The Civil War Redux

[Are_grits_groceries]

Quote on DU: We kicked the South's ass, crippled their economy, and ended slavery. They got what they deserved and still pay a price today. Fuckers.

And you wonder why the region is still different?

There are a lot of people here who have changed. We are still pushing.

The loudmouths get all the airtime.

It is a 2-way street. The cycle of hate isn't just from one side. Every time somebody bashes the South in terms that you have just used, people remember the war.

Except for the goofball secessionists & Confederacy freaks, people don't dwell on the Civil War 24/7.

How can we forget the war when it is constantly thrown at us all the time?

If people can't discuss the issues in modern terms, then it will never go away. I am not saying it should be forgotten. The horrendous nature of the war and slavery should still be a lesson never forgotten.

However, when every issue involving the South somehow circles back to that time, then the whole issue erupts again. It happens on DU with South bashing comments and threads.

I am so liberal my family and friends are gone. I keep pushing back so that the region will eventually change, and they will too.

DU can be a sanctuary. It can also be just another place to get bashed, and this time from another side. When you broadbrush the South with your comments, you hit me too.

Do you realize the toll that pushing back down here takes mentally and physically? Sometimes DU can just add to it.

Somebody will probably tell me to just leave DU.

{and no, I am not trying to claim that what I face is nearly as bad as the problems minorities still face. Unfortunately, there is till too long a way to go yet.)

[iamjoy]

1. The South Still Suffers

The South still suffers from the Civil War and "Reconstruction" and African Americans still suffer from the affects of slavery.

Poverty, illiteracy and health problems are higher in the South. Too many in our society (regardless of region) still have prejudices, if not racist tendencies.

To say the Civil War was only about slavery is foolish. It was about an agrarian life style vs. an industrialized one. It was about the power of the Federal government vs. the States. Too often the cry of "state's rights" has been used to justify horrible abuses or at least denial of full civil rights to some people. That doesn't mean the argument for a less centralized government doesn't have merit - or that it solely has to do with protecting racist policies.

[Hannah Bell]

4. not life style, profits; a power system connected to british money based on slave labor v.

one connected to continental money based on serf labor.

serfs won.

[PVnRT]

89. To be more exact, the serfs didn't win, the moneyed New England shippers

and Ohio industrialists won.

[Hannah Bell]

106. yes; my styling was intended as irony.

[southernyankeebelle]

19. I am one for moving forward but as a transplant from the east coast to the south I see the

mentality of southerns seem to be stuck. Some don't want to change. They don't recognize that they are here because somewhere centuries ago your great great great great parents came here from the old country. They seem to be afraid of people they don't understand and some don't want to try to understand. They are ok with the hispanics working the field and shopping at wal mart but they don't want them living next door because they have many people living in a house and party all the time and make lots of loud noises. When in fact that could be a large family who have a good time. It is their culture and some in the south don't care. Some want to impose their religious life style on the rest of the people who don't believe like them.

[Caliman73]

72. The same can be said of many communities in large urban areas.

Because of the density of population in urban centers it is more difficult to get away from others and so are forced to deal with each other, but still some people don't want to change. Places like South Boston, Little Italy in New York, South Central Los Angeles, East Los Angeles, the Chinatowns in many major cities. Theses are all places where ethnic groups have settled to be with people of their "own kind" who want others to stay away. Granted, the Southern states have the history of rebellion and slavery much later than the rest of the nation, but the kind of thinking you described above is not limited in anyway to the South.

[WolverineDG]

82. I seem to remember desegregation riots in Massachusetts in the 70s nt

[Caliman73]

88. And I remember riots in Los Angeles in the 90's

Because Blacks and Latinos felt they were being discriminated against. The fact that riots occurred 100 years after the supposed end of segregation and discrimination in the North says that it is still a problem.

[WolverineDG]

95. Yet only the Southerners on DU get beat up about it nt

[Caliman73]

109. I think that it is unfortunate

When a whole geographical area is tarred forever for historical reasons and the acts of extremists when there is racial and socio-economic tension all around the nation.

[kenfrequed]

55. Uhm

I'm going to take issue with the oft used Agrarian versus Industrial canard.

Describing the south as an Agrarian society would be like describing McDonalds as a sit down resturaunt. It is a complete misrepresentation of the facts.

There were plenty of agrarian cultures at the time. Small towns dotted the plain states that were family farms where people grew the food they needed to survive and traded and sold what they could beyond this. These farms also did exist in the yankee northeast and even in the dixie south as well.

The conflict had a industrial dimension but it was a factory industrial versus a slave industrial competition. The other problem with rating this conflict so was that there was little reason for the industrial north to complain about the slave-industrial south. The cotton that was picked by slaves in the south would later choke the spinsters in the looms in factories to the north.

It was the conflict between styles of government inferred by economic disparity that agitated many in the north. The attempt by Missouri pro slavery ruffians to force slavery on Kansas was particularly disturbing to Northerners. Kansas farmers did not want to compete with slave produced crops as it would destroy their way of life. So the opposition to slavery did have an economic dimension as well as a moral dimension but it was the economic dimension of livlihood, not merely some industrial factories that were largely unaffected or, in fact, supplied idirectly by slavery.

It is not a coincidence that the abolitionist John Brown chose violence as a method of his abolitionist beliefs considering where he came from.

I suppose it is fair to point out that I am a Minnesotan, one of the first states to stand up to fight for the Union.

[hfojvt]

117. John Brown came from Ohio

He, like many northerners went to Kansas to make it a Free State. For that reason specifically. Due to the Kansas-Nebraska act, I believe, it was left up to democracy to decide if Kansas would be a Free state, where slavery was outlawed, or a slave state, where slavery was legal. This motivated many anti-slavery people to move to Kansas so they could be part of the vote to make Kansas a free state.

John Brown used violence because he felt that slavery itself was based on violence, and also to answer the violence of the pro-slavery crowd not only in Kansas, but also in incidents like the murder of Elijah Lovejoy in Alton, Illinois.
http://www.state.il.us/hpa/lovejoy/bio.htm

But it is ridiculous to characterize the North-South conflict as industrial versus agrarian, primarily because the North was also agrarian. The vast majority of northerners were farmers, especially in western states like Wisconsin and Minnesota (okay, a good portion were lumberjacks too in those wooded states, a tip of the hat to Brainard and the blue ox.) That was still true of northern states well into the twentieth century.

I do lots of census work and even in the 1930 census, the majority of people that I am looking at are farmers by trade. As a somewhat random example, I looked up a person I am working on now, Gavette Burt Holcomb, born 1845, who spent 11 months in Andersonville prison. In the 1900 census, he was a farmer in Simsbury, Connecticut. Not surprising.

[kenfrequed]

121. Agreed.

Yes Brown's birthplace was Ohio of course, but violence figured more prominently when he went to Kansas.

And the pro slavery forces were very into jumping from Missouri into Kansas to try to force the state into being slave. So the abolitionist forces were not the only ones that went into the state.

[Somawas]

2. South bashing

is totally wrong. As is any other form of prejudice.

[Bandit]

3. The South predominately votes Republican

For that fact I will criticise..The deep south States have the worst ratings in education, in health care, in income ratio, yet still vote Republican...Defend that if you can.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dappleganger]

7. And Virginia...

my native state, they delivered as well.

[Sinti]

8. Why should they ever listen to a word you say?

Why should anyone in the South think you, or anyone who speaks like you, has their best interest in mind? You don't like them, because they're poor and uneducated, if I understand your post correctly. If I were a poor and uneducated Southerner I'd probably figure you'd rather do me harm, from your tone. They vote Republican, because the Republicans embrace them, as is, and give them someone to blame for their problems - they don't have to offer answers, they have a scapegoat or 10. We have to bring good solutions, and an open heart to people, unless we also want to use scapegoats.

[Bandit]

11. Tone????? What was factually incorrct in what I said?

There was no tone...I was simply stating a fact. One that I find quite distressing..

[Sinti]

15. It's horribly distressing

the part about tone - which I may have taken wrong was in this phrase: "yet still vote Republican...Defend that if you can." I don't think it's intentional, frustration happens.

They vote Republican precisely because they're ill educated and poor. They've been duped in the worst way. I have a suspicion on some level they know it, but can't admit it to themselves, and they feel they need a strong authority to back them up. To say that they haven't been duped, hence they continue to rely on Republicans to lead them.

[JVS]

46. They vote republican because of LBJ's Civil Rights act, before that they voted democratic

LBJ said it would lose us the South and it did. They weren't duped, they were pissed off that blacks got civil rights.

[Are_grits_groceries]

49. Yep.

And when that happened the Dems ceded the region to the Rethugs. Nixon's Southern strategy reinforced the mess.

So for years, the major voices heard were Rethugs, and that's who people believed because that's who gave them some

help when they needed it.

[JVS]

50. Are you suggesting that LBJ shouldn't have supported civil rights for black people?

Nixon's Southern Strategy was an appeal to pissed off racists. Is that the "help" the South needed? How should we have responded?

[Are_grits_groceries]

52. LBJ shouldn't have had to because

it should have been done decades earlier. I answered that insulting opening although I think you wrote it just to be offensive. congratulations.

The national Democratic Party should have kept their hand in everywhere. They should have fought every election like it meant something. Then not only would the progressives had some help, but others might have felt that there could be a place for them.

It would have kept a door to another view open instead of closing it to one ideology. It wouldn't have been easy, but the Rethugs wouldn't have gotten as tight a stranglehold.

[Sinti]

86. Yes, it's called the Southern Strategy

Republicans have used the Southern Strategy to gather votes in the south. Racism is malignant ignorance. I think we all can agree on that. People aren't born racist, though, they have to be taught. If the more enlightened among us won't do the teaching, well...

I was in Virginia before I came to deep red Idaho, both places have plenty of people that aren't racists and still vote Republican. They're very poorly informed voters. They won't listen to you, because they think you already hate them, it's that simple. The racists have been duped, they think people of another race have destroyed their lives - just like their grand pappy said they would.

I love my fellow DUers, even those who bash the south and wish it would secede and die. However, if you will not forgive a man for his ignorance he will never let it go. He will cling to it as if it's a lifeline. Blacks are their scapegoat for why so many things are so wrong. In Idaho they have the Hispanics, many of which have lived here longer than the white folk.

If you can make them put down this security blanket (of racism in this case), they really want the same things as everyone else. Then we can talk about how we get there. You can't beat it out of people - it's one devil out and two in. You have to listen to the real issues they have, not the ways they blame the scapegoat they've been given.

Then again, it's easier for ourselves to use the fundies and racists as a scapegoat for what's wrong and throw them away as unworthy of teaching than it is to try to teach them, because they usually have very thick heads.

[DireStrike]

100. That is also why we have such a weak social safety net, and no universal health care

A good portion of this country is willing to pay to support their fellow citizens... as long as they are white.

Those OTHER people deserve whatever happens to them. It is their fault, anyway. They are just not as bright or as good as white folk, so when something goes wrong in their neighborhood, it is because their race is inferior. Maybe if they would stop listening to that awful music and started acting like REAL AMERICANS they could make it in this country.

[Are_grits_groceries]

9. I won't even try to defend the indefensible.

We have been behind since the Civil War. This region has always been last in a lot of things. I don't know when we will ever truly catch up.

Here is a map from the 2008 election.

One way to improve the map and reveal more nuance in the vote is to use not just two colors, red and blue, but to use red, blue, and shades of purple in between to indicate percentages of votes. Here is what the normal map looks like if you do this:



The red areas of the country are bigger than people may think. There are blazing fools everywhere. Dump the South. You still have problems in other places.

One other thing is happening that the Democratic Party better realize. The population is shifting to the South and to the West. States in the NE are going to lose House seats to these states. SC is going to pick up one.

If this trend continues, the Democrats better make a much bigger national push down here. Demographics are working against them unless they do. The region hopefully will shift bluer because of the movement, but that may take longer without help.

In SC, an out lesbian almost defeated a white male incumbent. She had to use her own money, and the DCCC didn't send anything until the end. She shouldn't have even been in the race if all the old ideas held.

So bash away if that makes you feel better. You might want to look around the region where you live. there are some nasty surprises in places people wouldn't even imagine them.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. because:

We kicked the South's ass, crippled their economy, and ended slavery. They got what they deserved and still pay a price today. Fuckers.

[Sinti]

20. You forgot your sarcasm smiley

[era veteran]

24. Reconstruction

After the War, the yankees stole all the wealth from the south for generations. It was to the favor of the northern financial interests to keep the citizens of southern states uneducated, sick, & poor. The uneducated vote republican because Lincoln won the war. That is the reason.

[era veteran]

107. Reconstruction

We have had generations of wealth stolen since the War. The yankee financiers had a vested interest in keeping the South uneducated,dependent,& poor. I went to high school in the old Kentucky 5th, which had the lowest graduation rate in the nation. It voted repb even in the dixiecrat days. They voted repub "'cause Lincoln won the war.Why are you and your judge mental ilk so determined to keep us down. Remember 'racism is the tool that keeps them on top and us on the bottom'. The pigs know that to divide is to win. I say piss up a rope..... Woops thought my earlier posting lost but I went to school in KY so it's expected...right?

[anonymous171]

122. The South was pretty democratic up until the 70s.

Without them we would not have had FDR. Remember that.

[Romulox]

5. You can only pander so much, before you lose your soul.

The South represents the absolute worst America has to offer--from racism, anti-Labor sentiments, religious intolerance, class stratification, lack of respect for education, a passive aggressive system of "manners", and phoney sense of "individualism" largely paid for by the US taxpayer.

Yes, all of this exists in the North. But it is celebrated in the South.

[TNDemo]

10. Not by the millions of liberals in the south.

Who are apparently not included under the big democratic umbrella.

[Are_grits_groceries]

12. And we're off!

Let the broad brush bashing now take over. You have just proved my point.

I may go have a beer in celebration of the prejudice in DU at times towards everybody in the area.

I'm just a racist, fundamentalist, anti-union, rich snob with no desire to learn who happens to have manners, a desire not to be like anybody all on your dime.

BTW I was taught those manners. I was told they were to be used as a measure of respect for people. I still use them to this day unless somebody gives me reason not to. When I meet somebody who doesn't deserve the respect, I either don't use them or I say them with a tinge of sarcasm.

[Romulox]

17. There used to be a DUer named "truth hurts alot"

:cry:

"I'm just a racist, fundamentalist, anti-union, rich snob with no desire to learn who happens to have manners, a desire not to be like anybody all on your dime."

This isn't about you. It's about the demonstrable political leanings of millions of people and the representatives they systematically choose.

"BTW I was taught those manners. I was told they were to be used as a measure of respect for people."

You can call me "Sir" all you want, but YOUR governor was lobbying against economic assistance for my state. Somehow, that doesn't seem to outrage you as much as people commenting on this behavior? :shrug:

[Are_grits_groceries]

26. You obviously haven't seen my threads about Sanford. nt

[Romulox]

29. No, I haven't. But like I said, "good manners" on the tongue, and a dagger behind the back

doesn't really fool anybody at this point.

[Are_grits_groceries]

32. When I use the good manners,

I'm not trying to fool any-damn-body. I can feel the ghost of my Mama getting ready to smack me if I don't. It is an ingrained courtesy that is deserved by all people. I don't know people from Adam's housecat, but the manners from me are a sign of respect.

Now if I met Pat Buchanan, he'd know there was no respect at all.

[Romulox]

30. PS: SC gets back $1.38 for every $1 it sends to Washington.

Michigan gets back $.85.

And yet the representatives of South Carolina (Tennessee, et al.) have the unmitigated gall to oppose help to the people of Michigan?

Obviously, the voters will make them pay for this level of hypocrisy...won't they? :wtf:

[Are_grits_groceries]

35. Where can I send you the $.53 for your time today?

I wrote letters and called the goobs that represent this state when the auto industry help was needed. (I use the term represent very lightly).

[Tuesday Afternoon]

23. no offense

but you gave them the platform with which to do it. Or did you visualize this thread going differenetly...........

[Are_grits_groceries]

27. I had hopes. However, I could have posted

the statement "There is at least one true liberal in the South", and it would have started the whole shebang all over again.

Bashing the South makes it easy for some people in a way. They can get all their self-righteous indignation out, and feel justified in doing so. It keeps them from looking around and aiming it at things closer to home.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. true that.

Good luck to you. :hug:

btw: I did give you and K&R :thumbsup:

[Are_grits_groceries]

33. Thanks!

:hug: :hi:

[JVS]

38. Absolutely correct!

[Pavulon]

113. Yeah. I never heard or saw any of that in Mid Town or CT.

they are all enlightened post racial gods of ethics.

[anonymous171]

123. What soul? The democrats lost their soul when they became the corporate party

Now all they offer are social platitudes along with the usual vulgar capitalist shit.

[VMI Dem]

14. Any criticism the South receives is mostly well deserved.

[SIMPLYB1980]

16. Great post Grits!

:thumbsup:

[Jennicut]

18. Hey, I am a Yankee from Connecticut and think the South bashing goes too far

There are more idiots there then normal folks, yes that is true. But there are liberals there. And we have our share of wack jobs here in New England.
Pushing back is hard, I give you credit. Hang in there. There is a lot of work to be done in the South. But we need more liberals there rather then having them give up and leave. As we can see from that map, there is red everywhere in the US.

[Orrex]

21. Everyone born south of the Mason-Dixon line should be summarily executed

Who's with me?!?!?

[JVS]

42. Yar!

[Thothmes]

114. You mean all of those folks in Maryland and Washington DC

should be executed.

[Orrex]

116. YES OF COURSE!!! AND I'M TOTALLY 100% SERIOUS!!!!!!!1!!

WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?

[raccoon]

22. I feel your pain. I'm from the South too.

I know that most of the South is red as a baboon's arse, but not all of us who live here are like that.

"When you broadbrush the South with your comments, you hit me too. "

I second that emotion.

[StreetKnowledge]

25. There are good Southerners. Let's not paint broad brushes.

We know that Florida, Virginia, North Carolina and Arkansas voted for Obama. Obama's three Democratic predecessors were both Southerners. (Bill Clinton from Alabama, Jimmy Carter from Georgia, Lyndon Johnson from Texas.) We have Democrat members of Congress and the Senate from the South. Many of the cities of the South - including Atlanta, Miami, Savannah, Charlotte, Raleigh, Memphis, Houston, Little Rock, Columbia, Charleston, Norfolk and Birmingham - voted for Obama. We probably aren't gonna be able to convince the rednecks to vote for us. But we shouldn't try to paint all southerners as rednecks, because it isn't true - and worse, its insulting to people like Jimmy Carter, I'm sure.

[GoCubsGo]

36. Thank you!

I'm not a Southerner, but I have lived here for the latter half of my life. Many Southerners I know are far more liberal than some of the racist wingnuts I left behind in Chicago. Not only do Southern-bashers insult people like Jimmy Carter, they insult my friends. I never, ever heard any of them insult non-Southerners at all, let alone to the extent they are bashed here. In my eyes, the bashers here aren't much better than those they chose to bash.

And, FWIW, most rednecks don't even vote. All the republicans I know down here are middle and upper class, who live in the suburbs, gated communities, and on their horse farms in the country. The people in the trailer parks don't tend to vote. Sure, they have their opinions, but they don't necessarily act on them.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

28. In California

we've got plenty of ignorant, reactionary, racist jackasses, too. They elect people like Darrell Isas, Duke Cuningham, Jane Harman, Buck McKeon, David Dreier, Duncan Hunter, Dana Rohrabacker, Elton Galleghy, Ronald Reagan and Arnold the terminator. And we've got more mega churches than any other state, including Rick Warren's Saddleback monstrosity.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Are_grits_groceries]

37. I don't have a Confederate flag.

Most people I know don't. I need to go get my white robes and hood pressed however.:sarcasm:

[dysfunctional press]

40. plenty of people down there do- and they fly/wear them with great pride.

and they tarnish the reputation of the whole region.

[Are_grits_groceries]

44. And how long have you traveled in the region,

and where were your journeys? Did you keep a tally?

[dysfunctional press]

48. i haven't been back there in 20 years...

and have no desire to return.

the only side that's still 'fighting' the civil war are the losers.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dappleganger]

58. You haven't been here in 20 years?

You really need to get out more often, there's a whole world outside of your little bubble that's left you far behind.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Thothmes]

115. You must have missed some of the big

CW reenactments at Gettysburg, Antietam in the past and this weekend at Cedar Creek. Lots and Lots of folks in Blue uniforms still "fighting" the Civil War.

[SIMPLYB1980]

54. You should worry about your own state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

"One of these teachers (Miss Allen of Illinois), whose school was at Cotton Gin Port in Monroe County, was visited ... between one and two o'clock in the morning on March 1871, by about fifty men mounted and disguised. Each man wore a long white robe and his face was covered by a loose mask with scarlet stripes. She was ordered to get up and dress which she did at once and then admitted to her room the captain and lieutenant who in addition to the usual disguise had long horns on their heads and a sort of device in front. The lieutenant had a pistol in his hand and he and the captain sat down while eight or ten men stood inside the door and the porch was full. They treated her "gentlemanly and quietly" but complained of the heavy school-tax, said she must stop teaching and go away and warned her that they never gave a second notice. She heeded the warning and left the county."

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SIMPLYB1980]

63. You are the one still bashing the South for the Civil War, and

racism in general. What's the matter don't want to look at the racism in your state?

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/04/30/ku-klux-klan-flag/



Man Defends Front Yard Display Of Ku Klux Klan Flag

The Hawk Eye

April 22, 2009

Bruce “Rebel” Ruberg, who proudly displays a KKK flag next to a Confederate battle flag in front of his house, said he supports the KKK “for the simple fact that you got the NAACP, you got Black History Month…but a white man says one thing about Mexicans or blacks and you’re instantly a racist.”

http://www.thehawkeye.com/Story/KKK-042209

"I believe in what the Ku Klux Klan is trying to do for the simple fact that you got the NAACP, you got Black History Month, you got Ms. Black America and black colleges, but a white man says one thing about Mexicans or blacks and you're instantly a racist," Ruberg said.

Not until an apparent complaint about the flag surfaced did Ruberg become the center of attention when a Quad Cities television news crew came knocking on his door. Soon, his face and views flooded the local airwaves.

Ruberg agrees it's a tough argument, but noted that the Klan of the past does not compare to the Klan of the present, which he said campaigns and fights for border security.

"I'm not a racist per se," he said. "I just believe America needs to wake up, and we need to start watching our borders. This is crazy what's going on here, and our government is not doing anything about it."

[dysfunctional press]

65. where have i "based" the south for the civil war...?

except possibly for the morans that think that it's still being waged?
(like the ones who post kkk articles from 1871...:rofl: )

[SIMPLYB1980]

66. Keep dancing.

[dysfunctional press]

67. thanks, i get that a lot.

awesomeness is so hard to hide after all.

[SIMPLYB1980]

73. Do you deny that racism is everywhere in America?

You can find it in Cali.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/17/gary-frago-california-cou_n_238040.html

"I made a mistake," he said of the e-mails, circulated from October 2008 to February 2009. "It was a mistake I shouldn't have made and I apologize for it. I wasn't being racist, I was just passing on e-mails."

You can find it in New York.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/new-york-post-chimp-carto_n_167841.html

A cartoon likening the author of the stimulus bill, perhaps President Barack Obama, with a rabid chimpanzee graced the pages of the New York Post on Wednesday.

The drawing, from famed cartoonist Sean Delonas, is rife with violent imagery and racial undertones. In it, two befuddled-looking police officers holding guns look over the dead and bleeding chimpanzee that attacked a woman in Stamford, Connecticut.

"They'll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill," reads the caption.

And you never did confront the post I made from the racist KKK fuckers in your own state.

[dysfunctional press]

77. of course it's everywhere...

but it's no secret that the low educational standards are concentrated in the non-northern parts of the country.

as to the kkk post you made in reference to illinois- the reason i disregarded it is because it's dated from 1871...around here we don't really classify those kinds of things as pertinent current events. i realize that may be different than the way long-past things are viewed in other non-northern parts of the country, where the civil war is still being fought in many people's...minds?(for lack of a better word).

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

80. i'm still waiting for you to respond....

and show me where i had "based" the south for the civil war.

[SIMPLYB1980]

83. Well you have had to many posts deleted for me to

quote it. I also noticed that you have had to change a typo or two in your own posts. This truly is fun. You are making a fool of yourself and I should just stop replying to you, but let's see how much further we can go with this.

http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2009/07/is-obama-a-racist.html

"From the roots of Obama’s enmity toward white people sprang his gratuitous attack on Cambridge Police Sergeant James Crowley. Obama declared that the sergeant “acted stupidly” while doing his duty, when all Obama knew, admittedly, was that the sergeant was white and the person arrested, Obama’s friend Harvard Processor Henry Gates, was black. Without bothering to learn the facts, Obama used the power of his position as President of the United States to demonize an American citizen because of his race. Details of the arrest are in the article “Obama Plays the Race Card” by Ronald Kessler that is on the Internet at:"

[dysfunctional press]

97. "to many"? none of those posts were bashing the south for the civil war.

i might have made reference to the people that are still fighting that war- but nothing about the actual civil war nor that era.
try again.

btw- the term you were looking for is "too many". southern "education"?

[SIMPLYB1980]

102. LOL. Says the person who's posts

were deleted.

[dysfunctional press]

118. yours were deleted too.

lot of that going around.

[SIMPLYB1980]

120. My post was deleted because I said.

"This post Fool" That's against DU rules I knew it would be deleted. Why were several of your posts deleted?

[dysfunctional press]

75. 1871...?

is that really what passes for "current events" where you come from...?

i'm guessing that it does.

[Dappleganger]

56. wow

the ignorance in your post is astonishing.

I don't see anymore flying confederate flags down here than one finds in rural NY or PA.

[dysfunctional press]

61. try looking on the bumpers and rear windows of pick-up trucks...

generally, right below the gun rack.

[Dappleganger]

62. Yep,

I've seen them all over PA and NY state. No more so than down here in FL.

Your opinion is ill-informed.

[dysfunctional press]

64. apparently "de-nile" isn't just a river in egypt...

why are you so touchy about the civil war heritage that so many southerners are so proud of? :shrug:

[Are_grits_groceries]

70. You have apparently aimed your low education posts at me.

You don't know me or what my educational background is.

As for Southern heritage, I don't mention it because it is a code to a lot of people for racism and acceptance that slavery is a good thing. Left and right see those words as approval of those things.

[dysfunctional press]

79. are you somehow the personification of the entire south?

if so, your subject line would be correct.

if not, it isn't. (or "ain't" if you prefer.)

[PVnRT]

92. You're the one who hasn't been down here in 20 years

yet you're suddenly the expert on what's on bumper stickers and the like.

Whatever, chief. Time to admit you're wrong and have no clue what you're talking about.

[dysfunctional press]

98. so- it's your claim that there are no longer any confederate flag stickers on vehicles in the south?

is that your contention?

[PVnRT]

104. Did I say that? No.

Is it your claim that the majority of vehicles down here have confederate flag bumper stickers? Because that's easily false, despite whatever nonsense preconceptions you have.

[PVnRT]

91. Funny, I saw more confederate flags up in Indiana

than I saw when I moved down to Kentucky.

[dysfunctional press]

99. if you extend the mason-dixon line west- it would cut indiana in half

so that's no real surprise.

[PVnRT]

105. You know, seeing as your profile says you live out west of Chicago

your attitude is really no surprise at all.

[dysfunctional press]

119. um....o-kay...

:shrug:

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Are_grits_groceries]

41. Nope.

I'm just like a modern Snopes. I chew tobacco, sit on the porch, and wonder what teevee show I can watch on my satellite dish after supper.

[blindpig]

45. nice

and fuck the arrogant Yankees. I'd bet you can find more 'stars&bars' in 'Pennsyl-tucky' or southern Indiana.

Anecdotal, but I've seen less in recent years in these parts, and this is an area where the Klan is still active, though a cipher.

[proteus_lives]

90. Yep.

I live in Indiana and I've lived in Texas but I've seen way more Confederate stuff in Indiana then I ever saw in Texas.

[OneGrassRoot]

43. I find your posts to be reasonable and very insightful....

As someone who is currently living in the South, and has always had family in the Deep South, yet grew up and identify as a Yankee, I am guilty of bashing southerners.

Your points are well taken. :)

The line below is spot on, about so many issues. So many here seem to attack one another rather than turn their anger into doing something productive.

Then again, some debate because that is what they do: they debate for the sake of debate. Others are more passionate or have deep convictions about whatever issue is being discussed. Still, I really wish we could do without the attack mode here and display more respect toward one another.


"DU can be a sanctuary. It can also be just another place to get bashed..."

Edit for typos :)

[Are_grits_groceries]

47. Debate is one thing.

Constant attack threads are another.

Don't tell anyone that you think I can be reasonable and insightful. It will ruin my Southern image.:hi:

[Are_grits_groceries]

53. What constructive purpose does it serve

to be constantly bashing the South on DU???

Do you think we don't know what is going on???

I hear about it or see it every day in a different form from the other side. At least my hearing is balanced by getting it from the left and the right.

I feel like I am at my aunt's house fighting all my relatives, but I'm returning fire in another direction.

[Dappleganger]

57. In total agreement with your thoughts on this.

It seems to be a waste of time here to even attempt to dismantle the prejudice.

[AspenRose]

69. Now you know how Obama feels

Catching it from both sides :hide:

Seriously, though...I appreciate you Grits. :hug:

I was raised in Texas and, save for visiting relatives, have absolutely no desire to return. EVER.

But for folks like you, I have nothing but respect. Keep fighting the good fight. :patriot:

[Are_grits_groceries]

71. Thanks!

Some people here see South bashing as a blood sport. I think there should be a South bashing forum.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

74. I have also asked for one. You are not alone. I have no problem

go ahead bash the south, reahash the war...just put it in a forum and let them have at it.

[WolverineDG]

84. It's an excuse so they don't have to pony up money to help Dem candidates down here

or get off their fat, lazy asses & come help us work the polls. They might break a finger nail or something...

dg

[HamdenRice]

68. I remember driving through Richmond in the 1960s. Parts were still destroyed from the war.

We used to drive to my grandma's farm in south central Virginia and had to pass through Richmond. That was before the belt around the city was built. You went right into central Richmond (Hull Street?). I remember asking why some parts were abandoned and looked burned out and my father and uncles would say those are parts that were destroyed during the civil war.

So I think a lot of older southerners lived with that humiliation for a long time without northerners telling them about it.

[SidneyCarton]

76. If a second Civil War were to occur (hypothetically speaking, of course)

Idiotic regionalist bigots like this are as much to blame as any recalcitrant Southerners. The attitudes of the South are a problem, but responses like this only make things worse, by joining otherwise reasonable Southerners with the radicals, as each both feel threatened and insulted by such vicious condesension and bashing.

My ancestors are from the South, I deplore much of the vicious legacy of that region, but I realize fully that such stereotypes are not the whole story. For every Klansman, racist and bigot there are other people who are trying to get by in a region that has rarely been kind to the weak or the timid.

K&R

[WolverineDG]

81. It's okay on DU to be an anti-anything South/redstate bigot

Stuff that would get you tombstoned if deemed homophobic or racist gets free reign here unless people like you & me start hitting alert (and sometimes even not then).

dg

[Dappleganger]

110. +2

[NoPasaran]

85. We shouldn't view the Civil War in solely North/South terms

I prefer to see a conflict between the Federal Union and elements in some of the southern states who wished to destroy that union and set up their own government. While of course the great majority of federal troops were from the North, Southern Unionists in all of Secessia save South Carolina volunteered in sufficient numbers to be formed into their own battalions and regiments to fight in support of the legitimate government. In addition to those southern white men (plus the Hispanic Second Texas Cavalry) must be added many of the three hundred thousand African Americans who volunteered to fight for the Union and who furnished more than 160 regiments. And of course there were also thousands upon thousands of slaves who "self-liberated" themselves, running away from bondage, depriving the secessionists of their labor and in many cases contributing to the Union war effort.

[WolverineDG]

96. uh oh

Stop it with the logic & facts....messes up the anti-Southern bigots whining when you do that!!!!

dg

[Texasgal]

87. Funny.. the civil war is discussed

way more here on DU than a lifetime in Texas. :shrug:

[proteus_lives]

93. Great Post!

I hate state and region bashing.

I've lived in the South and the North and I don't either region is "better" then the other. In fact I've never been to a place that is 100% positive or negative.

South-bashing is unacceptable.

[PVnRT]

94. K&R

Of course, people in Georgia still don't think Kentucky is in the south, but if it's south of the Ohio, it counts for me.

[supernova]

101. It always amazes me

that the people on DU who engage in the most South-bashing openly admit they haven't been here in 20+ years.

Lordy, frozen in time, much?

Get with the program you whiners. We've moved past black/white tensions to black&white vs hispanic tensions. And sometimes b&w vs h vs asian tensions.

:rofl:

In other words, our racial tensions have gone global, along with the rest of the economy.

And another thing. It's way too easy to be liberal in CA or the Pacific NW or in the NE. It doesn't cost you a thing. Whoop dee do for you.

Here, being liberal means a lot. It means you are willing to stand out from your friends, relatives, other classmates you grew up with. It means you have to physically look them in the eye, and say "I know we are capable of much more than we are living."

Come on down and try it sometime. You might be amazed.

:hi:

edit: Thank you for the thread, _Grits_! ;-)

[WolverineDG]

108. It doesn't cost you a thing. Whoop dee do for you.

:spray: :rofl:

So true, so true.

dg

[MilesColtrane]

103. I never had anyone on Ignore for the better part of eight years here.

The most ugly South-bashers have something of which to be proud. They made me use the Ignore function for the first time.

[Dappleganger]

111. Thanks for that reminder...

preferring to not be surrounded by bigotry, I used it again today. :)

[Dappleganger]

112. Remind me next election to sit that one out...

and let ya'll elect that democrat prez on your own.

[troubledamerican]

124. John Wilkes Booth shouted "Sic Semper Tyrannus"

exactly what today's Republicans say, that Obama is a tyrant.