Atheist ads to adorn New York subway stations

[Soylent Brice]

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Some New Yorkers may want to reconsider exclaiming "Thank God" when arriving at their destination subway station beginning Monday.

Or at least that's what a coalition of eight atheist organizations are hoping, having purchased a month-long campaign that will place their posters in a dozen busy subway stations throughout Manhattan.

The advertisements ask the question, written simply over an image of a blue sky with wispy white clouds: "A million New Yorkers are good without God. Are you?"

On October 26, a dozen bustling New York City subway stations will be adorned with the ads as "part of a coordinated multi-organizational advertising campaign designed to raise awareness about people who don't believe in a god", according to a statement from the group, the Big Apple Coalition of Reason.

read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21/new.york.subway.ads/index.html

[trotsky]

1. Countdown to comments about "uppity fundie atheists" in 3.... 2....

[MineralMan]

2. Well, anyone with the bucks can run an ad.

This one doesn't demean anyone or call anyone names. Can't see any reason for anyone to object to it. I'm sure some will, though, even though it just says that there are some good folks out there.

[Tikki]

3. Excellent idea.....n/t

[GoneOffShore]

4. Kind of like Twitter yesterday

No God, know peace.

[Ian David]

5. I wish Atheists wouldn't keep capitalizing the "G" in god. n/t

[JBoris]

32. Why? I capitalize the names of other fictional characters. nt

[Ian David]

38. Good point. n/t

[DireStrike]

67. Your comment has been archived for future reference

In my mind, that is.

[LynzM]

74. Likewise.

:thumbsup:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

283. I hope you remember me as well

God=Easter Bunny=Santa Claus=Zeus, all capitalized.

[Lilith Velkor]

209. G is for Gandalf, that's good enough for me...

Gandalf Gandalf Gandalf starts with G!

[madmom]

79. I don't.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

312. English-speaking Christians worship a god called God.

God as a proper noun should be capitalised; god as a common noun should not be, I would say, same as any other proper or common nouns.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. I'll Be Certain To Rip Them Down Or Deface Them Any Chance I Get.

[snooper2]

10. of course you would

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. Of Course You Would Reply With That.

[snooper2]

30. you are going to make baby jesus cry....

:rofl:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

286. Is your god afraid of a sign?

or are you?

[Soylent Brice]

26. man, i must be missing the fun. Ignored is here.

:rofl:

[Ian David]

39. Is your ignored the same as my ignored? n/t

[Soylent Brice]

46. probably.

[ieoeja]

91. OMC promises to rip-down or deface any of these signs it sees.

Because prostelyzing FOR religion is done because you care about people and want them to be happy.

While prostelyzing FOR rational thought is done because you hate people and want to anger them.


That is pretty much the sum of its posts. You should probably take it off ignored. Self-destruction seems imminent lately.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

95. You Prove The Point Well.

"While prostelyzing FOR rational thought"...

Intolerant bullshit.

Your asinine claim that atheism is rational and theism is not, as a broad line of thinking, is exactly why the groups behind these ads are a bunch of dumbasses.

Atheism is no more rational than theism, and vice versa.

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

116. Atheism Is Faith Based As Well, In Its Own Way.

Atheists have faith that life sprouted from that which is not alive, as opposed to having been created by a higher power. Atheists have faith that matter itself sprouted from nothingness, as opposed to having been created by a higher power; which was to have sprouted by nothingness.

Both are immensely unbelievable, yet in the end something has to be right. Fact is, both sides can carry the same weight of irrationality; and the only real rational position is one with an open mind to all possibilities.

[GoneOffShore]

138. And you're so open minded that your brain has seemingly fallen out.

Come back when you can stop spouting bullshit.

You and the whining indigo tail chasing snake would make a good pair.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

142. Care To Back Up Your Comments With Like, Ya Know, Any Sort Of Substance And Stuff?

Great!!! You spouted a bunch of putdowns! Yay for you!!!

Course, do you have the intellect to actually put some reasoning and logic behind your words, or will you settle for the mindless putdowns?

[GoneOffShore]

217. Don't need to - you've done it all for me, thank you very much.

You've managed to move from semi lovable curmudgeon to complete dickhead in the space of a very short time.

Good luck with that.

[NoSheep]

249. !

:rofl:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

289. Yeah you pretty much put yourself down

and made yourself look like an intolerant asshole.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

139. But I thought you were just saying it wasn't anything like religion at all.

Make up your mind.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

145. Care To Point Out Where I Said Such?

Not too quick on context are ya...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

146. The one that you just edited to remove such comments.

You've argued many times that bigotry against atheists is OK, because they're not really a religion. But you claim that they're people of faith, just like Christians. And that they proselytize, just like Christians.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

152. I Edited Nothing. Too Cowardly To Admit There Was No Such Comment?

And it's all about context. Different contexts can cause taken in a bubble similar concepts to in the end, actually not be similar at all.

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

167. No There Wasn't. That's All There Ever Was. Care To Ask The Mods?

I first put "lack of religion <> religion",
but the <> disappeared and instead it displayed
"Lack or religion religion".  I immediately edited
and spelled it out instead.

You're embarrassing yourself.

[Warren DeMontague]

191. What is it with this "you're embarassing yourself" shit?

Do you have a twin brother floating around here?

[Soylent Brice]

158. LOL. that's awesome.

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

148. That Can Be Correlated To My Post How Exactly? Tell Me, What Parts Of The Post Did You Disagree

with? And what about those parts did you disagree with? Try not to hurt yourself actually having to think in order to answer accordingly.

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

159. Knew You Didn't Have It In Ya.

I winner. You fail.

[Name removed]

168. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchum]

181. Why are you whining to mods about my posts? Why don't you just rip them down?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

183. Please See The Last Sentence Of Post 19.

:rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

227. Who says it's OMC? It might have been me. n/t

[ieoeja]

293. So why the fuck are you having our insults deleted when we are only responding in kind?

Sure, I called him an asshole. But in case you haven't noticed, he is calling everyone else names. How the hell is a response in kind deletable?

[mitchum]

296. That is likely to be the same, isn't it?

[Lars39]

270. ~

He'll wind up with all of his comments in a deleted sub-thread. Seems to be a pattern.

[Marr]

240. *mispost*

[astral]

245. I like that.

Being open to all possibilities.

I do believe there is a God who created everything. Isn't maybe a "who", but yet maybe IS a "Who."

I do not have enough faith to believe there is no Creative Intelligence behind it all....

I do not, however, believe for certain that man is the center of God's universe, nor that I will end up in heaven or anything.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

288. Look up the defination of Atheism and get back to us. nt

[ieoeja]

295. But "rational thought" is how Atheists become Atheists.

Nobody ever became a Theist through rational thought. Sure, they may use rational thought to justify their position, but they did not reach those positions through rational thought. They started with the belief then worked backwards from there.

Conversely, most Atheists started life as Theists and ended up rejecting Theism because of rational thought.

Also, you seem to be forgetting the lesson of Doubting Thomas. Those who needed proof to believe Jesus rose from the dead are less blessed than those who accepted the belief without questioning.


- Belief is the bedrock of Theism.
- Rational thought is the bedrock of Atheism.
- According to the story of Doubting Thomas, rational thought applied to religious belief is a bad thing.

[Zix]

153. You're actually getting WORSE at this.

I wouldn't have thought it possible.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

165. Actually Lad, I've Been Owning!

I love laughin my ass off at the dime a dozen brainless grade school retorts with such little if any rational or logical argument found in response to me. Nothin but empty taunts and putdowns with actual sign of intellect or rebuttal. I've fuckin owned this subthread.

[Zix]

169. So what?

[mitchum]

172. Yeah, that's why your ass has been handed back to you so many times

You keep laughing it off

[AuntPatsy]

237. I don't understand why the anger...I mean I know what you say you have been through...

but if we were to be honest here...religion has become so tainted with the blood of innocents that it is no wonder that some are pushing for that belief to end...I realize you have no desire to end yours..nor do I..but I honestly do not find it offensive when others choose not to believe..sometimes I don't...I am sure you have had those days as well..

but in the end...it is simply a personal and should remain personal belief and not forced on others...and I do find that our own government nine times out of ten allow the forcing of religious doctrine to decide our nations laws and it's wrong...

The bottom line is that the bible is filled with inconsistancies..and at times makes no sense..it is a fascinating piece of age old literature filled with myths and legends of old that have been told and retold countless times so that in many cases that have lost the original meaning..

I honestly don't understand why people that do have faith get so angry with those who denounce it as a joke..nothing but fictional characters with mental instabilities and at times lacking in common sense or true morals in the sense of knowing what is right and what is truly wrong..

I have my own faith...and I guess having a catholic upbringing abet with the school and the whole nine yards I have been indoctrinated well enough I suppose that faith will be with me until the day that I die...but that does not mean that I do not every day have questions...realize the hypocrisy and understand that even as religion can helpful it can at the same time do alot of harm...

I don't see that fighting with faceless posters on this board can be all that fun when I do think that at one time you did offer more than vain attempts to simply annoy others to which you obviously find some kind of strange enjoyment from it..

I guess I just think your silly sometimes in how you interact here at du and though you might find this site ignorant at times..you must remember how quickly many came to stand behind you when you needed it most..and lets be honest..religion had nothing to do with why they did it since many Dur's do not have that faith..they did it because inside they are good people...not all, but many of them...sadly many have left and rush's army of mutants have invaded but still the heart of du was and always will be what keeps this site still beating even in the face of so many loving to disrupt and take time from those who might finds ways to help get the change so many are hungry and in need for..hopefully before someone else loses a loved one...

hopefully...

anyway..hope you are hanging in there...strange as that sounds...I have never forgotten that time either when you needed simply to be heard..strange because we are strangers...

anyway...didn't mean to intrude on your little fun time...just thought I would ramble for a bit and you caught my eye and made me ramble on..your fault..not mine..just do not understand why you like to make people upset..regardless that many of us are faceless...many are and will be going through hard times if not now than later..its inevitable and sometimes...just sometimes...someone simply needs someone to be nice to them..even if that someone is a invisible face in a crowd of thousands...

[sudopod]

230. As an interested bystander

What do you believe, if you don't mind telling some weirdo on the internet your closest held beliefs. :)

[ZombieHorde]

247. "Atheism is no more rational than theism, and vice versa."

Which is more rational; belief in werewolves, or disbelief in werewolves; belief in telepathic toasters, or disbelief in telepathic toasters?

[snort]

280. My toaster tried to warn me about

werewolves but I just would not listen.

[Vidar]

252. Mine too, apparently.

[snooper2]

47. yes, you are :)

:rofl:

[wuushew]

13. why?

did you pay for them?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. Nope. That's The Best Part!

:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

14. Wow, how patriotic.

Guess you didn't read the 1st Amendment? :shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. You Must Think I'm The Government.

:dunce:

[Warren DeMontague]

25. No, I just think you're a frightened, small-minded little man.

If you can't handle a billboard saying "We don't believe in God", your faith must not be all that strong, either.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. You Presume Far Too Much Grasshopper.

You know nothing of my faith nor my reasons of dislike for the ad campaign.

But feel free to keep stereotyping and displaying your ignorance! :hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. Yeah, he's giving you way too much credit.

[Warren DeMontague]

187. I don't give a shit whether you "like" the ad campaign, or not.

But if you start ripping it down or defacing it, you're breaking the law.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

188. Oh Noes!!!!!! I'd Be Breaking The Law!!!!!! Bbbbbbut That Would Ruin My 100% Perfect Law Abiding

citizen record! Oh noes!!!!!!!!!1111

:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

190. Do me a favor, be sure to do it in front of a cop.

I hear you get bonus points with Jesus, that way.

[Ian David]

271. You'd think Ignored would be tombstoned by now.

Maybe so many people have him on ignore, that nobody's left to alert on him?

[sudopod]

231. So why do you dislike it?

Being a heathern can be pretty lonely sometimes. It's nice to know there's others out there.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Operationhatecrime?

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Because not only does the all-powerful "god" need lots of money, any questioning of his existence

makes him melt like the Wicked Witch of the West under a bucket of water.

[Marr]

241. He's all powerful, but he has a very thin skin.

And he needs cash.

[Soylent Brice]

27. aha, now i think i know who Ignore is...

[DireStrike]

41. lol

I never ever anticipated using the ignore feature. I still won't ignore said poster, mostly out of laziness. Though I often see contentious things from that quarter, I've never had the privilege of witnessing something so apocalyptically stupid. Best ignore candidate evar.

[Soylent Brice]

44. let's just say

i am happy with my decision.

[d_b]

69. operationshittroll

[DireStrike]

19. Is this a troll post? Why on earth would you say that?

Can I go burn down a church? Not that I'd want to.

I'm open to the possibility that this might be an interesting attempt at humor, but that isn't readily apparent.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Just Being Honest.

If I come across them, that's what I'll do.

Why? Cause I can. Why else? Because I like foiling the plans of really stupid people.

[DireStrike]

24. Your comment also justifies church burning.

Provided the perpetrator can get away with it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Absolutely! SPOT ON ANALOGY!!! GENIUS COMPARISON!!!!! YOU'VE NAILED IT!!!!!! HURRAHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Absolutely equal actions and a spot on analogy. Kudos for the brilliant insight!!!

:dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. What you're describing is a hate crime.

What's that? They're building a new synagogue in town? Well I'll be the first to rush down and vandalize it with swastikas.

[cherokeeprogressive]

228. Leaps like that require a net, unless you're a Flying Wallenda.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

287. Explain how it's a leap.

I'd like to know why you're suddenly defending hate crimes.

[DireStrike]

36. Thanks! We're in agreement then.

I will gratuitously overlook your original post, obviously made in error.

[Fumesucker]

75. Congratulations.. That's the first true comment I can recall reading from you.

You recognize that vandalism is vandalism, no matter how large or small.

[Forkboy]

97. It has to be pretty spot on as you included a bunch of smilies.

It's your tell.

[LanternWaste]

33. I imagine that very justification

"Why? Cause I can."
I imagine that very justification has covered all manner of misdeeds throughout human history.

"Why else? Because I like foiling the plans of really stupid people."
And I imagine that far more often than not, people think everyone else is stupid, while they themselves are not. Seems to me that the brightest ones among us speak neither of their intelligence, nor the ignorance of others, and I'd bet money the corollary is also true...

[Brickbat]

37. Because you can? How boring.

Wreckers are a lot more interesting when they stand for something.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

64. Then you must be shooting yourself in the foot all the time.

[surrealAmerican]

131. What other subway station ads do you routinely destroy?

Surely this is much less offensive than many commercial ads you've seen.

[Forkboy]

94. All of his are.

[Marr]

242. I don't know why people get so caught up with this person. He/she

obviously has some kind of problem.

[Occam Bandage]

43. Let me get this straight.

You're stating that you plan to destroy and/or deface private property because you disagree with the religious views of the owners of that property.

Given that a legal dictionary defines "hate crime" as "a criminal offense committed against a person, persons, or property that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, national origin, or sexual orientation," given that you are proposing a criminal offense against property, and given that your motivation is the religion of the property's owners, how is it that you're not declaring intent to commit a hate crime?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

82. Hate Crime...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Occam Bandage]

86. Which part don't you agree with?

The part where you'd be committing a crime against property, or the part where your motivation was the protected religious speech of the victim?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

92. Lack Of Religion Does Not Equal Religion

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occam Bandage]

50. Battle of the ITGs!

[leftynyc]

55. Why?

Is the ad hurting you in some way. And by the way, if I see you doing it, I will be telling it to the police. And this is coming from a believer.

[fujiyama]

66. Because he or she is icredibly small minded

and immature.

They can't have their world view threatened. It's the same kind of idiots that tear down yard signs for Democratic candidates during an election season.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

77. Nah. I Just Hate Intolerant People And Trouble Makers.

And no matter what their supposed mission is, their purpose is nothing more than showing their bitterness towards those who choose to have faith and to stir shit up. They are hateful of religion and enjoy poking at those who choose to believe. They are the ones who are ignorant, small minded and immature.

[BurtWorm]

78. You're putting us on.

Come on! That last post proves it!

:spray:

[DireStrike]

88. Wow, yeah that was a good one.

I'm convinced now. And amused.

[Occam Bandage]

81. Where's the hate or intolerance?

It's simply stating that a significant number of good atheists (or, more precisely, non-Christians) exist. That's it. There's no attack on religion stated or implied. How is the public existence of atheists offensive to those who choose to believe?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

83. ...

[Occam Bandage]

That's a pretty hat. nt

[KakistocracyHater]

304. exactly, & just what is needed for the fundimentalist Muslims

as well as fundimentalist Christians, to realize that no belief does not = bad/evil. There is no intolerance in those signs, it's all projected. Quit going all Mary Tudor, wordwise......

[NeedleCast]

93. How, in any way, is that particular sign

bitter towards religion? Its simply a sign saying that there are plenty of good people in the world who didn't get their morality card at church.

I'm one of them.

I don't need a god to be a good person. In fact, there's plenty of evidence out there to show us that most of the basis for the 10 Commandments and other religious dogma are just pretty much just a regurgitation of criminal law in Roman society at the time. Not stealing, not lying, not killing...these were all things that were illegal at the time. It's not like Moses' stone tablets came with anything new or noteworthy.

That sign is not hateful towards religion. I, as an atheist am not hateful towards religion. I think it's all a bit silly because yeah, I think it's Santa Claus for grown ups, but you're welcome to your belief system right up until the point that it begins to infringe on my rights. Why is is okay for a church or religious organization to take out flyers or do advertising, but not okay for athiests?

[PassingFair]

96. Puhlease...if the sign read...A million New Yorkers believe in God, do you?

You would rip the sign from it's bracket?

Really?

I wouldn't even bat an eye at that sign.

:crazy:

[PassingFair]

100. Puhlease...if the sign read...A million New Yorkers believe in God, do you?

You would rip the sign from it's bracket?

Really?

I wouldn't even bat an eye at that sign.

:crazy:

[Forkboy]

101. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. OT, But When Are You Going To Come Up With Some New Material?

Your one liner retorts have gotten really stale and elementary school level. You've become beyond predictable and your one trick pony schtik is unlikely to amuse anyone beyond the simplest simpletons.

For real... If you're gonna lie in wait to pounce on any visible post I make, can you at least work on your stuff ahead of time so that it can even begin to be considered clever? You used to amuse me. Now, the grade school retorts do nothing more than bore me.

[Forkboy]

112. You're lecturing ME on schtick?

DUzy!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

117. Duh.

Figured I made it clear enough.

Work on it. It's become more stale than a 10 yr old opened box of crackers...

[Forkboy]

120. "It's become more stale than a 10 yr old opened box of crackers..."

Might want to work on your own material there, Carrot Top. You giving comedy lessons is like Cheney giving peace lessons.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

125. Well For One Thing,

the analogy was definitely better than your weak ass cheney giving peace lessons one (though my goal was not to be humorous, as is yours, but rather to be direct and honest in giving you advice).

Work on it FB. Lord knows you don't have much else you spend your time on. Might as well use it to come up with something new or even mildly witty/humorous. :hi:

[Forkboy]

128. "my goal was not to be humorous"

It showed. :hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

133. So Cliche.

Your retorts wreak of obviousness. No creativity nor wit. Like I said... One trick pony.

Work on it FB. For real.

[Forkboy]

154. Arrrghhh...I'm mortally wounded by your devastating ripostes.

So Cliche.

Like every lame brained, contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, puffed out chest, posing, I'm hard post you've made since arriving on DU?

Your retorts wreak of obviousness.

Well yours haven't exactly been Surprise City there, bud.

No creativity nor wit.

Like Oscar Wydle is shaking in his boots at the thought of your idea of creativity, which consists of "I'm right, you're all wrong" and a bunch of smilies.

Like I said... One trick pony.

Better than a one trick troll.

Work on it FB. For real.

Oh thank you, my comedic Sensei! Where would the world of comedy be without OMC to guide us?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

174. Settle Down Francis ROFLMAO.

Gettin all huffy puffy are we?

Work on your stuff FB. You've got a longgggggg way to go.

(again, your reply full of obviousness and entry level amateur sarcasm. Take your time laddy... Come up with some new stuff. Maybe, like, not be so obvious and stuff. You'll get there someday!)

[Forkboy]

213. I like how you've cut down on the smilies.

Though switching to the all caps ROFLMAO is really the same thing. Another tell. We have got to sit down for some poker one night.

And I must say, it's pretty funny to see you say "come up with some new stuff" after telling me to "work on your stuff" in how many posts in a row now? You wacky kids...so cute when you're young!

Don't worry, you'll get there some day.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

136. He owns shares in ROFL smilies and stock pictures.

:hi:

[Warpy]

110. Intolerant people are the ones pulling down signs

simply because they disagree with the message.

By the way, we are good without any gods. In fact, we've got a better track record than most believers.

Especially the narrow minded ones who freak out and rip down signs that tell them they don't own goodness.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

118. Bzzzzzt.

It isn't because I disagree with the message. It's merely because the group behind it is full of ignorant jackasses; and I like pissing them off in my own small way.

And you've got a better track record than most believers? Oh realllllllly... Would love to see ya back that wild ass claim up.

[Warpy]

123. A quarter of the way down the page, the first two groups

http://www.kiva.org/community

This is one example.

Shame on you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

129. Ummmm, The Believers Are Donating 40% More Than The Nonbelievers. Not Big On Data Are You LOL

And really, you use that as if relevant in any way? In response to my post, that was your rebuttal? Are you for real? TOO FRIGGIN FUNNY!!!!

:rofl:

[Warpy]

144. When has over a million been less than six hundred thousand?

I'll give you a hint: the million is bigger.

Shame on you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

156. Reallllllllly Not Good With Data Are You ROFLMAO.

In your example, the believers donate at a rate that is 140% of the rate of non believers. From your example, the non believers seem to be real cheapos lol.

Course, that's all irrelevant anyway, since your intent of the example is beyond ludicrous, as was your lack of real rebuttal initially.

[RetroLounge]

160. " I Just Hate Intolerant People And Trouble Makers."

OMG! :rofl:

Do you hate the irony impaired too?

RL

[TommyO]

256. And their numbers are growing as people move from superstition to reason.

[Ghost in the Machine]

308. "Nah. I Just Hate Intolerant People And Trouble Makers"...

So we can gather, then, that you routinely jump out of your vehicle and beat up "street preachers" who stand on the street corners and yell at people that they are gonna burn in hell if they don't accept the jesus fairy as their lord and savior?

I mean, hey.. they sound pretty intolerant to me...




And no matter what their supposed mission is, their purpose is nothing more than showing their bitterness towards those who choose not to have faith and to stir shit up. They are hateful of the non religios and enjoy poking at those who choose not to believe. They are the ones who are ignorant, small minded and immature.

There, I fixed it for you

[ImOnlySleeping]

313. Then I suppose

You destroy the signs indicating jesus is coming and that repentance is some sort of necessity. And no matter what their supposed mission is, their purpose is nothing more than showing their bitterness towards those who choose to not have faith and to stir shit up. They are hateful of those that don't follow their religion and enjoy poking at those who choose not to believe. They are the ones who are ignorant, small minded and immature.

ta da

[Dorian Gray]

68. Why?

They are ads, just like any other ads. If there were ads for churches or synagogues, would you rip them down?

They are not offensive or insulting. No reason to be offended by them. Just keep walking by and living life.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

80. Because The Group Is Beyond Ignorant.

And no, they're not the same as churches and synagogues. Church and synagogue ads don't aim to piss people off merely out of bitterness.

[Occam Bandage]

84. I can't really see anyone getting "pissed off" at that ad.

Now, if we were talking about Dawkins' ad in the UK--that "there's probably no God" one--then sure, I could see an argument being made that the ad was inflammatory, because it directly challenges belief. That would by no means justify vandalism, but I could at least see a coherent argument made that the ad was aimed at "pissing people off."

But how on Earth does the simple statement, "there are some atheists," anger a reasonable person?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

90. The Intent Is The Same.

And tell me Mr. Convinced He Sees Things Clearly: If the group promoting the ad calls themselves the "coalition of reason", does that not then imply that if those not believing in god band together to form a coalition of reason, that those then that band together in faith are forming a coalition of irrationality? And tell me then also Mr. Convinced He Sees Things Clearly: If that's the case, is that not then inflammatory a wee little? Do you think their choice of name is mere innocent coincidence with no possible hidden agenda or negative connotation? Don't make me post the hat picture again...

[NeedleCast]

99. Technically that's totally correct

Faith is a belief in something that can't be proven. It is, therefore, irrational.

That's why I think fundamentalists of all stripes are so funny. Each one is absolutely sure that his/her choice in dieties is correct - with absolutely no proof, mind - and they are also unwilling to question why people who are absolutely sure in another diety believe as they do.

It is completely irrational to be monothieastic. You either believe in no gods, or you believe in the possibility of all of them. Any other option is completely irrational.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

106. Technically, Your Explanation Is Total Rubbish.

God so far has not been proven. Creation through other than God has also not been proven. Hence, the need for an open mind all around.

Personally, I've always considered agnostics to be the fairest. To firmly believe there's a god, but also firmly believe there is no god, are both equally closed minded.

And irrational to believe in only one god? Not at all. Your logic in that statement, or lack thereof, is a bit silly. Also, are you not educated enough to be aware that the majority of individual gods despite the actual religion are all referencing the same overall god, albeit with different interpretations?

[muriel_volestrangler]

192. Aren't you aware that agnostics live their lives 'without God' too?

Adn that therefore they are in the group that are 'good without God'? So why do you object to a poster that supports an agnostic point of view?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

196. It's Not The Message, It's The Messenger.

First of all, they're an atheist group not an agnostic one (as far as I know). Second of all, it isn't that they're atheists at all (since I once was an atheist and at times still am) but the fact that they just want to poke for sake of poking.

[muriel_volestrangler]

201. So what you're saying is that on DU you obey the rules

but in real life, you form irrational hatreds for certain groups of people, and will break the law just to piss them off?

On DU, you're a good member, but in the real world, you're a troll?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

202. I Hate Intolerance And Bigotry.

And nah, I don't hate the group thatttttt much. But I do heavily dislike their intent and the intent of groups similar to them. They hide behind the cover of 'honorable intentions' by acting like they're promoting awareness blah blah blah, but that's a crock of shit. They simply hate religion and hold contempt for those who choose to have faith, and use these sort of campaigns as a way to poke them just for sake of poking them. They're calling people of faith irrational and are the same types as some members here who act all smug and superior as if they're smart for being atheist and that anyone who is a believer is ignorant or guilty of irrational stupidity etc.

Well to me that makes them a group of dumbasses. In real life, do I enjoy pissing off dumbasses? Hell yeah. Do it all the time. Stupid people have always pissed me off.

And for the record, if there were ads stating that atheists were irrational would I feel compelled to take them down as well? You bet I would.

[muriel_volestrangler]

203. You seem to know a remarkable amount about their feelings

for a group which doesn't say anything like "we hate religion". In fact, you are judging them without any evidence, and just guessing at what they feel, based on your own feelings. They aren't calling anyone 'irrational'; but they are calling how they think 'rational'. And I have to say the process by which you have arrive at your hatred of them, however mild it is, is 'irrational'.

They are not just 'atheist', in fact; their website talks about 'nontheists'.

I find your blind assumptions about them incorrect; and your intolerance for this group highly ironic.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

205. I've Seen You Debate These Issues Before And Am Aware Of Your Narrow Views Of This Topic.

Therefore, I can more than safely say that we're not gonna get anywhere.

But to imply for a second that they are innocently regarding themselves as rational without any intent whatsoever to infer that theists are irrational; and to also try and make a point to me that being a group of nontheists that form a coalition of reason in no way implies that the coalition exists to offset the majority coalition of those who don't reason that is made up of believers, is beyond ludicrous.

Assumptions? Hardly. An open mind capable of sound logic is all it takes to reach the conclusions I have. It is not me that is 'blind'.

Next are you gonna tell me that their real purpose was legitimately to inform people in NYC that there are atheists amongst them; since we all know that NYC rivals Alabama as the center of the bible belt and stuff.

:rofl:

[muriel_volestrangler]

212. You have an irrational hatred for a group, and you think my views are 'narrow'?

I suspect you know nothing about the coalition, since you are ascribing views to them that are simply wrong.

From their site:

The Big Apple Coalition of Reason (Big Apple COR) is a collection of local organizations working together to increase awareness of secular-minded groups throughout New York City.

All Big Apple COR organizations share common ground -- promoting wider acceptance of a more rational and realistic view of the universe -- but each has its own particular emphasis. Some advocate for scientific knowledge, reason, and skeptical inquiry. Some focus on the promotion of dogma-free humanist ethics, and an appreciation for life and the lives of other persons. Others focus more on providing a social aspect to the secular community.

However, the completion of both shared goals, and each group's specific objectives, cannot be done without awareness to the cause and its supporters. Yet while our collective viewpoint is secular, we share commonalities with many belief systems -- including religious. We are committed to a more compassionate world; we are working for a more reasonable citizenry and a higher level of discourse; we are striving to increase the quality of life for all; and we find fellowship an integral part of the human condition. Theists and nontheists alike are the same people: we go to work everyday; we have families and friends; we are involved in our communities, state, and country; and we care deeply about life.

http://newyorkcity.unitedcor.org/

You haven't shown one bit of logic in your views in this thread. You judged the coalition on your preconceived ideas of what people who'd put up a nontheist subway ad would be like, and stuck stubbornly to them, ignoring what others say, while thinking that you're winning the argument, somehow. All you have done is show yourself to be full of hatred. It's a shame you can't be as tolerant as the Catholic archdiocese of New York:

Asked to comment on the advertisement, Joseph Zwilling, a spokesman for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York, said: “The First Amendment allows these groups to preach their religious beliefs. I hope that the rights of other religious groups will also be respected when they also seek to advertise their beliefs.”

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/19/good-without-god-atheist-subway-ads-proclaim/

The purpose of the ad is to tell New Yorkers there are lots of nontheists; and that there's a group where they can discuss such views more.

Big Apple COR aims to inform New Yorkers that there is a community of people who share a rational basis for their worldviews, who attend intellectual public lectures, enjoy philosophy discussions, and socialize. We invite you to visit our various websites, to contact any of those in which you are interested, and to feel free to attend the public gatherings of any of our organizations.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

215. LOL. And Yes, I Do Think Your Views Are Narrow.

I find it hilarious that you actually believe them to be honorable and innocent in their intentions. I also like how you continue to call it irrational hatred even though I already said otherwise.

And you really believe their statement that they want to make New Yorkers aware that there are many nontheists there? I mean gosh! We all know that NYC is the center of the bible belt right? I mean, who would EVER think that there were a lot of new yorkers who weren't religious! Thank god for this group making other people aware, or we just would've never known!!!

:rofl:

Like I said: I'm aware that there's no getting anywhere with you on this topic. I mean hell, how much progress could there be with someone who thinks a group calling themselves the coalition of reason doesn't at all mean to imply that those who are believers are not using reasoning, and that they want to just simply and oh so innocently just inform members of the world renowned bible thumping nyc folk that there are nonbelievers amongst them? Too friggin funny.

[Gwendolyn]

220. Everyone needs to use toilet paper and yet they keep hammering us with commercials.

You'd think we'd know by now to just go to the store and get it without prompting.

NYC has a huge religious Hispanic community, along with an equally, if not more religious, Jewish community. It doesn't hurt to tell those who want out of their tight knit communities that there is a welcoming atheist group to hang with. Many of these atheist groups, while providing stimulating conversation and fun activities, are basically a good place to hook up romantically. Or find other couples who might have similar interests. What is so wrong with advertising that?

[muriel_volestrangler]

251. 72% of Americans think it's important that a president has strong religious beliefs

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=337

It's a real problem that a large number of Americans, and that will still include a lot of New York City, think that you can't really be moral enough to be the guy in charge unless you believe in some higher power (and notice that the same poll says a majority think churches should keep out of politics; for many, it's not that they want they own particular sect's positions in the White House, just that the president should feel there's something to keep him in check).

So, there is a simple need for a message that points out a lot of New Yorkers lead morally good lives without a 'God' to tell them what to do, and that those who don't have religious beliefs have groups they can talk and work with without someone thinking them 'weird' for not believing in God.

You have still not shown a single bit of reason or logic for how you arrived at your hatred of the group, so I feel justified in calling it 'irrational'. You may deny that it's irrational, but if you want to be regarded as rational, then you have to show your reasoning.

I'm sorry that you have formed a conspiracy theory that the nasty atheists are out to spread hatred by sneakily saying they want groups to understand and get along together, and I hope that you don't feel too lonely when you realise that your claim of how evil they really are isn't accepted by anyone else on DU, or in the wider world (apart from the odd jutjob who may get convinced by 10 conspiracy theories a week). But that's the lot of the theory originator - be prepared to be laughed at, a great deal.

[BurtWorm]

274. You're the poster boy of unreason in this thread,

How can you be offended if anyone points out the unreason of a position like yours?

[piratefish08]

257. I Hate Intolerance And Bigotry. baaawaaaahahahaaaahhaaaaaa!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Beetwasher]

294. "since I once was an atheist and at times still am"

So you're a schizophrenic? Well, that explains a lot.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

311. Duh!

HUGE multiple personality disorder.

[madmom]

107. I just had to read your profile after your tirade here. The comments you

left are truly laughable. Respect? Open mindedness? Really?

[RetroLounge]

164. He's Irony impaired

among other impairments

"It's all about integrity, respect, honesty, decency, open mindedness, fairness, and genuine desire to wish good upon all. "

except when OMC doesn't feel like it.

RL

[Dorian Gray]

194. I don't get why this

would piss you (or anyone else) off. Trust me, I've been on the opposite end of some Religion and Theology debates with some of the atheists at this board, but in this case, I really don't understand at all why the ads would induce ire in anyone. I'm not trying to argue for argument's sake, but I really don't understand why you think the group is ignorant here. They claim that they are trying to increase awareness about atheism and its existence. Okay. It exists. Big deal. It can only piss you off if you find something offensive about that existence or if its existence threatens you somehow. It doesn't bother me, nor does it threaten me, so if I see some ads on the train.... :shrug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. Do you do the same for church groups that post in NYC?

how odd.

[Arugula Latte]

72. And I hope you get thrown in jail when you do!

Too bad you're so insecure you can't even stand to read about an alternate view.

How very, very pathetic.

[mitchum]

73. Where is your vandalism god now?

Shouldn't Magic Angry Crybaby in the Sky be ripping them down?

[AzDar]

98. Yes... for if there were no God, whom would you thank " THAT IT PASSED"?

;-)

[SammyWinstonJack]

275. +1

:evilgrin:

[JVS]

302. Rofl

[Blue-Jay]

109. .

[Tesha]

130. If you do so, with just a little luck, maybe you'll be arrested. (NT)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

134. Jeez... I'm Not Code Pink. My Point Isn't To Get Arrested.

And no, if I chose to rip any down, there wouldn't be a chance I'd get caught. Not exactly the most challenging thing to get away with lol.

[Tesha]

211. No, you're not Code Pink. They aren't cowards and they stand for something meaningful. (NT)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

216. They're Nothing More Than Morons, And They Stand For Nothing More Than Attention Whoring.

[Tesha]

218. Well, at least in those two ways you're similar, then. (NT)

[Blue-Jay]

135. He'd never have the stones to really do it.

But It Sounds Tough On The Internet.

[GirlinContempt]

246. Yep

[Toasterlad]

157. How Are You Still Here?

[Forkboy]

163. Sympathy.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

178. Wrong Laddy.

I'm here because I'm a real Democrat that isn't stuck in some closed minded over zealous highly emotional full of ignorance knee jerking illogical and irrational state of mind like others have.

And to claim it is due to sympathy shows how narrow and simple minded you are, since long before there was any family issue of mine I had already been 'OMC' (actually was much fiercer then even).

Nice try though. :hi:

[Name removed]

184. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

186. Are You Really As Much A Fool As You're Implying?

Scam... One of the most downright moronic accusations I've ever heard...

[mitchum]

297. Are You Really As Much A Fool As You're Exhibiting?

Uh...that was a rhetorical question

[Forkboy]

226. No, I think it's pretty spot on.

:hi:

[TommyO]

258. No real Democrat would try to silence a group by tearing own their ads.

[cherokeeprogressive]

239. What an absolutely fucked up and heartless thing to say.

Absolutely fucked up and heartless x 10

[Forkboy]

262. You and he will live.

[cherokeeprogressive]

285. We will.

And you are still absolutely cold and fucking heartless.

[Forkboy]

298. Your displeasure with me is a burden I guess I'll just have to bear in life.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

176. Are You Fool Enough To Believe You Have To Be An Atheist To Be A Democrat? How Silly.

There are far more theists that are Dems than atheists, so get a grip.

[Toasterlad]

210. Atheist, Smatheist

I don't recall you EVER being on the correct side of any issue. I truly believe you exist only to contrast rational thought.

[Name removed]

182. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

185. You Just Can't Take The Fact That I Have Critical Thinking Abilities And The Courage To Voice

my opinions most prominently when they are NOT the majority side.

In fact, I'm more of a real Democrat than the overwhelming majority of my detractors.

[Forkboy]

214. Hannity feels the same way about himself. Just a brave soldier fighting the majority.

We bow before you, oh mighty warrior of Democratic Ideals.

[PVnRT]

223. Certain people are allowed to say whatever they want

I have no idea why, but the mods let certain posters here get away with murder.

[cynatnite]

204. I don't see the problem with this kind of expression. n/t

[PVnRT]

219. Typical fucking scum comment from you

I suppose in-your-face JESUS ads everywhere are perfectly OK. Fucking hypocrite.

[ZombieHorde]

248. What do you think the sign means? nt

[piratefish08]

253. Excellent - christian tolerance in action!

you make the baby jesus proud..........

[TommyO]

255. If you do, I hope there is a police officer there to arrest you

[Deep13]

263. Thus demonstrating the immorality of your beliefs.

What you suggest is immoral, undemocratic and unamerican. No one has the right to crush a dissenting view and you have no right to impose your religious "values" on others. That's bigotry, something you claim to despise in your sig-line.

[ipaint]

7. I like that.

Nothing wrong about being good without god.

[LostInAnomie]

8. Good. I'm sure some devout Christians will tear them down or deface them ASAP though.

[RetroLounge]

166. See post #6

even fake Xtian internet tough guys will pretend they will.

RL

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

189. Yup. I'm Christian.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Knee jerkers. So funny to watch...

[jonnyblitz]

254. most (((assholes)))) are....nt

[JVS]

303. Nobody fucks with the Jesus

[liberal_at_heart]

9. Glad to see it

I'm glad to see their philosophy out in public. I can't go anywhere without seeing crosses everywhere. Atheists should be able to express themselves too. However, I don't appreciate when Christians try to convert me and I don't necessarily want atheists trying to convert me either. They could have left out the Are You? line.

[Ezlivin]

11. If there's another 9/11 we'll know who to blame

I'm sure that every fundamentalist preacher out there is already writing sermons decrying the (further) fall of New York City.

As a born-again atheist I am really glad to see this public effort. Now if we could something like this going in the D/FW Metroplex!

[LanternWaste]

12. Oh good-- something to ridicule!

Oh good-- something for me to ridicule and deride!

(six of one half a dozen of the other and all that...)

[Brickbat]

18. Excellent.

Believe it or not, it IS possible to be a moral person without a god. Frankly, the older I get, the more I wonder how having a carrot or stick in front of you makes someone a moral person. "Be good or else" seems to be a kind of sad faith, IMO.

[Norrin Radd]

23. They should go after the worship of Mammon.

[TheCoxwain]

29. FAIL.Why do atheists need to proselytize? I think the smart ones can come to his/her own

conclusions

And

we dont need the dumb ones .....



Our strength is not in our numbers ... but in the rationality of our thought.


I oppose this ad .... I find it very insulting.


I take my lack of religious thought very seriously - I think it is deeply personal and hate to see atheism becoming some kind of mass movement.


BIG MASSIVE FAIL.




.

[snooper2]

40. think of it this way....

It would be nice to have strength in numbers as well...maybe we will finally get some politicians who are not afraid of saying there is no god. In a way it's using the bandwagon effect; exactly like religion does though :shrug:

[AuntPatsy]

238. with all the ding ding ding posts going on....only yours should have had it...

it is because of government period..and I can completely understand the whys of putting them up until it is not a political need to have to state you have faith or to continue to enact laws based on faith and a false belief that the bible is in fact solidly accurate...

It has to stop..it just has to if we are to ever move forward..if it does not..it is inevitable that they will continue to push this country back...and they have the funds to do it..because of..because of fear ...a fear they themselves use daily and in order to control the masses..

as a believer myself..I have no problem with those signs...the only problem I have is that religious leaders have way too much power in this country and how it's laws become inhered to...enough is enough..


How hard is it to understand..and why don't the politicians state it openly...religion and politics do NOT mix nor should they ever regardless of the dollar bill that says what it says...and it should be heraled out there and NOT brought up every five seconds when politicians are talking or being interviewed..frankly I could care less if any of them believe..what I worry most about is that they are fit to do the jobs they were hired to do and experienced enough to ensure the job is done right..obviously those traits are lacking in too many..but hey for some its okay because they believe.....nooo noooo noooo, it is not okay..and so for me the signs are not a big deal and perhaps even needed for right now...

we must take into account when this country and in what time period it was begun...they obviously did what they did to appease some....we are no longer in that century or time frame where ignorance was so expansive...

there is no excuse to continue this madness..

leave my religion where it belongs...within my own heart...and I will decide how i will personally live my life by what I privately believe in..

[Soylent Brice]

42. IMHO i don't think it's a massive campaign, more than just promoting awareness.

as simple of a statement as it is, some people really do truly believe you have to be religious to be moral.

this may just be encouragement to get people to open up their eyes, and see past their noses.

:shrug:

that's the way i see it, at least.

[DireStrike]

45. How about because atheists and agnostics are looked down upon?

I would like it if one day the general public wouldn't automatically consider atheists fundamentally flawed and immoral people. If this starts even one conversation that changes one mind, cool.

[NeedleCast]

104. That's part of it

We'll have a black, female, lesbian president who's a believer before we elect an Athiest.

[RyboSlybo]

170. Thank God!

[DireStrike]

198. Well that seems insulting.

Am I missing something?

[PSzymeczek]

221. In spite of Article 6

of the Constitution. You know, the part of the Constitution that says:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

[BurtWorm]

49. I see it merely as a small step toward normalizing disbelief.

That's all these campaigns are ever about. They're not about proselytizing. They're about helping people who fear or despise atheism without knowing anything about it get used to having it expressed in public.

[TheCoxwain]

54. Then what does "Are you?" talk about in the ad? ... this Ad is not about acceptance

Just my impression...

It almost says .."Come be one of us"

[BurtWorm]

59. It suggests that that's a normal question to ask in public, That's all.

Atheism doesn't have to be a high-level intellectual pursuit. I would bet a lot of atheists--ie., people who don't believe in god/s--don't spend a lot of time thinking about their their atheism. What harm is there in an ad that prompts a little thought by asking "are you good without God?"

[DireStrike]

63. I have to agree with that

The ad strays from its purpose with the "are you"? line. It comes off as.... well, certainly not the high-minded philosophical statement that has been argued here.

And with the vast majority of people clamping on to a set of beliefs and attacking that which doesn't agree(religious, non-religious, political, sports etc etc) it sounds imperious and threatening.

[TheCoxwain]

71. 100% my thoughts ..

:hi:

[Gwendolyn]

115. How so? It's requires a simple yes or no answer.

And if you're standing in NYC subway at rush hour. squashed into the middle of some sweaty, tired herd on the way home, you may have half an hour to ruminate over the idea and come to the conclusion that your answer is "no."

I don't see the arm-twisting at all. If anything, it gives aggravated, stressed out people a chance to look at cloud visuals and perhaps remind themselves to stay close to their God. What's great about this ad is that it can be interpreted in many ways.

[DireStrike]

121. I think it is unlikely many people will interpret it as you do

Is it a sign for atheists, to show solidarity? Not really; the "Are you?" makes no sense in that context.

Is it a sign for intolerant believers who have to be reminded that atheists/agnostics are people too, and there are a lot of us, and we don't run around eating kittens? No, because in most cases their response to that sign would be to dig deep into their martyr complex and disgorge a hearty "Fuck that! Godless freaks!" (The deeper thinkers in that crowd will add: "Jesus, please help them to find you".)

[Gwendolyn]

137. Then maybe I misunderstood. I got from your post that you find the ad threatening.

[DireStrike]

150. Oh no, *I* don't find it threatening. Lol.

My point was that many people have a mindset such that they would find it threatening.

But I have realized a point in thinking about it. Out of the people that will find it an intriguing philosophical question, there might exist a handful that will emerge from thinking about it with a higher opinion of nonbelievers. Those offended by the "Are you?" are immune to the effects of the ad, and the ad is not for them.

It can also serve as a spark for conversation.

I still think it would be MORE effective without the "Are you?" - fewer people would feel threatened, and more would think about it.

[Gwendolyn]

180. There's no better place for a question like that than where you have a captive audience.

Like a subway station. I agree with most of what you've said. But I think the "Are you?" is effective because it seems to me to be reaching out to the millions of people who are fence-sitters. They aren't sure, but believe they're "somewhat" religious because they like turkey at Christmas and eat Matzoh at Passover. But then, they also think the O&N T are a crock. Or, they are closeted atheists just waiting for acceptance and a reason to come out of the closet.

Reminds me of Canadian teevee ads from years ago. It portrayed a shivering guy in his knickers, hanging desperately onto the edge of mattress, trying to sleep. The camera then panned across the bed to reveal another guy, a typical blanket and bed hog, loudly snoring away and all wrapped up snug as a bug. The tagline was "What's the difference between a straight and gay marriage? Nothing." It was just before the gay marriage act came into effect. It didn't do anything for the rabid anti gay marriage people, or obviously the choir on the other side. It helped with the middle people who needed a little shove. Same thing here I think.

[PassingFair]

103. No, it says to me: "There are others like you, LOTS of them".

I love it.

[SidDithers]

57. Normalizing disbelief...

I like that, it's an excellent turn of phrase. :applause:

Sid

[fascisthunter]

53. while I am one who supports proselytizing belief or nonbelief...

I can understand why. Atheists have been demonized way too much and now some see fit to fight back this way. It's what happens when a minority is attacked for being different from a majority. If churches can do it, atheists can too.

[NYC Liberal]

58. How is this proselytizing?

It's simply reminding people that there ARE many, many people who are not religious and do not believe in their particular deity. It doesn't say "ATHEISM IS THE ONE TRUE WAY."

And it's not just a reminder to the religious, it's also a reminder to other atheists who may feel like they are surrounded with no other atheists around.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

85. DING DING DING DING DING!!!!

We have a winner!!!

[moondust]

89. Fail indeed.

Why would someone feel a need to advertise/sell/spread their personal non-belief in something? Is atheism a religion of its own now?

[NeedleCast]

102. There is no proselytizing in this ad

Its simply a statement that one does not gain morality simply be belonging to a religion. It's quite true.

[ipaint]

119. I would have appreciated being exposed to a different point of view as young person

if only to introduce me to questioning authority earlier on. It certainly would have given me something to think about since most messages are religion related.

I like that it offers an alternative to traditional beliefs.

[muriel_volestrangler]

200. They're not proselytising

They're opposing the commonly held belief among many Christian sects that you have to believe in their Christian God to be 'good'.

And since the agnostics and atheists get insulted by some Christians, and then get insulted again by atheists like you who call other atheists 'dumb', a message that other people recognise them as ethical human beings is a nice thing to put up.

I have never heard atheism described as some kind of exclusive MENSA group before. You say "we don't need the dmub ones", so you seem to regard is as some kind of movement, in which there's a quesiton of whom 'we' need; and yet you don't want it to be a mass movement.

So, for you, atheism is a select little club in which you can feel superior to others, but that would be spoilt by the majority of people holding it as an opinion?

The amazing thing is that you insult atheists, and then claim you feel an ad that just says people are good without believing in God insults you.

Grow a thicker skin.

[cynatnite]

207. What is wrong with atheism becoming a mass movement? n/t

[PVnRT]

224. How do you proselytize a non-belief, exactly?

Apparently, if I'm out canvassing somewhere, I must be "proselytizing."

[Marr]

243. Same reason anyone tries to spread their ideas.

Same reason Christians spread the gospel. Same reason political activists do the things they do. Most people think the world would be a little better if more people agreed with them.

/shrug

Some are right. I'm referring to the ones I agree with, naturally. :P

[TCJ70]

51. Wouldn't it be better without the capital g?

That would make it more universal towards religion.

[Occam Bandage]

60. No.

Atheists in NYC are unlikely to be berated by Hindus.

[TCJ70]

61. Atheism is the total lack of any gods or religious system...

...so the ad should be universal in its message.

[Occam Bandage]

62. Why does that follow?

The problem being addressed is not a lack of knowledge about what atheism is. The problem being addressed is a Christonormative society.

[TCJ70]

65. I guess I didn't see that as the purpose...

...if that's what they're going for fine.

[Fumesucker]

76. No, atheism is a lack of *belief"...

As in, I do not believe in God.

[DireStrike]

87. This seems to me only barely logically different than "I believe there is no god".

Which is a belief. And a belief about the nature of the universe, and religion. Thus, a religious belief.

Where am I wrong? I think if anything it's possible for the words used to be incapable of correctly communicating all the information in the (would-be) statement.

But doesn't that still leave the idea that any stake in whether there is a god, affirmative or negative, is a religious belief?

[Fumesucker]

127. No, one is a *lack* of belief..

I do not believe there is a god.

Is not the same thing as...

I believe there is no god.

One is a statement of a lack of belief the other is the affirmation of a positive belief.

I realize that the difference is hard for some people to grasp but there is indeed a difference.

And not believing in god is a religion to the same extent that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

[DireStrike]

140. Not believing in god is not a religion. I'd never make that claim.

Would you say that "should I believe in god?" is a religious question? If the only question were "DO I believe in god", that is a little better... but I don't think anyone can fail to consider whether they should believe, which seems to be inescapably a religious question.

Are you saying the methodology used to arrive at the conclusion (faith vs. reason) determines whether it's a religious issue?

[Fumesucker]

177. "I believe there is no god" is a statement of faith..

Since there basically is no unambiguous evidence either way..

"I do not believe in god" is more of a rational statement and is more often arrived at rationally.

"Should I believe in god" seems to me to be more of a social question, so many other people believe in god, perhaps I should too..

I don't make my decisions on what or what not to believe based on a popularity contest, or at least I try not to.

[DireStrike]

179. Something still bugs me, but I'll let it go for now.

Thanks for indulging.

[RetroLounge]

171. "not believing in god is a religion to the same extent that not collecting stamps is a hobby."

:applause:

RL

[ipaint]

132. I have a belief in not stating myth as fact or making claims of fact that can't be proven.

I don't claim god does or doesn't exist but for those who do...prove it.

[SidDithers]

52. Excellent!...

I'll be in NYC for 4 days at the end of the month, hope to see one.

My wife and I are both uppity atheists :hi:

Sid

[mainer]

56. Kind of preaching to the choir in NYC

These posters need to go up in Atlanta or Dallas.

[rvablue]

105. I think it's funny that atheists who are more than like against proselytizing by religous groups are

paying for an ad campaign. Hilarious! :rofl:

[Blue-Jay]

113. It's even funnier that you don't know the definition of "proselytizing.

Hilarious, in fact! :rofl:

[mitchum]

173. Well done

[rvablue]

175. Where's my error. Help me out?

:rofl:

[Blue-Jay]

193. OK. I'll help out.

If one were to proselytize, one would be attempting to convert people. The billboard as shown is doing nothing of the sort. It's merely saying that it OK to not believe in god. They're not trying to recruit christians or anyone else to atheism. I know that where I grew up, it was Not OK to be an unbeliever.

[Liquorice]

229. The website they are advertising on that billboard certainly does proselytize. nt

[Liquorice]

197. Yes I agree. It's really very stupid of them. nt

[mitchum]

299. So...promoting thought is stupid, but promoting belief in fairy tales is...what?

[Arugula Latte]

206. At least they're not ringing doorbells to spout fairytales, though.

It's just a couple lines of text to provoke thought -- not really proselytizing, IMO.

[PVnRT]

225. "more than like"? What?

[JonQ]

114. I don't care for anyone sharing their beliefs

unsolicited.

[Forkboy]

122. Who asked you?

:hide:

;)

[JonQ]

124. Heheh

touche.

I guess I could argue that putting this up in a forum where people could comment suggests a desire for responses.

But still, touche.

[Forkboy]

126. I actually tend to agree with you.

Basically, if I want to know about something, or need something, I'll go looking for it. When it comes to strongly held beliefs, be it religion or atheism, I'm really not that interested one way or the other.

[Soylent Brice]

141. i never plan on responses to anything i post.

most of what i post sinks like a stone anyways.

i post things that i find interesting. no more, no less.
again, i found this interesting, thought i'd share.

are you proposing i should just keep it to myself next time?

[JonQ]

259. I was actually more referencing the atheists

who put up the poster (and theists who do the same).

Obviously people come here to get stories like this, so that's different. People don't generally go to the subway (or similiar places) to find/reject god.

[Soylent Brice]

265. true, but it would be kind of ridiculous to put up the poster

in the middle of the desert where no one will see it too.

i think it's a good thing. people should know that they're not alone in their lack of belief, and that they shouldn't have to "hide" said lack of beliefs.

[blondeatlast]

147. Okay. Um, shouldn't there be some kind of drama associated with this? nt

:shrug:

[Blue-Jay]

149. They posted some billboards in Chicago, and there was no drama at all.

http://www.windycitizen.com/blogs/little-things/2009/10/20/new-atheist-billboard-downtown-is-non-issue-most

[Toasterlad]

162. Not In NYC.

Nobody there gives a shit what anybody else does.

There's a lot to be said for that.

[Dorian Gray]

199. Which is why

I love it here. :)

[blondeatlast]

236. I agree; that's a damn good way to ensure civility, actually! nt

[Liquorice]

195. Some people think that the more people they can get to believe the way

they believe, the more likely it is that what they believe is true. That goes for religious nuts and atheists who proselytize.

[buzzycrumbhunger]

208. I think the ad is overly nebulous. . .

I mean. . . without knowing who paid for it, I'm not sure I would realize it was anti-religion. It could just as easily be one of those sappy commercials trying to lure you into making a call so a pair of Mormons come knocking at your door to lure you to the cult. :shrug:

There have been much more effective ad campaigns elsewhere:

[madeline_con]

222. What a fun thread so far...

:popcorn:

[jmm]

232. Raising awareness is the new proselytizing?

It's not like they're going door to door but what do I know :popcorn:

[MellowDem]

233. "A million New Yorkers are good with God"

"Are you?" Not too hard to see the reverse of this, and yes, it is proselytizing, and yes, it is stupid. It's just another step towards atheism becoming more and more like its own ideology. Instead of just being a disbelief in God, some are trying to twist it to mean a contempt for all religion, an ideology that seeks to destroy religion. But really, ideology is just another name for religion, just without a "God".

[GoneOffShore]

234. I've considered what you've said and

it's absolute bullshit.

The campaign is to let people who feel isolated know that they are not alone in their disbelief or lack of belief. And that there is nothing wrong with that position.

[MellowDem]

260. That's just an excuse...

and not a logical one. Their own website says they are "promoting wider acceptance of a more rational and realistic view of the universe". I never said there was anything "wrong" with it, but I do think it is kind of stupid. It is an effort to make atheism into an ideology, pure and simple. Like I said, consider the reverse statement, and it definitely comes off as trying to convert. If it just wanted to create awareness, it would not have done the ad that way.

[GoneOffShore]

278. Ah, so we'll disagree - I do not think it is "stupid"

But a way to get less "god" in the public sphere.

And, in light of the blasphemy resolutions before the UN that the US is supporting, it's time to speak out against religion and to recognize it for what it is: A way to wield power over people that plays on ancient fears.

[Toasterlad]

235. I Think What You Mean To Say Is:

"I'm too scared to imagine that there is nothing past this life, and that when I die, I'm dead forever, and anything that threatens my belief in a being that will let me exist after I die, I will completely disregard as evil and stupid. Because my mind is completely closed to scary ideas."

Meanwhile, isn't it funny that, despite all the religious nuts trying to claim atheists are just another religion, atheists don't collect money from all their congregations like every other religion?

[MellowDem]

261. Why are you making this about me?

You don't know my beliefs, and it has nothing to do with them. Personally, I think anyone who says they "know" what happens after death to be a complete idiot. I don't know why it's even considered part of atheism. Just having a disbelief in God doesn't mean all atheists believe "there is nothing past this life", but once again, atheism is being twisted to mean what it doesn't, to become an ideology that it isn't.

Atheist groups already do collect money from their members, and I really don't see the difference. The ironic thing is that the most non-theist atheists strive so hard to be just like their hated evangelical brethren.

[Toasterlad]

266. I'm Sorry, I Thought You Posted Your Opionion. Did God Put It There?

You posted your opinion, I posted my opinion of your opinion. If that makes it "about you", then every response to every post you ever got is "about you".

I don't claim to know what happens after death, although I'd bet my immortal soul that it's not a gated community with some dude out front working security, who, if he likes you, lets you in to party with Mother Theresa and Ghandi and MLK for eternity, while those he doesn't like get sent to bake in an oven alongside Nixon and Ty Cobb, also for eternity. I'm pretty sure you'd have to be a fucking moron to believe that.

I've been an agnostic for over 30 years, and no one has collected one dime from me. Do you know why the collection plate is taking so long to get to me? Maybe it's because I don't actually go to a building every week with a bunch of other sheep, a building that exists for the sole purpose of getting people to put their money into a basket.

[MellowDem]

268. Whatever...

If you want to go off about how much you hate religion, that's fine, but it is kinda going off topic.

[Toasterlad]

273. Um...Weren't You the One Who Called Signs Advancing Atheism "Stupid"?

Confronting your hatred of atheism with my hatred of religion seems more tit-for-tat than off-topic.

[MellowDem]

300. It has nothing to do with a hatred of atheism...

and everything to do with pointing out how humanists and others are using atheism to try to draw others into their own philosophy/worldview/belief system. Their tactics are not too different in some ways from certain religious groups, tactics that I personally find tasteless and stupid whoever uses them.

[Toasterlad]

305. If You Can't See the Difference Between Preying on People's Fears In Order to Profit From Them

and trying to encourage people to freely think for themselves for absolutely no monetary gain whatsoever then there's something wrong with you.

[Marr]

244. Where are you getting that from?

Some atheists might agree with your definition of atheism being about a "disbelief in God", but I think most would say it's more of a lack of belief in gods. It's not a belief system.

[MellowDem]

264. I agree it's not a belief system...

it is simply one belief. Simply the belief that there is no God. Every opinion is a "belief", and atheism is no different. I understand that some atheists don't want to get muddled with the religious connotations that can surround the word belief, but the truth is, a lack of belief in something is a belief, and it seems rather infantile to argue semantics about it. Look up the definition of belief and you'll see atheism fits just fine as one belief.

Which is why it is strange that from that one belief, some groups are trying to make a "belief system" out of atheism. One of the people who responded to me already has assumed that atheism means believing in nothing after you die, which it doesn't, but then again some atheists have been trying to add other beliefs to their "lack of belief" belief.

[Toasterlad]

267. You're Confusing Belief With Faith

There's no such thing as negative faith. Not believing in god is not a matter of faith. It's a matter of reason. Faith is belief in something when there's no evidence that it exists. Non-evidence - the lack of evidence that there IS a god - is not evidence. You don't base reason on non-evidence. That's what you base FAITH on.

There's no evidence that Santa Clause exists. Not believing in Santa Claus is not a matter of faith. It's a matter of REASON.

[MellowDem]

269. You're confusing the definition of belief...

To believe in something, you don't have to have faith, which is why atheism is a belief. Here is a wikipedia defnition:

"Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true."

In this case, the premise is that there is/are no God/gods. It's a belief. I understand that the word belief can have religious connotations with "faith", but it doesn't change the basic definition of it. I don't think that an atheist's belief is the exact same thing as someone who is religious, if that's your fear.

[Toasterlad]

272. I Didn't Say Atheism Wasn't a Belief

I said it wasn't FAITH, and, therefore, not religion.

[DatManFromNawlins]

315. Having no reason to believe in something

Is not the same as having a belief in the negative of whatever that is.

[MellowDem]

316. It's a belief...

I don't get why people get such a stick in their craw over it. "I don't believe in..." is a belief. I guess it's the religious connotation that sometimes is associated with the word. But no one has pointed out how it doesn't fit the definition of a belief.

[Arugula Latte]

281. As Mark Twain said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

[Marr]

279. It isn't infantile to argue your position when someone is mischaracterizing it.

Atheism isn't 'an assertion that there is no God', it's a lack of belief in *any* gods. Those are not the same things.

I assume you don't believe Superman actually exists, but you wouldn't elevate that lack of belief to an actual belief in itself, would you? Would you describe yourself as a person who 'denies the existence of Superman'? Would you characterize that denial of Clark Kent's existence as one of your central tenets? Of course not. You're only dismissing an idea out of hand because there is no evidence to support it.

If Superman flies down and saves me from a train wreck, I will become a Superman believer. Until then, I'll assume he's not out there. Same thing goes for the gods.

Of course, there are several shades of atheism, and some do occupy the ground you've described-- I'll admit that freely. I don't think they're the majority.

Judging from your other posts, I don't think we actually disagree much here. Maybe it's just about how common that particular type of atheist (or maybe 'capital-A' Atheist is more accurate) actually is. I think they're a kind of evangelical minority, personally.

[NoSheep]

250. Whenever I witness folks screaming about their "faith"...I tend do doubt it as much as they do.

:shrug:

[woo me with science]

276. "adorn"?

Is that the best word here? :popcorn:

[uriel1972]

277. I think the add would've been more powerful

if the 'are you?' was left off. That may just be me. I have a lot of time for atheism, not because I am one, but because it's not a threat to me like the major theistic religions and their supporters are. I can't prove what I believe so I don't talk about it much, so I am practically an atheist in effect.

[Nye Bevan]

282. Well I for one am not going to take a chance

of being directed down to Hades by St. Peter while waiting at the Pearly Gates, to be tormented in agony by Satan and his minions for all eternity.

:evilgrin: <--- Yes, THAT guy!

I figure a couple of "Our Fathers" and "Hail Marys" per week should prevent this from happening.

[Toasterlad]

284. As Homer Simpson Said, "If I'm Wrong, I'll Recant On My Deathbed."

[Nye Bevan]

290. And like Ned Flanders, keep kosher just to be on the safe side.

[GoneOffShore]

307. So you're happy with the terms of Pascal's Wager?

I don't accept the terms and won't take it.

I remember an old Unitarian "prayer" about death - I want to live on in the memories of those who loved me.

[Nye Bevan]

309. Well, if I believe there is no afterlife

I can never have the satisfaction of being proved right.

But if I believe in an afterlife then just maybe I will be sitting happily on my cloud, harp in hand, smug in the knowledge that my belief was correct. Unless I am sent to Hell for not going to church on Sundays, which would pretty much be the worst-case scenario.

[ChickenHawk]

291. What's the point of these ads?

Seriously, isn't this just a case of trying to push beliefs on people just like christians (or others) do with their own religious advertising? Why can't we just let people decide what they want to believe and leave the name calling and the negativity out of it.

I mean this to apply to both theists and non-theists alike. I don't care what you believe as long as you don't push those beliefs (or lack of) on me. Sheesh.

[Zomby Woof]

292. That's not its point

It's simple:

It's an ad to recruit those who are ALREADY atheists to consider joining their organization. It's simply asking if you are already one of those million in NYC.

Being an atheist isn't easy in America. Some atheists feel pretty damn isolated and alienated from others at times, especially if they have family members or co-workers, etc., who are aggressively theistic or openly scornful of atheists. There is nothing wrong with an ad that openly seeks to recruit PRESENT atheists to lend numbers, money, and time to their agency. That's what ads do.

As for delusional would-be vandals who think that tearing down said posters would "piss off the stupid and ignorant narrow-minded people who put them up", is far, far off the mark. Vandalizing the posters is actually something that atheists would expect, and anger would be the LAST reaction of those who paid for or support the intent of the campaign. More likely the reaction would be a mixture of pity and amusement, with no element of shock or surprise whatsoever. But anger? Why? Atheists have endured far worse than cowardly losers vandalizing their posters, lol. I mean: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[callous taoboy]

301. + 1

[Toasterlad]

306. In What Way Are These Ads "Pushing" Belief On People?

They're encouraging people to think, they're not TELLING them what to think. Telling people what to think is what RELIGION does.

[bridgit]

310. Only a million god-less New Yorkers? Hm...well I wish them luck on their advertising campaign

[DatManFromNawlins]

314. I don't believe in God

I have no reason to. To me, he's an imaginary character dreamed up by a tribe of barbarians who have taken turns persecuting and being persecuted. That's dandy.

I don't have faith because I find it to be a worthless endeavor. Show me something concrete and we can talk. And by concrete, I don't mean the Bible. There are more inaccuracies in that book than an entire transcript of Dubya's conversations and speeches during his entire presidency.

I don't mean to belittle those who do believe in something. It's their choice to do so. I'm directly descended from the dude who built the original St. Louis church which is now the St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans and he also built the Ursuline convent.

Doesn't make a difference to me. I still take part in charity events which churches in the area sponsor. I volunteer my time because there's good to be done regardless of the group doing the good. Being able to eat and having a roof over your head is a worthy cause regardless of whether or not you have to listen to someone fill the air with preaching.

Religion caused a schism in my family that nobody likes to talk about very much. Dad decided that since drinking and going fishing every weekend wasn't working for him, he'd explore religion. He has a restless sort of selfishness that he doesn't fully understand that is obsessive compulsive of sorts, and he figured that he could just be obsessive about God and everything would be peachy. Ended up joining multiple different churches before deciding on one he liked. In the process, I was the sacrificial lamb of sorts. Suddenly couldn't go trick or treating. Couldn't go to Mardi Gras parades. Couldn't read Choose Your Own Adventure books. Couldn't go to parties, couldn't participate in plays, couldn't sleep over at friends' houses on Saturday nights because God was waiting for me in the morning. Was ostracized by my peers for suddenly dropping out of the Catholic religion classes. When I was dragged to church with him one day, I came back and my mom told me I wasn't her son anymore. My sisters still got to enjoy all of those things. They were protected by my mom. To this day, I have to make excuses for myself when I sit in Catholic weddings why I'm not taking communion with the rest of them. My family was upset that I didn't invite them to my confirmation and I have no idea what I'll do when I get married, because my family is Catholic to the core.

None for me if you can't prove it to me, please.