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If this shit is true, I'm quitting the Democratic Party.

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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:23 AM
Original message
If this shit is true, I'm quitting the Democratic Party.
And don't take the threat lightly. But, it looks more like Harry wants to give the Purgatory or Limbo instead of Hell. And I'm not joking, or talking metaphorically.

A little background. I'm a member of my county DEC. I'm a former candidate for Congress. I've managed another congressional campaign through the general election, and have been both a manager and treasurer for countywide races.

If my party doesn't have the will, or the balls to stand up to a admitted felon President and his minions, I'm sorry. I quit.

I've labored through financial problems that almost put me into bankruptcy. But I always made my way through the 8 counties in the district I was working. I was in the hospital for 5 days last summer, but I kept working from my room.

If Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi think that the grassroots are there for the pickings at election time, only to be discarded later, I say "fuck you", I'm gone. I could get the same goddamned thing out of a repuke Congress.

Here's what pissed me off.

Democrats Would Make Iraq Timetable in Bill 'Advisory'
By Peter Baker and Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, April 19, 2007; Page A18

Congressional Democratic leaders are moving to make their proposed timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq "advisory" as they seek to reconcile two versions of war spending legislation into a single bill that they plan to pass next week, according to several House members.

The compromise language would keep the deadlines included in the original House bill but make them nonbinding, as the Senate version did, and would allow President Bush to waive troop-readiness standards, lawmakers said. Bush has vowed to veto legislation with timetables in it, calling it a schedule of surrender, but Democrats hope to show that they are being flexible and the president rigid by softening the terms. The compromises may cost Democrats votes among antiwar liberals, but they hope to pick up some Republicans.

The haggling between congressional Democrats came as their leaders met at the White House with Bush to try to hash out their dispute. Both sides termed it a polite, productive meeting in which they restated their positions but emerged without an agreement. Democrats promised to send Bush their bill next week.

"We believe he must search his soul, his conscience, and decide what is best for the American people," Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) told reporters on the White House driveway. "I believe signing the bill is that."
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bye.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Ok, I read that report earlier this evening.
Now what is this bullshit in the WaPo?

I don't make irrational decisions, but if the post report is correct, I quit!

I'm tired of being sold out.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Bye.
Edited on Thu Apr-19-07 01:33 AM by BlooInBloo
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. F
Bye
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. Don't leave. Organize the internet assault on Harry Reid, and we'll follow.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #30
73. That's a good idea!
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
62. With attitudes like yours
the Democrats are going to wind up with 6 people.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #62
66. Hm - I've had this attitude for a long time. There are more Democrats than ever....
... You have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about.

I'm sick of whiny wah-I'm-going-to-leave-if-X bitches - if they wanna leave, BYE.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. So Harry wants to pin the nation's hopes on Bush's CONSCIENCE?
Sheesh. I may be right behind you, Doc.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. I'm disappointed also. The icing on the cake was the SC ruling today.
If our Democratic Leaders do not show courage to act for their constituents OVER the large War Profiteering Corporations, then we need to vote them out in favor of true populist candidates who will act for OUR (Peasant Classes) best interest.

Yeah, if Pelosi does not support IMPEACHMENT for this *evil* Unitary Executive Branch, then I won't be far behind you folks either. :shrug:
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. Kind of tough to do since bush has no conscience...
the man is a sociopath.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
45. bu$h is a SOCIOPATH! He doesn't HAVE a conscience!
So, Reid is going to pin the nation's future on - NOTHING.

Ohhhhhhhhh. That's just dandy.
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jmc247 Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. Bush doesn't need Congress to fund the Iraq war
The Navy and Air Force have nearly 300 billion in projects Bush can take from and fund the war for the next two years. Of course it would destory the Navy and Air Force's ability to respond to threats.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
32. Only if he wants to risk a Constitutional crisis of major proportions
And get his ass impeached in the process. He can't touch money that has already been earmarked. Thus, he needs these supplemental funding bills to get his war on.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
40. And they did so well (responding to threats) on 9/11! (NT)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you for your concern.
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ends_dont_justify Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. Heh...looks like they finally found what scares them
If they can't be bought they can be intimidated...wonder if their family and loved ones were finally threatened? Doesn't take rocket science to know JFK was offed for defying these same guys who are now trying to rip off our country like a con artist robs an apartment for rent to the wallpaper.

I was hoping they'd be strong enough to withstand the threats for the rest of us...but I can't actually expect them to do that to themselves or those they love either :/ I agree whole heartedly though...whatever the reason, even if they just caved in to political sensationalism and the big bad conservative media, they deserve blame if they cave in now.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. Our poor military kids
at www.icasualties.org Thy are caught between a dictator and his court.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. I wouldn't take this as the last word on this thing. jr has created
a mess of cosmic proportions, they are just now coming to terms with the size of the problem. I don't think that they know what to do about it at yet.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
57. If they don't know by now
They'll never know. And it's obvious they don't. We're screwed. Have been screwed. Hell, the US is preggers with an evil incarnation of Hitler's goons. It's time for abortion.

But what do our boys do? They are throwing a shower party! Asking: what kind of present should we give?

They are not acting in our best interest. I wouldn't blame anyone for bailing.



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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. I wonder myself, but here's a thread of what happened today supposedly:
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yeah, I saw that one earlier today.
And I was encouraged by it.

I'll sit back and watch how it develops, because we all know how accurate the Washington Post is lately.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. I think we're on the same page.
"We believe he must search his soul, his conscience, and decide what is best for the American people."

Listen the fuck up, Harry!

He's already demonstrated that he doesn't have a SOUL or a CONSCIENCE.

Now, do what the American people sent you there to do and get us the FUCK out of IRAQ!!!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Exactly!
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. we got to keep the pressure on the Senators and Reps
and in regards to * having a soul, he does not have a soul.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
16. Only the Democratic Party is capable of giving us the next Republik administration,
and it looks like they are determined to do just that.

Americans don't vote for Republiks because they like their stands on issues, but because they take and keep those stands.


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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
77. So true -- busily snatching defeat out of the jaws of 2008 victory
Unbelievable.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. Don't quit! Fight HARDER!!
:patriot:



:patriot:
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #17
51. Agree....wow,
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
84. EXACTLY - FIGHT to make the party represent SOLID DEM VALUES of open government
and unity behind important issues.

Too many times we have let the appeasers beat the Value Democrats down.

It is up to US to fight back and get the party to a healthy place that values truth and openness - truth matters.

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
18. Which party would you join?
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ends_dont_justify Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Is it possible at this point to form a new party?
I believe the democratic party was founded on the basis that the government was not standing up for the ideals of all people, before when it was a republic (apologize if my history is off).

Couldn't the people attempt to reform the democratic party rather than just ditching them and not trying, or attempt to form another party with ideals that democrats are pushing off the table and offending grassroots dems and the 'we'll include you too we guess' issues (IE environment, gay rights, etc etc)? I've been finding the democratic party pretty much centralizes around health care and abortion, sometimes (but not this time) anti war....those don't necessarily reflect all of my views, but I want an alternative to republicans like many here.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #22
37. Not one that will be worth a shit
at least in national politics. The electoral college basically dictates that the US will be a two-party system. You could start a third party that could be successful locally and even possibly at the congressional level, but it will never be a viable third party country wide.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. That's funny; I wasn't aware that the Electoral College elected Congress. (NT)
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. Follow along.
I admited that you could possibly have a third party that got people elected at the congressional level. The problem with a third party that was nationally viable is that the set up of the electoral college pretty much dictates that the US has a two-party system. Therefore there will only be one of the two parties elected to the presidency. Therefore the power will only rely on the two parties. For a "third" party to be nationally viable, it would have to replace one of the main two. And that ain't going to happen.

Sorry if I went to fast for you. Or are you still stuck on the fact that the set up of the electoral college dictates a two-party system. I bet you can get the reason why if you spend the MAJORITY of your time thinking about it.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. The electoral college prevents a third party from the presidency
It doesn't naturally prevent them from winning seats in Congress that would establish budget priorities and sway the debate from where it is now. Thus forcing whoever is president at the time to negotiate with the third party. What prevents third parties from growing nationally is campaign finance.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. But winning seats in Congress
with a party that has no national power right now due to the presidency is minimally possible at best. I guess it's a Catch-22. I know what you are saying and agree with you in theory, but it isn't going to happen, or at least not in a lifetime.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. Bernie Sanders, Ron Paul, and Joe Lieberman would probably disagree...
Edited on Thu Apr-19-07 10:15 AM by Tesha
> I know what you are saying and agree with you in theory,
> but it isn't going to happen, or at least not in a lifetime.

Senators Bernie Sanders (a Socialist) and Joe Lieberman
(Likud) and Representative Ron Paul (nominally, a Liber-
tarian) would probably disagree with you.

Tesha
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #59
68. So your argument is
that because three people from three different third parties have been elected, that translates into enough power to demand an audience with the president and impact legislation for each (or just one) of those parties? You can't be serious.

I DID say that you could have a third party that was powerful at a state level and even get people elected to the congressional level. It just won't grow, nationally, to the size to be competitive--which none of those three "parties" you mentioned are.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #55
63. Well golly gee, then dems shouldn't have won the congress
in 2006 since Bush was President. Nor should Pubs have won in 1994 since Clinton was President. Again, it's campaign finance and not the EC that prevents third parties from gaining national prominence. The parties now have to raise huge sums from mostly wealthy donors to get anywhere or even to have thier voices heard and third parties are mostly grassroot affairs.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #63
69. I must not have been clear.
I apologize. I didn't mean power to = control. I meant power to = a national base, which the dems and repugs have. Is that a little more clear on my part?
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. You need funds for a national base
Not electors. I think we're having a chicken/egg conversation here.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #70
80. I, too, think we are at the same place
I am not really arguing that electors are key. You need to have a strong national base to get the funds needed. You can't do that without being viable in the presidential election (or you have a TREMENDOUS grassroots organziation). I don't think you can be viable as a third party. What causes what is probably a debate best suited for a couple pints of Guiness.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #50
58. Even the Electoral College doesn't force two parties
Even the Electoral College doesn't force two parties.

True, a Presidential candidate must receive a majority
of the votes from the College to be elected President,
but that doesn't stop any number of parties from running;
it just means that if there are more than two major
canidates, then the members of the Electoral College
will have to form coallitions to manage a majority vote.
(At the state level, that may mean changes in laws that
direct how the electors shall cast their votes, but we've
seen examples of "faithless electors" already and the world
hasn't ended.)

And, of course, if the Electors can't find a simple
majority, then the vote gets tossed into the House
where, what a shock!, the members would have to form
coalitions to elect someone President.

All it would take is the will of the people. And
it's rapidly becoming apparent that we need real
third (and fourth and fifth) party alternatives
'cause the two big Corporatist parties aren't looking
out for our interests.


> Sorry if I went to fast for you.

If you're going to insult me, you should at least learn
the difference between "too" and "to" lest you just look
ignorant.

Tesha
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #58
67. It does create the climate.
If it doesn't, why have we never had a viable third party for the president? Seems like there must be some systemic reason why, which I would argue is the electoral college.

If you are going to mock someone's grammar, you may want to not start so many sentences with a conjunction, lest you look ignorant.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #67
72. We have a had a viable third party.
> If it doesn't, why have we never had a viable
> third party for the president?

We have a had a viable third party: they were (and
still are) called "the Republicans" and they rapidly
replaced the Whigs.

Tesha
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
79. tsk, tsk, tsk,
Either you need to study history more, or you are deliberately misleading people.

First, the transition is more correctly Federalists to National Republicans to Whigs to Republicans.
Second, the Republican party didn't "replace" the Whigs in a third party sense since the northern Whigs and the Free-Soilers joined together to FORM the Republican party. The Republicans were not a third party that overtook the Whigs and made them go away.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. You'll say the same thing when Left-Wing Democrats...
You'll say the same thing when Left-Wing Democrats join
Greens, Socialists, and others on the left to form a new,
unabashedly-liberal party:

"The Democrats didn't die, they just became the Greens."

:)

Tesha
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. I would probably like that.
And I would argue THAT is the way that we will get a third party (i.e. there really aren't three parties but one of the big two morphs into something else).

I've enjoyed our back and forth. Hope you have.

And just so I can get a dig in on you again--you don't hyphenate a unit modifier when one of the modifiers ends in "ly." (I'm an English teacher who posts during prep, etc. and I don't always have time to proof).

:toast:
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
87. I am thinking more and more there should be a
a centrist party or centrist slightly left party where there can be fiscal responsibility, where American citizens are valued for the work they do and fight for their jobs to stay here, where environmental issues are of paramount importance, where corporations are taken down a few or more notches, etc. I think most Americans are centrists. Bomb-throwing uber-radicals on both ends of the political spectrum can go to hell.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
19. Hold on, Dr. Help is on the way.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3223380

I'm going with this story. The WP lost its credibility with me when they refused to put a stop to their compliant propagandizing.
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Daedelus76 Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
20. My opinion
Edited on Thu Apr-19-07 02:30 AM by Daedelus76
Everybody knows the war is wrong. No need to impeach the president
He will hang the Republicans in 2008 if he keeps the war up. A little patience and it will all pass. But impeachment might well backfire, as it did with the Republicans in the late 90's over Clinton. People rally to a martyr, right? I just don't see the pressing need to impeach. It would leave the country in turmoil, and might not benefits the Democrats to any tangible degree.

Just give Bush enough rope to hang himself. Wash our hands of the Iraq war, give him some of the money he wants, with the caveat that there will be political consquences to his continuing the war, and let's see how far it goes. I just don't think Democrats can realisticly stop the war anymore. Not with a slim majority in the Senate.

Democrats need to start, though, by articulating a foreign policy of their own. Otherwise they wil be vulnerable to being accused of being "weak" on the issue. People may not like George Bush, but the Democrats need to put forward a vision of what they want the US role in the Middle East to be- a realistic goal. I don't get the feeling that all Democrats grasp how important that is.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
83. Politics is such FUN!
Meanwhile, hundreds of American soldiers will be blown to pieces and bleed out in the sands of Iraq. Several 10s of thousands of Iraq civilians will DIE while the Democrats play politics and protect their jobs. Thousand more will be MAIMED FOR LIFE.

Do you ever reach a point where you will say" "NO MORE!"?
Do you ever reach a point where you DO THE RIGHT THING simply because it IS the RIGHT THING?
Are there any lines you will not cross?


END the WAR NOW!
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. Ranting on anonymous internet discussion boards is such FUN!
What's your plan to END the WAR NOW?

A plan that would not only get through Congress but survive a Presidential veto? You can say "NO MORE!" until your blue in the face, but it amounts to absolutely nothing unless you've got the numbers to make it so. And getting those numbers is what politics is all about.
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
21. How dare you! don't you know the dems are entitled to your vote, no matter what
no matter what they do?! at least that's what a lot of people here believe, and then they blame 3rd party voters when dems lose.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
23. Don't quit, take your party back instead
The Dem grassroots must BECOME the party they want, then elect people who truly represent their views.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
24. Though you'll get
Edited on Thu Apr-19-07 05:39 AM by mmonk

by the leadership's apologists, I agree that this is one of the most weak kneed parties of recent memory when faced with a real opportunity to get tough with such an egregious administration. All I can offer you is to give Kucinich your support concerning any articles of impeachment he may introduce.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
25. "We believe he must search his soul, his conscience, and decide what is best for the American people
AFTER ALL HE HAS DONE THEY STILL THINK HE HAS A CONSCIENCE AND A SOUL? Just whose side are they on? STOP PLAYING POLITICS WITH THIS OCCUPATION. People out here worked their butts off to turn it a bit in Congress thinking this war would END, and THIS is what we get? These TORTURE loving traitors to our Constitution do not HAVE SOULS. When will they get this?
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
48. * deciding what is best for the American people
we can tell him what's best, get out of Iraq, and stop with his insane crusade, * is no religious man. He could not care less about life, and death is on top of his agenda.
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terip64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
27. Cause that'll help. n/t
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
28. my sig
is with you too o/p.

unreal that so many Dems are in denial about the loss of an opposition party to corporatism. if you dare say it, you are often labeled heretical, even here.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
29. The Reason I Became An Independent - If You Want My Vote You Have To Earn It!
That includes all democrats!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. God help all four parties the day we Independents get organized.
Dems, Repubs, Libertarians and the Chamber of Commerce, your days are counted!
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Disassemble the machines ,rebuild Democracy.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
33. You're right, it's a thin thread
I don't like voting for Democrats simply because the alternative is ... well, let's not go there. In any case I want to vote for Dems because they stand for what I believe in. It's currently a thin thread.
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Checkstub Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
34. Don't Let the Good Lord Split Ya...
:nopity:
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. Be nice to Dr.Phool
He has seniority :spank:
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
36. Maybe if we elect a Democratic president ...
maybe we could get the war stopped. Maybe. I'm starting to doubt that.

But what's your alternative? Vote Nader?
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
38. The return of an tradition at DU.
Another DUer swallowed by self-martyrdom and self-importance.

Your 'threat' is a cry for attention, IMO. Either leave or don't leave. You need not announce or try to provide emotional blackmail. It's not all that important that we won't have you - apparently you're willing to give up the fight in a snit.

As for me, I like people who won't give up, and will compromise as long as they have their eyes on the prize.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
39. It is way past time for a third party
Edited on Thu Apr-19-07 06:35 AM by camero
Seeing that crap that passes for action (Bush has a conscience?) only tells me that we have yet another choice between Pepsi and Coke. Different ingredients, same shitty taste in my mouth.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
43. It's time to take names and start forming an opposition
for the primaries. These lick-spittle , so called Democrats in Congress need to be identified and challenged in the primaries with candidates who aren't Corporate Lackeys and beholding to the Chamber of Commerce and K Street.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
44. Any chance Reid was employing a manipulation tactic and his words...
are really thick with sarcasm? Surely he is in a position to know that Bush does not have a conscience and is incapable of decicing what is best for the American people. Personally, I think the bile must have been churning as he uttered those words.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
46. oh Senator Reid, this man has no soul and shows no remorse.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
49. You know, at this point we already have a deadline..It's January 2009.
I don't care who the president is, he or she is not going to want this disaster continuing during their term.

So, at this point, we are really just arguing over a few months.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
52. Politicians indulging in politics as usual. Too bad about the dead.
Bush "must search his soul, his conscience, and decide what is best for the American people," would be laughable if it weren't costing lives.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
54. You sound like you have clout. Make your views known far & wide
& try to talk to Harry personally before you leave.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
56. good luck on your new party, you might be able to get stuff done by 2090
If you get to work on forming it now and getting it enough seats in Congress.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. You know, the Whigs probably used to talk like that.
> good luck on your new party, you might be able to
> get stuff done by 2090 if you get to work on forming
> it now and getting it enough seats in Congress.

You know, the Whigs probably used to talk like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_Party_%28United_States%29

Dustbins of History and all that...

Tesha
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
60. That enraged me too.
Advisory, my butt. That's not why so many thousands of hardworking Democrats helped the party win Congress.
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Zandor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #60
64. Let's wait and see
An advisory date is no date at all. It's surrender. The Democrats would deserve whatever scorn or defections they get.

We've got conflicting stories, it seems. Let's wait and see what the final bill looks like.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
65. What do you mean "if"?
This is why so many of us that used to go to the mat for these folks no longer even pick up the phone when they call.

Ignore the "good bye" threats from the true believers - it is a difficult thing to believe that one has been had, although the very same blinder wearers will shout from the rooftops about how the "other side" continues to roll the rock up the hill, ignoring the fact that it always comes down.

The rock is apolitical, it seems, but few seem to notice.

Two years ago I would have led the parade to boot you out, echoing the same tired bromides that the true believers parrot.

Little do they know that the very rigidity they so praise does more harm than good, for I am not alone.

Beating people with a stick to keep them in line is SO over and done with, you know?

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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
71. I'm right behind you.
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Kelly Rupert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
74. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out. nt
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
75. I posted on this the other day..The Dems want American Empire Too
"This was an Anti War Vote?"

SHARED INTERESTS IN THE ILLUSION OF LEFT VICTORY

The ongoing national political debate over the majority Democratic Congress’s vote FOR the supplemental funding of the illegal United States (U.S.) occupation of Iraq reminds me of Noam Chomsky’s analysis of the uses of the word “socialism” in relation to the Soviet Union during the Cold War. As Chomsky explained in his 1992 book What Uncle Sam Really Wants (Berkeley, CA: Odonian, 1992), the Soviet Union from its inception was an authoritarian regime that moved quickly to dismantle incipient socialist institutions of popular control and workers’ self-management. In crushing popular and democratic forces, the Russian Revolution and decisively violated essential principles of socialism, including democratic control of production by the working class.

Nonetheless, it became useful for elites on both side of the Cold War to refer to the Soviet Union as the epitome and center of “socialism.” “The Bolsheviks called their system socialist,” Chomsky notes, “so as to exploit the moral prestige of socialism.” ‘ The leading propagandists of the capitalist, business-dominated West “adopted the same usage for the opposite reason: to defame the feared libertarian ideals by associating them with the Bolshevik dungeon, to undermine the popular belief that there might really be progress toward a more just society with democratic control over its basic institutions and concern for human needs and rights” (Noam Chomsky, What Uncle Sam Really Wants , pp. 91-92).

Just as both sides of the Cold War possessed their own very different interests in incorrectly calling the Soviet Union “socialist,” both sides in the current U.S. war-funding and timetable debate have an interest in falsely describing the Congressional votes as “antiwar.”

George W. Bush and his allies are eager to paint the Democrats out as recklessly indifferent to American “national security” and the needs of “our troops.” The right naturally wants to blame the failures of Washington’s incompetent oil invasion on “liberal” and even “left wing” Democrats who are “giving aid and comfort to the enemies of freedom.” The Republicans want to rev up their proto-fascist messianic militarist base by using the “peacenik” votes to advance their disturbing dichotomy between noble “generals” and “heroic soldiers” on the ground and evil “politicians in Washington.”

For their part, the Democrats wish to exploit the moral prestige of antiwar sentiment. Sixty percent of U.S. citizens oppose the increase of U.S. troop levels in Iraq. The occupation is now opposed by two-thirds of Americans. Nearly three fourths (72 percent) of Americans polled last year said that all U.S. in Iraq should come home by the end of 2006. Democrats rode this antiwar sentiment into Congressional majority power last November.

For these and other reasons, it is hardly surprising that Congressional Democrats and leading Democratic presidential candidates are trying to identify themselves with antiwar opinion and claiming to be involved in efforts to end the occupation.

“THIS WAS AN ANTIWAR VOTE?”

But just as the Soviet Union wasn’t really “socialist,” the congressional war-funding and “timetable” votes aren’t really anti-war or, much less, anti-imperial. The Democratic Congress has not exercised its power to end the war. It has not passed an antiwar bill.

In the March 23rd House vote, all but eight of the Democrats (Dennis Kucinich, John Lewis, Barbara Lee, Maxine Waters, Diane Watson, Lynn Woolsey, Mike McNulty and Mike Michaud) basically gave Bush the money he needs to continue and expand the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and possibly to initiate an assault on Iran.

If the Congressional bill was enacted tomorrow, without a Bush veto, it would fund Bush’s audacious, democracy-defying Surge (escalation) to the supplemental tune of $124 billion – considerably more than the White House actually requested.

The distant troop withdrawal proposed by the House bill is hitched to the same Iraqi government “benchmarks” that Bush announced in his nationally televised escalation speech of January 10, 2007.

The benchmarks for “withdrawal” include the passage by the Iraqi parliament of an imperialist, neoliberal petroleum law. Hidden beneath largely diversionary language about “revenue-sharing” across Iraq’s regions, this law will try to help subject Iraq’s stupendous oil reserves to domination by Western capital and the American Empire.

The “withdrawal” envisioned by Congress would only remove combat troops and only on the eve of the 2008 elections. In the names of “diplomatic protection,” “counter-terrorism,” and the “training and advising of Iraqi Security Forces” (translation: OIL protection), it would leave U.S bases and forces in Iraq for an indefinite period. However much they claim to oppose permanent military bases in Iraq, leading Democrats within and beyond Congress imagine an American military presence in Iraq for decades to come.

The recent legislation, waiting for Bush’s veto on the false grounds that it undermines the assault on Iraq, contains no enforcement mechanism to compel the White House to actually withdraw troops at any point.

The troops supposedly to be moved out of Iraq under Congress’ legislation would not actually “come home.” Congress’ “antiwar” plan re-deploys troops from Iraq to other parts of southwest Asia, reflecting the belief that U.S. forces have been over-focused on Iraq in a way that is dysfunctional for the broader and (Democrats think) noble project of U.S. dominance in the oil-rich Middle East.

The Congressional legislation even removes any stipulation requiring Bush and Cheney to receive Congressional approval before undertaking a major assault on Iran. “With the U.S. openly threatening Iran and with war preparations at an advanced stage, and given the Bush regime’s track record of launching pre-emptive wars based on lies,” Larry Everest notes, “this amounts to giving Bush a bright green light to attack Iran” (Larry Everest, “No Good Choices in the Halls of Power: Congress Votes $100 billion to continue the War,” ZNet, March 30, 2007, available online at http://www.zmag.org/content/print_ article.cfm?itemID =12456§ionID=72). Antiwar and anti-imperial sentiments have not seized the day in Congress

Alexander Cockburn puts the “antiwar vote” things in useful perspective in a recent column titled “This Was an Antiwar Vote?”:

“When it comes to the actual war, which has led to the bloody disintegration of Iraqi society, the deaths of up to 5,000 Iraqis a month, the death and mutilation of US soldiers every day, nothing at all has happened since the Democrats rode to victory in November courtesy of popular revulsion in America against the war. Bush's reaction to this censure at the polls was to appoint a new commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, to oversee the troop surge in Baghdad and Anbar province. The Democrats voted unanimously to approve Petraeus and now they have Okayed the money for the surge. Bush hinted that he would like to widen the war to Iran. Nancy Pelosi, chastened by catcalls at the annual AIPAC convention, swiftly abandoned all talk of compelling Bush to seek congressional authorization to make war on Iran.”(Cockburn, “This Was an Antiwar Vote?” The Nation, April 16, 2007).

Saddest of all, perhaps, 90 percent of the House’s 71 Progressive Caucus voted for the supplemental authorization bill.

This was a truly depressing “progressive” performance, one that speaks volumes about the absence of anything that deserves to be considered a relevant “Left” inside the narrow-spectrum U.S. political system.

All the Democratic congresspersons who voted to fund Bush’s criminal War last March should be sent the special Certificates of Iraq War Ownership that peace activists have designed for them (see http://www.mfso.org/article. php?id=953).

“TO HELP PEOPLE WHO ARE UNABLE TO GET ALONG”

There’s little to be surprised about in this pathetic expression of U.S. “representative democracy.” The Democratic Party is a conservative, corporate dominated and broadly imperialist coalition of mostly elite interests that includes a sizeable contingent of pro-war “Blue Dog” Democrats and numerous dedicated Third Way “New Democrats” like Barack Obama and the noted militarist Hillary Clinton. With their eyes firmly fixed on the supreme electoral prize of 2008, its “realist,” “pragmatic,” and power-obsessed leaders have a vested interest in Bush and the Republicans being saddled with the bloody Iraq fiasco until the next quadrennial election extravaganza. The Democrats are walking a fine line between their need to seem responsive to majority antiwar opinion and their fear of seeming to support Bush’s efforts to blame them for “losing Iraq.” They are not convinced that the antiwar movement is sufficiently organized and powerful to make them pay any significant price for prolonging and even expanding the war.

Deeply committed to the doctrinal notion that the U.S is an inherently noble, benevolent and democratic force in the world, top Democrats insist on combining their calls for (partial and qualified) “withdrawal” with preposterous and offensive claims that the U.S. has done everything it can “for the Iraqis.” As leading “Blue Dog” (right-wing) Democratic Rep. John Tanner (D-TN) told the Public Broadcasting System a few weeks ago:

“We…need to send a message to the Iraqis. Look, this has been four-plus years now, four years and three days. We have lost over 3,000 people. We have lost over 25,000 wounded. The Iraqis have had Saddam Hussein taken out. They have had two elections. They have had a government now for over a year. And we see no progress on them….it's time for them to step up. I am past the point of asking young military families in this country to continue to die and the American taxpayers to spend $2.5 billion a week in Iraq to help people who are seemingly unwilling or unable to get along. And, while they're shooting at each other, both sides are shooting at us.”

“I don't -- I think it's time for us not to be the policemen on the beat in the city of Baghdad. We're not talking about leaving the area. We're not going to leave the area. But I think that a timeline and a message to the Iraqis: Look, it's time for you people to get along. We're not going to stay here open-endedly, shedding our blood and our taxpayer money forever.”

“But, until the Iraqis understand that, every time something goes wrong, the Americans are going to be there to fight, die, and -- and, as I said, we're spending $200,000 a minute in Iraq. I'm not willing to keep on asking our taxpayers, and particularly these young military families, to do this forever.”

“And, at some point, if the Iraqis are unwilling or unable to do something -- we're not talking about leaving. We're not talking about in any way impacting the commanders' options. In fact, this timeline is way beyond what the president himself said the surge would do, whether it would work or not” (PBS Nightly News, March 22 2007, available online at www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/ politics/jan-june07/wardebate_03-22.html).

This by now standard Democratic Party rhetoric advances an interesting take on the U.S. assault on Mesopotamia four years after world history’s most powerful military state invaded that country, sacked its civil society, and essentially disbanded its state. The U.S. has deliberately provoked and fueled the very internal Iraqi factional and religious strife that leading Democrats cite as an example of Iraqis’ hopeless division.

WHY “WE’RE NOT GOING TO LEAVE THE AREA”

It’s worth noting that Tanner felt compelled to say that “we’re not going to leave the area” three (3) times. Gee, what’s that about? The answer is technically “taboo,” but it’s quite simple. Top Democrats are just as committed as the Republicans to preventing what would amount to a geopolitical, world-systemic catastrophe for the American Empire: the loss of U.S. control over Middle Eastern oil. The notion of the people and/or states of that region doing whatever they wish with the remarkable, economically and geopolitically super-strategic oil that sits under the nominally sovereign soils – possibly even forming production and sales agreements with the Asian Security Grid (thereby accelerating the United States’ devolution to the status of a second-rate world power) – is anathema to the good Men and Women of Empire atop both wings of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Party.

The not very “left” wing of the nation’s dominant political duopoly is just as dedicated as its more explicitly business-dominated counterpart to keeping the U.S. military boot on the Middle Eastern oil spigot. “Responsible” foreign policy thinkers and makers in both parties wish to maintain the U.S. “veto power” (George Kennan) and “critical leverage” (Zbigniew Brzezinski) that the control of the Middle Eastern oil “prize” gives Washington over increasingly more advanced competitors in the world capitalist system (Noam Chomsky and Glbert Achcar, Perilous Power: the Middle East and U.S. Foreign Policy
Iraq’s oil wealth, by the way, is significantly greater than often assumed. Its proven reserves of 115 barrels make it the third largest oil state in the world (behind Saudi Arabia and Canada). But recent reports suggest that it may possess an additional 200 million barrels, making it home to one fourth of the world’s petroleum. Thanks to three decades of largely U.S-imposed chaos (war, sanctions, civic collapse, government dissolution and the like), moreover, Iraq’s spectacular oil reserves are remarkably “underdeveloped.” They are exceptionally “virginal” – close to the surface, and thus accessible for rapid and cheap extraction some day (A.K. Gupta, “Oil, Neoliberalism and Sectarianism in Iraq,” Z Magazine, April 2007)

“OWN NOTHING, CONTROL EVERYTHING”

Which brings us back to the occupation government’s draft oil law. Next May, the Iraq National Assembly is likely to finalize petroleum legislation worked up by the Iraq cabinet in “consultation” with the White House, the world’s leading petroleum corporations (the “majors”) and the U.S.-based neoliberal consulting firm BearingPoint – the proud recipient of a $240 million federal grant to help create “a competitive private sector” in Iraq (Gupta, “Oil, Neoliberalism and Sectarianism in Iraq”)

The details of the complex draft legislation are a bit murky, but the final bill will certainly mandate “Production Sharing Agreements” (PSAs) that could (some day) confer astonishing profits on giant Western oil corporations at the expense of the Iraqi people and the Iraqi government. Currently used in relation to just 12 percent of the world’s oil reserves, PSAs leave ultimate oil ownership with the governments under whose soil petroleum sits. But they abolish the state’s monopoly over oil production, something that is more than sufficient to satisfy the profit lust of Western capital. Consistent with Standard Oil founder John D. Rockefeller’s famous managerial-capitalist maxim “own nothing, control everything,” PSAs reserve the oil industry’s leading profit centers – exploration and production – for private, generally multinational firms on terms that are highly favorable to those companies (see Antonia Juhasz, “Spoils of War: Oil, the U.S.-Middle East Free Trade Area and the Bush Agenda,” In These Times, January 2007).

Under draft oil law provisions leaked and disseminated over the last year, the “majors” and a number of other giant global firms will be permitted to recoup 60 percent or more of their Iraqi oil revenues during the initial “cost recovery” phase of militarily imposed Mesopotamian oil privatization. Profit rates will then fall to 20 percent, still double the PSA norm, with a special provision permitting transnational firms to “transfer any net profits from petroleum operations to outside Iraq.” Another part of the draft legislation requires any dispute between external oil corporations and the Iraq government to be resolved through international arbitration – something that will certainly favor Western (chiefly Anglo and U.S.) capital over “sovereign” Iraq (Gupta, “Oil, Neoliberalism and Sectarianism in Iraq”).

The draft law provides no guarantees for Iraqi state participation, requiring the Iraqi state oil company to compete against global firms for the right to explore and produce new oil fields in occupied Iraq. Depending on how relevant authorities interpret the draft law’s call for “the speedy and efficient development of the fields discovered but partially or entirely not yet developed,” the proportion of the Iraqi oil prize that could be open to neoliberal “privatization lite” ranges from two-thirds to one hundred percent. Not surprisingly, the official U.S. position is that none of Iraq’s oil fields are fully developed, something that will permit the big transnationals to move into any and all of the nation’s oil field (Gupta, “Oil, Neoliberalism and Sectarianism in Iraq”).

The draft petroleum law provisions we know about are consistent with the well-known lust of the majors and their White House allies to get their hands on the greatest raw material prize of the 21st century. As the New York–based Global Policy Forum noted last year:

“According to oil industry experts, new exploration will probably raise Iraq’s reserves to 200+ billion barrels of high-grade crude, extraordinarily cheap to produce. The four giant firms located in the US and the UK have been keen to get back into Iraq, from which they were excluded with the nationalization of 1972. During the final years of the Saddam era, they envied companies from France, Russia, China, and elsewhere, who had obtained major contracts. But UN sanctions (kept in place by the US and the UK) kept those contracts inoperable. Since the invasion and occupation of Iraq in 2003, everything has changed. In the new setting, with Washington running the show, ‘friendly’ companies expect to gain most of the lucrative oil deals that will be worth hundreds of billions of dollars in profits in the coming decades. The new Iraqi constitution of 2005, greatly influenced by US advisors, contains language that guarantees a major role for foreign companies. Negotiators hope soon to complete deals on Production Sharing Agreements that will give the companies control over dozens of fields, including the fabled super-giant Majnoon. However, despite pressure from the US government and foreign oil companies, the current Iraqi government has not passed a national oil law” (Global Policy Forum, “Oil and Iraq,” http://www.global policy.org/security/oil/irqindx.Htm).

THE LIMITS OF IMPERIAL FAILURE

The majors have yet to arrive on a large-scale in Iraq for a simple and obvious reason: the failure of the occupation to quell the “insurgency” and create the stable environment that large-scale capitalist investment requires. The occupation’s resistance has effectively sabotaged the industry’s recovery and it is not clear when and if Western capital will be able to really cash in on Operation Iraqi Liberation (O.I.L.).

Still, the crippling of Iraqi oil production does not mean complete mission failure for Washington. The Empire’s chief interest in Iraqi and Middle Eastern oil, it is critical to remember, is imperial control, not access (Chomsky and Achcar, Perilous Power, pp. 53-59) or immediate profits for Big Oil. Exxon-Mobil et al. may be standing scared on the margins, but nobody else is getting their hands on Iraq’s remarkably virgin oil either.

A devastated, strife-torn, fractured and U.S.-occupied Iraq is an Iraq that also can’t make supremely threatening (for Washington) oil deals with competing global states and regions. The savage civil violence inside the occupied state permits the U.S. government to more easily tell its angry and bewildered citizenry that a U.S military presence is required to “guarantee stability” and even (however Orwellian the claim) to “protect Iraq” against “outside interference.”

“THEY DON’T WANT TO SOUND LIKE FREAKS TALKING ABOUT BLOOD FOR OIL”

Ultimately, of course, U.S. forces are in Iraq to protect Iraq oil from the Iraqis themselves and from the possibility that the Iraqis might act to accelerate U.S. global decline by aligning their energy resources with the development of competing states and sectors in the world system. Along with numerous other anomalies for Washington’s claim to want to advance freedom and justice in the Middle East or anywhere else – Washington’s close alliance with the arch-reactionary oil-rich state of Saudi Arabia and the administration’s sponsorship of an attempted coup against the popularly elected government of oil-rich Venezuela are two excellent examples – the Empire’s assertion that it is promoting democracy in Iraq is coldly contradicted by the curious fact that Iraq’s draft oil law has received input from the majors, the White House, the International Monetary Fund and BearingPoint, but NOT the Iraqi public. For what it’s worth (next to nothing in the bipartisan halls of U.S. imperial power), Iraqi public opinion is against the neoliberal privatization of their nation’s petroleum wealth. As the Global Policy Forum notes, “most Iraqis favor continued control by a national company and the powerful oil workers union opposes de-nationalization. Iraq's political future is very much in flux,” GPF concludes, “but oil remains the central feature of the political landscape” (GPF, “Oil and Iraq”).

According to a 2006 poll, 76 percent of Iraqis think the real reason for the invasion was a U.S. desire “to control Iraqi oil.” This accurate judgment is simply unthinkable – beyond the pale of acceptable reflection - inside respectable Washington. Last fall a senior analyst at the Washington-based Institute for Policy Studies told Alternet’s Joshua Holland that “the entire topic is taboo in polite D.C. circles.” The analyst said that “nobody in Washington wants to talk about it. They don’t want to sound like freaks talking about blood for oil” (Joshua Holland, “Bush’s Petro-Cartel Almost Has Iraq’s Oil,” Alternet, October 16-17, 2006, available online at thirdworldtraveler.com/Oil_watch/ Bush’s_ OilCartel_IraqOil.html).

Nobody who wishes to be a member in good standing of the U.S, political class can afford to “sound like” three fourths of the “liberated” nation’s people, less than 1 percent of who think the U.S. invaded to “export democracy.”

As Chomsky likes to say, Orwell would be impressed.

“COMBAT DEATHS” AND BLOOD MONEY

None of which is to deny that the Empire places some value on Iraqi lives and concerns. According a recent New York Times report, the U.S. Army sometimes makes small cash payments to the surviving relatives of innocent Iraqi civilians it has senselessly slaughtered as “collateral damage” in its inherently noble, freedom-loving assault on Mesopotamia. In one 2005 incident related by the Times, “an American solider in a dangerous Sunni Arab area south of Baghdad killed a boy after mistaking his book bag for a bomb satchel. The Army,” the Times reports, “paid the boy’s uncle $500.”

There was also “the case of the fisherman in Tikrit.” According the Times reporter Paul von Zielbauer, the fisherman “and his companion desperately tried to appear unthreatening to an American helicopter overhead. ‘They held up the fish in the air and shouted “Fish! Fish!” to show they meant no harm,’ said the Army report attached to the claim filed by the fisherman’s family.” It didn’t work. By von Zielbaurer’s account, “the Army refused to compensate for the killing, ruling that it was ‘combat activity,’ but approved $3,500 for his boat, net and cellphone, which drifted upriver and were stolen” (Paul von Zielbauer, “Files on U.S. Reparations Give Hint of War’s Toll on Civilians,” New York Times. 12 April 2007, pp. A1, A8).

Five hundred dollars for the butchering of an Iraqi boy. Thirty-five hundred dollars for the death of a fisherman – well, for his boat, net and cell-phone.

These are tiny prices to pay in pursuit of the great Iraqi oil prize. Just ask BearingPoint.

Meanwhile we continue to incredulously wonder “Why Do They Hate Us?”

Yes, after we’ve “sacrificed” so much “blood and money,” as top Democrats like to say, so much “for them.”

LINK
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
76. I think that it is very hard to be a democrat these days
Until they get a backbone, I am not going to capitalize the word.

Soft and little d from now till then.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
78. We got your advisory right here..
Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid:

Please be advised that members of the House and Senate are elected to serve the people, not the executive branch.

Please be advised that more than 75 percent of the American public, according to several recent polls, want the Iraq occupation ended IMMEDIATELY.

Please be advised that if you and your colleagues continue to sanction this administration's illegalities in invading and occupying a sovereign country -- and justifying these actions with a collection of lies which have been completely discredited by responsible journalists and investigators world-wide -- you will be considered complicit in enabling these crimes against US and International law, and may be subject to indictment and prosecution as accessories after the fact to charges ranging from enabling pre-emptive military attack to sanctioning torture of "illegal combatants."

Please be advised that, since this country is afflicted with a two-party system which leaves no room for non-mainstream viewpoints in the political arena, the Democratic party is the only nominal opposition standing in the way of an imperial executive answerable to no one -- which most would agree is a fairly good description of a dictatorship.

Please be advised that you serve at the pleasure of the electorate, and those voters expect and demand that you abide by your campaign pledges to end the Iraq occupation and bring to account the principals who have instituted and profited from the systemic corruption that has characterized this administration since it usurped power in January 2001.

Please be advised that the people who elected you will not tolerate any policies of appeasement or accommodation that have the effect of helping this administration prolong its illegal war, while suffering no legal or political consequences for those actions.

Finally, please be advised that, no matter what the two of you do, millions of people have learned enough about your "leadership" to mount a concerted effort to remove each of you in next year's primaries and replace you with people who still believe, naively perhaps, that representative democracy is only possible if the representatives are guided by the will of the people they represent, rather than their top 20 campaign "donors."

PS: Is impeachment back on the table yet?


Your humble servant,


wp

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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-19-07 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
85. this is why voters don't trust the dems with national security. they have no spine.
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