If states can opt out and Corporations do not have to provide insurance, what then?

[blueinindiana]

If states can opt out of the public option and large corporations are no longer required to provide medical insurance then who will have insurance then?

[Epiphany4z]

1. I think we have to wait and see what they mean by opt out

I heard that one opt out approach was for all states to have the PO for period of time t hen if its not what they want and the insurance co are behaving they can opt out. I think once a state has a PO it will be political suicide to try and get rid of it...so I will wait and see what they mean by opt out...could be a good thing....I can hope.

[FiveGoodMen]

2. Apparently, YOU pay a $3800 fine to the government each year, they give it to the insurance industry

and you still aren't covered.

[laughingliberal]

14. I believe that figure has been lowered for now

Lowering of the suggested fines for not obtaining insurance was the cause of the phony insurance corporation report a couple of weeks ago which spurred them to blackmail us with a threat of higher premiums (yeah, right, like they weren't planning to raise premiums til we lowered the fine for not buying their death by denial product).

[derby378]

18. A fine of ANY amount is enough to jeopardize the bill

Imposing fines on people who don't have the money to buy health insurance in the first place? Yeah, that was a great idea...

[closeupready]

21. That would probably drive me straight into bankruptcy.

Though of course, that $3800 probably wouldn't be dischargeable. :mad:

[dflprincess]

3. If they weren't really interested in doing something about the private insurers

they should have just modeled the national plan after the one Hawaii mandates. At least then we may actually have gotten affordable coverage that allowed us to access care instead of the high out pocket, purchase or be fined scam they're pushing.


Link to times article about Hawaii plan

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/health/policy/17hawai...

[spanone]

4. most americans want public option, governors won't be very popular if they 'opt out'

[Igel]

20. Depends if they want a public option or the public option.

There's a difference.

Linquistic Inquiry. Enc was the author. 1993, IIRC. It's worth a read, even if most wordsmiths these day apparently speak an anarthrous language and can't follow the semantics of English article usage themselves. (Or perhaps they can, and realized there was a niftier way of manipulating people through the creative use of language. Then they wonder why we don't have much respect for them.)

[Hello_Kitty]

5. You'll be mandated to either buy private insurance or pay a fine. eom

[blueinindiana]

6. So when my employers drops my health insurance...

I doubt they raise my pay the amount they claim it cost them to provide me with insurance.

So I will be forced to pay insurance out of pocket at my current pay raet while my employer gets off scott free?

[Hello_Kitty]

8. Yep.

If you are "low income" you will receive subsidies to make it "affordable". I put those things in quotes because, basically, unless you make very little money or have a bunch of kids you are going to be out of pocket about 10 - 12% of your income for premiums.

Here's a calculator: http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx

[blueinindiana]

9. So in other words I only can afford catastrophic insurance.

The Billy Mays health insurance plan.

[Hello_Kitty]

10. Or you can pay the fine and have no insurance!

Depending on your age and the cost of insurance in your area the fine may be cheaper.

[SoCalDem]

16. My guess is that there will be many lawsuits to force employers to prove

what they were paying for your "coverage". Insurance coverage has loong been a PART of your compensation..a way to get you to do without raises, so technically, the boss has been compensating you all along through the coverage. Trust me.. there WILL be pressure to make them fork over at least most of what they "say" they have been "giving" you all these years...and as regular pay, it will be taxed as such.

the problem is that, on a individual basis, it will not be enough..no matter what the amount is..for you to get comparable coverage for that same price, so you will have to compromise & pay more for less:(

[Indy Lurker]

17. not completely scott free.

If employers dump health insurance off to the state, and you can no longer be denied for a pre-existing condition, there is less reason to stick with a bad job.

This means employees will hop jobs for $0.50 / hr. more pay.

I think the smart employers will maintain insurance to keep employees "locked in".

If the public option is less expensive, it will give the employer some leverage with the insurance company.

[Zhade]

27. Uh, that'd work if jobs weren't virtually nonexistent.

NT!

[leanderj]

7. Uninsured Americans in Red States will be screwed or what?

Like people in Texas, for example.

[RagAss]

23. Yes...people in the south will be screwed big time.

[leanderj]

26. I've heard Perry, Jindal, Sanford et al will opt out

[skip fox]

11. States can OPT OUT, but won't . . . not for long.

How many politicians can possibily keep support by telling their citizens that their choices will be restricted FOR WHATEVER REASON??? It works at the national level, but not the state . . . expecially when a bordering state has the option, lower costs, better benefits, etc.

Opt out is win-win. Those who oppose health care will lose support and either have to shift their positions to politically die.

[rudy23]

13. What makes you so sure pols won't keep support after they opt-out?

Aren't most GOP policies harmful to "we the people?" What kind of political price do they usually pay for their platform? What makes people think this issue is any different?

[FarCenter]

12. There is no reason to believe that the public option would be inexpensive

"Public option" is to health insurance as "assigned risk" is to auto insurance.

If you get tossed into the assigned risk pool by the auto insurance companies, your insurance costs more.

[Coyote_Bandit]

15. It's all about keeping up appearances

What is on the table is NOT an informed healthcare reform proposal. If it were then the stupid bastards we elected to office would have at least considered evidence regarding the viability of a single payer system. This is all about political expediency. It has little if anything to do qwith helping the uninsured/underinsured. It has everything to do with getting re-elected - something which requires keeping the corporate folks happy even if the interests of flesh and blood citizens is undermined.

[flvegan]

19. The people that make the rules damn sure will.

The rest? Fuck 'em.

[adamuu]

22. one disenfranchised uninsured person will sue his or her stupid state

and the supreme court will rule the law unconstitutional.

[lib2DaBone]

24. How sad we have to go thru these gyrations? Big Insurance controls the dialog...

.. and of course.. the DEMS in CONgress tag along...

[RB TexLa]

25. Companies aren't required to offer health insurance, never have been.