Kennedy Assassination: Johnson Was Sitting In The Private Bathroom Of AF1 Crying His Eyes Out

[Me.]

“It was standard practice for the plane to take off as soon as the commander-in-chief was onboard. Even after McHugh had ordered the pilot to take off, however, "nothing happened." According to the newly declassified transcript, Mrs. Kennedy was becoming desperate to leave. "Mrs. Kennedy was getting very warm, she had blood all over her hat, her coat...his brains were sticking on her hat. It was dreadful," McHugh said. She pleaded with him to get the plane off the ground. "Please, let's leave," she said. McHugh jumped up and used the phone near the rear compartment to call Captain James Swindal. "Let's leave," he said. Swindal responded: "I can't do it. I have orders to wait." Not wanting to make a scene in front of Mrs. Kennedy, McHugh rushed to the front of the plane. "Swindal, what on earth is going on?" The pilot told him that "the President wants to remain in this area."

McHugh, like most members of the Kennedy entourage, did not know that Johnson was onboard. They believed that the new president was on his own plane flying back to Washington. If LBJ was on the plane, McHugh wanted to see for himself. Since he had not seen Johnson in the aisle -- and at 6'4" Johnson would be tough to miss -- McHugh assumed that he must then be in the bedroom. When he checked there Johnson was nowhere to be seen. The only place on the plane he had not inspected was the bathroom in the presidential bedroom.

What McHugh claimed to have witnessed next was shocking. "I walked in the toilet, in the powder room, and there he was hiding, with the curtain closed," McHugh recalled. He claimed that LBJ was crying, "They're going to get us all. It's a plot. It's a plot. It's going to get us all.'" According to the General, Johnson "was hysterical, sitting down on the john there alone in this thing."

I soon discovered that McHugh had told a similar story when he spoke by phone with Mark Flanagan, an investigator with the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA). Ironically, McHugh gave the interview to the HSCA a week before he sat down with the Kennedy Library in May 1978. "McHugh had encountered difficulty in locating Johnson but finally discovered him alone," Flanagan wrote in his summary to the Committee. Quoting McHugh, the investigator noted that the General found Johnson "hiding in the toilet in the bedroom compartment and muttering, 'Conspiracy, conspiracy, they're after all of us.'"

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-m-gillon/a-new-wrinkle-in-the-jfk_b_339026.html

[WI_DEM]

1. Well, I don't know but I've always heard that Johnson kept the plane waiting because he had

sent for Judge Sara Hughes to swear him in and as soon as she got there Mrs. Kennedy was called out of her bedroom and joined him for the swearing in and as soon as Judge Hughes left the plane took off.

[LeftinOH]

3. Legally, Johnson didn't need to be sworn in; he was already President-

but a reassuring photo-op was necessary to let the country, and the world (and probably even "them" -whoever they were) see that the government was still intact.

[anonymous171]

2. Who are "they" and what was their plot? That's what I want to know. nt

[david_vincent]

4. Just about everyone had it in for JFK

Starting with the CIA, the Vietnamese government, the oil industry, the Pentagon, you name it -- and winding up with a whole lot of plain old American citizens who hated him. If you read contemporary accounts, you'll see that in many areas of the country, public celebrations broke out after the assassination.

[drmeow]

9. the people who celebrated then

are at tea party rallies now and would celebrate if Obama was assassinated. If Jesus were around today, they'd assassinate him, too. Not that I'm comparing JFK or Obama to Jesus by any means - just that there are people who are so ideologically wedded to inequality (because if there is inequality then for them there is always someone who they are above - if the US is number 1 then just the fact that they are Americans makes them better than someone else) that they hate and fear anyone who talks about or advocates equality. Too much of their self worth is tied to downward comparison, inequality, and arbitrary ranking that removing that inequality makes them feel worthless.

[demodonkey]

18. "If Jesus were around today, they'd assassinate him, too"

Um........ they did.

[Solomon]

35. As Dick Gregory used to say, if Jesus came back today people

would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.

[Strelnikov_]

62. "Jesus Christ was a man that traveled through this land . . .

Jesus Christ was a man that traveled through this land
A hard-working man and brave
Said to the rich, "Give your goods to the poor"
So they laid Jesus Christ in His grave

He went to the sick, he went to the poor
And he went to the hungry and the lame
Said that the poor would one day win this world
And so they laid Jesus Christ in His grave

One day Jesus stopped at a rich man's door
"What must I do to be saved?"
"Sell all of your jewelry and give it to the poor"
And so they laid Jesus Christ in His grave

When the love of the poor shall one day turn to hate
When the patience of the workers gives away
"Would be better for you rich if you never had been born"
So they laid Jesus Christ in His grave

When Jesus come to town, all the working folks around
They sung and they shouted gay
The bankers and the preachers, they nailed Him in the air
Then they laid Jesus Christ in His grave

Well, the people held their breath when they heard about His death
And everybody wondered why
It was the landlord and the soldiers that he hired
To nail Jesus Christ in the sky

This song was written in New York City
Of rich man, preachers, and slaves
But if Jesus was to preach like He preached in Galilee
They would lay Jesus Christ in His grave

Woody Guthrie
1940

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pG9W9CtvHM

[Me.]

5. The 'Holy Grail' Of Questions

[global1]

6. Right - Who Was Johnson Referring To - What Did He Know - Who Was He Afraid Of?.......

I never heard this story. If true - there must have been something going on behind the scenes that Johnson knew that made him do and say the things he said. It's too bad that we'll never learn that info.

[Me.]

13. Jackie Kennedy Might've Known The Answer

IIRC she sat down one night and recorded her memories and thoughts on the matter then gave it to a lawyer with instructions that the contents of the recording was not to be revealed until some time in the future.

[global1]

14. What Is IIRC And Now That Jackie Is Dead What Stands In The Way Of Revealing This Info?......

Can't Caroline Kennedy make the decision to release this info?

[peace frog]

17. IIRC = If I recall correctly

[Me.]

23. If I Remember Correctly

The article said the info wouldn't be released until after the death of her children

[Me.]

36. I Doubt Caroline Would Interfere With Her Mother's Wishes

Even if she was legally able to do so. And whatever Jackie's private thoughts on the matter, I'd be willing to bet that she told her daughter, so Caroline must know. Also, bear in mind, Jackie was scared to death of something and it has been written that one of the reasons she married Ari is that she thought he and his money could keep her and her kids safe.

[JackRiddler]

50. That's so sweet. So the rest of us can keep living under the spook junta. Thanks, Caroline!

[dflprincess]

52. A) we don't know if Caroline knows anything - Jackie may have protected her by not telling her

everything and

B) she has her own children to protect. She's lost so many of her loved ones, would you expect her to risk her children's safety?

[27inCali]

16. the international banking families

[dflprincess]

51. And when he was shot John Connelly screamed

"They're going to kill us all!" - Was he using "they" the way we all do sometimes - do blame some unknown entity - or did he know who he was talking about and did he think he'd been double crossed?

[burning rain]

61. Recall that Dallas was full of the wildest anti-JFK sentiment & propaganda...

that he was a commie traitor, so that it would have been natural for Connally to surmise at the moment that a gang of Kennedy-hating lunatics was about to slaughter everyone in the car.

[patrice]

8. Is it true that President Kennedy was in the process of making 2 moves, by Executive Order,I believe

1. had to do with a national currency?
2. had something to do with Labor, or the so-called "Right to Work"?

Sorry I'm so fuzzy on this. Thom Hartmann mentions these things every now and then, though, I believe, he and his research associate (they just published a massive tome on the Kennedy Assasination) believe it actually was Organized Crime that got President Kennedy.

[anonymous171]

12. The first one would be Executive Order 11110

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110

I have not heard about the second one. Sounds very interesting though.

[AllentownJake]

22. That executive order

was more dangerous to a good number of people than any decision on Vietnam.

It was promptly terminated after Johnson was sworn in.

[notadmblnd]

65. My mother still has some silver certificates

yeah, I believe this is what got him killed, changing the monetary policy.

[AntiFascist]

20. It may have been investigated as early as 1964....

but since it involved anti-Castro figures, the information was not released for national security reasons.

http://www.politicalassassinations.com/Bill%20Turner.html

"The paramilitary right and Cuban exiles are figuring prominently in the investigation."

[truth2power]

29. Read "Barry & theBoys" by Daniel Hopsicker. n/t

[Catshrink]

40. Well there is one person who was alive that day who doesn't remember where he was.

:shrug:

[kath]

56. Yes - veddy, veddy interesting, eh?

[Matariki]

49. and who were "all of us"?

[dflprincess]

54. Rent "Executive Action" - you can get if from Netflix

It's a chilling film to watch and throws out it's theory of the assassination without preaching. What's interesting is that 3 of the right wing plotters are played by Burt Lancaster, Robert Ryan and Will Geer - three good liberals and activists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Action_(film)

Executive Action is a 1973 movie about the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy, written by Dalton Trumbo, Donald Freed and Mark Lane.

Despite many similarities of the plotline to JFK, Executive Action presents a far more direct and unemotional account of the Kennedy assassination than Stone's film. The film is done in an almost documentary style and was clearly filmed on a small budget, despite the presence of two big Hollywood names, Robert Ryan and Burt Lancaster. Another big difference to JFK is that the story is told entirely from the perspective of the conspirators.

[Blue For You]

7. Obviously Johnson was wrong. Oswald's killing spree ended

after Officer Tippett was killed. The "they" just turned out to be a lone nutcase. LBJ always had a flair for the dramatic.

[DJ13]

11. Obviously you think you know better than Johnson

:eyes:

[Festivito]

28. Obviously, the word, has a flair for the dramatic.

Why count Johnson as wrong since the Warren report had not finished yet. Let alone that pesky other government report saying it was a conspiracy hadn't either.

[Blue For You]

38. Johnson claimed, "they're going to get us all". So, how did that turn out?

Other than Kennedy, no bloodbath ever materialized. That's why I said Johnson was wrong.

[Festivito]

43. MLK for one. And, you were pushing the lone nut case.

Johnson should have been concerned that they would target him also. And, they could have.

Johnson did not destroy the CIA as Kennedy is thought to have wanted. Johnson increased involvement in Vietnam where Kennedy was ready to disengage. Kept those Bell helicopters in contracts. Kept cold relations with Cuba. And, our money is still held by the Federal Reserve.

That was enough. Another hit would be ten times harder to hide.

Johnson knew his marching orders without being told: CIA +, war +, Cuba hands off +,... So, Johnson pushed civil rights and realized that he was not powerful enough to do a lot more. Then he quit.

The crew set up to kill JFK hid, but got MLK before aging into obscured history.

I, personally don't think the mafia JFK/MLK killers got Bobby Kennedy, but some of the same planners were involved I'd bet. Had Bobby lived we might have had some startling revelations rather than Bushs as presidents.

[KittyWampus]

67. you seem to forget Robert Kennedy. Weird.

[avaistheone1]

31. Actually the second House Committee on Assassinations concluded it was not

a lone nut, and JFK was likely assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.

[Blue For You]

41. "Likely" sounds too much like "woulda, coulda, shoulda" to me.

That's my take on the Investigation Part II of the 1970s.

[avaistheone1]

42. Yes that is your take, and not the take of the Congressional Committee and the experts that were

tasked with that investigation.


And your "woulda, coulda, shoulda" is based on what?...

[Blue For You]

44. On your mentioning, "likely assassinated as a result

of a conspiracy." That's what my "woulda, coulda, shoulda" was based on. I wasn't aware the Congressional Committee uncovered a conspiracy, or actually identified any conspirators. Sounds like they might have thought there was a conspiracy, but never proved the existence of one.

[avaistheone1]

45. That is hardly a case of "woulda, coulda, shoulda", and undermines

the work that led them to their conclusion.

[dflprincess]

53. The committee never got past "likely conspiracy" because it was

defunded shortly after that - and the public wasn't paying a whole lot of attention. You'll notice that the committees findings have been pretty much buried as there always seems to be people who didn't know about their "likey conspiracy" finding.

[avaistheone1]

32. -

[avaistheone1]

33. -

[HamdenRice]

10. Thanks for that amazing story! nt

[treestar]

15. Doesn't square with the strong-arm Johnson lauded for getting the

civil rights act passed (usually in tandem with accusing Obama of spinelessness).

[AllentownJake]

24. Yes he was a wuss

because his boss got shot in the car in front of him and it was ambigous as to why he may have been shot.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. Emotion is a sign of strength

a lack of emotion in such a situation would be chilling.

[treestar]

47. This story describes it in such a way that it makes him look weak

and/or afraid, not strong.

He's not mourning President Kennedy and he's holding up the plane!

I don't believe the story though.

[peace frog]

19. Weeping with fear for his own hide

There was no love lost between Johnson and the Kennedys.

[anonymous171]

21. Johnson may not have liked Kennedy, but he did not have him killed.

[peace frog]

25. Read much?

This is what I posted:

Weeping with fear for his own hide
There was no love lost between Johnson and the Kennedys.

But hey, nice try.

[anonymous171]

26. Oh crap my bad

Sorry about that. :blush:

[peace frog]

27. Apology accepted

:hi:

[PurityOfEssence]

55. Johnson was a very complex man; he deserves better than simplistic dismissal

It definitely sounds like he was scared. He was probably feeling guilty for being a Texan at this point, especially since Dallas was considered a "hostile" city and Kennedy had been warned against going there. He also probably felt the conflicted anguish that decent people feel when close associates that they don't particularly like meet an unjust fate.

Johnson was a very big man in every way, and his failings and greatness exemplify humanity itself. This is a man who was ham-fisted to get his way and still wanting to bridge divides. THIS was the man who gave civil rights to blacks, and he did it by force of will against much of his own power base because he felt it was right. This man fought for the poor. He was also very insecure and too good at getting his way for his own good.

These flashes of insight simply make him more interesting to me, and I see him as a bit of a bumpkin who got farther than he ever expected, for both good and bad. There was greatness in that man, and only those with a grudge or an inability to embrace complexity and paradox won't see it if they look a wee bit.

[peace frog]

57. I'll agree there were

conflicting emotions involved, but these statements: "They're going to get us all. It's a plot. It's a plot. It's going to get us all.'" sound to me like fear for one's own life.

[PurityOfEssence]

60. No denying that, but context is everything

It's one of those things where it'd be interesting to hear EVERYTHING said as it was said upon being found there. Even isolating this statement, he's not just talking about himself; he's worried about the government, other personal friends, the country, whatever. If he was gibbering about himself, it'd be different.

Surely, he was personally afraid, and most people would be. He never saw combat, after all, and even many who have don't really "rise above it".

Thanks for the response in that tenor; I just get miffed at people always wanting everything to be black or white, and Johnson's a true example of mixed characteristics. To me, this humanizes him: I don't see him as a bully, even though he was obviously an arm-twister par excellence, and this shows him really momentarily broken. Also, bearing this in mind, the photo that was taken shortly thereafter certainly shows how he'd pulled himself together.

This also plays into one of my philosophies of life: let emotions have their sway when they need to get out, but don't let them take over. Bottling them up is ruinous, and letting them rule you is self-indulgent, but letting them go for a bit is productive and necessary.

Yikes. Hopefully this will at least rein in those who felt he had a part in it, although it could still reinforce the belief that he thought he knew what was behind it.

Do you think we'll ever really know what happened? Do you have a theory?

[peace frog]

64. I think we know

quite a lot of "what really happened" although many pieces of the puzzle are missing or incomplete, which is of course no accident. Evidence of a conspiracy and cover-up are strong imho but Johnson seems to have been an accidental beneficiary of the assassination, becoming president by default rather than by design. Again imo, there's been no credible evidence that Johnson was a co-conspirator but that doesn't mean he was completely innocent/ignorant. I tend to think there were plenty of people in high places, Johnson included, who knew about certain things, people and/or events that seemed "normal" at the time, but turned out later to have had a sinister element or intent that became evident only after the fact. When I picture Johnson sobbing and babbling in the toilet as described above, I picture a man who realizes the true nature and intent of seemingly normal things/people/events and breaks down at the knowledge.

[Octafish]

30. l Contempt: Lyndon Johnson, Robert Kennedy, and the Feud that Defined a Decade

Fascinating story. Thank you, Me!

Here's background from Air Force One that awful day:

Source: Mutual Contempt: Lyndon Johnson, Robert Kennedy, and the Feud that Defined a Decade

More on book:

http://store.jfklibrary.org/jfk/product.asp?prod_name=Mutual+Contempt&pf_id=PAAAAACFKLEIKFDC&dept_id=3064&s_id=0&

[Me.]

34. Do You Have Anything On The Jackie Story I Related Above?

I read it in a NY mag years and would like to know the date she gave the lawyers. Google wasn't my friend on this one, at least for the first couple of pages.

[AntiFascist]

37. You might be interested in this...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1111444/I-know-Bobby-Kennedys-murder-actor-friend-Robert-Vaughn.html

Bobby found that more than 300 New York Greek shipping families were trading regularly with China. None of Onassis's vessels was involved, but he was afraid anyone prying into his business would discover he was secretly negotiating with Saudi Arabia to supply tankers to transport oil under the Saudi flag.

Onassis's fears were realised in October 1953 when sealed indictments were handed down to seize any ships owned by Onassis that came into an American port. He blamed Bobby for his predicament.

Despite - or perhaps because of - his resentment of Bobby, Onassis gradually became socially and romantically entangled with the Kennedy family.

[Me.]

39. Diabolical

Wow, this entire story has so many tentacles as to be almost unbelievable, but as we have come to learn, truth is stranger than fiction.

[Me.]

48. Night Before Halloween

Kick

[Octafish]

58. Not until 2054...

...from what I understand. Ms. Kennedy was a very private person and ordered her private papers sealed for 60 years after her passing. Even though she said:

“I don’t need to write about my life. I need to live my life.”

I believe she'll have a lot to add to what scholars know about her beliefs concerning the events in Dallas -- from her treatment on board Air Force One to who was responsible for the ambush in Dealey Plaza.

Here's a relevant passage:

From Aleksandr Fursenko and Timothy Naftali, One Hell of a Gamble: Khrushchev, Castro, and Kennedy, 1958-1964, pp. 343-350:

EXCERPT...

The most striking information on the assassination came from a member of the Kennedy inner circle. In the first week of December, an emissary from Robert Kennedy flew to Moscow, with news that the Kennedy family believed that the former president had been the victim of a right-wing conspiracy. William Walton had been one of John Kennedy's closest friends. In March 1961 Life featured him in an article entitled "The Painting Pal of the President."" When John Kennedy narrowed his circle of friends after entering the White House, Walton remained close. A former journalist who had found a new calling as an abstract painter, he assisted Jacqueline in shaping the president's program for the arts. It was Walton who had led the campaign to maintain the architectural unity of Lafayette Park, facing the White House. Walton had last seen Kennedy, radiant and upbeat, on November 19, 1963. Kennedy spoke confidently of his chances for reelection in 1964 and informed his good friend that he intended to be the first US president to visit the Kremlin, as soon as he and Khrushchev reached another arms control agreement. Only three days later, Walton found himself participating in the sad decision over whether Kennedy's casket would be left open in the Rotunda of the Capitol. Walton and Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., suggested to Robert Kennedy that the disfigured president not be the last image of Kennedy glimpsed by the nation. The casket was sealed.

Shortly before his death Kennedy had asked Walton to visit Moscow to meet Soviet artists. He wanted Walton to familiarize himself with the course of Soviet art and the future plans of the artistic community there. The trip had to be delayed because on October 31, 1963, the Soviets had picked up the Yale professor Frederick Barghoorn on a trumped-up charge of espionage. The Barghoorn case was settled quickly, and Walton had a ticket to leave for London and Leningrad on November 22. The shocking news from Dallas delayed his trip a second time. After the assassination Robert Kennedy urged Walton to go. Instead of bringing the greetings of a happy and confident president, Walton traveled east on November 29 in the shadow of the tragedy in Dallas."

In the wake of the assassination, Walton now had a secret mission besides his ostensible visit with Soviet artists. Robert and Jacqueline Kennedy wanted him to meet with Georgi Bolshakov, the man who for twenty months around the time of the Cuba missile crisis had served as the Russian end of a secret link between the White House and the Kremlin. The Kennedys wanted the Russian who they felt best understood John Kennedy to know their personal opinions of the changes in the US government since the assassination. Fearing interference from the Johnson administration, Robert Kennedy instructed Walton to meet Boishakov before he moved into the US embassy. The new US ambassador, Foy Kohler, was not considered a Kennedy admirer. Walton, Jacqueline Kennedy, and the attorney general bad opposed his nomination, and they assumed that Kohler knew this."

Boishakov and Walton met at the Sovietskaya restaurant. "Dallas was the ideal location for such a crime," Walton told the Soviet intelligence officer. "Perhaps there was only one assassin, but he did not act alone." Bolshakov, who had himself been deeply moved by assassination, listened intently as Walton explained that the Kennedys believed there was a large political conspiracy behind Oswald's rifle. Despite Oswald's connections to the communist world, the Kennedys believed that the president was felled by domestic opponents.

Walton described in some detail the aftermath of the assassination. The crime shocked the Kennedy inner circle and threw all of Washington into confusion. When Bobby Kennedy finally made his way to bed in the early morning of November 23, he spent the next few hours weeping, unable to sleep. In the first twenty-four hours following the assassination, Walton explained with a sense of drama, Kennedy's national security adviser, McGeorge Bundy, had run the entire country because no one else had quite his presence of mind in those trying moments.

More dismaying to Khrushchev, who would have understood Robert Kennedy's natural paralysis from grief, was what Walton told Bolshakov, and therefore the Soviet leadership, about Lyndon Johnson. The Kennedy clan considered the selection of Johnson a dreadful mistake. "He is a clever timeserver," Walton explained, who would be "incapable of realizing Kennedy's unfinished plans." Walton relayed his own and Robert Kennedy's fear that Johnson's close ties to big business would bring many more of its representatives into the administration. This was certainly not designed to please Khrushchev. Surprisingly, Walton believed that the one hope for US-Soviet relations was the former automobile executive Robert McNamara, who would probably remain in the cabinet as secretary of defense. Walton described McNamara as "completely sharing the views of President Kennedy on matters of war and peace." For the sake of good relations between Moscow and Washington, Walton assured Bolshakov, it was even more important that McNamara stay put than that Secretary of State Dean Rusk remain.

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfk-online.com/fursenko.html

Thanks for caring, Me. Would our nation had more patriots.

[Me.]

59. This Is Stunningly Fascinating

Thank you so much

[upi402]

63. I miss those times

We need a new Warren Commission. Hell, we need a new Kennedy again before that can happen. And that's so far in the distance I can't see it.

There are true heroes now in government but they are outnumbered and silenced or shut out. Alan Grayson, Dennis Kucinich, and a handful of others deserve my unending gratitude for voicing my feelings in the face of corrupted power.

[Me.]

66. !

[Liberation Angel]

68. k&r

[autorank]

69. k*r This was his moment of truth

Then he was sucked back into the abyss.

Great post:)

[Me.]

70. Nice To See You On This Spookiest O' Nights

[autorank]

71. Nice night!

and I hate candy so I had plenty of time for tricks.