Do men want children or clones?

[Cyrano]

I just had a long discussion/argument with a female friend who insisted that women have a biological need to procreate, whereas men just want (male) clones.

My guess is that this is a topic that has been debated down through the ages.

I'm keeping this post brief so as not to include my own opinions/biases. And rather than relate more of the argument I had with my friend, I'd rather hear your opinions on this topic.

So let me restate the question. Do women have a need to procreate, while men just want to replicate themselves?

(And just to be clear, I don't know. I'm just asking your opinion.)

[Nikki Stone1]

1. Munch, munch, munch....

:popcorn:

[Cyrano]

2. Very insightful.

[Nikki Stone1]

7. Hey, I'm having a good time.

:evilgrin:

[rd_kent]

52. That got butter on it? Share some?

[JackRiddler]

68. What is it with the popcorn posts? Always the first response. Do you have a team on call?

Although yes: This silly OP deserves it.

[paulsby]

3. both want to continue their own dna

that's pretty frigging obvious. that biological imperative manifests itself as horniness in men, to put it bluntly. since a man can impregnate (and pass on his DNA) several times a DAY, but a woman can only get pregnant and give birth once every nine months, this biological imperative has different effects on men and women.

[seabeyond]

10. here we go again. since woman imperative is to get preg, she is going to hump everything

coming her way at the appropriate time of cycle.

geezus.

[AngryAmish]

32. pretty facile

[paulsby]

62. pretty dumb misreading of what i said nt

[CTyankee]

51. You mean, that DOESN'T work for you? what?

But, but, it is the biological imperative, doncha know?

What is wrong with you?

[seabeyond]

58. wink. nt

[paulsby]

63. since she can't even read

i think that's the primary problem. i never said nor implied what she said i said.

in fact, i implied the exact opposite, which in fact is the case.

duh

[paulsby]

61. no, actually the exact opposite lol. try some reading comprehension

man, the strawmen just keep coming and coming.

please show me where i said or implied this.

i said it manifests DIFFERENTLY.

women have limited eggs, and only can get preg once per 9 months.

men have UNLIMITED (essentially) sperm and can literally impregnate every day (in some cases multiple times per day (24 hr cycle))
therefore, men's strategy will be much less discriminating so to speak, than men's strategy BIOLOGICAL urge-wise

[girl gone mad]

40. Complete rubbish.

Very few males of any species, especially mammals, are able to pass on their DNA "several times a DAY".

[seabeyond]

42. .

[Warren Stupidity]

80. True, but not really relevant to the point made.

Yes of course 'several times a day' is an exaggeration. However the fact remains that because men do not get pregnant they are free to impregnate with far greater frequency than once every 9 months. It remains to be proven that this fact causes behavioral differences.

[pipoman]

81. Not too familiar with the animal world I see..

virtually every domestic species requires one male for 10-30 or so females...cattle, cats, dogs, sheep, hogs, etc., etc. This doesn't even begin on poultry..one rooster serves 15-20 hens daily. Not all animals do this, but "very few" isn't accurate either.

[flvegan]

4. This might be fun.

[LeftyMom]

78. Only because you have no kids and got a clone anyhow.

I'm still not sure how you managed that trick.

[rug]

5. I just want a replicant and women must procreate.

That was easy.

[gooey]

6. I have no desire to replicate myself

Just a desire to get off.

[seabeyond]

8. both my brothers very nurturing and one particular brother LOVES kids adn would like a ton more

husband has no desire for clone. both boys so different and hubby has always been excellent at honoring and respecting who they are

your friend sounds like she has a chip on her shoulder for some reason

i know it is another one of those bullshit comments about what and who men are, that i have found far from a reality.

[Speck Tater]

9. Men just want clones. Preferably clones of Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders. nt

[seabeyond]

13. my bad. i didnt read the other posts before posting. got a bunch of asshole comments on this

thread. would have ignored it if i had known

[Cyrano]

22. My OP was serious, seabeyond.

Just because many asses decided to respond with distasteful humor does not diminish the sincerity of your response. It's exactly the seriousness with which I had hoped others would have responded.

[seabeyond]

26. well, your friend is way off. there are some parents that want children to fulfill

their own fantasies that they never accomplished. but that is both gender. sad that your friend has that view. maybe that is how it works in her house? maybe young?

[Cyrano]

30. Okay. Thank you for a serious reply.

[Indenturedebtor]

33. That pretty much sums it up +1 n/t

[vadawg]

14. rofl, truer words have never been spoken on the intranets...

[gooey]

15. Or Dallas cowboy players.k

:fistbump:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

67. Maybe for a girlfriend not for a kid though.

[EndersDame]

11. I have no desire to get pregnant and have kids

Maybe later on in life I might think about adoption. I really don't think I want kids and certainly do not ever want to be pregnant . It sounds horrific. My older relatives are pressuring me to get married because I am older than they were when they had kids (i am 23)
I love my puppy and my cats and am content with all of my babies having paws.
I dont know if I can even handle getting another puppy (adult dog or kitten on the other hand yes)

[JerseygirlCT]

17. Pregnancy is funny

It can be a long time of feeling rotten, or it can be just wonderful.

I loved it, personally. In a lot of ways, I felt healthier then. But I know women who really suffered for 9 months. It's so much a personal thing, and even pregnancy to pregnancy it's different.

[Shell Beau]

69. You know, about 7 months were miserable for me.

The first 4 were hell. I threw up all day, every day. BUT the funny thing is now that it is over (my baby is 1 now), I miss being pregnant. My pregnant self would kill me for saying that, but it is so amazing having another human being growing in you. No words can describe it.

[seabeyond]

70. so with you. so true. lol. nt

[JerseygirlCT]

84. I really enjoyed it

A bit queasy with the second for a few months. But lots of other problems were better. And yes, it is an amazing thing. I'm always a little sad that that part of my life is behind me.

[JerseygirlCT]

12. Not in my family experience

(that is, my parents and my own family). Both my dad and my husband very much wanted kids. My dad was apparently rooting for girls all along. (Had 2 before 2 boys).

I definitely always wanted children. Really the one thing I never had a doubt about. But my husband is much the same way.

[ddeclue]

16. Yeah but there's no sex involved in making clones - just some lab equipment.

Men really want sex, not clones nor children.

:P

[Kutjara]

18. "Men" don't want anything and "women" don't want anything.

Individuals want a wide range of different things.

[seabeyond]

20. boo... yah. excellent. nt

[Cyrano]

27. Kutjara, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but every living thing on this planet

wants something.

I don't know anything about your home planet, but perhaps you'd like to tell us about it.

[Kutjara]

31. Want to try reading my post again?

This time for comprehension?

[Posteritatis]

35. Were that level of comprehension present the original question wouldn't have been asked. (nt)

[alittlelark]

36. +1

[Cyrano]

45. Okay, Kutjara. I read it again.

And I find your insights amazing, enlightening, illuminating and a tremendous addition to the scope of human knowledge.

You've put me in my place and I am grateful to you for dragging me up out of my sewer of ignorance.

On the other hand, perhaps my above response is too harsh. Then again, perhaps we should both rethink our posts to each other.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. I would never want to subject anyone to being a clone of me. n/t

[vadawg]

23. depends if they were willing to go to work and bring home the bacon so to speak

would be cool to have multiples each with their own job and you could stay home and spend their salaries like a queen bee with their own hive....

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

76. They're clones of me. They'll try anything to get out of working. n/t

[REP]

21. No need to procreate here

Blech.

[Caliman73]

24. Such a general sentiment is invariably false.

Men and women are individuals and have individual reasons for wanting offspring. I certainly did not want clones. What is the point of having children if they are just going to be copies of you? My sons have unique personalities, different than mine. I love the journey that they are taking and am doing my best to guide them towards becoming good, healthy men.

[undeterred]

25. Men want drones.

And they want to hear moans.

[daedalus_dude]

28. I want an army of clones and a wookie.

[vadawg]

for some people there is the desire to continue family lines, or culture

also for some the more children the more security for the rest of the family, safety in numbers...

[alittlelark]

29. I will say that most men want clones - but female clones are OK

I'm sorry if this is not PC - but I have experience dealing in this subject.

Males are not required, but perhaps hoped for, but a female 'clone' will do. 21st Century men are open.


The sad thing is that if the male offspring are not clones they are often emotionally and mentally discarded.



I know you all have seen it too. There are perhaps mothers guilty of this - but to a MUCH lesser extent.


I'm not trying to be jabbing at men - just what I see.

[seabeyond]

34. that is one of the huge things i valued in hubby. my oldest son would be rejected by some males

especially younger. not so much now as he has found his own. and his father always embraced his differences.

i have seen it in some men. my father was not that way with my brothers. they wanted to be like father. but father didnt put the pressure on them

i think the more progressive a male is the more they step away from that. and i believe it has a lot to do with the character or personality of the man.

[alittlelark]

37. Sounds like your family has a healthy dynamic.

[seabeyond]

39. ya. we're good. we dont repress a whole lot in this family, lol. nt

[The Straight Story]

38. I just wanted a child to love and raise

I don't know how or why such things have become so complicated.

As far as a 'clone' - I wouldn't wish myself on anyone :rofl:

[vadawg]

46. for me its just the hat mate, its always freaked me out

no idea why, must be something deep in my psyche from my childhood.... :)

[johnnie]

41. I'm 45 and have no children

So I guess my thoughts on this are different. The only reason I could see people wanting to procreate is for selfish reasons. I'm not saying it is a bad thing, it's just that I can't honestly think of any other reason.

I would have loved to have kids and at this point I wouldn't care if they were clones or not. But once again with the selfish thing, I guess at this period in my life I am thinking about not having anyone around when I'm old and falling apart..lol.

[dysfunctional press]

73. i'm 48 with none as well. and i had a vasectomy 12 years ago to make sure.

my wife and i were not cut out to be parents.

we decided to be happy in life instead.

[JVS]

43. Your female friend is talking out of her ass.

[aikoaiko]

44. I've never heard men say they wish their kids were clones instead of only 50% identical.

edited for clarity

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. Your friend didn't make a very intelligent comment.

[seabeyond]

48. lol lol. and then there is that. i on the other hand

used so many words and example of exactly that. you post.... much more precise

made me giggle

[Cyrano]

50. Okay, I get it. An idiot is someone who disagees with your world view

Think about that for a moment. And then think about your definition of an "idiot."

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. No an idiot is someone who stereotypes an entire sex.

[Cyrano]

55. After having thought about this for a bit, I find it impossible to disagree with you.

My only qualm is that I would change the word "idiot" to someone with a life experience that neither you nor I have experienced.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

59. I haven't had Rush Limbaugh's life experience either.

I apologize for any personal offense, the comment was sexist and over the top. She's probably a bright woman. We all have little personal opinions that may not be so popular.

[chrisa]

49. I want an army of clones.

But of somebody else. My clones would be horrific failures.

[DatManFromNawlins]

54. Ask your friend to explain children's beauty pageants to you

Because it damned sure isn't the men out there who are forcing their 3 year olds to dress up in clothes that no 3 year old wants to wear while being caked in makeup.

[Confusious]

56. I want to start the clone wars

Maybe have some jedi too.

It's a ridiculous argument.

[noamnety]

57. Women don't have a need to procreate.

Certainly not a biological one, maybe we have cultural programming in the same way we are conditioned to want a white poofy dress for a wedding in this country. It's not a need, it's just everydamntvshow and messages from parents and books and disney telling us that's what we want until we believe it.

And even then, the conditioning is not all that successful, with half of all pregnancies being unplanned/unwanted.

I asked my students this year to write down where they thought they'd be ten years from now. They're in high school. Most mentioned career paths they wanted. Out of all my students, I think only one girl and two boys even mentioned having a family.

Give women the right to have a fulfilling career, and that "need" is forgotten about fairly quickly.

There are individuals who want kids, but I don't see it as a gender-group thing in the way described in the OP, except as an offshoot of a very patriarchal society where women historically didn't have many other options for personal fulfillment.

[progressivebydesign]

65. I would imagine you don't teach biology.. eh?

All animals are driven to procreate by nature.. well, or else the entire species would die off.

[lukasahero]

71. Cool, I must not be an animal then!

Good grief, you might want to consider your use of the word "all".

46, female, no kids, no desire, no biological need. Oddly, I know many women just like me.

[noamnety]

79. The gay penguins are displeased with your answer. (nt)

[Iggo]

60. Children.

We're human, too, ya know.

[Statistical]

64. "so as not to include my own biases"....oops FAILED at that one in the title. unrec.

[Withywindle]

66. This woman has no need to procreate.

Neither men nor women are group-thinking monoliths. Both men and women are just people. Different people want different things, for different reasons.

Maybe seeing men and women as wildly divergent species is good for some fields (like the huge bullshit self-help-book and junk-science-pop-psychology book rackets) but I can pretty much guarantee that *everyone* will have healthier and happier relationships and families if they just take each individual in their life as the individuals they are, and take the time to understand what each one really wants and why. The answers will defy stereotype often enough to make stereotypes completely useless as a guideline.

[dysfunctional press]

72. i want a clone that i can have my brain transplanted into once it's past adolescence...

and just for shits and giggles- i'd have it's brain put into my crappy old body as part of the procedure.

all i need now is a dr. with one of those cool knowledge helmets-


does anyone know if the public option will cover brain transplants?

[RedCappedBandit]

74. Neither

People aren't programmed to want kids, we're programmed to like sex. Biologically speaking, anyway. Cultural influence is another story.

If it weren't for birth control, a whole lot of us would have children whether we wanted them or not. Once the pregnancy starts is when the biological bonding process begins.




And, as a male, I find your friends argument to be absolutely ludicrous. I'm not looking to have kids any time soon, but when I do, I sure as hell hope they're their own unique little selves.

[proteus_lives]

75. I don't think men want clones. I sure don't.

I think one of the best parts of parenthood would be watching your children grow into a mixture of you and your partner then becoming their own person.

Would I like a little boy or girl to have my hair or eyes? Sure but it's not a requirement.

And I don't think men or women are hard-wired to get pregnant/have kids. We have that ancient breeding impulse but we've long since progressed to the point where instincts like that don't directly control us.

I go back and forth on whither I want kids. I think it has a lot to do with if I meet the lady I'm meant to spend the rest of my life with.

[RedCappedBandit]

77. Well said. nt

[WilliamPitt]

82. I clone in my pants sometimes.

[eShirl]

83. no kids, looking forward to menopause

husband and cat are as much as I care to handle