A question to ask your local Bush-loving gun-nut that should shut them up

[Little Wing]

If it's okay for Bush to invade a country that owns weapons because they might use them, why is it not okay for cops to shoot gun-owners because they might use them?

I'll spell this out for our local shooters

You can support an illegal invasion of Iraq because they might use weapons, therefore, cops can shoot you first because you might use weapons. Due process was thrown out in the march to war.

Or, you can argue against the war in Iraq. The rest falls into place quite naturally.

[KT2000]

1. Good one!

I will use that.

[jody]

2. Do you know the Democratic Platform says "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right

to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do."

See http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

[Little Wing]

I do now

but the point remains the same

either admit Iraq was wrong and keep your guns

or

insist Iraq was right and argue for cops shooting first

[jody]

11. My point is everyone who is pro-RKBA is not a Bush lover. RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms)

[Little Wing]

14. And that's because you're completely missing the point

[jody]

18. No, I understand your point even though you now try to change your remark that demeans we Democrats

who support the right to keep and bear arms as an exercise of our natural, inherent, inalienable to defend self and property.

You are dangerously close to advocating the wholesale shooting of anyone who owns a gun.

[Little Wing]

28. No, Freepers are

Again, I said "Bush-lovers who support the Iraq war". I don't know why you decided to inject Democrats against the war into this.

[jody]

32. Good bye. n/t

[Beausoir]

37. Oooh! What pretty shiney stickers you have! You should donate some more money to the NRA tonight!

Are you up for it??

:eyes:

[jody]

38. Glad you like my graphics. Remember them whenever you meet a pro-RKBA Democrat because it was people

like us who fought and died to create this great nation.

We know government is not obligated to protect us meaning self-defense is a personal responsibility.

For us, handguns are the most effective, efficient tools for self-defense just as they are for law-enforcement officers.

Those who would ban handguns or all guns would leave law-abiding citizens defenseless against criminals who overwhelmingly choose handguns for their crimes.

Obviously you don't agree with me but the majority of voters do.

Remember my graphics because they're symbols that win presidential elections for the Democratic Party.

[Vincardog]

3. What about If it's okay for Bush to invade a country that DOES NOT own weapons because

they might use them, why is it not okay for cops to shoot non-gun-owners because they might use them?

[havocmom]

20. Good point

:rofl:

Thanks.

[Little Wing]

29. Furthering the point of how senseless this war is

:hi:

[slackmaster]

4. I despise Bush as much as anyone here, but we do have a thing called due process

Your post is pretty offensive, Little Wing.

[Little Wing]

7. Read it again

I know you sell them, but read it again

[slackmaster]

10. Please retract your misinformation

I do not sell guns. I have never sold one. My Federal Firearms License allows me only to acquire and dispose of curios and relics through interstate commerce, for the purpose of managing a personal collection.

You are attempting to create a nexus between two unrelated things.

[Little Wing]

15. Fine, you don't sell guns. I'm wrong on that aspect related your person

[slackmaster]

16. Thank you

For at least making a token effort to be civil.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

22. Selling guns bad?

How do you feel about manufacturing them?

[Little Wing]

27. I was mistaken in suggesting the person was a gun-salesman

and corrected myself. Selling guns isn't bad, but it does skew one's opinion on the debate. Which this thread wasn't about, it was about using the gun argument against freepers who believe in the Iraq war.

[Maddy McCall]

5. Why do you equate "Bush loving" with "gun nut?"

How do you define "gun nut?"

[Little Wing]

6. I didn't, Bush-loving is key

I didn't suggest asking this to Democrats - it's directed towards the freeper types

[Maddy McCall]

8. What about us Democrats who own guns?

It'd be hypocritical of me to say anything to any of the Republican gun owners I know, because I'm a Democratic gun owner.

I guess I just don't get what you're trying to say. :shrug:

[Little Wing]

13. See OP

edited for "hopefully" further clarity

[tularetom]

9. It already is OK for cops in NY

to shoot people they think might have a gun. As long as said suspected gun owners are members of the right etthnic group.

[Little Wing]

17. Well, no, it's not okay. They've all been indicted.

But that's totally irrelevant

[ends_dont_justify]

12. They'll spin it to how much damage it could do

"But those were WMDs!" Without realizing that a lot of guns would do just as much damage as one WMD if everyone decided to fire.

Good point, though.

[MadHound]

19. Umm the weapons that Bush was nominally after were WMDs

Not just regular guns. And please don't try to make the arguement that a gun is a WMD.

In addition, please recognize that there are many, many gun owners who are and have been vehemently against the war from the beginning.

And just because Bush decided to abandon due process doesn't mean that we should also do away with it also.

[Little Wing]

21. Oh fucking Christ, I'll walk you through this, after that I give up on GD

Not just regular guns. And please don't try to make the arguement that a gun is a WMD.

It's about preemption, which Bushies support. There's that big word preemption or pre-emption, they both work, and they're both bigger than 'gun' and you're missing it. That's why I said it would work against them, not Dems. Well, some Dems anyway.

In addition, please recognize that there are many, many gun owners who are and have been vehemently against the war from the beginning.

And that's why I limited it to Bush-lovers.

And just because Bush decided to abandon due process doesn't mean that we should also do away with it also.

Therefore Bush is wrong, but again, it's not something you'd pose to anyone against the war. This is a question that's designed to rattle around their mostly hollow heads for awhile.

[MadHound]

24. Ooo, vague proposals followed up with condescending posts

You ARE out to win friends and influence people now aren't you:eyes:

Look, as has been noted repeatedly in this thread, your OP was a bit vague and more that a bit angry. We're simply disagreeing with you, and even trying to help you clean it up a bit. If you don't like that, fine, but there is no need to get into a state of high snark about it. And if you can't deal with people disagreeing with you, are pushing for a bit more clarity, then perhaps it would be best for you to stay out of GD.

[Little Wing]

26. It was my mistake to assume GD would be able to catch the underlying message

I stand corrected.

[dysfunctional press]

40. the underlying message makes absolutely no sense...

because it's based on a flawed premise.

[dysfunctional press]

41. but the 'preemption' part only applies to WMD's...you DO understand that, don't you...?

because it sure doesn't seem so.

[StarryNite]

23. That's good

They can't have it both ways.

[matcom]

25. Game.Set.MATCH.

:rofl:

[Irreverend IX]

30. I understand what you mean.

Pro-RKBAers, these comments aren't intended to be targeted at gun-owning Democrats, just the pro-Bush, pro-war gun owners often found at places like the High Road. I've actually used the same "preemptive self-defense" argument with some gun owners I know who supported the Iraq war.

[Little Wing]

31. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

Perhaps I should have preceded my original post with your accurate and concise words.

[beevul]

33. Gun owner against the war here /shrug N/T

[Cobalt-60]

34. Sorry, but Mao was right about the source of political power

Can you imagine the behavior of the Republicons if we were defenseless?
Local fundamentalists would enter your home without permission.
They would stoke your non approved books into a cheery fire on the front lawn.
They would set your tv's (if you watch it) V-Chip for you.
They would be armed from military stores.
We would have pitchforks.
Republicon fanatics drool at the thought of a defenseless population.
I was once a member of the NRA, but quit after I realized that the best tool in the universe for someone seeking our firearms would be the NRA membership list.
OFC it might surprise you to hear that I'm all in favor of mandatory safety and use training for those who didn't already get it in the military.
Kids used to learn gun safety at summer camp or hunting with the elders.
Today they get their lessons from stunt men in Kung Fu movies

[Township75]

35. And what if they say

we attacked them becuase they didn't have weapons (unlike North Korea), so the cops should kill you instead (assuming you don't own a firearm).

Then s/he shoots you...then what do you do?

[Little Wing]

36. Then I'll be dead

Or wounded. Or dying. But then they would have killed me, and they'd have probably surprised me with their gun and shot me, and then in their (and possibly your) fantasy world, someone would have shot the shooter. And then some other concealed owner would have come around the corner and shot the concealed weapon shooter who just shot the shooter, and he would be dead too. Then all the other concealed owners would have done a high-speed gunning and the only people who were left dead were the people ducking. So yes, I've just changed my mind.

Please own guns. You'll all shoot yourselves into extinction sooner or later.

[dysfunctional press]

39. guns are not weapons of mass destruction.

the support of the illegal invasion of iraq was because they might use weapons of mass destruction, not just "weapons".

BIG difference.

every country in the world has weapons- it's the mass destruction ones that get them on 'the list'.