Eyewitness recounts what happened in the deadly sweat lodge

[charlie]

More than 50 followers of spiritual guru James Arthur Ray had just endured five strenuous days of fasting, sleep-deprivation and mind-altering breathing exercises when he led them into a sweat lodge ceremony.
...

People were vomiting in the stifling heat, gasping for air, and lying lifeless on the sand and gravel floor beneath them, according to participant Beverley Bunn. One man was burned when he crawled into the rocks, seemingly unaware of what he was doing, she said. Ultimately, three people would die.

When participants exhibited weakness, Ray urged them to push past it and chided those who wanted to leave, she said. "I can't get her to move. I can't get her to wake up," Bunn recalls hearing from two sides of the 415-square-foot sweat lodge. Ray's response: "Leave her alone, she'll be dealt with in the next round."
...

At one point, someone lifted up the back of the tent, allowing light into the otherwise pitch-black tent. Ray demanded to know where the light was coming from and who committed the "sacrilegious act," Bunn said. A man, yelling "I can't take it, I can't breathe, I can't do this" had crawled out, Bunn said.
...

What followed was a triage situation with people laid out on tarps and water being thrown on them to bring down body temperatures. Some people weren't breathing and had bloodshot eyes. One woman unknowingly walked toward the fire before someone grabbed her, Bunn said.

Shouts of "we need water, we need water," rang out. "They couldn't fill up the buckets fast enough," Bunn said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j4PHcSvMF8pPe_CpIRZejl7OD1vgD9BFQ2Q80

[Canuckistanian]

1. I wish people would stop calling him a "guru"

A guru is a term for an honored master of spiritual enlightenment.

This guy exploited the gullible for money.

Would you call P.T. Barnum a "guru"?

[busybl]

32. huckster is the term for him

and now killer.

[dysfunctional press]

2. mr. ray gonna do some time.

some hard time.

[Dogmudgeon]

17. Not "hard time" ... it will be an Opportunity for Spiritual Growth

The mixture of chronic fear, depression, boredom, uncertainty, and regimentation are JUST LIKE being in a Tibetan monastery.

Almost.

--d!

[dysfunctional press]

20. and he'll probably have some sweat-filled nights as well...

someone should remind him to bite down on his pillow and think of england utopia.

[blondeatlast]

3. "many people at the "Spiritual Warrior" event had "amazing experiences,"

Yeah, seeing dozens of people sick, dehydrating, and dying is pretty amazing, especially at $9600 a pop.

I'm glad someone has the courage to speak out--this could be negligent homicide.

[aquart]

31. They paid for this?

[BrklynLiberal]

4. Criminally negligent homicide would be a good place to start this case

[blondeatlast]

5. Great minds, great minds--see above. nt

[BrklynLiberal]

9. Great minds...same track...

:fistbump:

[blondeatlast]

19. This Arizonan hopes they nail his ass to the wall. It isn't my county but

that mofo needs to do some damn hard time.

[ljm2002]

21. Agreed, that sounds like a good place to start...

...what a jackass! If what this account says is true, then he needs to be brought up on charges.

I really don't object to people doing this kind of stuff, and it seems perfectly reasonable to have participants sign disclaimers. If someone is going to fast for days, and then go into a sweat lodge, there are inherent risks, and the participants need to assume their fair part of that. But participants also have a right to expect reasonable precautions on the part of the person putting on the event -- such as ensuring sufficient oxygen by not putting 50 or 60 people in one tent like that, and responding promptly to anyone in distress. Presumably, the participants did not have any special knowledge of how a sweat lodge should be run, and they had a reasonable expectation that the people putting on the event did have such knowledge.

If he really ignored people when they were crying out for help, this was clearly criminal behavior on his part.

[BlueJazz]

6. 9,000.00 dollars for an "Experience" ?? I remember when a hit of Orange Sunshine would...

...give me a Great Experience for 5 bucks. :)

[Liberal_in_LA]

13. What's orange sunshine?

[AuntPatsy]

14. acid..yuck

[Webster Green]

22. Yuck?

WTF?

I first took it when it was still legal. I love it. I still eat some once in a while, just to blow out the old synapses. :hippie:

Kind of like city dwellers taking the car out on the highway to let her rip every so often. Keeps it from getting constipated. (or something) :rofl:

[Quantess]

26. It gets tiresome past a certain age.

Or whatever age you are, when you decide that 15 hours of being out-of-sorts is too long.

[AuntPatsy]

27. I repeat...yuck..

[Quantess]

30. I happen to agree with you.

Acid? I say No, Thanks! x(

[Dogmudgeon]

16. acid ... yum!

(that's also a tom robbins joke)

--d!

[Mojorabbit]

34. I haven't heard that name for a gazillion years

and yes it was a spiritual experience and for a small amt of money. That was another time and place.

[Quantess]

7. '...many people at the "Spiritual Warrior" event had "amazing experiences," '

Wow, amazing! Would those be called near death experiences?

If this spiritual guru wanted his followers to "get closer to God", then I guess he succeeded. :eyes:

[begin_within]

8. That is just insane.

I've been in 2 sweat lodge ceremonies, much smaller, and run by actual Indians who knew what they were doing. It is not meant to be comfortable at all, it can be a bit of an ordeal and a test, but they are not stupid enough to force someone to stay in it if a medical situation arose. I stupidly went to the second one without having drunk enough water beforehand and I felt like I was overheating and asked to be excused. They let me of course but reminded me I couldn't rejoin that ceremony, but it was no problem. I went into the house and drank 20 oz. of water in one continuous gulp. I was fine a few minutes later. Those people running that one where the people died are just plain idiots.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. But they would have Ascended to the Next Level!

The discarnate Indian Spirit Chiefs were waiting to initiate them into "Heap Big Medicine World, where is no difference between Squaw and Brave, Red Man and Paleface, Yang and Cohm, where buffalo is at peace with Great Mother, and where Yuppie earn 25% per annum, compounded, until moon burn and stars hide in shame and Microsoft sell below $5".

:sarcasm:

I hate cultural appropriation, especially grave-robbing from native Americans. Now, it has gotten several yuppies dead, and several more close to it.

We have our own deeply spiritual traditions. What's wrong with acid, group sex, and the SAT?

--d!

[Liberal_in_LA]

11. The man who crawled out was the smart one

[icymist]

12. People who have no idea of how to run a sweat lodge should not even try!

This is one good example of somebody that don't know what they are doing. I've been to sweat lodges. These are not for children (or people that don't know what they are doing). Only those experienced are allowed to enter the heated stones. Only those with much more experience are allowed to instruct those entering the Sweat Lodge. Much has been lost to folly when white men decided to take over Medicine Ways of the Red Man.

Now, If I wish to be smug, I could go Heh Heh Heh, but I won't.

[AuntPatsy]

15. People are getting more fearful everyday and looking for a reason why..

far too many are becoming easy pickings for jokers like this guy...

[Mopar151]

18. Too many

Wannabe drill sargeants and phony warriors - There are some people that absolutely should not be in charge of another human being.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

23. Lesson for the living: Think. For. Yourself.

[depakid]

24. Say goodbye to your "harmonic millions" Ray

You'll be luck to stay out of prison.

[lonestarnot]

25. People are such nutballs sometimes.

[charlie]

28. Another instance of Ray's reckless endangerment from an earlier retreat

"They had us put the sharp side of the arrow … (a) true, real archery arrow right on the soft part of your neck," Kurt said. "There's no bone behind it, just the real soft area .. your trachea is right there and your spine behind it, and you lean forward into the arrow."

As Kurt leaned into the arrow -- a challenge designed to make him face his fears -- his fear was realized.

"When the shaft snapped, a large piece went up under my glasses and penetrated my eyelid," he said. "(It) just missed my eye by an eighth of an inch. It was a deep cut -- probably needed stitches."

"I was greatly concerned," Laura said. "We could not tell if his eye was intact. It was a bloody mess."

http://www.kpho.com/news/21362428/detail.html

He was slick enough to get injury waivers in this instance.

And people will pay 10 grand to get goaded into this macho "spiritual warrior" shit? Teens do crazier stuff every day and it only costs a case of beer.

[Codeine]

29. Idiots.

Everyone in that situation was there by their own choice. Fuck 'em.

[earth mom]

33. This dude was selling another version of the "Prosperity Gospel". "Harmonic Wealth" my a$$!

From James Arthur Rays website:

If you nod your head "Yes" to at least some of the following, you've certainly come to the right place...

You simply (and deeply) want to make more money and become more successful...

You want to double, triple, even multiply by ten the size of your business...

You've already achieved at least a modest level of success and want to use that as a springboard to greater things...

You suspect there's got to be something more to life...

Oh and he's a member of the "World Wealth Society".


:puke:

[jimlup]

35. This idot defiled a sacred ceremony.

It was really a serious disgrace. I'm know Native Americans are absolutely disgusted with this guy. He defiled their sacred ceremony.

[ddeclue]

36. After spending 3 months in Phoenix in the summer of 2002 - how could they tell the difference

between the sweat lodge and the parking lot?

:freak:

[TwilightGardener]

37. What sad, weak-minded sheep.