A sad comment on our coming generation

[nadinbrzezinski]

So I went to the market this morning REALLY EARLY to find parking. And I got a couple quesadillas for breakfast. I am sitting at this table they have set for people to have food, all on my lonesome when this woman and her child, could not be over nine, walk over. She asks if it is ok if she can join me. Sure no problem. Now here is the kicker... the kid would not seat on his own, and only sat on mom. Care to guess why? Fear of strangers. This forty something woman wearing a hat, with a bag on her side with viddles scared him.

Now I am not going to be too critical of the fear, but what happens when that kid grows up? Because of our present paranoia, never mind that all crime against kids is at an all time low, will that kid grow up to be a mal-adjusted adult that will NOT be able to relate to others? Granted, I am sure this is an extreme example and lord knows my mom told us not to talk to strangers... but I could not get this out of my mind as I got the rest of my vegies and fruits. What the hell are we doing to our kids? And no this is not just this mother. This fear is ever present in our society and has helped to dissolve that sense of community.

On the plus side i found an American made casserole dish (in the oven right as I speak) and a cup to start replacing the crappy ones I have whose glazing is going away. Will take a while to replace them as well, these are made by hand in the US, locally and therefore more expensive. And I am ok with that. Oh and a nice lady told me how to cook butternut squash... so got one and will try that this week. We even exchanged how to use the inevitable plastic bags we all get as hard as we try not to. I simply grab a bunch and take them to market and reuse them until they need to be recycled,

:-)

[Jane Austin]

1. Can you tell us what the lady said

about cooking butternut squash?

Thanks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Steam it, after cleaning it

and just add a little butter to it and fresh herbs for flavor, if you care a little salt. Sounds lovely and chiefly easy.

You can also roast it in the oven after cleaning it with just a little oil salt and pepper 400 degrees for about 20 minutes or until soft. Again if you want to add rosemary for flavor, go for it.

[Warpy]

9. That's how I cook it

and I never could understand the attraction of cooking it to mush and putting a bunch of unnecessary spices into it.

I steam it until it's barely done, toss it with butter and snipped parsley and serve it. It's really a lovely veggie, very colorful, mild and sweet flavor.

Dinner guests have been horribly shocked to find out it's just squash, the same thing their mothers ruined every Thanksgiving.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Well I did not know how to cook it

so I have never bought it before. Given all these vegies are organic and locally grown they also have a lot more flavor... they are fantastic. So I am looking forwards to it.

[Tesha]

56. Butternut squash roasts pretty nicely too. (NT)

[Jane Austin]

50. Thanks. Do you cook it whole

or cut into chunks?

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. I guess I will cut it into chunks

never tried it before, But it makes sense, as it will let it cook faster and more evenly.

[Desertrose]

60. roasted butternut & apple soup

This is so easy!! Peel, cut in small chunks (2" or so) a butternut squash, cut up an apple -coat with olive oil - I use a baggie, then roast (pumpkin works too!)til fork tender. Season with a bit of sage (or any herb you like really).

Puree the squash/apple in small batches in the blender, adding veggie stock (I use boullion cubes to make a quick veggie stock) and rewarm in saucepan stirring in remainder of stock. I top mine with crushed hazelnuts & serve. Great to dip chunks of bread into,too.

Really really yummy!! :)

[Jane Austin]

62. Thanks so much.

I love the stuff, but have never made it myself.

Now I will.

Thanks again.

Jane Austin

[rockymountaindem]

2. A piece of advice:

Do NOT try to put ANY piece of that squash in your garbage disposal, if you have one. Trust me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Thanks these days I mostly do not put that in the garbage unit, I have

cut down on what goes down to almost only what is left in the sink when I wash the dishes... no butternut, thanks

[Brickbat]

3. The big rise of stranger-danger in the 80s corrupted a generation of parents.

"The Gift of Fear" and "Last Child in the Woods" are two great books to read about this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. And what I saw today was extreme

there is a book just titled Fear that also goes into that and how we have created a generation of scarry Muricans. I mean our media is great at doing that.

[saracat]

7. Coming generation? The current ones are already okay with

pharmacists refusing to distribute BC, intermingling of Church and state and jeopardizing a women's right to choose as well as judging people solely om the amount of money they earn as well as a sense of entitlement for themselves that they deserve luxuries and promotions without working for them.! ( And of course this is not ALL but very many,it seems express, these viewpoints.There are some wonderful young folks as well.)Fear of strangers is hardly the worst thing to expect from a coming generation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Actually fear of strangers is the end of community

so that is the source of a society that has failed.

[anonymous171]

11. Exactly. No community means no social contract,

And no social contract means no Liberalism. That's the problem with some of the social liberals, imo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. And why kids are willing to accept a lot of the crap

that the conservatives push. They do it out of fear.

[saracat]

27. This is also very true. And unfortunately, the internet age makes it even worse.

I think that is way so many generic broad brush statements are even posted on DU, such as "everyone" can afford $500! If you have never met anyone in RL who cannot afford $500, that might be true in your world and cause you to believe it is the norm. Only by exposure to real people and real situations outside of one's own confines can breed empathy with circumstances that may not be shared.

[saracat]

26. Very good point but combined with the fear is an awful lot of selfishness built into the self

protective mode. I remember not too long ago young Democrats asking senior citizens to give up their seats at a Howard Dean DNC event because they said the younger Dems were more "important", seriously.

But you are very correct about the end of community.And that has been happening gradually for a long time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. There used to be a time when people surrendered their seats

to the elderly and the disabled.

That is the ME culture speaking

[saracat]

31. I also remember the DNC coming to my state and stipulating that the

average young campaign worker was to be paid $5,000 a month plus health insurance and then they asked for volunteers to house and feed them. We have a "Clean Elections" system in our state and no local,campaign could afford to pay that. When the young DNC person leading the campaign training was told this they countered that $5000 a month was "barely" enough to live on.I also know a young woman who refused to work for the Obama Admin because she refused, in todays economy, to take any job paying less than $80, 000 a year! And she is in her late twenties with relatively little experience.She says she deserves "more". My breath was taken away by her attitude, and then others of the young Dems chimed in as well.They claimed they should not be "expected" to work for less and wouldn't consider it. I hope these kids are exceptional because they weren't joking and to my knowledge none of them are yet working. Our Governor makes less than that! Both my husband and I are unemployed and have advanced and college degrees and in this economy, we would be thrilled to work for half that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. That is a general attitude

of self entitlement that is just astounding. NO, not party related, just a general attitude.

And yes, I would be glad to work for half that... And due to our circumstances don't need medical either. so even less would work.

[lukasahero]

40. Isn't the source of the failure, the people who aren't to be trusted?

Being afraid of people who would seek to do a child harm is not the downfall of society. Seeking to do a child harm is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. and believing that every shadow will do this

never mind the statistics are way down, is surrendering to fear,

[JackDragna]

10. My sister's kids are terrified of everything.

They're not allowed outside, period, for fear of being "kidnapped." Every single bug or animal out in the open causes them to go into panic mode. They are the most insulated, maladjusted children I've ever seen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I am sorry because they will not grow into well adjusted adults

You'd think that after taking care of some kids who WERE kidnapped I'd be more for the fear factor.

Let me see in ten years of EMS I saw 2 kids who were kidnapped. One was part of a sex trade... long story... tragic story. The other was political... that ended fast.

So to me the stats are... chances are your kids will grow up to adulthood without being victims... well except of class mates, but that gets me into the other hobby of the schools, bullying

[Maureen54]

14. the child

The child may have had Autism,PDD or other sensory issues.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Possible, but I have seen that with very normal kids as well who

are raised to fear strangers, period... not kids with a whole slew of syndromes in the autism spectrum.

[Greyhound]

16. Yes, the campaign to spread irrational fear of everything has been quite successful.

Flying in the face of all the facts, the sheeple are terrified of just about everything, especially (from my perspective) parents.
:kick: & R

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. And this is part of the process that has absolutely

destroyed community. Which is part of the mission if you want to change the nature of the society. It has a name... anomie... and we see it more and more.

[Greyhound]

32. But we're crazy conspiracy loons...

:tinfoilhat:

After all, it can't happen here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Pass the tinfoil

:hi:

[Greyhound]

36. Here ya go...

one thing though, the new stuff is so thin you have to use double layers to get any protection. Just FYI.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Gotcha

[Avalux]

19. I would be cautious in making a blanket statement about the coming generation.

While it's true there are kids out there as you describe, mine and their friends aren't like that; in fact, I'm proud of both my daughters and how they're maturing.

I have hope for them; have to because my kids are part of it. It will be some who salvage the rest.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Well the blanket statement has to be qualified of course

and I am sure this kid (for many possible reasons) is an extreme case. But in general we are seeing far less of a sense of community... and that worries me. It is not just the kids, it is architecture (designed to discourage social interaction) as well as many other factors.

I worry what the last 30 or so years have done to the US... insofar as a sense of community is concerned and that ahem rugged individualism that has taken root all across the society.

My observations of course, and I am sure it will never be as bad as any of us fear, nor as good as we all hope...

:-)

And I am glad your daughters are growing up to be strong individuals who know how to work within a society, they are indeed the hope for the future.

[lunatica]

21. I was walking to work on the UC Berkeley campus

I'm 61 years old and look very matronly with graying hair. I remind people of their mother or grandmother, depending on what age they are. Strangers will single me out to ask me for directions in stores, on the streets and on campus. Bus drivers will lower the bus to let me on and off the bus so I don't have to take such a large step. Students hold doors for me when I'm close to one. Students will hesitate getting off of elevators so I can go first. I am the least threatening person you can picture. I've even had lost dogs come to me to help them.

Yet one time a child riding a bike stopped as he passed me and looked over his shoulder at me which made me stop too, thinking there was something wrong. I asked the child if he was OK and he answered that he was, but the child's mother rushed past me and grabbed her son and his bike and pushed him to get away from me shooting a nasty sneer at me. I was left truly puzzled, wondering how in the world the woman could have been thinking I was some threat to her kid. Someone who witnessed it as they walked towards me caught my eye and just shook her head and said, "That was weird",

Being 'the stranger' that others would fear is a very strange feeling.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Strange feeling indeed, but to me far more of a warning

these two kids, the one you described and the one I encountered, are canaries in a damn mine... and since you work at Berkeley you also know of Helicopter parents... which is MY generation doing that. I mean poor dears, they are off to College and my poor dear did NOT get that A he needed or wanted... and you know how it goes from there. So what happens when these students enter the work place? And what happens when kids who do not trust their shadows, (thanks mom and dad) have to grow up and also enter society as adults? Who will they trust? I mean we all have to trust somebody at some point in our lives.

[cali]

22. It's a total failure of basic thinking on your part to draw any conclusions

whatsoever from this incident. Completely ludicrous.

[TwixVoy]

23. If your attitude here is any indication

I can understand why.

Do you speak to people in such a hostile way in real life as you do on these forums at times? Kids are very sensitive to such things, and you may just be feeling bad subconciously now that you've noticed it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Well, well if saying by all means, take a seat

is aggressive and violent to you., well then guilty as charged.. and sorry, if suggesting that you are wrong about the imminent coming of a depression is to be aggressive to you I am sorry. But you are... all the CURRENT indicators are against the coming of the Second Great Depression, and lord knows if you were onto it getting a job this fast, as you did... would not have happened.

By the way, I am happy you did.

Ed for clarity.

PS I have known over the decades people like the woman you described in that post. And you know what? One had close to a billion dollars net worth... and she was an ass. So was the perfectly good lower class woman that was also an ass and treated my crew like servants. Money wasn't a factor...

[TwixVoy]

38. Take a look at employment numbers my friend

Go talk all about your wall street indicators.

All I know is I see more homeless people here than ever in the past 20 years. I trust what I SEE IN REAL LIFE more than what I see on wall street charts telling me all is fine.... from the very same people who told us all was fine when this started.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. I am not talking of Wall street indicators

sadly.

But GNP and yes, those unemployment indicators. While they are NOT FINE yet, they are LEADING when you get into the mess, and TRAILING on the way out of the mess. This is economics 101.

SLOWLY, painfully so, things are getting better.

And a DEPRESSION has an ACTUAL TECHNICAL DEFINITION involving silly shit like GNP... we got close to it, but did not get there.

And you may not remember this, but I did not tell you things were fine when this started and I did cite the same GNP indicators as well as other ECONOMIC things like money supply... as a sign things were getting bad.

Sorry if I refuse to join you in the sky is falling and we are all gonna die ... but I will say this... we got THIS CLOSE to an actual depression... and credit where credit is due... it was that Keinseian economics that came to the rescue AGAIN.

Has this been a bad recession? YOU BETCHA! But a depression? HARDLY...

And one indicator of this, unless you know somebody who hired you at the company you are doing IT right now, you were hired... where do you think that job came from?

Now if this happened because of Cronyism then that is a whole different story.

[Odin2005]

24. That kid sounds like me at that age.

Maybe he's autistic? :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Yeah that is possible

any of the whole slew of Autistic syndromes could do that. Hell, I wasn't that afraid of strangers, just a damn chatter box!

But as I pointed up thread I know kids who are NOT autistic who are afraid of strangers. Our lovely gift to our kids.

[Odin2005]

35. Ah, OK!

[lukasahero]

37. I think extrapolating the condition of an entire generation

based on the behavior of one kid is stretching it - excessively stretching it.

Good grief if you'd met me at that age, you'd be suggesting my generation would not be able to speak because I was so shy.

I've actually been terribly impressed with most of the young people I meet these days. Lots of them are well-behaved, well-spoken delightful young people who I look forward to helping to find their way in the world.

[anigbrowl]

39. Don't be silly. The OP sees all, knows all...this is critically important stuff

...as usual.

[lukasahero]

42. Oh. Sorry

I must have missed the memo. That happens to me a lot these days.

I don't really know the OP - I was commenting on the post, not the poster.

Then again, I don't know you either. ;)

[Ikonoklast]

43. My three little terrors would have mugged her.

She would be begging me to pry them off of her as they screamed "Let's go play on the swings, lady! Do you want some sand in your hair? Ha-ha! You look funny all wet!"

Then the story would be that the future generation is nothing but a bunch of dirty-faced little brats that won't keep to themselves.

[lukasahero]

46. LOL!

Now THAT is true! DU - never satisfied. :rofl:

[Number23]

54. You know it!

Then the story would be that the future generation is nothing but a bunch of dirty-faced little brats that won't keep to themselves.

:thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. No that kid is a canary in the mine

But that is ok...

[anigbrowl]

48. Everything is an indicator of much greater significance with you

Frankly I think threads like this should be in the lunge, since they have no significant content and are just mood posts.

[lukasahero]

57. I have 4 nephews

1's a spoiled brat with a mother and father who cater to his every whim and whine. 3 are well-behaved, nicely-mannered, completely functional kids. From my experience, the one is the exception, not the rule, as is your little story.

But that is ok...

[pipi_k]

49. I don't think it's the generation

It's the parents.

Had someone judged my generation based on the way I behaved as a child, he would have decided that the entire Baby Boomers generation would grow up to be timid little wallflowers who would allow others to walk all over them.

My mother instilled a lot of fear into us kids...particularly myself, the oldest...I got to be what I call the "experimental kid". The one new parents practice on before they chill out and let the rest of them be themselves.

I tried not to do the same with my own two kids. I might have succeeded, had it not been for the fact that a trusted family member totally betrayed that trust. Never mind "stranger danger"...when you can't even trust family members, that's sad.

So my son's two girls (5 and 8) are pretty well adjusted...enjoy people, are not afraid of strangers.

My daughter's son (5) is a basket case. He sits on his mom or dad's lap even when it's just family. He started out very shy and afraid, and they have succeeded in reinforcing his fears by allowing him to sit on their laps while all the other kids have fun. He is NOT doing well in Kindergarten this year because he's so afraid of other people.

His teacher and the school principal have both commented on this and my daughter, at least, is willing to admit they've made mistakes in bringing him up this way. I know my daughter still remembers what happened to her at the hands of a family member. About the only people she trusts are me and Mr Pip.

Anyway, I look around at the young children/grandchildren of friends and relatives and I don't see any distressing tendency toward fear. I think the present younger generation will be just fine. Really. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Of course a lot is parents and this is a damn extreme case

BUT... I don;t know about you but growing up we were allowed to go out (yes I read you were not)

We were warned about strangers, but we were allowed pretty good free rein. That was in another country but talking to people who grew up in this one similar experience. Hell early Sesame Street showing kids running wild have a warning on them, because gosh darn it they are no longer considered safe.

There is evidence that sociologists and other observers have seen that indeed our kids today (not mine mind you... as we don't have them, Navy intervened), that we have created, and that is you and me, and the media, and the whole construct, a very paranoid fearful society.

Crime against kids is at an all time low, but you still do not see kids playing fetch outside....

And that is just one example.

Of course kid's lives are extremely well planned... to the minute, but that is another story... and I am sure at some point tied to this.

[pipi_k]

55. Some reasons why kids aren't out running and playing in the streets

And probably one of the biggest factors, IMO...computers.

No computers in the 50s...60s....70s...and they weren't exactly a household item in the 80s.

Now it's pretty common for middle class kids to have a computer.

Cell phones. Why take the time to leave the comfort of one's bedroom sanctuary when one can text one's friends.

When I was a kid, if we wanted to hook up with friends, we actually had to meet up someplace or spend hours on our home phone...which wasn't really an option if mom wasn't working and was either on the phone herself or waiting for a phone call. We even had party lines for a while. Hard to socialize that way...


another reason that you mentioned..."playdates" and all the planning and arranging parents do for their kids.

I don't know if we can look at any particular generation and claim that it has more reason to be afraid than any other generation...just that the reasons for being afraid are different...

[lukasahero]

58. I see kids ~10 years old on the subway going back and forth to school

I don't know where you live, but I see kids out and about all the time. If they're not playing "fetch" (and we used to play "catch" - dogs played "fetch"), it probably has more to do with their computers and video games than their "fear".

However, I'd be interested in reading this 'evidence' you cite.

[KakistocracyHater]

59. too many fenced-in front yards aren't exactly encouraging kids to play

outside; I have a yard the kids play in, they love to gather beneath the wisteria. I also see quite a few kids riding their bikes & young teen boys skate boarding.

Socializing is different, I'm here with you, there's the xbox, where I can sign in & anyone who has friended me knows I'm using the xbox-even if I'm watching a dvd, also the title of the game I'm playing if that's what I'm doing. Headphones have a mic attached. Combined with all the other 21st Century ways of socializing & making friends....people are connected even if it looks like they are not. Now neighbor-to-neighbor takes more effort, for me at least.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

53. I doubt that a woman asking to sit with you was that overbearing.....

....on her kid about strangers. Asking to sit with a stranger while they are eating is asking quite a bit to me.

[Kitty Herder]

61. Shy children are not a new phenomenon.

I would have been the same way at that age. I was afraid of strangers because I was shy, not because I had been taught to fear "stranger danger."

[JCMach1]

65. Exactly... I could see my youngest (now 11) doing something similar

even today. Most likely she would just simply tell me she doesn't want to sit... Dunno why, she is just shy about some things and also a bit embarrassed.

And it certainly wouldn't be from the stranger danger thing. There is even less danger here where we live, so she has never been 'taught' it.

[bamacrat]

63. I think we will see alot of stunted kids due to the rise in homeschooling.

I know not all kids who are home schooled turn out to be socially retarded but so many are freaking weird. Could be due to the fact that most of their parents are uber religious and feel public schools teach nothing but socialist garbage and cant educate them like the bible can.

[Egnever]

64. You are a very strange person

way to categorize a whole generation based on one child.

Yes they are all afraid :scared: Except they aren't, and each succeeding generation seems to be more and more accepting of their fellow human beings, kinda blows a huge hole in your little theory.

I would say that fear is what caused segregation, I would say fear is what keeps gays from having equal rights. I would say fear is what makes old assholes like lieberman call the fort hood shootings a terrorist act.

Plenty of fear to go around and it isn't limited to any generation.