How do I respond to this...

[madinmaryland]

Edited to add, the person prefaced it with this:

" I am very conservative, however always look for the best in people"

I work hard and expect to be paid accordingly, by merit, not by union, or by rights that I am a human being or whatever people are aruging these days. Life is tough. I work with people who are mentally retarded and that is my choice, but I sure could be making more money somewhere else. Choices are what people must live with.

:wtf:

[ananda]

1. a thought

I don't think it's merit that is being rewarded these days..
not by a long shot.

[existentialist]

2. In what context was this statement made?

[madinmaryland]

4. It is made by a conservation who prefaces it by saying:

" I am very conservative, however always look for the best in people"

[ddeclue]

3. Can you clarify?

Are those YOUR words?

Are they someone else's?

Can you provide more context?

It's not clear what is meant by this.

[madinmaryland]

5. See my response above, and I am editing to add to the op.

[Selatius]

6. The person is living in a dream world. People are paid whatever the employers want to pay.

That is all. If the employer pays a rather high wage, it's either because the employer really is that compassionate, or he is doing it because there is a labor union nearby that forces him to pay that wage to prevent workers from concluding they also need a union.

People do not always get what they pay for, but they must pay for whatever they do get. A labor union entails union dues, which are trivial at any rate, but it comes with job security, higher wages, and better benefits. This is beyond dispute; it's the facts.

[madinmaryland]

8. What I wanted to ask "her"

is does she "merit" the 70% wage that she makes as compared to her husband.

Yea. Merit bullshit is all fine and good when you have the legacy family behind you.

I agree with you. She has been living off the coattails of her family for a century (governors, councilmen, representatives) and yet she has the nerve to say that she has earned everything on her own. Yea, right!

[Selatius]

16. You should point out the advantages she has been given due to her family name.

Do it in a straight-forward but polite manner. Then ask her again if she truly thinks, given that observation, she earned everything she has through nothing but merit. I would only guess whatever comes out of her mouth is a lie wrapped in sorrowful denial.

[EFerrari]

11. It sounds like the transcript of what authoritarian followers tell themselves

making sense of their passivity by redefining it as a moral choice. Orwellian.

[Lars39]

7. By merit? He'll get paid whatever his boss wants to pay him.

And he better hope he gets a regular paycheck, with all the proper deductions taken out and his insurance paid. This guy sounds like he has *never* worked for the boss or company from hell.

[madinmaryland]

9. It's a she. And she has never really had to work a day of work in her

fucking life.

Her "business" is scrap booking.

Yea.

[Kerrytravelers]

10. Is this referring to teacher's merit pay?

Trust me, the taxpayers couldn't afford teacher merit pay.


And what I particularly love is how she says, "I'm very conservative, however I always look for the best in people." Isn't that admitting that, in general, conservatives don't look for the best in people? How refreshingly honest.

[izquierdista]

12. Merit is not "what the market will bear"

In a capitalist economy, all you can expect to be paid is the least it takes to get someone to do the job. Your "merit" has no place in the calculus, and if someone from a third world country can do it to an acceptable degree for a lot less, you're SOL (and no, that's not Spanish for sunny).

If the rich have enough people to work with the mentally retarded, whatever you think your work with the mentally retarded poor doesn't matter, because it is worth zero -- they won't pay for it. If you expect to get paid by merit, you better hope that someone other than a rich person's accountant is making the calculation. You better hope that it is the government that has made a consensus decision that making sure ALL the retarded are cared for is a net benefit for everyone.

Addendum: This is why charity is bullshit in a capitalist society. They tug at the heartstrings to squeeze out an inadequate amount of money to attack some social problem. In a just society, if there is a deserving cause, it should be funded by the collective and not left to the kindness of strangers.

[SmileyRose]

13. Um, joining a union is a CHOICE

CHOOSING to bargain collectively with your employer is as much of a choice as flying by the seat of your pants on your own. If this person's neighbors were smart enough to CHOOSE to join a union and have superior pay and benefits what's it to him/her?

AND IMHO no one who works full time with intellectually or emotionally challenged individuals would use the word "retarded" - mostly because within the first month you realize often the "retarded" people are the smartest ones in the room.

[inthebrain]

14. I good luck then

Perhaps she/he might want to consider how much she COULD BE making once the Wall Street leached and the CEOs are no longer supported by his/her labor.

That's who your "merit" and "hard work" winds up paying. Not to mention that you as the laborer become nothing more than an object yourself.

[sandnsea]

15. Some people choose to have advocates

to make sure the best possible voices are arguing the merits of their work.

[BuyingThyme]

17. Post it on DU.

But use quotation marks sparingly.

[Sinti]

18. I would try to start with understanding

Conservatives really do believe in this meritocracy myth that's been perpetrated on them. You and I may see it as a lie that's toxic to human life, but to them it's a salve to sooth their conscience. It must be true, or everyone's life would be much better. People born into wealth, or power, or the easy life are people, too. They see the same things you do, they just fear that if things change they'll be trading places with the suffering.

If you acknowledge her right to feel it's merit that gets her pay, you can then potentially (in a non-confrontational way) talk about equal pay and unions. You can drop something like, "it would be nice if we, as women, got paid the same amount as men do for the same work, though" or something similar in a friendly and maybe even joking manner. If she doesn't feel camaraderie with you, she won't accept the "we" part of that statement, and will therefore reject it as a whole.

If you maintain your empathetic position, you can at another time you could talk about unions, beginning with the idea that in a capitalist society labor is a product just like any other, and corporations are trying to get the lowest price they can. Unions serve the purpose on the other side of that equation by trying to get the highest price they can. It's pure and proper capitalism at work. They're a tool used to balance the interests of the corp with the interests of the workers, and the workers would do well to use this tool.

People have been so brainwashed about unions it's very hard to get through to them - "they make things too expensive" they were told, and then the people who told them off-shored their jobs to places that have really cheap labor. Obviously, the corps were telling the truth when they said they made American workers too expensive. The current economic condition opens the door to talk about the fact that if people made more, they could afford to buy more, welcome to the virtuous circle. If all the money is at the top your economy comes crashing down around you and everyone suffers - it's simple math.

Obviously, this person has compassion in their heart, or they wouldn't be working to empower challenged people. I think you could make the argument that compassion like hers should be rewarded, not punished with low wages. Maybe our values as a people on this are a little askew. Life is tough - but if we worked together more it could be a whole lot easier for everyone. (hold hands and sing Kumbaya)

I'm certain you could find an approach that would work. If you say anything to offend, though, pointing out her frailties (which I'm sure she's aware of in the privacy of her mind) won't serve you. People hate it when you impugn their honor. If you treat this person as if she has the highest possible good intentions, you may find in reality she does - she just doesn't have a good plan for carrying them out.

FWIW, I've actually used this method with Fox News watching fairly hardcore Christian conservatives with good results. Sorry for being verbose.

[madinmaryland]

22. Well, my initial contention was a false email she sent out about Obama

brainwashing our kids in one of our local schools. I indicated my objections to her spreading falsehoods (forwarding emails) about the school, which she did indirectly apologize for. She then spent the next two emails, trying to convince me that she is a conservative. I just felt that there was no point in trying to convince her that her political beliefs were messed up.

[Rex]

19. Tell her she sounds doubtful in herself or her ideals.

Tell her her little statement means she doubts deeply in her own party enough to make a sarcastic quib about her ideals. As if we need a disclaimer to already knowing of the huge failure and shame of the GOP for over a decade if not longer. Question her for her own doubts and tell her that is a Republican trait Democratic people don't suffer from.

Or you could just give her a lolly pop, pat her on the head and say, 'be off drone'.

[hfojvt]

20. depends on the context

what issues are you discussing that caused her to say that? What is she trying to prove? That she doesn't need unions or minimum wage laws?

But without unions or regulations, then what is to prevent employers from paying as little as possible and working you as hard as possible? Why not pay $1 a day for a twelve hour day, six days a week? That's the way factory work was until workers organized and fought for shorter weeks and higher pay and safety regulations.

When it comes to jobs, for most people, the choices are work, steal, or starve, and the job seeker has to take what they can get. Usually the lesser of evils rather than something they really want to do. I have two university degrees myself, and have worked the last seven years as a part-time janitor. Not because I am thrilled by the high status work of cleaning toilets, carrying tables, stacking chairs and mopping floors, but because I have been unable to find a better job. "Choices are what people must live with" but often people only have the choice between a rock and a hard place.

But if those people stand together, they can create better choices for themselves, with unions and with democracy via legislation that gives us rights like time and a half for every hour over 40 in a week.

[left is right]

21. Union salaries succeded in raising the pay/benefits for all job around them

even for the wait staff at the local restaurant. When unions were strong we experienced slaries that kept up with the cost of living. In the last two decades, unions became noticeably weaker and pay has stagnated actoss the board