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Modest or Immodest Proposal? Anti-War Left and Anti-War Right unite to force US out of Afghanistan

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-04-09 01:48 PM
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Modest or Immodest Proposal? Anti-War Left and Anti-War Right unite to force US out of Afghanistan
Certain hypocrites among the Republicans who had no problem following Bush-Cheney into their bogus war in Iraq are suddenly having doubts about following their President Marxist Kenyatta into an escalation of war in Afghanistan (and Reihan Salam notes, from a somewhat different perspective, at the Daily Beast):



http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-12-04/the-new-anti-war-right/

... Rep. Jason Chaffetz, a Utah Republican known for his independent streak, has made a conservative case for withdrawal. And my guess is that by the 2010 congressional elections, dozens of Republican candidates will be doing the same across the country.

... among Democrats, and particularly left-of-center Democrats, there is a pervasive sense that the Obama administration has proved too cautious and centrist on domestic issues. That means there is less willingness to give the president the benefit of the doubt on waging an expensive counterinsurgency, particularly as many of the left’s domestic priorities could well be sacrificed on the altar of deficit reduction.

... Among grassroots conservatives, there is a growing sense that the U.S. military is too hamstrung by concern about civilian casualties and political correctness to wage an effective military campaign under Obama, which implies that there is little point in offering him political support.

In a statement on his House Web site, Chaffetz makes the point explicitly. Deriding the idea of a counterinsurgency strategy, he writes, “our military is not a defensive force for rough neighborhoods around the world.” Rather than fight to protect Afghan civilians, Chaffetz argues that U.S. forces should focus exclusively on al Qaeda’s threat to the homeland by targeting and killing its members. In essence, Chaffetz is recognizing the contradiction at the heart of what had been bipartisan support for the U.S. mission in Afghanistan: Americans have supported the war effort insofar as it is designed to keep Afghanistan from becoming a safe haven for al Qaeda. But the consensus among foreign-policy experts is that the safe-haven argument is weak: The tribal areas of Pakistan and Yemen and Somalia are far likelier candidates for a safe haven, and Islamist terrorists also are found in American and European cities....

Chaffetz’s argument resonates strongly with what Walter Russell Mead has referred to as America’s Jacksonian tradition. In a 2003 interview, Mead described the Jacksonians as being a bit like bees: “When somebody attacks the hive, you come swarming out of the hive and you sting them to death.” The goal isn’t to go abroad to build friendships across cultural divides or to heal the sick. Rather it is to ferociously punish anyone who dares attack the United States. Jacksonians thus have little regard for civilian casualties—they don’t believe in limited wars. By its very nature, a counterinsurgency campaign is a limited war, one that relies on winning over the civilian population through the careful use of military force combined with deft diplomacy. The idea is to use persuasion as much as possible and coercion as little as possible. So when Chaffetz writes that we’ve tied the hands of our military, he means that vanquishing enemies, not nation-building, should be our core goal.

Remember that the bitterest opponents of the Clinton-era U.S. interventions in Kosovo and Haiti were conservatives like Tom DeLay, who condemned the Clinton administration for treating “foreign policy as social work,” in Michael Mandelbaum’s evocative phrase. The post-9/11 moment represented a departure from this conservative suspicion of nation-building, as Jacksonian sentiments were yoked to the ambitious project of building democracies in the Muslim world. But now that Obama, a man most conservatives dislike and distrust, is the steward of that effort, those conservative instincts are making a comeback. Jason Chaffetz represents the beginning of a wave—and it’s not obvious that Obama can do anything to stop it.


This wasn't tried under Clinton with respect to Kosovo, partly because many on the left circled round the Pres to help defend against the phony Puritans trying to dislodge him. Of course, it's difficult to judge whether or not the attacks on Obama will have a similar effect. I, personally, reflexively gag at the idea of joining forces with a group of war-mongers whose motives to oppose this war are likely guided by deep-seated racism and an irrational fear of socialism (which is the last thing Obama is apparently interested in).

However, I ask myself the question: is the path Obama has proposed really in the best interests of peace, or is it just the most politically expedient? Are we "surging" because this is believed to be the best path for Afghanistan, the US and the world, or because it's believed to be the best one for Obama and Democratic prospects over the next four years? What if the latter is the case?

Is it more moral to rally round the party or around the cause?
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-04-09 01:53 PM
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1. "Are we "surging" because this is believed to be the best path for Afghanistan..."
Surging *IF* you will withdrawal irregardless of the conditions on the ground in 18 months doesn't imply the fate of Afghanistan is of concern at all. Is there any other way to read this?
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-04-09 01:54 PM
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2. It is more moral to rally round the cause. The party is sacrificing so many causes it does not
stand for anything. We have to take our party back.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-04-09 02:00 PM
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3. The attempt to build free democracies in the Muslim world is a failure...
It should be left to the people to determine what form their government takes, not imposed on them by well meaning Jacksonians.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-04-09 02:06 PM
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5. I read Salam's use of Jacksonian to refer to those who don't give a shit about anyone but the US.
I don't know where he gets this from, not knowing enough about Jackson. But he seems to think the default position of conservatives is to not give a shit about Afghanistan (or Iraq, presumably) but to punish anyone who attacks the US or harbors or encouragers those who attack US interests (or whatever the right wing thinks those interests are). The military, on this view, should not engage in nation-building but just in enemy-thwacking.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-04-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Jackson was the President that expanded voting to all men..
not just those who owned property. He embodies a lot of the Ideals we Democrast hold true.

My view is that the pie in the sky belief that everybody wants American democracy was one of the great delusions of the right. I've been to a lot of countires and the people in most of those I've visited, including China, consider themselves free. This has forced me to ask the quesiton, is everybody body else deluded, or is it us who limit the definion of Freedom and Democracy to exclued other nations?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-04-09 02:05 PM
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4. My advice
Don't ever trust the pubbies. We either get rid of the MIC on our own or we don't.
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