An ex-JAG officer just firmly stated on MSNBC

[Are_grits_groceries]

that Major Hasan was a 'radical Islamic terrorist' who was a lone wolf. He said that Hasan had 'gotten through' and was the first to do so since 9/11.

He made it sound like Hasan was sent in specifically for this mission and had been part of a larger plan.

I must have missed something. Hasan didn't do a very good job of covering up his feelings. If what he was saying had been listened to, he wouldn't have had any opportunity to do what he did.

I don't think that this is a statement that he should have made unless he has proof to back it up. The whole story about Hasan may never be known, but I haven't seen or heard enough info to justify the idea he was a 'sleeper.'

[NeedleCast]

1. The saddest thing to me is this never would have happened if Hasan was given a discharge

I never have understood why the military (outside of times of draft) is so dead-set in keeping people that don't want to be in service anymore. Once of my drill Sgts in AIT training had a message on his cork-board in his office that read: "We hold the men and women who serve this country to a higher standard. If some can not or do not wish to meet this standard, we should thank them for trying and send them on their way." I'm paraphrasing but the quote was very close to those words. I can understand not letting someone out if they're still in basic because yeah, for the most part boot camp sucks, but after they've gotten a taste for the "real" military, if they don't like it, I say let em out.

Meanwhile, we're still kicking out homosexual military members who WANT to serve. How ridiculous is that?

Edit: Crap, I accidently hit unrecommend by mistake! SOrry!!

[Lancer]

4. +1

n/t

[JNelson6563]

5. +2

[lsewpershad]

21. Plus 3

[lapfog_1]

13. I seriously believe that our intelligence community

was well aware of the increasing radicalism of Major Hasan. And that they were hoping that he WOULD make contact with Al Qaeda and that he would become a compartmentalized "sleeper". One that they hoped they could either "flip" into being a double agent or that they could safely spy on and lead us to other members of Al Qaeda, both in our own military and around the world. I think that's why they decided to ship him to Iraq (hoping that he would make contact there more easily than here).

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other people that he met along the way were our own CIA agents, encouraging him along a more radical Islam path.

I think he simply detonated on them way sooner that they expected.

There isn't any way that they let him run around loose in our army if the reports are true about what they knew about him.

[NeedleCast]

18. As a former part of our intelligence community, I think you're giving us too much credit

You could be right, doubt we'll ever know. While I was serving at the Pentagon, General King said something to me that I never forgot:

"Its all a guessing game. We just have to guess right more times than they do."

I'll admit that I haven't paid a lot of attention to the speculation going on about Hasan. I doubt we'll ever have any more than speculation and the opinion of those who really want to get their faces on Tee Vee.

[ThomCat]

15. Well said.

:(

[stray cat]

26. Poor Hassan - taxpayers paid for his medical education and expected him

to fulfil his commitment. He thought taxpayers liked paying for everything for him.

[NeedleCast]

28. and look what they got in return

13 people killed and more wounded who will not return to service. I wonder what the tax-payers invested in those soldiers?

So what's the better trade, ya think? Let Hasan out and he "gets away" with a medical degree (one he agreed to pay the military back for), or get 13 soliders (who the tax payers paid to train) killed, along with however many wounded wont be able to return to service?

[Johonny]

42. I'm always amazed at peoples ability to know the possible past

He can you possibly know what he would have done had they let him out of the military?

[riderinthestorm]

41. How do we know he wanted a discharge?

There's a lot of presumption that Hassan wanted a discharge. We have no evidence of that. We also have a lot of presumption that Hassan was harassed. But no evidence. We have allegations of discrimination (and a whole shitload of allegations that Hassan was incompetent and "targeted" by his superiors for his incompetence instead of his craziness).

His AUNT alleges this stuff. What does she know and what are her motives to protect her nephews reputation?

Are their grievances filed by Hassan for harassment? Are there actual attorney filings that he wanted a discharge? Was he incompetent truly?

Sorry but I can't just assume any of the convenient DU myths that Hassan must just be some poor abused schmuck and this is all the army's fault. Frankly, he reads as a crazy-ass jihadist who went ballistic when his cushy Walter Reed gig was blown and he was confronted with actually having to do his job in real time.

[eppur_se_muova]

48. And if Hasan had "admitted" to being gay, how fast would they have gotten rid of him?

But he wouldn't do that because it would be personally humiliating -- far better to go murder a bunch of strangers who had nothing to do with it and hope for 'suicide by police'. No loss of face that way. Bizarre what the ego will rationalize.

[chelsea0011]

2. I heard the same thing. And again, if that's the litmus test for terrorism then

the anti-abortion crowd should all be hauled in for questioning. Whatever happened the list where doctors who performed abortions were X'd off after they were killed. If that's not a terrorist conspiracy than what is?

[Cha]

3. There will be a lot of opinions

coming out on this but the military with the COC will get to the bottom of it and they won't be dealing in bullshit.

[sarge43]

6. How does he know any of this?

JAG isn't intell or investigative. Further, how does a navy type get involved anything Army?

If this guy was part of a deep investigation team, ex, former or any other status he has no business running his mouth about security issues. If he were part of such a team and when he left the service he signed statements he'd zip lips else things would get ugly.

Sounds like a poser.

[NeedleCast]

7. Heh, since when has lack of evidence slowed down the right-wing hit squad?

Terra, Terra, Terra!

[depakid]

9. He doesn't- the media needed a barker

If not this guy, they'd have found someone else.

[sarge43]

33. It does sound that way. Shameful. n/t

[Are_grits_groceries]

11. He was an ex-JAG officer

who was now at some college. They were asking him primarily about why Hasan would be tried by the military and not in civilian courts.

He answered that, and then he went off on his Hasan tangent.

I don't think he knows anything. He was just giving out what was I think an opinion. However, he was stating it as fact.

[Cleita]

8. I didn't see who the MSNBC anchor was, but that exJAG can say what he likes.

However, MSNBC should have made him back his statement up. Again we are so lacking in true journalists. It seems like Ed and Keith, two sportscasters, can teach the news guys a thing or two about interviewing experts.

[mnhtnbb]

10. My psychiatrist hubby was Berry planned during Vietnam. He signed up

with the Air Force and was assigned to McClellan AFB in Sacramento. He heard the constant
barrage of horror stories of war; was on the front lines of determination to recognize
the diagnosis of PTSD.

I didn't meet hubby until 1984. He reminded me after Hasan went off that the Air Force
had told him he might be shipped to Vietnam and his response was to tell his superiors
that they'd never find him in Canada. Hubby would have definitely gone to Canada
before he would have allowed himself to be shipped to Vietnam.

After getting out of the service, hubby returned to finish his residency in psychiatry
at UCLA. He went on faculty with them and was assigned to the VA in Sepulveda. He's spent
years listening to soldiers who have been eaten up by the horrors of what they've seen and done.

Our involvement in Iraq is only just beginning to come back to bite us. The military powers
that be are going to do anything they can to lay the blame for the actions of Hasan anywhere
but where it belongs: squarely in the lap of the Bush Administration.

[deaniac21]

37. Reagan shares the blame too.

[Autumn]

12. He is not a terrorist, he is a fucking murder,

give him a trial and give him what he deserves. What are they going to do? Fucking investigate every person in the military to make sure there are no more terrorists?

Stupid.

[spanone]

14. i heard that guy. who was he and what does he know that the military hasn't determined?

[Are_grits_groceries]

19. Got me?

I sat with my mouth open when he said that.

BTW as far as Hasan leaving the military, I heard some ex-Generals saying that since the Army had paid for his schooling, he had a committment. They seemed to be saying that he was just trying to shirk his duty for no reason, and he should not have been given any slack.

I think they are stupid , and that if somebody has a problem, it damn well better be looked into. Keeping somebody in to serve when thay are having major problems is beyond ignorant. I realize people may try to get out of deployment to a war zone when they are okay. However, 13 lives may have been lost because nobody took his problems seriously enough.

I heard more than one person use the reasoning that the Army did nothing wrong by deploying him because he had to pay his country back.

[NeedleCast]

27. As someone who served five years, there are cases of this happening

but they are SO few and SO rare in my experience. I understand that for some of the "soft-skill" MOS (those that likely wont see combat but tend to be more tech heavy) there is a fairly substantial investment in terms of hours of training and actual dollars. I just can't imagine anyone thinking that they're going to join the military, get a medical degree out of it, then quit, because the realistic chance of that happening as planned is almost nil.

Consider though, what the price of one soldier's medical schooling is compared to the service of those 13 killed and the wounded who will no longer be able to serve.

[EFerrari]

45. He offered to compensate the Army for his training.

This incident should never have happened and in so many ways. So, so sad.

[riderinthestorm]

46. How do we know he offered to compensate the Army?

His aunt? Who would be desperate to protect him?

We have no way of assuming any of his aunt's suppositions are true. Was he harassed? We don't know. Are there official grievances? Or was Hassan angry because he was a shitty performer and got bad performance evaluations that are unrelated to his religion? Did he spin his bad performance evaluations as "discrimination and harassment"?

Until there is some kind of outside verification that he wanted out - AND TOOK ACTION, we don't know that either.

I find it incredible that DU is taking the word of one aunt vs. well, everything else (the testimony of his peers, actual documentation, his actual performance, written screeds online etc.). It strains incredulity. I know DUers are kind but this is bullshit to re-write this guy's history because we want to be PC an anti-military. That doesn't serve any of us very well. It behooves us to discover the truth without trying to mask anything at this point.

[EFerrari]

47. That's right. His aunt might be al Qaida, too.

[spanone]

31. it really pisses me off. these pundits that talk in certitudes when the truth is unknown.

and especially when they go unchallenged

[mmonk]

16. People say things everyday now with nothing to back it up.

[Malikshah]

17. Not having seen this, is this the same ex-JAG who got pwned by the POW recently?

Inquiring minds want to know. If not-- looks like JAG has been watching too much JAG (CBS)

[Are_grits_groceries]

22. I don't think so.

I am not sure though. The JAG who got pwned was on CNN. I think they keep their experts on a leash.

[renegade000]

20. according to the NYTimes, Hasan was commissioned in 1997

Shortly after college (graduated from Virginia Tech in 1995).
How the heck does that make him the first "radical Islamic terrorist" to "get through" since 9/11?

[tandot]

23. The right-wingers and Obama-haters are just itching for an act of terror

to happen under Obama's watch. This way they can say that Obama didn't protect us and failed in fighting the WOT. They'll try to get the Media to promulgate the "Hasan was a terrorist" and "first attack since 9/11" line so they can use it against Obama and Democrats to get back in power next election.

Right-wingers and Obama-haters will do anything to politicize a tragedy.

[Barack_America]

24. Hasan wasn't "asleep".

The Army was.

Hasan made his views on the wars and his desire not to fight in them well known.

[Karenina]

38. The Army is 100% responsible.

Anyone who enlists in the military becomes Pentagon property. A piece of fungible equipment. Maintenance of equipment is the military's responsibility, one that they regularly ignore at the top.
The Army is 100% responsible for the result of this equipment failure.

[HillbillyBob]

25. Ok I ll drop my personal take

I think he was not cut out for the front, after counseling messed up soldiers he cracked up went and got guns, shouldn't someone like another higher ranking counselor or dr been talking to him?

[Dreamer Tatum]

29. I used to think he was a terrorist, but now I think

he's just a confused, murdering asshole.

Just because it looks like you reached out to al Qaeda doesn't mean (a) you got through, or (b) they wanted anything to do with him. I think the guy just didn't want to go to the front, has serious mental issues, and lashed out in the worst possible way.

I think the worst you could say is that perhaps at some point he was a wannabe.

So I've changed my mind: not a terrorist. Just a mass murderer.

[sabrina 1]

30. The rightwing so badly wants there to be a

terror attack on US soil during Obama's administration. From the first day, before we even knew how many were killed, as soon as they heard 'Muslim sounding name' on tv, they were off and running with the 'news'. Freepers were practically orgasmic over it. They have a new conspirace theory also, which they talked about that day, Obama 'knew' something and there is probably a 'connection' between them.

I don't know how this country can ever get back to real news where people cannot just go on TV and spout off like that without anyone even trying to verify what they are saying.

I wonder what his name is on Free Republic?

[glitch]

32. +1 -- he's a spundit all right. nt

[spanone]

35. barry mccaffrey was on msnbc callint it a jihad, a plot

[Garbo 2004]

36. Has MSNBC ever disclosed/acknowledged his participation in Pentagon propaganda program along with

the other "military analyst" shills for the Bush administration? They should have to state that disclaimer every time they use one of those guys.

[chill_wind]

Thank you! They continue this program unabated

from what I can see. No one has ever been held accountable, since all the "investigation" so far (IG investigation at end of Bush's term) has been a FARCE.

War mongering fekkers.

[chill_wind]

39. delete- dupe

[newspeak]

43. well, maybe somebody better tell the freepers

that Hassan was serving before, during and after 9/11. So, tell me how this is Obama's fault. Generalissimo *'s intel appear not to have caught him. And his alleged contact with an imam was while * was still in office (if the story is true).

So, does anybody remember how many died in the anthrax attack? Cause the MSM keeps saying this is the biggest attack since 9/11. Just wanted to know how many got sick and how many died during that attack.

[Ikonoklast]

34. And his proof is....?

What a pantsload.

[Thickasabrick]

40. K&R - Good analysis Grits nt

[LynnTheDem]

44. "sent in"??? The man is 100% American.

Just as Tim McVeigh was.