Why don't they shoot the baloon with a BB gun?

[ret5hd]

Let the helium leak out.

[BuyingThyme]

1. What if it pops?

[ret5hd]

7. Mylar doesn't "pop" like a latex baloon does.

[armyowalgreens]

32. It does tear when a hole is introduced under high pressure.

[ddeclue]

8. It won't "pop"...the mylar is plenty sturdy and it's not under any real pressure.

[BuyingThyme]

13. It's my understanding that it's under enough pressure to lift a child.

[ddeclue]

16. Balloons don't lift based on their internal pressure - they use BOUYANCY - the lower the pressure

the better.

The goal is to have the lowest density of gas possible with the highest volume. It's the same principle that ships use (Archimedes).

So the balloon is under very minimal pressue, just enough to maintain it's internal volume, slightly more than atmospheric. Anything higher simply decreases the balloon's lifting power.

Doug D.
Bachelor of Aerospace Engineering, Georgia Tech
Private Pilot Single Engine Land, FAA

[BuyingThyme]

18. In this context, buoyancy and pressure are generally the same thing.

The upward pressure on the balloon exceeds the weight of the child. That's why he's airborne.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. LOL, wut?

[BuyingThyme]

22. What part did you not understand? I might be able to help you.

But it's very possible that you're not capable of getting this.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Oh, I understand all of it.

It's just that you're wrong.

[BuyingThyme]

26. Tell me how. I bet you can't.

I'll bet you anything that you're just about to be owned. Again.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Well, for starters: pressure and bouyancy are two different things.

Context doesn't matter. They're two completely different things.

Secondly, the pressure on the inside of a partially inflated as the pressure on the outside.

Third, the pressure on the bottom of the balloon is the same as the pressure on the top of the balloon.

I mean, I understand how global warming deniers aren't going to be on top of things when it comes to science. But c'mon. This is jr. high level physics we're talking here.

[BuyingThyme]

29. Wow. I don't' even have to say much to own you on this one.

Look, my little friend. You're now confusing state of the gas in the balloon with the state of the balloon itself. This makes for another embarrassing failure on your part. But I will explain anyways.

You see, the upward pressure being exerted on the balloon is what's holding it up. If one were to shoot a BB at the top part of the balloon, where the pressure is concentrated, it will be infinitely more likely to burst that if one were shoot a BB at the bottom of the balloon.

Before we proceed, do you understand so far?

[ddeclue]

31. Between you and me I'm the one with the aerospace engineering degree

and the pilot's license - so NO you are simply wrong - the pressure is uniform throughout the balloon because it has to be according to some basic laws of statistical thermodynamics of which you are obviously unaware.

Stop pretending you know what you are talking about when you clearly don't.

[BuyingThyme]

36. Wow. This is going to be extra embarrassing for you, with the degrees and all.

Shall we start with a dictionary definition of BUOYANCY? I find that when I trick people into debating dictionaries, they tend to surrender before long. Here's a good one:

- upward pressure exerted by the fluid in which a body is immersed.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Buoyancy?o=

It looks like these moonbats at the dictionary company are tryigng to equate buoyancy with something called "upward pressure."

[ddeclue]

37. That is NOT what people are concerned about and you need to learn how miniscule the pressure

differential actually is - it is meaningless. The surface area of the balloon is on the order of several thousand square feet and the total lifting force is around 120 lb. The differential WHICH IS NOT what people are concerned about is less than 0.1 lb per square foot or not even 0.01 PSI not even measurable without special scientific instruments.

Now GO Look in the mirror if you want to see someone who is embarassed.

People associate the INTERNAL pressure of the balloon with its lifting power INCORRECTLY and they had some mistaken notion that it was going to "pop" if someone shot at it - NOT true.

Thanks for playing but there's a reason why I'm a degreed aerospace engineer and pilot and why you're just a blow hard on an internet board.

Doug D.

[BuyingThyme]

41. We're not talking about a "pressure differential." We're talking about upward pressure.

There's enough upward pressure on the balloon to lift a child. ALL of that pressure is being exerted on the balloon.

Out of curiosity, what do you think is suspending that child in midair?

[ddeclue]

44. Yes we ARE talking about a pressure differential between the upper and lower surfaces of the balloon

This pressure differential between the upper and lower surfaces of the balloon integrated over the surface area of the balloon is what constitutes the bouyant force holding up the balloon and the differential is very very small as I've pointed out.

Sorry if you haven't taken multivariable calculus yet.

:crazy:

[BuyingThyme]

54. Please try to understand:

If you try to poke your finger through a plastic bag, it will eventually break through. The bag will break because of the pressure being exterted on it by your finger. It has nothing to do with the air on the outside of the bag.

[ddeclue]

59. Now you are changing your argument. You were claiming that the

pressure differential between the top and bottom of the balloon were so extreme that if I poked on one particular end of it it would be much more likely to rupture - which isn't true.

Please go find another forum to post in because you are really wasting everyone's time with your 3rd grade understanding of science.

The likelihood of a balloon explosively rupturing (popping) is very much a function of the pressure difference between the inside and outside of the balloon. Only highly pressurized vessels explosively rupture.

[BuyingThyme]

73. No, I repeatedly tried to keep you from doing that.

I tried to explain this to you as if you were six years old, but perhaps I should have tried for four.

[ddeclue]

75. Waste of everyone's Thyme to try and reason with you...

:crazy:

[Toric lens]

64. I found this discussion to be fascinating! You are of course, right.

You probably should have explained how there aren't really any aerodynamics at work here, there is no (or very close to zero) relative motion between the balloon and the air. What's going on as you tried to explain but maybe not in simple enough terms, is that the fluid inside the balloon is much lighter than air so it floats just like a cork floats on water. I don't think there was more than 2 or 3 dynes/cc pressure differential inside the envelope.

[ddeclue]

66. Technically bouyancy is an aerostatic force but it is within the realm of

the larger study of aerodynamics and is accounted for in Navier Stokes

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. You probably mean the lift. The upward force.

The upward force being buoyancy.

Mylar balloons do not pop when punctured, they leak. If they do leak helium, the helium is exchanged for air. The pressure remains the same, however the density increases and the buoyancy decreases. That's why things float after all. They're less dense then the surrounding medium.

It does not matter where the balloon is punctured whatsoever.

"Before we proceed, do you understand so far?"

Sure do. By all means continue.

:popcorn:

[BuyingThyme]

38. No, lift is something else that I won't be able to explain to you in the time allotted.

But you're about to be owned on the rest of your nonsense.

In addition to having trouble with this whole pressure thing, as has already been proven, you are incapable of understanding the mylar-dynamic. Luckily I'm here to explain it.

You see, you are using the vast knowledge achieved by a child who played with balloons. You discovered that when you poked a hole in your little mylar toy, it didn't "pop." Good work. But this is what you are not yet capable of understanding:

When you popped your little toy, the pressure on the balloon was quickly negated. But when you puncture a mylar balloon which is suspending a child, the pressure will not subside and the stability of the balloon will be jeopardized.

You see, mylar is not really all that stable. You just think it is because it behaves differently than your rubber balloons. But truth be told, mylar has a tendency to tear at a puncture point, even under the SLIGHTEST bit of pressure.

Owned again.

[ddeclue]

42. You really don't know what you're talking about and you continue to show it.

The biggger the balloon the longer it will take to equalize pressures given the same size hole. The balloon in question was actually under very minimal pressure (basically just a tiny bit higher than atmospheric is all that is required) and would NOT rupture or burst as you incorrectly claim. There has to be a relatively high pressure diffential between the internal pressure of the balloon and the ambient pressure of the air surrounding it for the necessary forces to be generated to rupture the balloon.

Contrary to your silly assumptions, it's really only a child's balloon that "pops" because it is under high pressure.

:crazy:

Doug D.

[BuyingThyme]

47. You did it again! This is not about the equalization of pressure!

This is about the upward pressure which is suspending a child in midair.

And yes, yet again, with your child's balloon comment, you show that you have not even inched closer to understanding any of this. No offense, but you got screwed on all those degrees.

[ddeclue]

53. Actually you fail on basic physics.

If something is neutrally bouyant and "suspended" in mid air it is NOT accelerating so therefore all forces on the object must be IN BALANCE. F=ma (technically F=d(mv)/dt) ring a bell?

The miniscule differential pressure between the upper and lower surfaces of the balloon when integrated over the surface of the balloon constitutes the bouyant lift force on the balloon which counter acts the gravitational force on the balloon.

This pressure differential however is so small as to be negligible as far as structural effects (less than 0.01 PSI)

The INTERNAL pressure of the balloon is going to be essentially ambient pressure because anything more is just a waste of good helium and actually REDUCES the balloons bouyancy.

There is simply no way such a full sized balloon like the one today can pop.

Toy balloons are routinely inflated to pressures well over ambient which is the only reason they pop - when they are penetrated by a pin a sonic stream of air initially comes out of the hole which generates great force at the initial hole location which causes it to rupture and then the pressure of the balloon is suddenly released in an overpressure wave similar to an explosion or gun shot or sonic boom which we here as a loud pop or boom.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Are you working on a time limit?

"You see, you are using the vast knowledge achieved by a child who played with balloons. "

No, just all my physics classes.

"When you popped your little toy, the pressure on the balloon was quickly negated. But when you puncture a mylar balloon which is suspending a child, the pressure will not subside and the stability of the balloon will be jeopardized. "

What pressure on the inside? The pressure on the inside is the same as the pressure on the outside. If the pressure were greater on the inside, the balloon would be fully inflated rather than partially inflated.

Consider a hot air balloon. Big holes on the top and bottom. The whole time it's in the air. It stays up not because of positive pressure but because the air inside is less dense then the air outside.

Toy balloons work under the exact same physics as big toy balloons with kids that may or may not be inside them.

"But truth be told, mylar has a tendency to tear at a puncture point, even under the SLIGHTEST bit of pressure."

Doesn't that contradict your earlier claim about pressure differences? Anyways. Mylar balloons don't pop, they tear. Rubber balloons pop because the pressure on the inside is greater than the pressure on the outside. The air inside is equal to the air pressure, plus the pressure needed to overcome the elasticity of the rubber balloon as it stretches.

[ddeclue]

46. BuyingThyme just loves to chime in on subjects he/she knows nothing about.

His/her lack of knowledge is apparent to those of us who actually bothered to get an aerospace engineering degree and pilot's license.

:crazy:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. Yes, I'm familiar on his comments on global warming.

[BuyingThyme]

55. Yes, I'm skeptical.

That drives you cracy because you never learned to think for yourself.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Says the guy who doesn't understand basic physics.

[BuyingThyme]

80. Holy Jeezus. You don't even understand that things under stress tend to break.

You're not going to be ready for physics for a long long time.

[ddeclue]

82. Physics for the Insane Written by BuyingThyme...

The balloon was under NO meaningful stress and was in NO danger of breaking even if shot.

[BuyingThyme]

110. Of course not. It just doesn't make sense.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

83. Things only break under stress when the stress exceeds the tolerance.

Things are constantly under stress and never break.

Even your strawmen don't understand physics.

[BuyingThyme]

87. They might break if you shoot a BB into them.

But it looks like you're finally coming along. See how easy it is to think?

[ddeclue]

90. NO they won't..it is doubtful a BB could even penetrate the mylar used.

It certainly wouldn't rupture it.

Stop wasting people's THYME.

Are you lonely or something? Why do you feel the need to keep coming back with stupid idea after stupid idea?

[BuyingThyme]

96. I'm not the one who suggested shooting a BB at a balloon which is suspending a child.

Now you're projecting. Let's call it progress.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BuyingThyme]

106. You're just saying that because you want all of this to be deleted.

I understand why you're embarrassed... With the degrees and all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. The mylar, sure.

That was the point. Create a small leak in the balloon. Helium slowly leaks. The balloon slowly descends.

As it turned out, there already was a small leak in the balloon. Helium slowly leaked. The balloon slowly descended.

[BuyingThyme]

51. Again you're conflating the pressure on the gas with the pressure on the balloon.

Don't do that.

An if you really want to do lift, we can. Lift is generally a function of airflow over a wing.

[ddeclue]

56. Thanks for showing what you don't know again.

Lift is lift - it can be generated through dynamic forces such as air passing over an airfoil OR it can be created through bouyancy which is considered static lift.

And you don't make any sense at all - because you don't know what you are talking about.

There isn't pressure ON the gas - pressure is a property OF the gas itself and also of the gas in the surrounding atmosphere.

Pressures is a measure of the random kinetic energy of the molecules of gas divided by the surface area that the gas occupies.

:crazy:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Nope.

"An if you really want to do lift, we can. Lift is generally a function of airflow over a wing."

Lift is the force that makes things go up as opposed to gravity which is a force that makes things go down. In the context of air flowing over an airfoil, then yes lift is a function of airflow over that airfoil.

Which is probably where your original confusion comes from. A misunderstanding of how the Bernoulli Principle is involved in lift of winged aircraft.

[BuyingThyme]

77. So what was you point about lift?

(Thanks for taking the time to look it up, by the way.)

[ddeclue]

81. His point is that there are two different kinds of lift.

Give up already. You've been shown to be wrong stop coming back around an hour later to try and squeeze in the last word.

[BuyingThyme]

89. All I've proven is that there are some very simple people here.

[ddeclue]

91. Stop wasting everyone's time and being a TROLL.

[BuyingThyme]

99. Teaching basic reality is not trolling.

It just seems that way because you've been discredited so badly.

[ddeclue]

100. We'll let you know when you approach basic reality.

http://www.cshyde.com/Films/mylarfilm.htm

Data Sheet - Mylar® Film

Property Thickness Value Units Test
OPTICAL
Haze 48 4 % ASTM D1003
Haze 75 15 % ASTM D1003
Haze 92 16 % ASTM D1003
Haze 142 9 - 29 % ASTM D1003
Haze 200 13 - 37 % ASTM D1003
Haze 300 14 - 50 % ASTM D1003
Haze 400 20 - 55 % ASTM D1003
Haze 500 21 - 60 % ASTM D1003
PHYSICAL
Elongation at Break MD 48 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 75 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 92 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 142 125 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 200 135 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 300 135 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 400 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 500 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 750 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 900 150 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 1000 150 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 1400 170 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 48 70 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 75 90 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 92 90 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 142 100 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 200 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 300 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 400 115 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 500 115 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 750 115 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 900 130 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 1000 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 1400 170 % ASTM D882A
Modulus 48 - 1400 507 kpsi ASTM D822
Tensile Strength MD 48 26 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 75 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 92 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 142 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 200 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 300 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 400 26 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 500 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 750 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 900 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 1000 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 1400 26 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 48 32 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 75 34 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 92 34 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 142 34 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 200 33 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 300 31 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 400 30 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 500 30 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 750 30 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 900 29 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 1000 29 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 1400 25 kpsi ASTM D882A
Yield (nominal) 48 41,300 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 75 26,500 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 92 21,500 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 142 14,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 200 9,900 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 300 6,600 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 400 5,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 500 4,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 750 2,600 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 900 2,200 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 1000 2,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 1400 1,400 in²/lb

[BuyingThyme]

105. Wow. Look at all the numbers and stuff. You sure must be smart.

[Statistical]

45. No actually his explanation was perfect.

The balloon rises because helium is more buoyant than air. If you make a hole in the balloon helium will be exchanged for air as it does the average buoyancy relative to air will decrease which will reducing the lifting capacity on the balloon when the lifting capacity of the balloon is less than the weight of the balloon and anything attached it will descend. Balloon are under some pressure but it isn't substantial and balloons still have lifting capacity when partially inflated. The pressure is equal on all parts of the balloon. Pressure doesn't make a balloon rise, the fact that the helium is lighter than air does. Too much pressure increases the density on the helium and REDUCES lifting capacity.

The sad thing is every single one of your posts has something to do with "owning". Generally speaking you need to be correct before you own someone. If you spent a little more time studying and less time worrying about who is going to get owned you might not have this problem.

A balloon floating in air is no different than a ship floating in water. The ship displaces water with air which is more buoyant. The balloon displaces air with helium which is more buoyant.

[BuyingThyme]

50. So you too believe that there is not pressure being exerted on the balloon and that

if you were to shoot it, there would be no worries because the balloon would act just the same as if it were not even inflated? It would just puncture the balloon and would not jeopardize the stability?

You guys are bizarre. It's really like trying to communicate with small children

[Statistical]

52. I never said the balloon was under no pressure....

the amount of pressure the balloon is under is not substantial. Mylar balloons develop holes and tears all the time and they rarely pop.

Density increases with pressure. The more pressure the helium is under the more compressed it is and thus it weighs more. The more it weighs relative to air the less lifting capacity it has.

There is no reason anyone would ever fill balloons to substantial pressure as doing so would require more helium, put more stress on the balloon and the end result would be less lifting capacity.

[BuyingThyme]

60. The weight of the child is what's causing the pressure on the surface of the balloon.

Just try to think for a moment. It's no different than the pressure exerted on a string. If you shoot at a string which happens to be suspending a child, you might expect the string to break, causing the child to fall to the ground and die. Does that make sense to you?

This is just amazing.

[ddeclue]

63. Do the math (if you can)

60 lb child / 2000 square foot surface area = 0.03 lb/square ft = 0.000015 PSI.

You can't even measure that pressure without a special pressure gauge from Scanivalve or PSI that costs thousands of dollars.

That is the differential in pressure acting on the surface of the balloon between the top and bottom surfaces which provides the lifting force.


The internal pressure of the ballooon in order to maximize its lifting capability will be the same as ambient pressure because anything more will simply reduce the bouyancy of the balloon and reduce its lifting capacity by increasing the density of the gas contained by the balloon's internal volume.

[BuyingThyme]

84. Don't try to pretend that you're doing math that is somehow applicable to

the question of whether or not shooting a BB into mylar under stress might cause the mylar to tear (thus causing a balloon to fall).

You're a long long long way from doing the math part.

[ddeclue]

88. NO actually THAT is ACTUALLY the relevant math..

that you don't understand that fact shows your ignorance of the subject.

[BuyingThyme]

92. You can't even understand that there is more stress on the top of the balloon

than on the bottom. You have to figure out why before you can move on to the math. But I'm pretty sure you're not capable of understanding why.

[ddeclue]

95. You are an idiotic troll. The pressure differential between the top and bottom is negligible

SO small in fact that it can't be measured without special instruments that cost thousands of dollars. The stress involved (less than 0.001 PSI) is so much smaller (by many orders of magnitude) than the material is capable of handling that your rambling on about it is utterly preposterous:

http://www.cshyde.com/Films/mylarfilm.htm

Data Sheet - Mylar® Film

Property Thickness Value Units Test
OPTICAL
Haze 48 4 % ASTM D1003
Haze 75 15 % ASTM D1003
Haze 92 16 % ASTM D1003
Haze 142 9 - 29 % ASTM D1003
Haze 200 13 - 37 % ASTM D1003
Haze 300 14 - 50 % ASTM D1003
Haze 400 20 - 55 % ASTM D1003
Haze 500 21 - 60 % ASTM D1003
PHYSICAL
Elongation at Break MD 48 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 75 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 92 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 142 125 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 200 135 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 300 135 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 400 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 500 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 750 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 900 150 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 1000 150 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 1400 170 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 48 70 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 75 90 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 92 90 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 142 100 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 200 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 300 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 400 115 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 500 115 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 750 115 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 900 130 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 1000 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 1400 170 % ASTM D882A
Modulus 48 - 1400 507 kpsi ASTM D822
Tensile Strength MD 48 26 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 75 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 92 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 142 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 200 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 300 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 400 26 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 500 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 750 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 900 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 1000 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 1400 26 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 48 32 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 75 34 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 92 34 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 142 34 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 200 33 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 300 31 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 400 30 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 500 30 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 750 30 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 900 29 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 1000 29 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 1400 25 kpsi ASTM D882A
Yield (nominal) 48 41,300 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 75 26,500 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 92 21,500 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 142 14,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 200 9,900 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 300 6,600 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 400 5,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 500 4,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 750 2,600 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 900 2,200 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 1000 2,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 1400 1,400 in²/lb

[BuyingThyme]

101. And yes, yes, yet again you conflate gas pressure with the pressure exerted on the balloon.

How many times will you do this before you realize how simple you are?

[ddeclue]

103. You are an idiot and don't have any clue how the two are interrelated.

and we are tired of your trollery. We've already proven you wrong. You're just too dense to understand it.

:crazy:

[BuyingThyme]

107. I've proven that you can't grasp even the simplest concepts.

[Zix]

113. By simply saying things, of course, they become true!

What genius! Why didn't I try this before?

[ddeclue]

62. EXACTLY! DING DING DING!

Of course our science challenged friend here doesn't get it.

I think we are arguing with a 12 year old...

:crazy:

[ddeclue]

61. You are the only one with a small child's understanding of science here.

[Zix]

49. Did you inhale some of that helium?

I have this mental image of your voice getting more and more squeaky as you talk.

[BuyingThyme]

86. That's because you're not able to understand people who do not talk in cartoon voices.

This is evidenced by your inability to understand what happens when one shoots a BB into a mylar balloon which is suspending a child.

[anigbrowl]

108. Says the person with the Spongebob avatar

I'm having great fun reading this thread, but it's not because you're right,

[BuyingThyme]

109. No, it's because you, like them, believe

that the pressure on the balloon would be the same were there not a child in it.

This is surprisingly too complicated for some.

[anigbrowl]

111. Fascinating. It comes as news to me that I thought that. what else do I think?

[BuyingThyme]

117. You don't think.

You let others tell you what to believe and then you attack.

[Zix]

112. I think you're getting us all mixed up. Maybe check usernames before you reply? :D

BTW, you're approaching an almost bat-like squeak, now. Will you navigate your way around these subthreads with sonar?

[Statistical]

40. wtf?

In what parallel (or not so parallel universe) do those laws of physics apply because it sure as hell isn't our universe.

[BuyingThyme]

74. I haven't discussed any laws of physics.

But I understand why you had to pretend that you're well versed on the subject. Pretending is much easier than participating.

[ddeclue]

76. You've been thoroughly trounced and now you are engaging in passive aggressive nonsense

since you've run out of imaginary science.

[BuyingThyme]

93. Hell, you can't even be taught why plastic bags break when you

stick a finger through them. It's just amazing to me that somebody gave you a degree in something.

[ddeclue]

97. Pressure differential is < 0.001 PSI. Tensile strength for mylar is in the tens of thousands of PSI

You are an idiot troll. Point proven.

http://www.cshyde.com/Films/mylarfilm.htm


Data Sheet - Mylar® Film

Property Thickness Value Units Test
OPTICAL
Haze 48 4 % ASTM D1003
Haze 75 15 % ASTM D1003
Haze 92 16 % ASTM D1003
Haze 142 9 - 29 % ASTM D1003
Haze 200 13 - 37 % ASTM D1003
Haze 300 14 - 50 % ASTM D1003
Haze 400 20 - 55 % ASTM D1003
Haze 500 21 - 60 % ASTM D1003
PHYSICAL
Elongation at Break MD 48 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 75 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 92 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 142 125 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 200 135 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 300 135 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 400 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 500 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 750 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 900 150 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 1000 150 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break MD 1400 170 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 48 70 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 75 90 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 92 90 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 142 100 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 200 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 300 110 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 400 115 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 500 115 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 750 115 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 900 130 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 1000 140 % ASTM D882A
Elongation at Break TD 1400 170 % ASTM D882A
Modulus 48 - 1400 507 kpsi ASTM D822
Tensile Strength MD 48 26 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 75 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 92 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 142 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 200 28 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 300 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 400 26 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 500 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 750 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 900 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 1000 27 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength MD 1400 26 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 48 32 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 75 34 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 92 34 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 142 34 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 200 33 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 300 31 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 400 30 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 500 30 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 750 30 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 900 29 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 1000 29 kpsi ASTM D882A
Tensile Strength TD 1400 25 kpsi ASTM D882A
Yield (nominal) 48 41,300 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 75 26,500 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 92 21,500 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 142 14,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 200 9,900 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 300 6,600 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 400 5,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 500 4,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 750 2,600 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 900 2,200 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 1000 2,000 in²/lb
Yield (nominal) 1400 1,400 in²/lb

[ddeclue]

78. Stop wasting our Thyme with your passive aggressive nonsense.

You've failed with your imaginary science "lectures" so now you're coming back an hour later to try and get in the last insane word.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

85. Boy, I'll say.

[Zix]

114. Thank you for your understanding. Understanding is nice.

But isn't it time you made some toast?

[ddeclue]

25. No they are NOT.

The pressure on the balloon is an INTERNAL property of the gas in the balloon and will be uniform throughout the balloon.

Balloons work on BOUYANCY - not gas pressure.

[BuyingThyme]

27. Just because it's not uniform does not mean it's not pressure.

It may helpful for you to imagine the same balloon being under water.

Give the thinker a go, and if you're still having trouble after a few minutes, get back to me and I'll see what else I can come up with to get you through this thing.

[ddeclue]

33. The pressure is uniformly distributed throughout the balloon.

Go and get your aerospace engineering degree and pilot's license then get back to me.

I already have mine.

[BuyingThyme]

94. Yet again, we're not talking about gas pressure.

Stop doing that.

[ddeclue]

102. You are an idiot. We can't help that fact. Gas pressure IS what matters here.

Sorry you have no concept of how science ACTUALLY works.

[Zix]

116. I tell you child, it is your BEDTIME.

Go to bed at once without your supper!

[billh58]

65. And this is

why such "airships" are often referred to by their class designation: lighter than air.

Bill H.
Complete Dunderhead
Commercial Pilot MEL
A&P Mechanic
Air Traffic Controller
Retired Lover

[ddeclue]

67. Exactly... cause those heavier than air balloons keep falling off the cliff instead of rising.

:rofl:

[billh58]

68. So that's where

my original design for a hot-water balloon went wrong! I knew that I should have just stayed with the solar-powered flashlight project.

:toast:

[ezgoingrl]

2. Um

cause it'll tear, causing the 6 year old inside to plummet to the ground.

[ddeclue]

9. Actually no it won't.

[azmouse]

3. It's moving at 15 - 20 mph and is a few thousand feet up.

[Blue-Jay]

4. That's a very bad idea.

One tiny hole could be the beginning of a shredding process that would make the thing drop like a stone.

[ddeclue]

12. no it won't

[NYC_SKP]

5. Bad Idea. A BB Gun Could Put Someone's Eye Out. nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

11. ROFL!

:spray:

That post wins this thread as well as all the others!

Too funny.

[damntexdem]

14. What? Even the Daisy Junior?

Or whatever.

[NYC_SKP]

20. Yeah, Mom said, "NO!"...

Let's ask Dad! :P

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. Interesting little tidbit here about the BB gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_christmas_story#Ralphie.27s_Red_Ryder_BB_Gun

[name not needed]

30. you'll shoot your eye out kid!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. They need one of them long range sniper BB rifles.

No, not really. Turns out it's all a hoax.

[ecstatic]

10. A Palinesque solution nt

[damntexdem]

15. Wait, maybe Palin has the solution. Putin could rear his head and bite the balloon.

And slowly bring it to earth.

;-) (Just in case someone couldn't tell.)

[ddeclue]

17. Can you see Russia from the balloon?

[Swamp Rat]

19. LOL!

:rofl:

[snooper2]

34. Have you ever shot anything with a BB gun from a distance of more than say

40 feet? :)

[MercutioATC]

39. That was my first thought. You'd have to pump that bastard like a zillion times

to get it to shoot almost two miles.

However, any rifle (preferably shot from a helicopter at closer range) would work.

[ret5hd]

69. Man-O-Man. I start the silliest thread and get more replies than ANYTHING i've ever posted!!!

[anigbrowl]

70. Too bad NASA couldn't help

I mean if they could have crashed a rocket into the moon, how much simler to hit a target near earth :shrug:

[truedelphi]

79. I hate to think of what that explains.

And the search for intelligent life continues on...

[Cali_Democrat]

115. That's the best way to get loads of replies

People on DU flock to inane threads.

Well done!!

:toast:

[slackmaster]

71. "Explosive Decompression"

JUST KIDDING!!!

[Kievan Rus]

72. You'll shoot your eye out!