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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 06:59 PM Original message |
A simple truth about Afghanistan. You can't win a guerrilla war on somebody else's turf |
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demigoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:02 PM Response to Original message |
1. amen, yes, yes, right on |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:06 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Oh they know it, but hey, it isn't their asses on the line, |
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rrneck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:09 PM Response to Original message |
3. True that. |
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David Zephyr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:09 PM Response to Original message |
4. Yes. So, why are we doing it? Look at Obama's advisers and there's your answer. |
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tekisui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:10 PM Response to Original message |
5. knr!~ |
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harlfxstc (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:15 PM Response to Original message |
6. Uh, unlike our revolutionary war, our troops do not wear red and march in formation through woods. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:21 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. Show us a conflict being won by the invaders with a supply line half way around the world.. |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:51 PM Response to Reply #8 |
28. Here are a few. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 06:44 AM Response to Reply #28 |
35. Thank you for falling into my trap.. |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 09:01 AM Response to Reply #35 |
40. What trap. You concentrated on the Boer War. What about the others? |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 09:40 AM Response to Reply #40 |
42. Like I said, take a look at the tactics used to win such wars.. |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:38 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. Keep going. You have many conflicts to go thru yet. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:20 PM Response to Reply #43 |
53. All we are saying is give war a chance.. |
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rockymountaindem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 02:03 AM Response to Reply #40 |
75. There was also the fact that the Moro uprising in the Philippines was extremely bloody |
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rhett o rick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:10 PM Response to Reply #35 |
50. Forgive me, but I can not grasp your point. War is hell. There is no good war or good way to wage |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:22 PM Response to Reply #50 |
54. So then you should justify *this* war.. |
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rhett o rick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:55 PM Response to Reply #54 |
58. I see no justification. War only benefits the military/industrial/media complex. |
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Edweird (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:05 PM Response to Reply #28 |
59. Afghanistan has been invaded 3 times before us. Why isn't it one of your examples? |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:24 PM Response to Reply #6 |
10. Really? Gee, you just made my point for me, Thanks |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 09:02 AM Response to Reply #10 |
41. The American Revolution succeded because of French intervention. |
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Quantess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:25 PM Response to Reply #6 |
11. Welcome to DU! |
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harlfxstc (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 10:44 PM Response to Reply #11 |
21. Too old. to enlist at 60, however two of my sons are serving right now. |
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Quantess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:56 PM Response to Reply #21 |
29. I guess that means I can't call you a chickenhawk, then. |
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demigoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:25 PM Response to Reply #6 |
12. some times the guerillas are simply citizens who do not want their government |
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harlfxstc (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 10:45 PM Response to Reply #12 |
22. lol, and most times not. NT |
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StarfarerBill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:19 PM Response to Reply #6 |
25. Yes, insurgencies are most often won by the guerrillas themselves. |
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DailyGrind51 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:56 AM Response to Reply #6 |
38. Cuba, Nicaragua, Vietnam, Afghanistan (v. Soviets), |
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salguine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:55 AM Response to Reply #6 |
45. MadHound couldn't be more right. The Japanese learned the same lesson |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:56 AM Response to Reply #6 |
46. Our troops didn't wear red and march in formation through the woods then, either. nt |
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KakistocracyHater (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:44 PM Response to Reply #46 |
61. yeah but does anyone know of the folklore of the being wearing dollar pants |
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NoPasaran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:16 PM Response to Original message |
7. That explains why European settlers were never able to push much beyond the Mississippi |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:23 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. Our troops are homesteading and living off the land in Afghanistan? |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:26 PM Response to Reply #7 |
13. You did miss the point I made about laying waste to the land |
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demigoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:28 PM Response to Reply #7 |
14. The indians were outnumbered, out gunned, slaughtered and killed with disease |
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Prometheuspan (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:36 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. yep |
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pscot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:37 PM Response to Reply #7 |
16. No. That explains why |
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StarfarerBill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:29 PM Response to Reply #7 |
27. Great idea! Let's eliminate large numbers of Afghans with massacres, disease, and roundups; |
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Mythbuster (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 08:21 PM Response to Original message |
17. Pull out before you go too far!! |
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JonQ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 09:11 PM Response to Original message |
18. Yes you can |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:29 PM Response to Reply #18 |
26. Show us a conflict being won by the invaders with a supply line half way around the world.. |
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Aragorn (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 12:15 AM Response to Reply #26 |
33. Alexander ("the Great") |
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AllentownJake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 08:01 AM Response to Reply #33 |
39. Carthage was burned |
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cowcommander (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:44 AM Response to Reply #33 |
44. Alexander also lost the support of his own men when they went too far to India |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:26 AM Response to Reply #26 |
49. The Soviets were fighting a force supported by the US. |
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JonQ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:34 PM Response to Reply #26 |
56. The US |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 02:36 AM Response to Reply #56 |
76. The guerrilla wars we fought against the Japanese were on isolated Pacific islands |
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JonQ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 11:48 AM Response to Reply #76 |
79. So the OP was wrong then, according to you |
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rhett o rick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 09:37 PM Response to Original message |
19. Why do you think winning the war is tho objective? Fighting a prolonged war is the objective of |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:07 PM Response to Reply #19 |
23. Oh I know that, you know that, even Obama's supporters know that. |
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rhett o rick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 12:24 AM Response to Reply #23 |
34. If we cant stem the influence of CorpAmerica on Congress we can give up hope for ending wars, |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:04 AM Response to Reply #34 |
47. I'm with you there. |
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maryf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:18 PM Response to Reply #34 |
64. yep |
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rhett o rick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:06 PM Response to Reply #64 |
81. The only way to change that is to eliminate the influence of lobbyists. nt |
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arcadian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 09:43 PM Response to Original message |
20. Add this to the fact that they've found out how to bring down UAVs |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:09 AM Response to Reply #20 |
48. Saddam was bringing down UAVs |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:11 PM Response to Original message |
24. K&R |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:58 PM Response to Original message |
30. Without support from a major power, most guerrilla movements fail. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 12:00 AM Response to Reply #30 |
31. True, but only to a certain extent |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 12:07 AM Response to Reply #31 |
32. True. But if the guerrilla movement itself is brutal, it can lose domestic support |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:46 AM Response to Original message |
36. That is blasphemy. |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:15 PM Response to Reply #36 |
51. America has never been "defeated." We aren't "losing," we are just not winning |
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tekisui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:19 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. I like your avatar. |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:32 PM Response to Reply #51 |
63. Yes, of course... |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:24 PM Response to Reply #36 |
55. "we lost VietNam in the field, despite empirical evidence" |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:28 PM Response to Reply #55 |
62. It was all done when we decided to leave. |
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grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:42 PM Response to Reply #62 |
66. Complete total bullshit |
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cliffordu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:57 PM Response to Reply #62 |
68. You are so completely full of crap, I don't know how you can stand your own smell. |
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cliffordu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:54 PM Response to Reply #36 |
67. Pulling imperial- uh, empirical evidence out of your butt, again, eh? |
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bertman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 03:16 AM Response to Reply #67 |
77. Oh, cliffordru, as much as I love your pithy one-line zingers, I have to call you on this rant. |
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cliffordu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 12:46 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. Here ya go: |
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bertman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 02:02 PM Response to Reply #80 |
85. Yeah, I guess my flawed assumptions about Vietnam have nothing to do with the fact |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 02:09 PM Response to Reply #85 |
86. +1 nt |
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Vidar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:52 AM Response to Original message |
37. Excellent argument. Recommended. |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:39 PM Response to Original message |
57. I've spent years trying to get righties to explain what victory in the war on terra looked like |
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Edweird (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:19 PM Response to Original message |
60. A blanket statement about all guerrilla war is automatically wrong. |
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tabasco (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:29 PM Response to Original message |
65. You are aware the U.S. fought a guerilla war against the Native Americans? |
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cherokeeprogressive (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:25 AM Response to Reply #65 |
70. HAHAHAHA Only because we let you THINK so. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:30 AM Response to Reply #65 |
72. Yes, and we essentially laid waste to the Indians, |
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tabasco (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 11:15 AM Response to Reply #72 |
78. I was responding to the statement that the U.S. had never won a guerilla war. |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 03:42 PM Response to Reply #78 |
87. As a former military officer, you might want to take a read of "The History of the Peloponnesian War |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:08 PM Response to Reply #65 |
82. Yes, but genocide is politically incorrect these days. |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:01 AM Response to Original message |
69. All this idiotic talk about "winning" |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:35 AM Response to Reply #69 |
73. I've asked the same question many times, |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:48 AM Response to Reply #73 |
74. The question wasn't directed at you, of course, but at all these |
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cherokeeprogressive (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:26 AM Response to Original message |
71. I've been trying to make this same argument for months. To no avail. n/t |
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ecstatic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:13 PM Response to Original message |
83. I don't think any kind of war is ever justifiable, but I'm curious about where you get your info |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 01:17 PM Response to Original message |
84. 100% True! |
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