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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 05:11 PM Original message |
Time to end ban on gay men giving blood? |
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harkadog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 05:24 PM Response to Original message |
1. Long past time |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 05:24 PM Response to Original message |
2. Yes, the ban illogical, all of the blood has to be tested anyways. nt |
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spiritual_gunfighter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 05:27 PM Original message |
I wasnt aware gay men couldnt give blood |
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TorchTheWitch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 02:45 PM Response to Original message |
128. Neither did I |
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PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 05:27 PM Response to Original message |
3. Absolutely. The American Red Cross has been trying to get the ban lifted. |
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petronius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 05:53 PM Response to Original message |
4. Yes. (nt) |
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Rhythm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 06:00 PM Response to Original message |
5. Way, way past due. n/t |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 06:46 PM Response to Original message |
6. The demographics of infection vary country to country. In the US, here is the data |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 07:08 PM Response to Reply #6 |
7. Gee, you could have just said "no" |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 09:49 PM Response to Reply #7 |
16. Gee, you could have read all the links I posted |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:04 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. So what is your answer, O Struggler, given all these "links" and stats? |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 01:45 AM Response to Reply #19 |
48. Facts first, analysis later n/t |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 08:39 PM Response to Reply #6 |
14. I could see having gay men who have had sex with a man outside a monogamous relationship |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 01:39 AM Response to Reply #14 |
47. Perhaps issues like this should be wrapped into a larger long-term fight for national health care, |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 09:31 PM Response to Reply #14 |
133. I advocated that view about six months ago |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:30 PM Response to Reply #6 |
75. So heterosexual women shouldn't donate blood either? |
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berni_mccoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 07:08 PM Response to Original message |
8. Absolutely. |
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Yes We Did (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 07:11 PM Response to Original message |
9. Absofreakinglutely. n/t |
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Chan790 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 07:19 PM Response to Original message |
10. Um, yes. |
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Tim01 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 07:26 PM Response to Original message |
11. The gay community has done a very good job of policing itself. |
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gleaner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 07:33 PM Response to Original message |
12. Yes, the ban should be lifted .... |
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Skittles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 08:17 PM Response to Original message |
13. I think it is long past time |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 08:50 PM Response to Original message |
15. HIV rates are still catastrophic in the gay community |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:09 PM Response to Reply #15 |
23. Could you cite all these dramatic statistics you mention? Even though I know you lecture on this |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:47 PM Response to Reply #23 |
38. If you check the statistics... |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:55 PM Response to Reply #38 |
41. 'The chances that a MSM is HIV+ is 1 in 4' *****BULLSHIT***** |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:57 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. Uh, no. Sadly the rate of prevalence is between 16% and 25% |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 12:01 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. The majority of those living with HIV were nonwhite (65.4%) |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 07:49 AM Response to Reply #43 |
57. Yes, but MSMs of color are the reason |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 12:02 AM Response to Reply #42 |
44. CDC: Blacks, gays at high risk for HIV infections |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 12:09 AM Response to Reply #44 |
45. And this should be something we are united on, but I just don't get your hostility |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 03:00 AM Response to Reply #45 |
53. because your Agenda is well known. |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 07:37 AM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Oh. My. God! I've been discovered!!!! My agenda is known!!! |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 12:15 PM Response to Reply #54 |
73. Your agenda has been clear for some time now. |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:40 PM Response to Reply #54 |
78. Yes, your agenda is well known. |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:29 PM Response to Reply #54 |
96. Your agenda has been transparent for some time. |
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Jamastiene (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 07:39 AM Response to Reply #45 |
55. Hmmm...it might not hurt you to check your own hostility toward GLBT people. |
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TokenQueer (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 07:17 AM Response to Reply #55 |
112. Yes, but still allowed to troll his bigotry in every other DU forum... |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:51 PM Response to Reply #45 |
81. Your numbers are insane. 20% of urban gay men are not HIV positive. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 04:18 PM Response to Reply #81 |
85. A Chicago Health Department study of 500+ this summer found 17% HIV positive, half being unaware |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 05:38 PM Response to Reply #81 |
88. You're in denial. Why would the CDC and all these other medical studies lie? |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:14 PM Response to Reply #88 |
104. I'm urban. I can assure you 25% of my friends are not HIV+ |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 06:55 AM Response to Reply #104 |
109. Maybe it's generational? |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 08:43 AM Response to Reply #109 |
113. This study didn't mention hospitals, health orgs or patients. |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 09:32 AM Response to Reply #113 |
116. The data isn't from one study |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 11:16 AM Response to Reply #116 |
121. But still, if you're adding skewed data to your data pool - |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 12:24 PM Response to Reply #121 |
125. The CDC are among the best epidemiologists in the world. That's their overall conclusion. |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 01:16 PM Response to Reply #125 |
126. If I were saying that, I would agree. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:31 AM Response to Reply #41 |
50. HIV/AIDS among Men Who Have Sex with Men (CDC) |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:58 AM Response to Reply #50 |
52. 'in five U.S. cities' - nowhere does it pretend to be a national or world statistic, progressive one |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 07:42 AM Response to Reply #52 |
56. I wish people understood more about statistics and sampling |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 08:01 AM Response to Reply #56 |
59. It is true that statistical samples are accurate but by selecting all city dwellers |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:37 PM Response to Reply #59 |
97. Plus it only tested men who shows up at venues. |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:40 PM Response to Reply #97 |
98. According to a survey taken at The Anvil, 97.6% of gay men are into S&M! n/t |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:58 PM Response to Reply #98 |
101. GASP! Who knew? |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:08 PM Response to Reply #101 |
102. I recently took a survey at the garden club meeting |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:09 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. But it's not projecting. |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:21 PM Response to Reply #103 |
105. Exactly! n/t |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 07:00 AM Response to Reply #97 |
110. Definitely not true |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 08:49 AM Response to Reply #110 |
115. And again, |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:43 PM Response to Reply #56 |
79. It's called unwarranted generalization. The CDC has no idea what the population of MSM is. |
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panzerfaust (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:30 AM Response to Reply #52 |
67. 1999 is most recent data I could find in quick www search |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:44 PM Response to Reply #67 |
80. Thank you. The suggestion that 25% of gay men are HIV positive in the US is ludicrous |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 04:23 PM Response to Reply #80 |
87. Modeling may support figures in that range: |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 08:07 PM Response to Reply #87 |
93. there is no way that this would be modeled by an exponential function |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:41 PM Response to Reply #93 |
99. Faculty/Staff Ronald D. Stall, PhD, MPH |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:47 PM Response to Reply #99 |
100. this describes an exponential model |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 11:27 PM Response to Reply #100 |
106. I'm not sure what calculation you're doing -- or perhaps I'm unclear what you mean by |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 11:59 PM Response to Reply #106 |
108. going up by x% a year is an exponential model |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 07:03 AM Response to Reply #108 |
111. No, that's not what exponential is |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 03:30 PM Response to Reply #111 |
130. that isn't what he meant though |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 01:20 PM Response to Reply #52 |
74. Public health policy can only be made on the basis of available information. Feel free |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 08:47 AM Response to Reply #74 |
114. I could post Paul Cameron's work. It would be just about as accurate. n/t |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 03:13 PM Response to Reply #114 |
129. My link was the CDC. Again: do feel free to provide information you consider more accurate. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 09:04 PM Response to Reply #114 |
131. My link was the CDC. Again: do feel free to provide information you consider more accurate. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:23 PM Response to Reply #15 |
27. Deleted sub-thread |
La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:54 AM Response to Reply #15 |
61. wow, these days you don't even bother to try. i get a little grossed out to think i ever thought of |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:39 AM Response to Reply #61 |
68. Sadly, no. |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:39 PM Response to Reply #15 |
77. Wow, where'd you get your made up, nonsense numbers. |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 03:18 PM Response to Reply #77 |
82. +1 |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 03:20 PM Response to Reply #82 |
83. Quelle surprise. |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 04:20 PM Response to Reply #83 |
86. "There's no homophobia on DU" |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 05:41 PM Response to Reply #82 |
89. How is saying people are suffering from a disease demonizing them? |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 05:50 PM Response to Reply #89 |
91. Just can't help yourself, can you? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 07:51 PM Response to Reply #91 |
92. Deleted message |
Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:22 PM Response to Reply #92 |
95. Big talk from a Shirley Maclaine fan. |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 05:43 PM Response to Reply #77 |
90. CDC = Focus on the Family? |
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seabeyond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 09:50 PM Response to Original message |
17. i heard about it a year ago. surprised. couldnt believe it. had to get confirmation |
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Shell Beau (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 09:54 PM Response to Original message |
18. I had no idea there was such a restriction. How bogus is that restriction? |
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timeforpeace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:08 PM Response to Original message |
20. Stupid. How the hell they gonna know you're gay? |
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Skittles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:13 PM Response to Reply #20 |
35. they ask you |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:42 PM Response to Reply #20 |
37. They ask about sexual intercourse with other men. n/t |
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Thickasabrick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:08 PM Response to Original message |
21. Wow...just wow - I had no idea there was a ban. nt |
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tmyers09 (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:09 PM Response to Original message |
22. I am stunned that this policy even exists. |
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libnnc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:11 PM Response to Original message |
24. They'll never get a drop nor a dime from this lesbian until they do. n/t |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:19 PM Response to Reply #24 |
25. If you are referring to the red cross they are not to blame |
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libnnc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:22 PM Response to Reply #25 |
26. My partner tried giving blood about ten years ago |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:24 PM Response to Reply #26 |
28. I agree but the blame now rests squarely on the government |
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libnnc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:34 PM Response to Reply #28 |
30. And until those forms are changed, I shall not give blood. n/t |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:43 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. I agree with that |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:22 PM Response to Reply #26 |
36. I just realized she actually can give as can you |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:34 PM Response to Original message |
29. I was clueless had no idea there was a ban of "gay blood". |
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Lyric (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 10:54 PM Response to Reply #29 |
32. Even if it was, they test all blood now regardless of where it came from. |
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liberal_at_heart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:10 PM Response to Original message |
33. It is definitely time to end this ban |
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Retired AF Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:12 PM Response to Original message |
34. I'm not gay |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:48 PM Response to Reply #34 |
39. I don't think you are permanently banned |
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MH1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:20 AM Response to Reply #39 |
66. Yes, we are |
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MilesColtrane (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:29 AM Response to Reply #34 |
49. Fear of the Mad Cow? |
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Orrex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-05-09 11:49 PM Response to Original message |
40. It depends. Are they still corrupting the sanctity of heterosexual marriage? |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 12:18 AM Response to Original message |
46. i don't see it happening until they develop a reliable way to test blood for cooties... |
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mamaleah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:57 AM Response to Original message |
51. Why do they need a ban at all? |
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Locut0s (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 08:01 AM Response to Original message |
58. Scientifically there is no reason to deny them any more. |
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JonLP24 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:50 AM Response to Original message |
60. I'll also add they need to lift the travel ban based on HIV status |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:05 AM Response to Reply #60 |
63. it finally changed a few weeks ago |
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KG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
62. yes. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 11:01 AM Response to Reply #62 |
69. The OP article is about the UK (nt) |
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panzerfaust (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:05 AM Response to Original message |
64. Should previously pregnant women be banned from giving blood? |
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MH1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 10:16 AM Response to Original message |
65. if a relatively inexpensive test can determine if the blood carries HIV, then yes |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 11:03 AM Response to Reply #65 |
70. all blood is tested for HIV |
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MH1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 11:05 AM Response to Reply #70 |
71. if it's a high reliability test then the ban should be lifted |
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aikoaiko (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 12:00 PM Response to Original message |
72. This policy is relic from the hyperfear culture of the 1980s regaring HIV |
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itsrobert (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 02:33 PM Response to Original message |
76. I can't give blood because I lived in England a few years |
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KitSileya (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 03:43 PM Response to Original message |
84. One of the conservative parties in Norway |
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recoveringrepublican (779 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 09:21 PM Response to Original message |
94. I've never understood this everytime I give blood. I have always been under the |
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scrinmaster (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-06-09 11:31 PM Response to Original message |
107. I'm ineligible, I spent more than 3 months in England between my birth and 1996. |
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Renew Deal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 10:36 AM Response to Reply #107 |
120. I think the limit is now 5 years. |
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scrinmaster (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 12:02 PM Response to Reply #120 |
122. Nah, it's five years for the rest of Europe. Just three months for England/UK. |
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RoadRage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 09:47 AM Response to Original message |
117. Don't they test every drop that is donated anyway?? |
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scrinmaster (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 12:09 PM Response to Reply #117 |
123. I think they mix up a bunch of donations, then test it. |
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beyond cynical (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 10:04 AM Response to Original message |
118. I don't know enough about the issue to comment. |
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Renew Deal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 10:32 AM Response to Original message |
119. I gave blood last week. |
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RoadRage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 12:20 PM Response to Reply #119 |
124. Well, thankfully all of my homosexual acts took place in 1976 or before... |
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Renew Deal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 02:29 PM Response to Reply #124 |
127. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with AIDS |
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RoadRage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-08-09 10:50 AM Response to Reply #127 |
134. I figured... |
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mcablue (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-07-09 09:06 PM Response to Original message |
132. Yes |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Tue May 07th 2024, 04:19 PM Response to Original message |
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