MrScorpio
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:00 PM
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This country would have been much better off if all the Puritans sank from hitting an iceberg |
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No wonder they got kicked out of Europe
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Solly Mack
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:01 PM
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Politicub
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:01 PM
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2. LOL - imagine how different things would have been |
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but we may not have made it to where we are now -- butterfly flapping its wings in south america and all that rot.
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lunatica
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:02 PM
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dsc
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:03 PM
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4. uh actually the decendents of the Puritans are the secular New Englanders |
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while the decendents of the decadant and secular Jefferson and Madison are the very religious Southerners.
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MrScorpio
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:08 PM
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8. The New Englanders built and owned the slave ships |
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Plenty of blame to go around
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imdjh
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:37 PM
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21. The Baptists originate in New England. |
LostInAnomie
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:03 PM
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They might have been total assholes, but their influence helped to greatly shape our system of governance and education.
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RB TexLa
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:06 PM
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6. This country would have been much better off without the National Origins Quota of 1924 |
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and Immigration Act of 1917. It would have been far less anglo and a much better place.
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imdjh
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:52 PM
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29. It would have been better off without Texas. |
anonymous171
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Sun Nov-08-09 02:05 AM
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51. I thought that was designed to keep Eastern Europeans out? |
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And why are anglos so bad?
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stray cat
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:07 PM
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7. You wouldn't be here... so maybe you are right |
katsy
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:08 PM
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LeftyMom
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:09 PM
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10. Meh. I'm kinda fond of one of their great-great-great (this goes on a while) grandsons. |
Zynx
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:09 PM
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11. Compared to the Virginia colonists, I would rather be with the Puritans. |
donco6
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
25. Hey - my ancestors originated in Jamestown. |
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I'm sure I was not what they envisioned.
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imdjh
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
33. Let's see. A bunch of guys known as "reprobates of good families". Sounds kind of gay to me. |
imdjh
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:53 PM
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30. You must be kidding. The Jamestown gang were party boys. The nation's first bar was in Jamestown. |
Zynx
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
37. Yeah and the life expectancy was about 25 years shorter. |
imdjh
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
42. At birth, but many lived modern lifespans. |
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Most of my male ancestors lived into their 70's and 80's, some into their 90's. Surely some died young, but the life expectancy at reproductive age was a lot longer than at birth, and at 40 was close to today's average for all persons, a little lower than today's average for white males. Women weren't so lucky, but if they lived past their child bearing years, often lived into their 80's.
My grandfathers were two of the youngest men in my family to die. Not surprisingly, both smoked packaged cigarettes for many years. Both died of heart attack.
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Zynx
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
44. It is not in dispute that the Puritans lived longer and healthier lives than the VA colonists. |
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Edited on Sat Nov-07-09 11:21 PM by Zynx
They also were better educated and suffered from less crime. I'm willing to give up certain things for that.
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imdjh
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:35 PM
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45. Do tell us about the superiority of witch burning fundie morons. |
MrScorpio
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
46. You just made me laugh! |
imdjh
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #46 |
47. What a nice way to end the day. :) |
JVS
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:19 PM
Response to Original message |
12. I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Religious weirdos like the Puritains and the Quakers... |
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mellowed into the tolerant North East. Similarly pain in the ass Dutch and Swiss Calvinists became the most peaceful people in Europe.
The impious Virginia colony and its subsequent expansions were all about the money and seem to have added religion some time in the 19th century when all the thrifty Calvinists up North had made their area into a backwater through industrialization.
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MrScorpio
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
13. The Dutch Calvinists of Western Michigan haven't changed one bit |
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Edited on Sat Nov-07-09 10:23 PM by MrScorpio
They still have sticks firmly inserted in their asses
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JVS
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
15. Well, anal as they may be, I've never had a Calvinist try to get me to be born again. |
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They're content to let God decide who believes and not pester me about it.
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imdjh
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
34. That's 'cause you're going to hell anyway, so why bother? |
JVS
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
39. But if nobody wants to talk to you about your going to hell, does it really matter? |
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It's like a tree falling in the woods with nobody around to hear it.
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FarCenter
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:24 PM
Response to Original message |
14. New Amsterdam and Pennsylvania were the most tolerant colonies |
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Edited on Sat Nov-07-09 10:27 PM by FarCenter
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eShirl
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
17. Are you saying the "Pennsylvania Dutch" were Dutch? |
FarCenter
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
32. The Pennsylvania Dutch were low German, but there were Swedish and Dutch colonies on the Delaware |
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Pennsylvania Quakers were more tolerant of the other ethnic groups and the native Americans than most other colonies.
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cynatnite
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:26 PM
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16. Hey, wait a minute...I resent that! Oh, never mind...you're right. n/t |
philly_bob
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:31 PM
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18. REC for humor & a kernel of truth about American politics. /nt |
OnionPatch
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:31 PM
Response to Original message |
19. Read the book Albion's Seed |
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Edited on Sat Nov-07-09 10:34 PM by OnionPatch
And a great analysis of it regarding modern politics was written by Jane Smiley: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/janes-bingo-award-for-mos_b_37415.html
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XemaSab
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
22. This is EXACTLY the book I was heading to the bottom of the thread to pimp |
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Seriously, I'd rather hang with the Puritans than anyone else at that time period.
I really liked the part about the Puritans going on massive benders after someone died, and drunken toddlers falling into open graves. :D
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OnionPatch
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
24. I thought the Quakers sounded ok. |
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Out of all of them. They were anti-war and didn't believe in an elite over-class.
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MrScorpio
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
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I like the Quakers the best
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coalition_unwilling
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
38. I actually would have preferred the AnaBaptists - they believed that |
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since the Supreme Being had already decided who was saved and who was damned, they might as well do what they pleased!
Two notes: 1) AnaBaptism was ruled a heresy and brutally suppressed by Calvin's adherents, IIRC and 2) Yossarian, in Joseph Heller's "Catch 22," is an AnaBaptist.
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diane in sf
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Sun Nov-08-09 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
48. thank you, that's a great article/summary of Seeds of Albion. I wish more |
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people here would read it, so they'd know what they are talking about when they start ignorantly slamming Puritans.
To add more info: San Francisco, Seattle and Chicago (and most of the urban areas in the Northern Tier) were settled and subsequently influenced by Puritans. They are strong union towns and they vote blue. The borderers are largely the trailer trash and evangelicals that live from the Southeast, through Texas, Oklahoma and into Southern California (sorry my prejudices are hanging out here).
I'm a descendant of Puritans from New England and Quakers from Pennsylvania.
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OnionPatch
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Sun Nov-08-09 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #48 |
49. I have ancestors in all four categories. |
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Some of my borderer g-grandparents/ancestors were actually more liberal than my Puritan ancestors in more recent generations, though. I wonder if the effects aren't more of a regional mindset these days.
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diane in sf
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Mon Nov-09-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
53. I think you are right--that the attitudes are influenced by a regional mindset, |
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you get a critical mass of smart people and good information in some areas (mostly urban) and in others you get a critical mass of AM radio and religious propaganda, not a lot of schooling and depressed economics leading to inability to rise above one's birth station.
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Chulanowa
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:35 PM
Response to Original message |
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This country would have been much better off if the smallpox vaccine had been invented before the unwashed cheese-eating hordes decided to overstay their welcome.
That was we could have just kicked them back into the Atlantic :D
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kwassa
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:44 PM
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23. but but but .... then I wouldn't be here! |
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In 1636 both sides of my family came into the Massachusetts Bay Colony.
My mother's side were founders of Roxbury.
and slavers came from all cultures, unfortunately.
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Lars39
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:46 PM
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27. I'm ready to shove them all of a damn cliff. |
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They can bootstrap themselves to the damn floe. :grr:
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WillyT
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:47 PM
Response to Original message |
28. Damn... One Well Timed Hurricane Or Nor'Easter And... |
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life would have been sooooo much better.
:evilgrin:
K & R !!!
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tabasco
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:54 PM
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31. I wish more witches had come over instead. |
MrScorpio
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
35. And more crooks and prostitutes too... |
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Instead of being shipped off to Australia
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Cirque du So-What
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Sat Nov-07-09 10:58 PM
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36. No puritans in my family |
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although some of my ancestors fled western PA during the Whiskey Rebellion. They managed to stay ahead of George Washington's advancing army & relocated to KY, where they commenced making whiskey with corn outside the sphere of Federal influence for several more generations. A strong dislike for regressive taxation - against which I still rail - made its way down to me, then on to my children.
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coalition_unwilling
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:07 PM
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40. ROTFLMAO - Thanks for that. Coffee came out my nose - n/t |
paulsby
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:14 PM
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you are kidding me right?
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Union Label
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Sat Nov-07-09 11:18 PM
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43. You get an UNREC for that remark |
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Some of us here had relatives that were there.
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SeattleGirl
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Sun Nov-08-09 01:59 AM
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Blue_Tires
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Sun Nov-08-09 02:06 AM
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52. Doesn't that mean the Spaniards would have run most, if not all of the show? |
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