The biggest single lie in the whole Heathcare Debate: Insurance Companies oppose "reform".....

[Junkdrawer]

Insurance Companies are not stupid. They understand PERFECTLY that the vast majority of people hate them with a passion.

So they've been working to WRITE the healthcare legislation while publicly fighting against its passage.

When will we get REAL Healthcare Reform? When we stop falling for all the PR tricks and get as effective representation as K-Street lobbyists provide the corporate interests. And not before.

[ShamelessHussy]

1. a very necessary lie

i noticed they aren't complaining about the boost they are getting on wall st. either :evilgrin:

[Go2Peace]

14. Yep, it's politics. They have to claim foul, but in reality they have a strong foot in the door

of this effort.

[Junkdrawer]

37. Imagine if the Heath Insurance companies ran commercials SUPPORTING...

Health Care Reform:

"We, the Heath Insurance Companies of America believe that everyone should HAVE to purchase our products. And those too sick or poor to afford our product should go into a Public pool that, by law, cannot pay hospitals less than we do..."

I'm sure Democratic politicians would LOVE those commercials...

[Davis_X_Machina]

2. The world's most expensive

($380 million) headfake?

[Junkdrawer]

3. Did you read what you posted?

...

The industry and interest groups have spent $380m (£238m) in recent months influencing healthcare legislation through lobbying, advertising and in direct political contributions to members of Congress. The largest contribution, totalling close to $1.5m, has gone to the chairman of the senate committee drafting the new law.

...

As I said in my OP:

They've been working to WRITE the healthcare legislation while publicly fighting against its passage.

[Davis_X_Machina]

4. It's only a problem if Baucus is an actual Democrat. n/t

[emulatorloo]

6. which clearly he isn't

and it is my understanding that much of the Baucus bill is thrown out of the current legislation

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. Yes. I don't see how paying off Baucus...

...to stop, or neuter, the bill, is a form of promoting the same bill.

[emulatorloo]

5. Yeah, nobody will explain it to me

If the insurance companies "love" this bill so much, why are the spending so much cash to stop it? And they aren't stopping the cash flow either.

[laughingliberal]

10. The 'fight' has just been to make sure anything resembling a threat to their profits don't make it

into the bills. They also spent $150 million on ads promoting reform, the kind that mandates everyone to play with them and doesn't give them a more affordable alternative. Fighting reform? Don't you believe it. Fighting real reform? All the way down the line!

[jtrockville]

16. Yes, the insurance insdustry got what they wanted.

Insurance industry got: subsidies, mandates, no price controls.
Democrats got: to declare "victory".
We the people got: an illusion.

[emulatorloo]

17. In house bill, they lose anti-trust exemption, can't drop people for being too sick

have to spend more money on actual healthcare rather than taking as profit, can't deny coverage on pre-existing condition. Et cetera

Plus they are apparently afraid the public option will be expanded out.

From their mouthpiece Lindsey Graham today:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/08/ftn/main5576519.shtml?tag=contentBody;featuredPost-PE

Graham believed a public option would "destroy" private health care, saying that insurance companies could not compete against the lower premiums of a government-backed plan. "It will be a death blow to private choice," he said.

==

Everybody knows this bill isn't perfect, but the insurance companies are not happy with it.

[laughingliberal]

30. It is possible Graham plays to his base and lies

Remember, the Republicans want to defeat HCR for political reasons. The Blue Dogs are carrying the insurance cartel's water-a bill that mandates Americans to give them money and provides little incentive to change their behavior.


Prevents denial of preexisting conditions? What're we gonna do if they continue? Oh, yeah-a fine. A fine that won't amount to 1/100th of the cost of covering an individual with a chronic illness.

[Go2Peace]

15. They are spending money to INFLUENCE the bill. And they have done that job well.

There is a difference.

[emulatorloo]

21. Then why are they still spending?

[laughingliberal]

27. The chance to get more concessions. They want a pony, too. nt

[Go2Peace]

29. I can't believe I have to explain this. They will spend money and fight regardless if the bill is

good or bad. That is what they do. And if they succeed, as they apparently did here, in convincing people that they are "unhappy" with watered down reform and mandatory insurance, they WIN! They fight to change the public perception and then work behind the scenes.

Are you new to politics? This happens all the time.

[emulatorloo]

33. "if they succeed in convincing people that they are "unhappy"

Sorry, doesn't make sense. It isn't logical. If it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.

[Junkdrawer]

35. Are you trying to be dense?

If people hate insurance companies, of course a politician would want people to believe that insurance companies lost and that the people won.

That's the art of politics in the new millennium.

[Cleita]

7. Well said but be prepared to be called a purist who wants a pony by

the DLC apologists and a few suspected insurance company trolls on this issue.

[emulatorloo]

9. Let me know when Freedomworks, AmericansforProsperity, and the other astroturf groups fold up and go

home. Then I will be convinced that the insurance companies are secretly happy with what is going on.

However, Those groups are still active, and as long as they are active the only possible explanation is that the industry wants to kill this bill, as imperfect as it may be.

Apparently they did write the Republican Bill - mostly based on that fradulent AHIP report.

[glitch]

12. They are smart enough to have a Plan B. nt

[Go2Peace]

25. Of course they will not fold up. They have successfully fought off a serious threat but they are

not stupid. They know the public wants more and they will continue to fight no matter if they win or lose. There is always money to be made or lost.

It is not important what they want us to think or how they fight. What is important is what the people want, and whether their representatives are listening.

[laughingliberal]

26. They would still like to kill off the shred of PO which is left but, in the end,

they can live with this bill. The fight? Pro wrestling as far as I'm concerned.

[Junkdrawer]

32. Properly designed, a PO can be a boon to insurance companies....

When it becomes a dumping ground for the poorest, sickest patients, it cuts expenses and "proves" that government run insurance plans can't work.

[laughingliberal]

34. True. Allowing very few access to the PO and hiring private insurance companies to administer it

will ensure it fails and kill any appetite for public health care forever.

[Junkdrawer]

11. LOL. . When people start seeing through this charade...

the cover for corporate Democrats will evaporate.

That alone would tend to attract a LOT of DLC opposition.

[ProSense]

13. So they trick us? You mean that this is good for the insurance companies:

• Increase in the percentage of each dollar that must be directed to care.
  
  
• Loss of anti-trust exemption
  
  
• Increase in number of people getting insurance, including those they can no longer drop based on a pre-existing condition (begins n 2010), but excluding those who sign up for a public option.
  
  
• Potential loss of more customers as access to the exchange expands and more people are given the choice of a public option.
  
  
• More people moved to Medicaid.

This is why insurer's are against the bill: it squeezes their profits and holds them accountable.

[Go2Peace]

19. Nuanced thought does not seem to go over well at DU

Of course they lost some provisions, the population hates them. But they gained customer share and watered the bill down. I think they will be celebrating. They should have totally lost their shirts and they know it.

[Cleita]

22. I'm for more squeezing, then I might like the bill.

How about:

*$100 deductible, no more.

*20% co-pays

*no cap limits

*Premiums must be the same for all age groups

*Premiums to be set regionally according to caregiver's fee schedule. No other premiums allowed.

*Of course they can't turn anyone down because of pre-existing conditions

*They can't deny reasonable claims

Of course, I'm describing Medicare. If they can meet this criteria then I'm on board with allowing the insurance companies to participate in a public health plan.

[Junkdrawer]

28. Let's see EXACTLY what is in the final legislation that makes it to Obama's desk...

I'll bet that A LOT of those reforms will be riddled with loopholes that won't be obvious until 2014 at the earliest.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. K&R

I got hit by the UnWreckers when I posted pretty much the same thing last night. Lots of cheerleaders and blind faithers on this site any more.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6954545

[Waiting For Everyman]

20. I'm sure they're just devasted over the millions of forced "customers" they'll get.

Crying all the way to the bank... crying, I tell you! (Boo hoo hoo hoo, ha ha ha!)

It's no wonder we can't pass any legislation right - people (i.e. the voters) can't even recognize who got a windfall, and who got screwed.

Like taking candy from a baby. Pathetic.

[Junkdrawer]

23. Money spent on media, lobbying and PR has a great ROI...

In the end, of course, all this bullshit will lead to the collapse of the whole system. Cold comfort because the little people will feel the effects first and hardest.

[treestar]

38. But they don't want those customers now

So they will be forced to take customers they don't want.

Naturally they want to collect premiums from only healthy people and then have fewer claims to pay out on. How does this legislation help them do that? It forces them to pay out on claims they would not have chosen to take the risk for to begin with.

Which is why they fight against it. And yet we got this passed even in the face of their powerful lobbies.

[Junkdrawer]

39. I think the poster was referring to those healthy young people...

who currently don't buy health insurance.

[earth mom]

24. What do any of us expect when they got people to believe in that b.s. of Hope & Change?

Hope & Change was nothing but a slick ad campaign and now we're seeing a sick reverse psychology being served up to desperate people who drank too much Hope & Change Kool Aid.

:puke:

[Barack_America]

31. Why are they funneling money to people vowing to vote against the bill?

In your bizarro world where down is up, is Blanche Lincoln the consumate liberal? And Franken a staunch conservative?

A world where Weiner, Grayson and Grijalva are all either idiots or cronies and only DK knows what is *really* going on?

[slipslidingaway]

36. knr - opposing HC reform by paying for ads in support of HC reform...

that makes sense.

:sarcasm:

[Junkdrawer]

40. Actually, they're supporting an Insurance Industry bailout, masquerading..

as Health Care Reform by opposing it.

[Faryn Balyncd]

41. K&R--And the GOP has positioned themselves so that WE pass the corporatist/Romneycare bill which...

....they falsely call a "government takeover". They get to eat their cake and save it too, since when the public realizes how they have been screwed, we will get the backlash.

[Junkdrawer]

43. And it will be a gift that keeps on giving....

Since most of the provisions don't start until 2013, people will realize just how badly they've been screwed over a 5 - 10 year period.

[geek tragedy]

42. And the labor unions are out to screw their workers.

Nice conspiracy theory from the reality-challenged.

[Junkdrawer]

44. How does labor unions getting the best deal they can have ANYTHING...

to do with this thread?

[geek tragedy]

45. If you buy that AHIP really supports this bill

because it's good for them and bad for everyone else, then you also should believe that the labor unions are trying to screw their workers by supporting it.

[Junkdrawer]

46. First of all, two entities can support a bill for VASTLY different reasons...

Second, labor unions may well support the House bill because they know that it's as good as it's going to get WHILE AHIP works diligently to make sure the provisions they dislike in the House bill are neutered in the Senate bill.

But I'll bet that as friendly to AHIP as the Senate bill gets, AHIP will oppose it to provide the Senate cover.

[blindpig]

47. "Don't throw me in that briar patch..."

yep

k&r

[IceMan4real]

48. Very true

Yes that's very true it's just a sham.


Largest Insurance Companies