I WANT to be happy over a HCR Bill Passing, BUT deep in the pit of my stomach I have a sick feeling

[Blackhatjack]

As I try to take an objective view of what is likely to come of the merging of the two HCR bills coming out of the House and Senate, I cannot shake the feeling that the Health Insurance Lobby has 'gamed' the outcome --"heads we win, tales you(the taxpayers) lose."

Howard Dean is right about one thing --if there is no public option in the final bill coming out of conference, there is nothing left but a giveaway to the private health insurance companies.

And if the bill out of conference fails, the monopolistic private health insurance system we have will raise rates to cover the hundreds of millions of $$ they paid their lobbyists to kill it.

And if the bill is weakened, without a public option, there will be 36 million new customers forced to buy the products of the private healthcare insurers --likely without any real cap on raising premiums and fees on everyone.

Or in other words, unless Democrats realize that their very political lives depend upon them instituting real change in the final bill and jamming it through using reconciliation, we are worse off than if we never tried to effect real change.

I want to be happy, but there is too much money available to distribute to members of Congress who will willingly accept it and vote as they are told by the health insurance lobbyists who pull their strings.

The bottom line is that the only way to effect REAL CHANGE in Washington was and remains taking on campaign finance reform FIRST, and then everything else would have been much easier to change.

As it is those who are bought, remain bought, and the ones who pay the pipers(members of Congress) name the tune.....

[TheWraith]

1. Yeah, they win. That's why they're fighting it tooth and nail to stop it from passing...

Wait, what?

Maybe DU needs to start vetting it's conspiracy theories.

[mbperrin]

2. Single payer universal is the ONLY way to actually provide healthcare

to all Americans AND at a reasonable price.

This bill was doomed to be an industry giveaway to start, and that is why I oppose it.

And I don't believe that we can "start" here and improve it later. It's the wrong approach, like starting out going west from LA to get to New York with one tank of gas. You will drown in the ocean, and there will be no chance to improve it later. It was completely wrong from the start.

[TornadoTN]

14. You've got that right - precisely

The cheerleading festivals that will take place after this are going to be too much to stomach.

[truedelphi]

25. And making it all worse than I even thought possible -

The first decree Obama issued was that this had to be "Deficit neutral"

Great, thought I. Now these rat bastards inside the Big Insurers and Big Hospital Profit Gouging Industry, will have to explain how inflated the costs are.

Naively I thought that part of the past summer would be spent having a discussion about what the price charged vs. costs actually mean. But for some reason, "Cost containment" became a phrase that examined only how much We the Consumers are paying (And therefore the government's subsidized share as well,) or the extent of our use of a product or porcedure, rather than any discussion about the vastly over-inflated costs that have been charged to us.

What is the price of a mammogram versus the actual cost... What is the price of talking to a doctor in an ER for ten or fifteen minutes versus the cost of doing so?

After all, once the machinery has been bought, or the person has been hired, aren't they going to be just sitting there unless used? A long time ago, when I was pregnant, (Circa mid-1970's) the fetal heart montitors were just coming out, and the way my OB/GYN guy explained it, I would be hooked up to one, not because the healthy pregnancy they had determined I was having needed it, but because if I and every mother in delivery had the fetal heart monitor attached, we could all pay a small share of the cost, rather than charging a fortune to the unfortunate couples who needed this for help in their babies' delivery.

But we clearly do not operate that way any more. Every one is forced to pay exorbitant costs for everything all the time. And that situation is not even questioned.

We need to nationalize the health care system. And make it be for us and not for the Fat Cats at the top. This iss not what is happening, and because of that I am no longer very hopeful about the directiont aht our nation is taking. We have lsot ourselves as a nation, as the lobbyists and industry head honchos determine all, and even changing the figure head's party denomination does not seem to have meant so much.

The middle class is in its demise and long live the Ruling Industrialists!

[LynneSin]

3. Have you ever thought that HCR is an ongoing process

There is so much good happening if this bill passes. First and foremost just the fact that we can negotiate with the Pharma industries on drug cost AND fix that stupid donut hole that Bush created with his medicare bill - that is a huge step forward.

Get this - there is absolutely, positively no form of Health Care Reform that will please 100% of the posters here at DU.

So my question to you is this - for the good that does come out IMMEDIATELY with healthcare reform, should we just shelve the whole damn thing until you're happy??

:grr:

[RufusTFirefly]

9. So you're cool with the fact that a handful of health care execs ...

... have more influence on policy than tens of millions of Americans.

If so, OK then.

After all, this isn't about one large group of Americans reaching a compromise with another large group. It's about Congress' capitulating to a few large corporations.

Personally -- and ironically -- it makes me ill.

Enjoy.

[LynneSin]

16. So you'd rather just stay with the status quo

Fuck all those people who have nothing now. I mean they'll just die anyways.

:eyes:

[RufusTFirefly]

18. Ah. So it'll be MY fault, not the fault of greedy health execs

Great.

This fiasco of a bill is going to a gift to the Republican Party and a blow that America may never recover from.

Mark my words.

[LynneSin]

19. Oh pul-lease

You act like this is the last time ever that our country will ever deal with healthcare. Save the dramatics for someone else. This is not the perfect plan but there is alot of good in it too. I think this is the first great step in the right direction but hopefully in a few years we can work on fixing a few more things.

I'm smart enough to know that this bill ain't perfect. But how is forcing pharmaceutical companies to negotiate for their medicare prescription drugs a boon to their business? And how will forcing health insurance companies to stop dropping/denial of coverage any benefit to them? That's part of the bill too - and that starts immediately!

But you're probably one of those folks that no matter what was in that bill you'd find a reason to gripe. What I find is my nephew immediately getting coverage again under his parents plan since he is 19, not in college and trying to figure out his life while making minimum wage. There is alot of good in this plan that will do a world of good when it comes to coverage.

[OHdem10]

4. Perfect description of how I feel also

[msongs]

5. congress has fabulous healthcare. YOU pay for it. be grateful congress allows you anything. nt

[twiceshy]

7. I have same said sick feeling........

Because I know I will end up paying much more for the same or less coverage that I have today. Well at least I'll have the satisfaction of paying for a bunch of people who either can't be bothered to get insurance, are too young to care, indigent, or illegal aliens (sorry "undocumented workers").

Thanks for nothing.

[havocmom]

8. We pay for part of it, they pay for part, like all other federal employees

[Bluenorthwest]

10. And what percentage of their income do they pay?

That is the actual question to ask. They should be paying the percentage that others are going to have to pay by their edict one would think. But one would be very wrong.

[havocmom]

17. The part anyone with a large paycheck is gonna hit softer than worker with worker bee wages

Your point is sorta pointless.

We have a federal worker plan. We are lucky. It's a pretty good plan, but not much different, save for no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, from most other group plans. We pay a chunk and that chunk is more of our gross than of a congressman's gross, cuz we make less.

The fact that we have a decent, and barely affordable, plan does not stop us from lobbying for universal, single payer. We know the nation and all individuals will be better off with single payer.

We also know the money vacuums at the top of the class struggle are not gonna give up easily. The vampires will have their lifestyle. In my view, Congress is not of that class. They are just part of the work force for the money vampires.

[havocmom]

6. Yep

"The bottom line is that the only way to effect REAL CHANGE in Washington was and remains taking on campaign finance reform FIRST, and then everything else would have been much easier to change."

but I don't see the corporate employees we call Congress doing anything honestly constructive about campaign finance reform.

[chill_wind]

12. Can't be said enough times.

[Bonn1997]

11. I can't help wondering if taking on health care reform was a mistkae--basically, mission impossible.

If all it accomplishes is wasting a year of Congress's time, then what good did it do? And if it leads to the public voting against Democrats and electing worse Republicans, it will have been harmful.

[ecstatic]

15. I've wondered the same thing myself. I now understand why nothing has been

done for decades. It seems like EVERYONE is unhappy now. Why couldn't they have *quietly* lowered the Medicare eligibility age and raised the income limits on Medicaid, got rid of pre-existing condition discrimination and call it a day? As it stands, everyone is outraged. Young people don't want to sign up, people who want healthcare don't want to pay for it... It's just a big mess!

[blues90]

13. This is why I have said before instead of leaping in with big bill

That is touted to effect change. What should have been done is a small bill just focused on regulating the health ins corps and weed out the fraud in medicare.

The reason I suggest this is because if people really don't know our reps are bought and paid for by now then they are fools. Just doing what I suggested would have exposed them for what they are and who's side they truely are on.

It's the same with everything, look at the banks and bailouts and the low tax on corporations , how do you suppose that happened.

We were sold the same idea of trickle down with a different name.

[Blackhatjack]

20. Apply a little game theory here and it will help you understand what is going on...

Actions are either intentional or non-intentional.
Inaction is always intentional unless the actor is ignorant of the choices presented.

Decisions which must be made result in either action or inaction.

The basis for an independent decision is the natural weighing of competing objectives that will be either enhanced or impaired by the choice made.

A review of a decision made indicates the outcome of that weighing process, which can be defined as the underlying motive behind the decision made (and the resulting action or inaction.)

It is just my opinion, but the actions taken by members of Congress are affected by their concern for the health and welfare of all our citizens --however, their concern for maintaining their office and standing in Congress likely trumps all others and remains their prime objectives.

So when Blue Dog Democrats say they are concerned about government taking over healthcare and private health insurers not being able to compete as the basis for voting against the healthcare reform bill with a public option, it would appear they are saying the concerns of the private healthcare insurance industry are more important than the needs of 46 million uninsureds. Likewise, those Americans presently insured and able to pay for any high quality care must be protected as well.

So when we hear Repubs vote in unision NO on everything proposed, their motives become pretty clear.

And when we hear that the dominance of a private healthcare insurer must be maintained, those motives are clear as well.

To change the actions of an opponent, either by persuasion or direct force, we must change the opponent's prioritization of the objectives being promoted and protected.

IMHO this can only be accomplished by depriving Congress of $$ from special interests who would act in their own interests to the detriment of the majority of the citizenry.

How do we do this? CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM plain and simple.

Private healthcare insurers and Big Pharma become remarkably less powerful if they cannot direct huge sums of $$ to members of Congress, and the result will be that Congressmen will alter their own objectives in considering who's interests should be promoted. . . . leading us back to representational government.

[Silent3]

21. Don't tell anyone you have a sick feeling now.

You won't be able to get treatment for a pre-existing condition.

[Kitsune]

22. I'm with you 100%

I really wanted something good to come out of this.

Instead we're left worse off than we already are. At least now I have the option to cut off the leeches in the insurance mafia. After this bill passes, it'll be illegal to not pay protection money to these filthy scammers, and the so-called "public option," assuming even that survives, will be worse than useless.

[bvar22]

23. "a giveaway to the private health insurance companies."

I'm starting to believe that this was the plan from the "get-go".

All the rest has been Kabuki Theater to perpetuate the illusion that the Working Class still has a voice.

A quick review:

*The WARS/Occupations get fully funded......check.

*Military Spending is INCREASED.....check

*Wall Street get a TRILLION DOLLAR GIFT from the Working Class.......check

*The Health Insurance Industry (Wall Street's Incestuous 1st Cousin) gets their TRILLION DOLLAR GIFT.....almost done.

*America is so broke and in debt that Social Programs and Programs that benefit the Working Class are "drowned in the bathtub" for generations.


MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

The DLC New Team
Progressives Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

"I am a New Democrat"---Barack Obama
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254931&kaid=85&subid=900184

Watch Out!
It has always been a goal to give Social Security to Wall Street.
"Entitlement Reform" is NEXT on the DLC Hit List

[truedelphi]

26. Nodding head in agreement. n/t

[waiting for hope]

24. The smart thing would have been to give the

public something so wonderful that if it were threatened to be taken away, the masses would scream bloody murder. And that something would have been single payer. But we can't have that now, can we? Now we are going to be saddled with something that is going to piss of more people than it will please - which will make it easy for the next repuke president to dismantle - and where would we be? Right back at square one with the insurance companies holding all the cards - but that's what was intended in the first place.

[Raine]

27. It's rigged so they always win

I really feel hopeless. :-(

[Faryn Balyncd]

28. you nailed it.

k and r