Eight years on, his loss still hurts many of us who celebrate motor sports

[DainBramaged]

He was just one of 'us'. He wasn't a Harvard educated business major who stumbled on NASCAR as a way to earn a living, he was regular folk and a high school dropout. He earned in excess of $50 million a year in total earnings not only while he lived but after he passed on because of the simple love fans have for the number 3. But that money wasn't real important to him during his life. As the current NASCAR season winds down it just isn't the same anymore. He should have had the chance to retire gracefully, but at least his death was the catalyst in making the sport safer. Other than Tony Stewart, there is no other driver in NASCAR today (IMHO) that seems to have the hunger to win he had.



Just wanted to remember. I know DU isn't NASCAR friendly. But I just wanted to remember.

[Neecy]

1. Hey, if you like NASCAR, that's cool

And that was a nice remembrance.

[mth44sc]

2. I'm NASCAR friendly

and while my driver support was directed elsewhere - I actually started to like the ol' cuss before it all ended so badly. Thanks for posting this.

[Hardrada]

3. He deserves remembrance and his loss was certainly felt

by many I know.

[tyedyeto]

4. For the turn left and crash crowd

Sorry but the only Nascar fans I have known were all Repugs.

[DainBramaged]

5. ................

[realisticphish]

6. you've just met some right here

my roommate is a die-hard Gordon fan, and is as lefty as anyone.

[islandmkl]

7. broaden your horizons...

or continue to mock that which you don't know about...

i would suggest you strain your parameters, take your ass to Daytona (or better, yet...Talladega), go stand down by the 1st turn, up against the wall (or however close they will let you, liability and all that), and you report back to us how it is all 'turn left and crash'...

yeah, 200 mph...EVERYBODY can drive that fast if all they ever do is turn left...oh, yeah...they're about 6 inches (maybe) apart...

[realisticphish]

12. i think it's amazing that they don't crash MORE

...though at talladega, they DO crash every other lap

[mth44sc]

17. cept for that one dega race when

there was not a single caution...

[OhioBlue]

25. and Mark Martin won. n/t

[CherokeeDem]

10. Well...

now you know some who aren't. In fact, I know a lot of Dems who are also NASCAR fans. I have been a NASCAR fan about as long as I have been a Democrat, all my life. I was not a Dale Earnhardt fan, I was a Rusty Wallace fan but I respected Earnhardt and his skill. Believe me, car racing is more than left turns and crashing. In fact, most race fans don't want to see crashes, a crash is what killed Dale Earnhardt. We don't like losing our favorites or the drivers we don't like either.

The good thing about the Democratic party is that we are truly very diverse. Now if someone could just explain soccer to me (Steelers fan here!).

[Scout]

71. "most race fans don't want to see crashes, a crash is what killed Dale Earnhardt"

yup, right on.

i like to watch the replays of the crashes AFTER i know the driver wasn't hurt ... then it's spectacular to watch a horrid crash and be amazed that thank goddess the driver wasn't hurt.

the crashes where someone died or was seriously injured, no, i don't like to watch replays of those. and thing with Dale's crash, it didn't even look like he hit that hard or that it was that bad a crash :cry:

[alfredo]

88. Wrecks break the action. The COT is a much sturdier car and can survive

a whack against the wall much better than the old cars.

[bigwillq]

11. I know plenty of Nascar fans

who are very, very liberal.

[RB TexLa]

22. I'm not the biggest fan but I do enjoy it and keep up with it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Boy another stereotype

by the way we are, well my hubby (and believe it or not the cockatiel) far more than me...

But we enjoy a good race. The parrot will just park on the tennis shoes and watch... and god help them on yellow flags or going to change tires... you will not get him to shut up.

Did I mention we are liberals... dyed in the wool?

[The Straight Story]

72. is that like saying the only people of color someone grew up knowing were criminals

therefore all the rest must be too?

[bvar22]

82. You need to get out more often.

Long term NASCAR fan and long term Democrat here.

This thread is a Memorial thread.
People with any manners would respect that.

[DainBramaged]

153. The piss-ants here don't respect anything

and there are a multitude of them, but I have thick skin and a trusty ignore button, sorta like a kill switch. As with the hatred for Unions and Domestic autos, the effete here look down on NASCAR while lecturing US on decorum and what heroes and men are to THEM and should be to us.


I have two words for those folks, and they ain't Merry Christmas.




:hi:

[Renew Deal]

90. You must not know that many people.

And you don't know me.

[liberalhistorian]

118. Excuse me, but there are many of us

NASCAR fans who are NOT repubs. And not everything has to be about politics, you know.

[NoSheep]

127. How many people do you know? I live in a diverse community. You can't

peg the fans...

[KamaAina]

8. Romeo the cat agrees

[DainBramaged]

9. Romeo is BEAUTIFUL even without the #3

:hi:

[CherokeeDem]

14. How cool is that cat!!!

What a hunk and that 3 is amazing!

[Arugula Latte]

94. I heart Romeo!

:loveya:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Hey, he was worth tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars.

But at least he wasn't educated.

[Saboburns]

15. I'm a fan and I'm as Liberal as they come.

I go to a race every year, and have since 1992, used to tent, now I have a camper.

It's a three day tailgate party and the couple hundred thousand fans are incredible, and incredibly well mannered. Just about everybody drinks alcohol and I've yet to see a fight. Or argument for that matter. It's quite a show in person.

Anyway, I was a Rusty fan. The Rusty/Dale battle was one of the all time great rivalries.

And you're correct, NASCAR has never been the same since the Death of Dale Earnhardt. Even though I didn't pull for him, he has my utmost respect.

North Carolina, home of NASCAR went blue for Barack Obama!!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. He was a big supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights also.

[RB TexLa]

23. So are many Democrats

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. Yep.

[armyowalgreens]

18. I'm not understanding the glorification of non-education.

[Fumesucker]

27. There's a hell of a lot to know to be a good race car driver ..

I'm not a particular fan of NASCAR, I'm really more of a road race/drag race/motorcycle type of guy but even relatively low level racers have to know a lot of physics in an intimate and immediate way to be successful. Reynolds numbers, coefficient of friction, weight transfer, Bernoulli effect, Coanda effect, thermodynamics and a whole host of other things. A good racer also has be able to communicate his perceptions of what his vehicle is doing to his team members so they can effectively adjust the racer for maximum performance in the desired characteristics which can vary from moment to moment during a race.

Some of it is the sort of thing you can pick up in a classroom, a good bit of it really isn't. Education covers a lot more than just what you can learn in a classroom.

NASCAR racers are simultaneously rather crude and highly developed, a NASCAR engine has a BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) within about a single percentage point of that of a Formula 1 engine, the most highly developed racing engines on the planet and yet the NASCAR engine is built essentially to the same plan as the engine in a 1955 Chevy, a pushrod V8 with a single four barrel carburetor, practically stone age by Formula 1 standards.

[EOTE]

68. Regarding BMEP.

I'm a bit of a gear head, but had to look up BMEP in order to get a better idea of what it is. I know that BMEP is independent of an engine's displacement, so it's pretty much just a measure of an engine's work output and has nothing to do with specific output. As I recall though, most F1 engines are in the 700+ hp range while NASCAR engines AFAIK are around 600hp. Considering that NASCAR engines have far greater displacement than F1 engines, is that really that great of a technical achievement? Especially in a time when Chevy has introduced an OHV V8 with no forced induction which makes over 500hp in a car that can be purchased by the masses? I have nothing against NASCAR, but it seems to me that all the real technology is found in F1.

[Fumesucker]

75. BMEP is related to torque per unit of displacement..

F1 engines put out more horsepower per cubic inch but they also turn a lot faster than a NASCAR engine.. Displacement for displacement though a NASCAR engine puts out very nearly the same torque as a F1 engine but is limited by (mostly) the valve train as to rpm.

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/bmep_performance_yardstick.htm

For comparison purposes, let's look at what is commonly believed to be the very pinnacle of engine performance: Formula-1 (Grand Prix).

An F1 engine is purpose-built and essentially unrestricted. For 2006, the rules required a 90° V8 engine of 2.4 liters displacement (146.4 CID) with a maximum bore of 98mm (3.858) and a required bore spacing of 106.5 mm (4.193). The resulting stroke to achieve 2.4 liters is 39.75 mm (1.565) and is implemented with a 180° crankshaft. The typical rod length is approximately 4.016 (102 mm), for a Rod/Stroke ratio of about 2.57. These engines are typically a 4-valve-per cylinder layout with two overhead cams per bank, and pneumatic valvesprings. In addition to the few restrictions stated above, there are the following additional restrictions: (a) no beryllium compounds, (b) no MMC pistons, (c) no variable-length intake pipes, (d) one injector per cylinder, and (e) the requirement that one engine last for two race weekends.

At the end of the 2006 season, most of these F1 engines ran up to 20,000 RPM in a race, and made in the vicinity of 750 HP. One engine for which I have the figures made 755 BHP at an astonishing 19,250 RPM. At a peak power of 755 HP, the torque is 206 lb-ft and peak-power BMEP would be 212 psi. (14.63 bar). Peak torque of 214 lb-ft occurred at 17,000 RPM for a BMEP of 220 psi (15.18 bar). There can be no argument that 212 psi at 19,250 RPM is truly amazing.

However, let's look at some astounding domestic technology. The 2006 Nextel Cup engine is a severely-restricted powerplant, being derived from production components. It uses a production-based cast-iron 90° V8 block and 90° steel crankshaft, with a maximum displacement of 358 CID (5.87 liters). A typical configuration has a 4.185" bore with a 3.25" stroke and a 6.20" conrod (R/S = 1.91). Cylinder heads are similarly production-based, limited to two valves per cylinder, but highly developed. The valves are operated by a single, engineblock-mounted, flat-tappet camshaft (that's right, still no rollers as of 2007) and a pushrod / rocker-arm / coil-spring valvetrain. It is further hobbled by the requirement for a single four-barrel carburetor. Electronically-controlled ignition is not allowed, and there are minimum weight requirements for the conrods and pistons.

How does it perform? At the end of the 2006 season, the engines were producing in the neighborhood of 825 HP at 9000 RPM (and could produce more at 10,000 RPM, but engine RPM has been restricted by means of a rule limiting the final drive ratio at each venue). 825 HP at 9000 RPM requires 481 lb-ft of torque, for a peak-power BMEP of nearly 203 PSI (14.0 bar). Peak torque was typically about 520 lb-ft at 7500 RPM, for a peak BMEP of over 219 psi (15.1 bar).

THAT is truly astonishing. Compare the F1 engine figures to the Cup engine figures for a better grip on just how clever these Cup engine guys are.

[EOTE]

81. I still don't see why this is an important benchmark.

There are a lot of "old school" OHV engines still being made today, mostly by GM. These engines are ideal for trucks because of their low end torque characteristics. And even comparing a modern OHV engine to a modern OHC engine, displacement per displacement, they tend to have the same or very similar torque, with OHV engines typically even excelling at the low end. The big advantage that OHC engines typically have is in top end horsepower because they tend to not run out of breath as soon as their OHV brothers and therefore make more power on the top end. That's a big reason why I've never seen the inherent superiority of OHC engine for non-sports cars as the extra power they put out is typically only seen if you often bring your engine close to redline.

GM's LS7 small block puts out similar peak torque as typical NASCAR engines nowaday and it does it in a road engine. Granted, the LS7 is a little larger, but not all that much. When it comes to torque, it seems that the old hot-rodder's maxim of "there's no replacement for displacement" applies. Well, maybe displacement and forced induction. Even comparing an F1 V8 to a Honda/Acura I4 of the same displacement (such as in the TSX), you'll see that the torque advantage isn't that great. About 170 lb/ft in terms of the Honda compared to 214 in the case of the F1 vehicle.

It seems to me that considering these vehicles don't operate in the typical rev range associated with passenger cars, that BMEP doesn't mean all that much at all. Most F1 engines spend the great bulk of their time above 10K RPM and most NASCAR drivers spend their time driving close to 9K or so. So in either case, each car has fully sufficient torque, it's the HP that they put out which is truly impressive. And in terms of HP, F1 cars have about 3 times the specific output as NASCAR engines. I think typically that so long as an engine has sufficient torque, it's HP which wins races.

[Fumesucker]

86. BMEP is a mark of cylinder filling/evacuation and combustion efficiency..

The better you fill/evacuate the cylinder and the more completely you burn the mixture then the higher the BMEP in general.

It shows that the cylinder filling and combustion efficiency of the NASCAR engine is very, very close to that of the F1 engine. That's really quite remarkable given the difference in the base technology of the two engines and an indication of how highly developed the "stone axe" technology of the NASCAR engine really is.

Torque delivery is also important to winning races, if the engine's powerband is so narrow that when you shift gears you fall out of the powerband then there are times when a lower hp engine with a wider powerband will actually give you more acceleration through the gears.

Also with manual transmissions keeping down the number of shifts you have to make can also aid acceleration and/or lap times, wider powerbands lead to decreased need for shifting.

The peak torque of the LS7 is made at a considerably lower rpm than the NASCAR engine and with a considerably more high tech induction and fuel system, OHC, computerized multiport FI, four valves per cylinder versus a pushrod, single carbureted two valve engine. In technological terms the LS7 is closer to the F1 engine than the NASCAR one.

[EOTE]

91. A few corrections.

I understand that torque delivery can be very important to winning races. What I'm noting though is that the torque of almost any normally aspirated engine is pretty much directly linked to its displacement. As I noted before, the torque to displacement ratio of F1 and NASCAR engines isn't much above that of typical passenger car engines made today. But the specific output (HP to displacement) is typically higher for NASCAR and a LOT higher for F1 engines. There are even commercially made engines today like that of the Honda S2000 that have almost the same specific output as NASCAR engines while NO normally aspirated passenger car engine comes close to the specific output of an F1 engine. This is why I don't think that the BMEP of either NASCAR or F1 engines is all that impressive today. It's the specific output of these engines which is impressive. And in that regard, the F1 engines truly excel.

And with regard to the LS7, of course peak torque is going to come on lower (I'd consider that to be a good thing). But it HAS to come on lower because the engine makes so much less HP (but barely any less torque). And the LS7 has hardly any of those things you mentioned. Of course it has an electronic fuel injection system, I can't think of any carbureted cars remaining today. However, the LS7 is much like the small blocks of old in that it's an overhead valve, two valve per cylinder design. Don't get me wrong, the LS series of V8s is very advanced and are some of the best engines around. But they resemble today's NASCAR engines far more than they resemble any F1 engine today.

[Fumesucker]

96. Oops on the LS7 engine configuration, I haven't paid much attention in the last few years..

Apparently I was confusing it with something else, the LT5 ZR1, my mistake.

But according to this link the BMEP of an LS7 427 is 151 at HP peak.

http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_0907_corsa_performance_exhaust_mufflers/winston_cup_v_8.html



Now if the BMEP of an LS7, which is a fairly highly developed performance engine, is 151 then it seems that most passenger cars are going to be somewhat below that.

Specific output is a lot easier (relatively) to obtain through increasing rpm than it is through increasing torque (or BMEP) in a naturally aspirated engine (short of nitrous of course). That's why F1 engines (and the S2000) engine have such high specific output, they spin at ungodly rpms..

[EOTE]

98. Somewhat, but not much at all.

As a simple comparison, let's take Nissan/Infinity's corporate 3.5L V6. At half the displacement of the LS7, it actually makes more than half the torque, in some applications making more than 270lb/ft. And I was going by torque peak rather than HP peak. Taking Nissan's VQ35 engine again as an example, it can make 270lb/ft of torque from 213 CID which comes out to 1.26lb/ft of torque per cubic inch (I believe their new 3.7 has an even higher torque to displacement ratio). With today's 358 CID NASCAR engines making around 520lb/ft per that link you provided, they make 1.45lb/ft of torque per cubic inch. That's only 15% higher than a passenger car engine.

However, when it comes to specific output, that's where these engines really shine. And there's a good reason (aside from cost) as to why that is. In most passenger cars, you don't want to have to rev the crap out of your engines to get them to perform. Not only would cabin noise be ridiculous, but the engines would get horrible fuel economy. That's why cars built for the masses have lots of midrange power and trail off towards redline (with the exception of high strung Honda engines and high performance Italians). So the torque per displacement of NA car engines just doesn't seem to vary all that much. It's the specific output of NASCAR (around 110 or so HP per liter) and F1 engines (more than 300 HP per liter) which really separates them from their consumer counterparts. And yes, F1 engines spin at ungodly RPMs. They're very lightweight, so they've got all the torque they need. They're so insanely fast because of their blistering redlines.

[Fumesucker]

110. The Infiniti example gives you a BMEP of 191..

And that is definitely a high tech engine, far closer than to the F1 than the NASCAR..

Which is why the NASCAR BMEP is such an achievement.

Oh, and a Honda NSR 500 road racing GP motorcycle made about 190 hp for 1/2 liter which works out to 380 hp/liter..

[EOTE]

120. I guess I expect a lot when you can throw a ton of money at something.

When I calculate BMEP for the LS7 by the following formula (150.8 x TORQUE (lb-ft) / DISPLACEMENT), I get 169.5, as you noted, the VQ35 is around 191 (in an engine you can pick up in a Nissan Altima for the mid 20s). These numbers are both for engines that are VERY drivable around town and they seem rather close to NASCAR numbers. When designing an engine for all out power, drivability isn't so much a concern. If people were solely concerned with maximum power and not drivability, I'd imagine more passenger cars would have similar BMEP ratings as NASCAR vehicles.

I see drag racers working all motor and still getting 2 hp or more per cube and similar torque. And these are similar small blocks to what NASCAR is using. To me, it seems that a lot of NASCAR engines are similar to drag racing engines, just that they're meant to run at higher speeds and for a far longer time. That's why I'm so amazed at today's F1 engines, they do things no average hot-rodder can do. While they might exist, I've never seen a heavily modified small block V8 making 300+hp/liter. Without forced induction, torque is almost always a function of displacement. Horsepower, not so much. I guess we're just reaching the limits as to what can be done with carbureted OHV engines. The latest introduction in terms of making additional power from an OHV was vario-cam from Chrysler which allows forms of variable valve timing using a single cam. But if new technologies are so slow to become adopted in NASCAR, I have a hard time getting exciting about the development process.

[Fumesucker]

125. BMEP increases come hard..

Lots of development time on the flowbench and the dyno and a great deal of subtle tweaking in the combustion chamber.

Pro Stock drag racers run around 2.5 hp/ci which works out to about 150 hp/liter for a pushrod two valve engine, you really can't spin such an engine hard enough to get a great deal more specific output.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Stock

And variable valve timing is old hat, I built a 400 small block Chevy in 1980 that had Rhoads lifters which included variable valve timing. Took a pretty lumpy cam and made it sound almost stock, increased the vacuum at idle and gave it more bottom end torque too, didn't seem to hurt the top end either, the car it was in would dissolve the rear tires if you stomped the loud pedal.

http://www.rhoadslifters.com/

[EOTE]

128. How do you integrate VVT into a single, solid cam?

Because both intake and exhaust lobes move in conjunction with each other, how could you advance or retard intake timing without also advancing or retarding exhaust timing which could be extremely bad or fatal to the engine? I'm looking at those lifters and it looks like they're not solid so perhaps at low speed they remain open longer and they snap quicker at high speeds? If so, that seems like a much more simple and elegant solution than vario-cam. Weird to see so-called "new" technology go back that far.

[Fumesucker]

131. They're hydraulic with a programmed "bleed down"..

At low rpm they cut valve timing some and maybe lift a bit, at high rpm they essentially act like any other hydraulic lifter.

A little Googling shows that almost everyone who has tried them says they work as advertised, I know they did for me.

It's interesting that improving low lift valve flow acts the same at high rpm as increasing valve timing but without hurting low rpm performance, it took me a while to figure out why that was so.

I'm not into the internal combustion engine thing any more really, my new interests lean more toward electric vehicles, specifically electric assisted bicycles. There are technological developments on the horizon that will revolutionize EV's.

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html

And F1 is going to a mandatory hybrid setup in a few years..

[CRF450]

132. Wasent their an engine config that GM was working on....

That had two camshafts inside the block? I remember seeing it several years ago, it was suppose to let the OHV engine utilize 3 valves per cylinder, kinda like the Ford 4.6 3-valve SOHC, minus the SOHC so it would remain lightweight and compact like OHV engines are.

[Fumesucker]

134. Hadn't heard of that..

I don't see why forked rocker arms couldn't be used for three valve cam-in-block engine.. I've had a couple of motorcycles with forked rocker arms, specifically a 1985 Honda V4 Interceptor 700.

Thing sounded remarkably like a V8 engine..

[EOTE]

136. Yeah, GM was working on a twin cam OHV engine.

One cam for intake, one for exhaust and they would ideally be able to operate independently. I don't know what happened to that concept, but Chrysler's cam-in-cam (not Variocam as I said before) now used in the current-gen Viper operates somewhat similarly. Instead of two cams, it remains a single cam in the center of the block, however, the cam is actually composed of a cam within a cam. So you can advance or retard exhaust timing relative to intake by a few degrees. It didn't seem to effect the performance of the Viper's V10 by all that much, but it was already an extremely powerful and humongous engine. Perhaps it did a bit to increase fuel economy, I can't say.

[EOTE]

133. How interesting.

I wonder why technology like that never worked its way into passenger cars. You take a look at all the extremely complex routes that companies like Honda, Toyota and BMW went through to integrate VVT in various incarnations into their cars while this technology has existed for decades. Of course, it doesn't seem to be quite as effective as the infinitely variable intake and exhaust systems out there, but it seems to work far more simply and elegantly.

[Fumesucker]

135. It's a bit noisy..

No problem for a hot rodder but they sound sort of like solid lifters on an OHV engine.. Clikety, click.

That could probably be overcome though with sufficient development work.

Aluminum valve covers help quite a bit, especially if you put some damping material inside.

Most American V8 engines have stamped steel covers from the factory, or did when I was playing with this stuff.

[Mopar151]

170. The Crane (bleed-down)lifters don't click

Like the Rhoads. Have 'em in my truck, truly quiet, with stock tin covers. (and a big Crane HMV 278 "thunderstick")

[Fumesucker]

171. Apparently I'm prescient..

I'd never heard of the Crane Fast Bleed lifters, but I mentioned that the noise could probably be overcome with development work.

So, how do you like the lifters on your Thunderstick?

[Mopar151]

173. Dandy!

With the big cam, I can still get a fairly smooth idle, which is a necessity while manuvering a trailer with a "granny gear" transmission.

[DainBramaged]

179. Crane cams went under last April, a victim of bad management and the recession

Performance industry icon Crane Cams has reopened under the new ownership of S&S Cycle, and is actively engaged in manufacturing and sales operations of its ignition and motorcycle lines. The company, founded by Harvey J. Crane in 1953, is newly housed in a facility at 1640 Mason Ave. in Daytona Beach, and a number of long-term Crane employees have joined the revitalized company.

S&S Cycle acquired Crane’s intellectual properties, patents, trademarks, camshaft masters, inventory and some equipment in April 2009. S&S is best known for its broad line of components for V-Twin motorcycle applications. The 50-year-old company boasts extensive R&D and manufacturing capabilities, including a complete in-house 50-state Emissions Certification Lab.

Crane Product Manager Terry Johnson, a 12-year vet, said, “We have already ramped up production of the motorcycle valve train and ignition products, as well as the automotive ignition line. Many of the top NASCAR teams use Crane ignition products, so maintaining continuity for these customers is top priority.”

Production of automotive valve train components may take longer. Chase Knight, who has over 40 years of Crane experience, has resumed his role as Valve Train Product Manager. According to Knight, “While we know the market is very hungry for our cam and valve train product lines, we want to make sure the parts we ship exceed the quality and performance expectations of our customers. At this point we can’t put firm timeline as to when everything will be fully up to speed. We want to be sure to get this right!”

Many of the experienced techs who have helped racers over the years are back on the phones and can be reached toll-free at 1 866-388-5120.



http://69.20.53.62/

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/25/dead-after-all-liquidation-of-crane-cams-announced/

[Fumesucker]

181. Damn, that sucks..

At least S&S is going to bring back some of the product line, anyway.

[DainBramaged]

182. Our FIRST aluminum roller rockers in the 60's were Crane's

up until that point we were using Racer brown steel ones. And then stud girdles came out and everybody picked up another 500 or so RPM.

[Fumesucker]

183. I had a '65 Sunbeam Tiger with a 289, had a Crane cam and Edelbrock intake..

The poor man's AC Cobra, 'twas a fun car indeed..

I enjoyed messing with people that had stuff like an SS396, very few had a clue I had a V8 under the hood. :evilgrin:

[Mopar151]

185. They were bought out a few years ago

By Micronite - and pushed the Micronite product, and evidently did NOT invest in new machines or tooling, while their main competitor (Comp Cams) has. Comp can turn a custom grind around in 24 hours, for little more than a shelf spec cam - Crane was about $100 upcharge for custom, and over a week.
And not shipping stock on the shelf? Somebody knows there are serious problems......

[DainBramaged]

186. I have had Comp grind me a few cams in my lifetime and I toured the place

years ago in Memphis.

[OhioBlue]

29. not the glorification of that at all...

but the fact that he came from where most of us do... and was able to build himself up through his trade/skill/craft. Sure - NASCAR is a totally different thing than being a welder, office assistant, nurse or carpenter... but it used to be more of a blue collar thing... when he started it was. He worked on his own cars and was successful b/c of his skill as a driver and student of the motorsport that is now NASCAR. Probably the same reason many like the show "Deadliest Catch" - we can debate a hundred things about either.. but the fact is that they started out as regular guys knowing blue collar work and were successful.

[proteus_lives]

31. It's harder to succeed in most fields if you don't have an education.

It's another hill he had to climb and he did it. That's impressive. Many would have given up.

[Codeine]

33. It's a natural reaction

to the snotty attitude the educated give to those of us who lack their lofty stature.

[zonkers]

65. I think it was more about success in the face of not having a formal education. Dale w

[The Straight Story]

73. Uhhh I think you totally missed the point

And more to your point - it is not glorification it is agreeing with you. Here is someone one would not expect to go far because they did not pass a test that proved they knew something (or did not take such a test) and yet they excelled.

[bvar22]

83. It is NOT a "glorification" of non-education.

It IS an acknowledgment that people with with enough passion can "make it" without a pre-packaged, pasteurized and standardized education, or at least they could in Dale's time. I'm not so sure anymore.

[DainBramaged]

154. I can't see what you are replying too, but anyone who has a problem with a guy

without a formal education who becomes successful no matter what he does heeds to have THEIR priorities re-examined. That just sounds biased to me.

[Rebubula]

97. Judging...

...from some of your posts....I would say that you do not understand a lot of things.

Nothing anyone can type will make you understand this thread...or the appeal of NASCAR.

[brendan120678]

119. You don't have to be a scholar to make a positive impact on society. (nt)

[saltpoint]

175. But a society of anti-intellectuals breeds violence.

Societies shift when thresholds are reached. That works both ways.

Joan Didion, one of our best living writers, says that "The ability to think for one's self depends on the mastery of language."

Driving like an asshole and being considered a hero for it doesn't meet Didion's standard, and IMO Didion is correct.

[saltpoint]

174. Good point. The Founders urged an educated, alert, informed populace.

This guy appears by any measure to be far removed from that model.

[anonymous171]

191. And I don't understand the worship of education. More specifically, the worship of the educated.

Reminds me too much of the way certain people worship the wealthy.

[Mudoria]

19. Ran into him once in a local bbq joint near my home..

Maybe he had an off day but he sure seemed like an asshole to me.

[alfredo]

36. Celebrity can wear a person down.

[conscious evolution]

38. He was

I worked at an FBO at the Charlotte airport a long time ago.
A lot of the drivers flew out of our place.Including DE.
The only driver that was a bigger asshole then Earnhardt was Davey Allison.
Rusty Wallace and Bobby Allison were the nicest.Way cool guys.

[hfojvt]

47. that's what bugged me about his death

was the seeming glorification of an a$$hole. Anybody with the nickname 'the intimidator' sounds to me like a bully, and exactly the kind of person that I would root against.

[DainBramaged]

51. He wasn't an asshole, and he wasn't a bully, but your knowledge and assumptions

are a thing of wonder to behold.



But that's OK, I understand the hatred most of DU has for motor sports and men who are men............

[blonndee]

66. "Men who are men"?

Which men AREN'T men? :shrug:

[DainBramaged]

103. Ever driven at 200MPH? With oh , say 42 other cars?

That's the definition, but those of you who don't understand NASCAR would question that. And when you compare him to some of the Repuke excuses for men, I rest my case.

[blonndee]

139. Who do you think you're talking to?

When *I* compare him to someone else? I'm not the one making sketchy comparisons here--you are. And don't make stupid-ass assumptions about what I "don't understand."

And that's a stupid answer, anyway. "Ever driven at 200MPH? With oh , say 42 other cars?" is hardly an answer to my question. What an idiotic response. Good god.

[DainBramaged]

151. (Sigh) here's to your insults

XXXXX piss off. I guarantee you've NEVER driven close to the double nickle, but that's OK, you can bitch to someone else, I ain't listening.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

148. Men who are men.....

....run into burning buildings to save people as volunteers, or put themselves in front of a criminal's gun to save someone for less than 50 grand a year, not a bunch of guys who drive billboards around a track for very good money.

[DainBramaged]

152. Yup, like I said, DU isn't NASCAR friendly, but that's OK,

your life is your life, and so is your impression of same.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

166. I have nothing against NASCAR...

...but I don't care for the equating of "real men" with the big business of sports, and that includes the ones I watch such as football and hockey. They get paid very well to take risks.

[hfojvt]

143. those who are not 'intimidators' I guess n/t

[mitchum]

92. Really? I've always just considered them to be pitchmen with nerves of steel

I don't know how that makes them "men who are men", though.

[Mopar151]

140. Ability, intelligence, bravery, integrity.....

It's a funny thing - but many of the mental tools necessary to be a top-flight race driver are very similar to astronauts. The sheer processing speed necessary rules out dummies - the clarity of thought required leaves out the "_paths". The grit and grind of the minor leagues weeds out the liars, gamers, and wanna-be's - one of the most inpotrant of a good driver is desire.

[hfojvt]

144. what a shame then

that all that ability and intelligence accomplishes nothing more than going vrooom vroom vroom around a track.

[DainBramaged]

158. You have been tootin' in the breeze here but I appreciate your insight.

The folks that understand do, the ones that don't, oh well. (Ex-PRO drag racer here).

[Maru Kitteh]

100. What does "men who are men" mean? And what men are not "men?"

?

[redqueen]

111. Um yeah, he was. And this? "and men who are men"

yeeeaaaaah. Right.

[hfojvt]

149. all I know is that I don't like the implications of the nickname

he might as well be called the a$$holator as far as I am concerned. What really bothers me is when people 'win' that way and to many of the audience, that makes a justification for a$$holery. Winning by intimidation is okay, because the 'winner' is a 'success'. Maybe, somehow, the nickname 'the intimidator' does not mean what I think it means. It's okay to be intimidating, sort of like Hulk Hogan in Rocky III. It's part of the game and makes for an exciting show. Nobody ever really gets hurt, either in the wrestling ring or on the race track. Is that it? His 'intimidating' was all gamesmanship, because there's no way there could ever be a crash where somebody either got killed or seriously hurt?

[DainBramaged]

155. Have you watched NASCAR for more than a You Tube minute?

:eyes:

[TuxedoKat]

20. Not really a racing fan but

my husband is a big fan of Formula One racing, so I can appreciate and respect the skill it takes to drive NASCAR
too. It certainly is a beloved sport and I remember the sadness over Dale Earnhardt's loss.

[alfredo]

39. The Brazilian GP is this Sunday. It's been an interesting season. The Braun

team was dominant until the Renault teams figured out how Braun got all that downforce within the rules.

Look for some Americans to break into the sport soon.

[TuxedoKat]

157. Thanks!

I'll let DH know -- he'll be interested.

[alfredo]

180. It should be on at a decent hour 11:30 EST Sunday. Practice and qualifying

friday and Saturday. All will be on the Speed Channel.

Friday and Saturday a 1300 EST (One PM for you non military types)

[TuxedoKat]

189. Cool!

Thanks are you from Brazil or just a Formula One enthusiast?

[alfredo]

192. F1 fan, and Love Brazilian music.

[TuxedoKat]

194. Aha...

Got any recommendations for music? I love Latin music. TIA.

[alfredo]

199. Rosa Passos is a good place to start.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rosa+passos&search_type=&aq=f

Astrud Gilberto's daughter, Bebel Gilberto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl2WJdn3qOE

Astrud. I had a terrible crush on her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9U6URQSF6U&feature=fvw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmV0TcTNJ3o&feature=PlayList&p=8DF10CE745F311F3&index=0&playnext=1


The Samba
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg1xlLufxIU

Portuguese is a lovely language. Fado is Portuguese blues.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rosa+passos&search_type=&aq=f


Mariza, a modern master of Fado.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeOhPR_0x8E

[madrchsod]

21. did`t realize it was that long ago

one thing about dale...he had the heart of a short track racer till the end.

[bullwinkle428]

24. The death of Tim Richmond prevented what possibly could

have been one of the best, if not THE best rivalry the sport could have ever seen. RIP to both...

[mth44sc]

26. Tim was something

Nascar treated him badly at the end.

[StreetKnowledge]

35. Tim did have HIV, and nobody knew all that much about it at the time.

Not justifying the actions, simply pointing out why Richmond got treated badly. I do agree though, both Earnhardt and Richmond were two of the best drivers of the decade. My only wish is that Richmond had stayed in Indycars, which I love so much. Adding him to Mears, Foyt, the Andrettis, Rahal, Fittipaldi, Sullivan and company would have been amazing to see. Especially since Tim got early attention by being the Indy 500's Rookie of the Year in 1980......

[bullwinkle428]

53. I still feel a great deal of bitterness towards the France family

over the way they essentially blackballed Richmond out of racing due to his health issues, and tried to destroy his reputation by labeling him as an addict.

The drivers knew very well that he was getting totally fucked over, but NASCAR being the total dictatorship that it was (and is) prevented them from speaking out in his defense.

[DainBramaged]

55. NASCAR settled the lawsuit Richmond brought against them very quietly

They knew they were wrong, but their ignorance was on display for all to see.

[DainBramaged]

28. Tim Richmond was a GREAT driver, Alan Kulwicki was a GREAT driver

and along with Dale they are gone. Tim to AIDS, Alan to a plane crash. I was staying at the Nashville Marriott the night his plane crashed in '93. Was there because we couldn't get rooms in the Bristol area. What a terrible terrible weekend that was. I still have a signed die cast of his. Maybe that's why I like Smoke so much, he has the same fire in his belly these three did.

[RT Atlanta]

52. I would put Davey there too

Dale always said in interviews after Davey's crash that he (Allison) was the one Earnhardt felt like would've given him the "run for the money."

I used to be a Ford guy (Awesome Bill is my favorite driver), but always respected the hell out of Earnhardt and miss him. Unfortunately, with the way the sport has "evolved" over the last 15 years or so, it really lost me.

Put me back to 84-89 and for me, those are the "glory days" (especially pre-restrictor plate). Neil Bonnett, Tim Richmond, Bobby Allison, Davey Allison (coming on the scene in 87), Earnhardt, Elliott, Labonte, Waltrip... ahh - the good ole days!

[Irreverend IX]

32. Another life tragically lost...

When will people learn? When you get behind the wheel of a Big Three suicide-mobile, you might as well be doing jumping jacks at the edge of the Grand Canyon. The people who've died for the sins of American auto companies could fill Arlington several times over, and Dale was just one of the highest-profile victims of soft-skulled GM engineering. If the death of one of racing's greatest heroes isn't enough to convince Americans to abandon Detroit deathtraps in favor of Asia and Europe's safer alternatives, what will be?

[CRF450]

42. ignorance is bliss

seriously are you THAT ill informed??

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Who used seat belts first?

NASCAR.

Who used crush sections first?

NASCAR.

Hell, don't be too shocked if one of these years they test them green engines on the track.

[SIMPLYB1980]

57. Green Engines!

Blasphemy!!!

[Mopar151]

59. Beleive it, brotha

Already racing in our hillclimb series....

[SIMPLYB1980]

60. No doubt.

http://www.killacycle.com/

"Scotty Pollacheck on the KillaCycle set the overall world record for an electric vehicle in the 1/4 mile, once again, while Eva Hakansson on her ElectroCat set the 48 volt division street-legal electric motorcycle record. What a perfect birthday present for me at Bandimere Speedway."

[CRF450]

184. I think I've read somewhere that as far as high powered motorsports go...

The NASCAR stock cars get the best fuel mileage. Something like 5mpg at fuel race speed, which is crazy cause my truck with a 230hp 4.7 v8 will get 2mpg at WOT! (scan gauge verified!)

[Blue_Tires]

69. and yet they STILL haven't discovered the wonders of fuel injection or independent suspension

:hide:

[DainBramaged]

109. Too much horsepower with Injection, IRS or even IFS would change the game

A good restrictor plate motor will make about 750HP. For quite a few years NASCAR has been trying to keep the speeds under 200MPH simply for safety's sake. Remember, way back in the 80's when w didn't have head and camshaft technology like today and Bill Elliot was going 210MPH LAPS? Way too dangerous. It's fine the way it is.

[cherokeeprogressive]

117. I have to disagree with your opinion of restrictor plates.

With the advent of safer barriers, better restraints, and hood/roof flaps, I believe that the restrictor plate could be done away with.

[DainBramaged]

129. Oh no I think restrictor plates need to go

I had hoped they would have come into the 21at century with maybe Holley Injection, but it appears when you start putting computer controls on these cars, the nostalgia brick heads get all verklempt.

[Blue_Tires]

124. i remember those days as a kid....

and for all the talk about 'safety' quite a few restrictor plate races turn into red flag chain-reaction jumblefests...so if too much power is an issue, another solution would be cutting displacement, lower CR, higher minimum weight, etc...imo NASCAR needs to join the 21st century...I'd like the series to become much more like the Aussie V8 circuit or DTW...get some real stock back into stock car racing...

[nadinbrzezinski]

122. Not needed for racing,

but the SAFETY gear in your car, save the air bag, was first tested at the track... the same goes for many other components.

By the way, if we had five point restraints in street legal cars I suspect the air bags would not be needed that much either.

[Blue_Tires]

126. no...always six and not five points

getting into a hard enough collision with a 5-point belt probably means I'll never walk or urinate properly again :freak:

and for automakers, racing has always been the best testbed for trickle-down technology for road cars, dating back to the Stanley Steamer and the Chevrolet brothers (tire and brake advancements have been the most dramatic)...Several people have tried floating the idea of mainstream green-tech racing series so those platforms can also be refined for commercial use, but the idea hasn't held yet...

My contention is NASCAR has gone in such a weird direction with overexpansion, sticker badging and yestertech that it provides nothing to the automakers who scratch out the $100 million check (other than advertising), nor the consumers driving the 'stock' cars the racing versions are supposedly based on...

and for the record, independent suspensions are essential to racing on anything other than drag strip or big oval :)

[Mopar151]

142. Really?

A properly installed 5-point will not crush your **** - improperly installed, Oh, yeah! I like my Impact 7-point, personally o best of both.
As far as IRS being necessary - there are leigions of SCCA racers - in GT, IT, AS, SS, and Production - who roadrace with live axles - as did Trans Am. Get your stuff right , dude.

[Mopar151]

138. Cup cars have used IFS since the mid '50's.

Under full power conditions, EFI has little to no horsepower advantage.

And beleive me, NASCAR guys have known about this since the stuff came out - and are constrained by the rules from using it. Dosen't stop them from using individual alignment settings for each wheel - yes, camber and toe optimized with a live axle! Or using a very sophisticated series of air bleeds and flow calibrations to tailor the fuel curve of their carburetors - and they maiipulate individual cylinder timing to optomize that by bending the trigger wheel in the distributor.

[Mopar151]

58. Troll, troll, go away.

Asia and Europe's "alternatives" are not vastly safer, for one thing - and #3 was anything but a normal automobile. What likely killed Dale Sr. was a stubborn insistence on mounting seatbelts "his way", resulting in a lap belt skewed in the adjusting buckle - at least according to Bill Simpson, the manufacturer of said belts and Earnhardt's hunting buddy. The competing theory is that the belt was damaged by heat during the extensive chassis dyno work on that particular car.

[DainBramaged]

61. I'd like to see some of these alternatives race on a dirt track

as garbage cans

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. and not wearing a collar

:-)

[lukasahero]

187. You're calling a member since 2002 a troll?

Really?

You really have to get over yourself.

[Mopar151]

188. Noooo...

I'm calling someone who makes ignorant posts a troll.

[StreetKnowledge]

34. I hear ya brother.

I'm a fan of most forms of motorsport (including NASCAR), and Earnhardt's loss has yet to be forgotten. At least he can rest in peace knowing that NASCAR got further and farther after he passed on, and that the safety outcry after his death made NASCAR safer.

[DainBramaged]

37. What amazes me are the ignorant among us who think that A NASCAR racer is

a glorified street car. NOTHING could e further from the truth, and when they realize that the Toyota's racing are THE SAME EXACT CARS as the Fords, Chevy's and Chrysler's except for the engines, their tiny little pin heads explode.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Well they have not been stock cars

in decades

Or street legal for that matter

[alfredo]

40. OK, what will happen first- Apple releases a Tablet computer or,

Danica Patrick jumps to NASCAR?

[DainBramaged]

41. Apple releases the tablet and saves the news industry.....

What would Brian Boitano do.........

[alfredo]

64. Boitano will convince Danica that she is too bellicose for NASCAR.

[bvar22]

84. Danica WILL jump to NASCAR, but...

...she won't do well.
Unfortunately, Danica lacks the guts to go for it.
Her celebrity status and million dollar endorsements have blunted any "hunger" that may have once been there. She has the driving skills (no doubt), but lets herself get pushed around by the bullies.

Sarah Fischer would do better.

INDY CAR Racing is dead....DEAD.
I TRY HARD to stay excited, but it just doesn't work anymore.
Danica added some excitement a few years ago, but that is now gone.
Very few people care anymore.
Only 3 competitive teams, less than 20 cars.
Everything homogenized and equalized. Same engines...only difference is the paint jobs.
The addition of "Push to Pass" was an open admission that nobody runs wide open anymore...:shrug:


Last week's End of Season Championship Race with a contested championship was only covered by VS, and the grandstands were mostly empty. :(

RIP Indy Car Racing.
I loved you.

[alfredo]

87. We need a Formula1 event in the US, and more road events in NASCAR.

I'd like to see European style Rally events here too. That would spur small car sales.

[bvar22]

93. How about Formula 1 on a High Banked Oval?

THAT, I would pay to see.

OR

Formula 1 on a 1/2 mile short track?
That would be INSANE!
LOL.

:hi:

[alfredo]

106. dirt? How about figure 8? The sport is too expensive. The steering wheel

costs more than my house.

[Mopar151]

167. F1 on a short track?

It's called the International Supermodified Association or ISMA. 850+ horsepower, 1800#, direct drive (no clutch, trans, or flywheel - push start), huge active wings(leave contrails at times). The right rear is 18" wide....

[Mopar151]

168. It's called RallyAmerica

I know the guys (Vermont SportsCar) who run the Subaru factory team - they even ran at the ESPN "X Games".

And don't go looking for US F1 anytime soon - their last appearance here stunk up the place (Indianapolis), and American fans have much better racing readily available.

[Lugnut]

43. Thank you for sharing your memories.

Watching the races has never been the same for me since Dale's death. I cheer for Tony Stewart and Robby Gordon who would both race for a hot dog and a Coke just like Dale would've.

[krispos42]

48. Ann Coulter used his death...

...to bash liberals and the New York Times. Claimed the NYT didn't run a story until 2 days later, and the story was buried deep in the paper and began with a snarky Wal-Mart reference.

Al Franken wrote about it in "Lies (And the Lying Liars that Tell Them). Such a blatant act by one witch of a woman. So easily disproveable, too... Franken reprinted the front page of the NYT in his book, and there it was, a respectful and informative news article the day after the crash.

[ConsAreLiars]

49. Thank you for the well-earned tribute. He epitomized the best of what NASCAR once was.

He was totally candid when he talked to the media, not playing slick. If he was pissed at himself or another driver, it was clear. He began when racing was done by groups of individuals who put together a team and gathered up the resources and talents needed to get going, and did well enough to win and advance to the NASCAR level. A time when individual talent and dedication meant more than big money. I watched the fatal crash live....

And, his father's son, another honest man, Dale Junior took his team to see Fahrenheit 9/11.

[Corey_Baker08]

50. I Agree- Tony Stewart Owns Eldora A Dirt Rcacing Track in My Small County!!!

Tony has bought the place of the long time owners in a county with very few people with nothing but corn and has drawn us thousands of tourist to the track, its amazing what its doing for our local economy. He is a great guy and Dale Sr. was too. I was young watching the race with my dad when he died and when the news came on he had passed we set a model car on our table with a flower on it and lit a candle burning it for days, he was my dads absolute favorite driver since he was little.

RIP
Dale Earnhardt Sr.
Your Accolades will not be Forgotten!!!

[Orsino]

54. I'm not NASCAR-friendly, much...

...but I won't hate on anyone for missing a beloved competitor who (even to me) seemed to be one of the good guys.

[SIMPLYB1980]

56. I never liked Earnhart he was the Rick Flair of Motorsports.

Always willing to play dirty and put someone into the wall so he could win. Then he would say "That's racing" and blow of the fact he could have killed someone. His death was tragic, but as a racer he was "The Man" only because everyone knew if he wanted past you you were going into the wall.

[divideandconquer]

63. Which was how his fatal wreck happened

King Richard never did that.

[redqueen]

114. Thank you.

It's good to know that at least one other person here saw through the hype.

[bullwinkle428]

62. If there was a silver lining to the circumstances of his death, it was

that some significant safety advances came about in the wake of it. Of course, it took some more deaths (Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin) along with what happened to DE before things were taken seriously as far as changes. The SAFER barriers and the head and neck restraints have done wonders to improve things over the past 15 years or so.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

67. God Bless Dale. I Miss Him As Well, And Still Am In Shock Of That Day.

Great post DB. Shame that too many stupid fuck noselifting morons had to unrecommend this. I mean c'mon... Really?

We miss you Dale! You shall always be the one and only Intimidator.

[Blue_Tires]

70. i grew up a NASCAR fan until i disovered other racing series

hated dale with the heat of 1,000 suns, but (very) slowly grew a grudging respect...

[Are_grits_groceries]

74. He was a flaming asshole.

I have a cousin who used to work in a booth at the races when they came to Darlington and her son earned money as a gofer.

She could tell some stories about him. One time he got mad at some fan that asked him for an autograph and had him thrown out of the entire racetrack. The other drivers set a table up outside the track, and autographed stuff for the fan. They also gave him free stuff.

Earnhardt was lucky he wasn't born earlier and had to race some of the drivres like David Pearson and Junior Johnson.

Smoke is the only one I have really liked since the other group has gone. Earnhardt was kind of a bridge between the two sets.

[SIMPLYB1980]

80. No kidding Junior Johnson would

have wiped the floor with him. The old bootlegger new tricks DE never even thought of.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/53692-junior-johnson-nascars-most-famous-bootlegger

"How is the moonshine business, Junior?" asked a smiling Barney Hall.

"It's a lot easier the legal way than it was the illegal way," said a laughing Junior Johnson.

Junior Johnson is still selling moonshine, but in a more legal and organized way. His award winning Midnight Moon and Catdaddy Moonshine can be found in 11 states.

Barney Hall continues: "Rumor has it you were offered a bribe to expose your daddy."

"That's true. When I was about 10, my younger brother and I were stopped by two government men. One of them told me to tell him where my daddy was. I said no, and my little brother said no also. He then offered me and my brother $5 to take him where my daddy was. I said no again.

"He said fine, I will give you both $10 to take me where your daddy is. I said OK, give me ten dollars. The government man said for me to tell him where my daddy was, and when he got back, he will give me my $10. I said mister, if you go where my daddy is, you ain't coming back."

[Berserker]

112. Yes you are right

Tony is a flaming asshole. He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same post as Dale Earnhardt. If I had a cousin that worked the races I would ask that next time they are at the track to tell tony to "smoke" this.

[Are_grits_groceries]

137. Tony has his moments.

However, he doesn't act like his s*** don't stink. Earnhardt was a mean SOB who played being the man for the fans. Well they loved him but from afar.

I will put Smoke in a post with Earnhardt because it's just an effing post. It's not a proclamation handed down from Gawd.

My alltime favorite driver was Fireball Roberts. He and Curtis Turner would have turned Dale inside out.

[naaman fletcher]

76. I'm a NASCAR fan,

but anybody who cares enough about a sports star that a death 8 years ago "hurts" has serious priority issues.

[DainBramaged]

77. One of my priorities is to put morans on ignore

and you just made my extensive list.

There's a priority for ya!

[bvar22]

130. I still hurt for a dog that died 20 years ago.....

...and he wasn't even a sports star.

Anyone who doesn't feel these hurts is missing something in the humanity department, and should seek a good therapist.

"He who grieves well, lives well."

[rubberducky]

78. I find it hard to believe I`m the only rec.

I`m just an old grandma, but even I know what a huge loss his death caused in the NASCAR community. I`ve known many good people who love the sport, hell I`ve had 2 employers heavily involved in NASCAR. Dale`s death was such a sad loss.

[DainBramaged]

79. Like I said a LOT of NASCAR haters here unfortunately

but if we wanted to talk about vegetables.......

[YoungAndOutraged]

85. I'll always remember where I was when he crashed.

I had just turned the sofa over in the living room out of excitement for Michael Waltrip finally winning a race, enticing the neighbors to come over and see what the commotion was about. A lot of folks misunderstand it when I say it but I think Dale Earnhardt would've wanted to die on the track. Now he's a legend, and Daytona's sort of like a landmark, like a monument to a great warrior that died there. I hope he would've taken that as a compliment.

[bvar22]

89. I join you.

Like him or not, Dale was special, and NASCAR lost something with his passing.
I sometimes hurt for his son having to live in that larger than life shadow.

I will never forget that edge of the seat excitement that Dale brought to NASCAR.

Click here for "The Pass in the Grass".
Gave me goosebumps again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo4y7MJfeIs

You're correct, NASCAR isn't the same.
"Points Racing" did some of that, also The Big Corporate Money, but I'm still addicted.
Still plenty of edge of the seat racing.

Last year (I forget which race), did you see Edwards dive in insanely deep in the last turn trying to beat Johnson, and slide up into the wall?
After the race, Edwards said,
"Well, I knew I was going to hit the wall before I dove in there, but I didn't think it would slow me down so much. It works in the video game."
Edwards won points from me that day.

Pulling for Stewart this year.

[Robyn66]

95. I'm a Democrat and a NASCAR fan

Hubby and I just LOVE the sport. Its a very guilty pleasure but we used to go to the race every summer. It is an experience. You definately are in a mini Red-state when you are at the race but its just fun.

[wicket]

102. Me too!

:thumbsup:

[flvegan]

99. I'm not a NASCAR fan, but I'll give you a Rec.

Just because it's not my taste (I love F1, though) doesn't mean the thread doesn't have a great deal of merit.

[DainBramaged]

104. Thanks bud, I appreciate it.

I could have started a Megan Fox thread too........

[flvegan]

105. You'd be

hard pressed to get an Unrec for that!

[DainBramaged]

113. I get unrecd for anything I post

lots of bitter aholes here.

[wicket]

101. I loved Dale

Has it really been that long?

RIP

[redqueen]

107. He drove dirty.

That's what I'll remember him for.

[saltpoint]

176. I second that.

[JackRiddler]

108. Who?

[cherokeeprogressive]

115. I respected him most for his resistance to "restrictor plate racing".

His philosophy was "let me go as fast as I dare go". Gotta respect that. Run with the big dogs or stay on the porch.

Limiting speed and acceleration have actually made the sport more dangerous. 35 cars bunched up at Talladega or Daytona on the backstretch isn't a good thing. They can't get away from each other to a sufficient space before someone who's jockeying for position takes out 20 cars.

[PVnRT]

121. Add to that - you don't really ever slow down much on a superspeedway

So, everyone is going flat out, all the time, at generally the same speeds.....yeah.

[Are_grits_groceries]

141. It's the big tracks like

Talledega and Daytona that are the problem. when they built those tracks, the top speeds were much lower. With technology, the cars can go much faster than anyone could conceive when they were built. You can get up to some truly scary speeds there.

That said, the restrictor plates suck too. They just bunch everybody up at a high speed, and there is going to be a whale of a wreck.

Earnhardt would have loved to spin somebody out at 228mph or more without plates. Bobby Allison already took flight, and there would have been a lot more without the plates.

I don't have a good solution.

[liberalhistorian]

116. I so clearly remember that night.

I was busy at the computer, but had the teevee on, as my son, stepfather and I were all into the race and I could listen and type at the same time. I thought it was a joke at first. Then we figured he was likely just slightly hurt and was being taken to the hospital as a precaution. Even the announcers at the time just thought it was minor. When the reality became known, we were truly shocked and horrified. It didn't seem possible. It brought home just how dangerous these races really can be a lot of the time. It's hard to believe it's been eight years already. My son was only ten at the time and was SOOOOOOOOOO upset.

[ohheckyeah]

145. The geat intimidator!

I remember.

[martymar64]

146. I don't get the sport myself, but if you like it, that's cool

If motor sports was my bag, I'd probably be more into rally racing, ala Paris to Dakar or the original Death Race 2000.

[martymar64]

147. I don't really get NASCAR, but if you like it, that's cool

If motor sports was my bag, I'd probably be more into rally racing, ala Paris to Dakar or the original Death Race 2000.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

150. I've always been a Sterling Marlin fan

I just liked his name. But I guess he is blamed for this dude's death.

Oh, well.

[madville]

156. Not his fault at all

It was just racing. If anything NASCAR is more to blame for the plate racing rules. Bill Elliot will always be the fastest man in NASCAR with the current plate rules. Isn't his record qualifying time something like 228 mph at Talladega in 1988, the year before they started making them run plates?

And to the person that said all NASCAR fans are Repugs, you probably think all gun owners and concealed weapons license holders are too, right?

[DainBramaged]

159. 212 lap, 228 down the back straight, THAT is scary in a two ton car

[a la izquierda]

160. Didn't love him, but respected his crazy talent.

I'm a Mark Martin girl myself.

[DainBramaged]

162. My beautiful daughter was a Rusty Wallace fan. She gave me a #2 Miller

pullover for Christmas years ago because she said since Dale and him were good friends I should be able to wear it without feeling like I was cheating.


I still have it in the closet.





:rofl:

[a la izquierda]

163. That's pretty funny...

[laststeamtrain]

161. I made pom-poms out of my own back hair.

[Fumesucker]

164. I've seen the pic before but your comment made me..

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[DainBramaged]

165. Well, my call on DU not being NASCAR friendly was dead nuts on

24 hours after posting a simple memorial to someone who means a lot to so many racing fans, only one rec and dozens of hateful replies (and unrecs). Yet I will bet if I did the same to those folks sacred cows, I'd be racking up dozens of deleted posts. Sad how people who call themselves progressives are so narrow minded.

[eridani]

169. To me racing cars is a lot like racing bikes

I get why people want to DO it--I jut don't get why people want to WATCH it. Dale was quite a mensch, I understand. Reason enough to mourn him.

[saltpoint]

172. I can see from the nation's bumperstickers that this guy is still very

popular but I never liked him to start with because he appeared to be celebrated for his very strong inclination toward aggression in a motor vehicle.

I'm not seeing how that's a good thing to celebrate.

[saltpoint]

177. While likely an unpopular sentiment among Dale's fan's I'm glad he's dead.

I'm sorry he dropped out of high school.

I'm sorry he drove dirty and mean.

I'm sorry he became one, though not the only, emblem of mean-spirited territorialism that is manifest on the playgrounds of the nation, the race tracks coast to coast, the nasty foreign policy decisions in our country.

He was the personification of that mean-spirited, anti-intellectual, and overtly violent component of our national character which has placed justice and peace in jeopardy world-wide.

[DainBramaged]

178. How sad for you to be happy at anyone's death, it speaks volumes about you

:eyes: :puke:

[SIMPLYB1980]

193. I understand why you are upset, but you

can't expect people to not call out Dale for being a dirty driver. How many times did Dale Earnhardt actually wreck another car with his bump and run style of racing? I can think of at least 10, but I'm sure it is way more than that. It's been 8 years, I think that is a long enough time to morn before people start talking about someone's legacy.

[saltpoint]

195. I'll reiterate the sentiment. I'm glad he's dead. He didn't add a whole

hell of a lot to the cultural landscape as far as I'm concerned.

It would appear that your original post is celebrating behavior not generally understood to be that of a mature adult. You liked the guy. No one's stopping you from liking him.

But it would not appear that you're able to persuade anyone that DE was anything other than an all-but-self-professed asshole who was famous for being an asshole.

I don't consider that much of an accomplishment.

[DainBramaged]

197. Well you've proven yorself to be no better than what you claim Earnhardt was

So I'll say goodbye and not ever have to read your vile tripe again. You are one person whom I will enjoy putting on ignore. Since the mods think it's OK for you to celebrate death, I'll celebrate ignoring you.

[saltpoint]

198. If you really are going to celebrate ignoring me, it would count for

a lot. Or, if you prefer, for a little.

Either way I certainly won't stop you from celebrating DE if you choose to. He's got his fans, no question.

But I'm yet to hear you tell me what you admired in someone whose legacy is built entirely on his being "The Intimidator," which is to say, he drove like an asshole.

I wish you'd started a thread on Barbara Boxer, or Bella Abzug, or Robert Bly, or Amelia Earhart, or Dustin Hoffman, or Emmylou Harris, or Joan Didion instead.

[jrandom421]

190. Don't give a rip about Earnhardt

People called him a great competitor because he drove dirty and mean. Thought he was a punk when he started, and still think he's one.

He'll never ever be deserving of holding Richard Petty's helmet. Richard competed harder and more fiercely on the track than anyone in the history of NASCAR, but he did it by the rules and with fair play. Off the track, there was never any driver more courteous, helpful, polite and respectful.

There's a reason why he's still "The King".

[deaniac21]

196. I always thought he was a pussy.

[Mopar151]

200. Haters, haters, everywhere!

NASCAR/motorsports in general is stupid? All stock car mechanics are ignorant of modern technology? Dale Sr. had no class or talent, and could only win by driving dirty? Yeah, right - it must be true, 'cuz y'all beleive it?
Piffle! Twaddle! Horsefeathers!
Earnhardt Sr. was complex, enigmatic, very shy, and far more comfortable in the race car, field, or woods than dealing with people. IMHO, he was likely functionally illiterate and very intelligent. Combine that with a mill-town upbringing, a father who was an agressive short-track driver, and a car owner (Richard Childress)who paid him to win by any legal means, and stuff is gonna happen....
And I've seen REAL dirty drivers, right up close - Geoff Bodine for one - Earnhardt was agressive, and crossed the line a little at times - but He did'nt have the manevolent streak (and cheatin' MF's syndrome) some do.
I digress, though - How many of the haters have been to a major league race? Strapped in to a race car of any sort? Built an engine? Set up a car on scales? I thought not..... But the ones who can't, call the ones who can stupid. I dunno, me....

[DainBramaged]

201. Poured nitro and then fired a top fuel engine prior to the next round

or was part of a World Championship racing team. I just wanted to add that.


Nitro, one of my favorite smells.





:evilgrin:

[Mopar151]

202. One of the few"collectibles" I own

Is a hat, signed by three Lagana's - Bob Sr, Bobby Jr., and Dom. I love the smell of nitromethane in the morning....