20% and is ready to buy her first home now. All with little or no $$$$$ help from her significant other. So, there IS something to be said for a will that is allowed to flourish, though I admit that my only instinct throughout her childhood was that she should be as Free as possible; I didn't really consciously understand much more than that.

[Gman2]

23. OK, but how am I going to wrap my arms around those fatasses?

[thunder rising]

24. fatasses with guns yet.