Hey, for those who wanted ponies, boy did you win big!

[Neecy]

You got TRIGGER.



Thanks, President Obama, for not leading! Nice doing business with ya!

Thanks, Harry Reid, for being weak and tame as a lamb!

Thanks, Conservadems, for being complete and utter CORPORATE WHORES.

[Thickasabrick]

1. Trigger was so pretty. nt

[rwheeler31]

2. Just keep up the bashing and what do you get?

[Bluebear]

3. "the bashing"

lol

[Neecy]

4. Apparently, TRIGGER!

Yee-haw!

[d_b]

5. lols

woo-hoo!!

[Neecy]

6. Yippee yay a Cow Patty!

From the badlands came the killer
He lived by the knife and the gun
He'd cut ya just for standin'
Shoot ya if ya tried to run

[RedCloud]

22. And their other tekkie form of transportation!

[roguevalley]

14. bashing? He's stating his opinion, which I will say I feel strongly for

myself. 80 majority in the house, 60 votes in the senate, the white house and we are screwed anyway. May harry reid never reach the apex of his religion's heaven. May all of them go fuck themselves for this.

[TCJ70]

7. I've never understood what "the trigger" was.

Anyone got a brief summary I can read?

And before anyone feels the need to write it...yes, I know this is lazy and I should do my own damn research...but I'm not.

[Neecy]

9. it means

The insurance companies will be free to price gouge for the next 5-10 years before a public option is 'triggered' to keep these dishonest companies honest. And by then, they'll be on to much more important business and the trigger will never be pulled.

[TCJ70]

10. Thank you!

I've really had no idea what that means. I've known about the "waiting period" associated with the public option, but never called it a trigger....hrm.

[Ms. Toad]

24. It is different from the waiting period.

The waiting period is for the insurance exchange, not just the public option. I assume that is still in there.

The trigger means that there is a chance there will not be a public option at all. If the insurance companies behave themselves, no public option will exist. If they miss their targets (I don't know what they are - likely related to cost of premiums), then a public option will be created to compete with the insurance companies. I don't know if the trigger kicks in 4-5 years AFTER the exchange (which starts in 2012-2014, depending on the version of the bill) - and only if the exchange fails - or 4-5 years from when the bill is passed.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. A trigger means that the insurance companies have to offer a viable option

If they refuse to, the government offers it instead.

It's not that complicated, nor is it that sinister. It's a "last chance to fly right" according to the new system. If they don't do it, then the consequences kick in. I've never quite understood what's so unreasonable about the trigger, but then again, I also don't understand people who think any Congress that can't pass a straight public option CAN pass single payer.

[JoeyT]

15. And in the meantime...

Even the people that might qualify for a public option will be forced to deal with the insurance companies for however long it takes for the "trigger" to kick in thanks to mandates.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Neither am I

against mandates. Universal coverage requires universality. Certainly, it would be better if we had single-payer, but I don't see how you transition from nothing to the whole shebang without causing serious disruption.

[tavalon]

19. Serious disruption for the ruling class, perhaps

I don't care about the ruling class. Not one bit.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. I have no idea what that means

Since no country has ever switched from a mature insurance industry to a public one (barring Taiwan, which really had a control economy war model and much fewer people), I'm not sure we know how it would work out. So I should have said that the danger is in massive coverage disruption, and not just for the "ruling class" (whatever that is). And by coverage I don't mean simply policies, but the whole system that thus far relies on it.

[tavalon]

26. I assume since you have no idea about what class means,

you grew up here in the good ol' USA. If you were European, I wouldn't need to explain what class means but here in America, we believe that all men are created equal, having been suckled from birth by that amazing document even though that part has never, ever been true. It wasn't true when it was written (see Abigail Adams - she knew only too well) and it isn't true now. We have different names for the classes - blue collar, middle class but surprisingly, we have no name for the top 2% who own everything. I call them the ruling class since "thems that have the bucks, makes the rules" to quote a southern homily.

You can feel free to believe that you are the same as the Rockefellers, the Bushes, the Kennedys and so on, but they know better and really, you would be better equipped if you knew better. They aren't your allies or your friends, they are your rulers, your owners. You are a serf the same as your people ever were. I'm a serf too. No one who posts here is in any other class, really. The ruling class wants us to think differently because we aren't as likely to roll out the guillotine if we believe the Horatio Alger crap.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. Actually

I've been working on "class" as a concept for most of my adult life, and I could cite you 20 disputes on the definition in the standard Marxist tradition alone, never mind when we get to Weber and his progeny. I have no idea what it means as you're using it in this context.

I actually don't think YOU know what class means.

[tavalon]

28. Neither of us is likely right, then

Sorry I dissed you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. You didn't diss me

And I apologize for the snark, in any case.

[sendero]

18. And the trick is simple..

... if you are the insurance company YOU define what a "viable option" is.

This is just the death knell for any public option, that's all.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. So you say

I think that's what's been happening up to now. If that's how it works out, then certainly the legislation is meaningless, but I'm not such a pessimist.

[JVS]

23. It's like kids being told "If you don't start behaving in the next few hours, I'm stopping this car"

Change hours to tears and kids to insurance companies and you have the situation

[Tab]

8. Yeah, but...

 

 

[ecstatic]

11. Link? Or are you jumping to conclusions again? nt

[Neecy]

13. It's appeared several times in GD

A government-run plan would be retained as a fall-back option, the aides said, and would be triggered only if the new proposal failed to meet targets for providing affordable insurance coverage to a specified number of people.

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/senate-votes-down-effort-to-tighten-abortion-restrictions-in-health-bill/?partner=rss&emc=rss

[Echo In Light]

17. "America has one political party with two right wings." - Gore Vidal

[tbyg52]

30. Nah, just two corporate wings - they get plenty socialist where their buds are concerned. nt

[shadesofgray]

25. Good one. And I remember Obama stressing that we NEEDED the PO to

keep insurance companies "honest."

WHAT A CROCK OF HORSESHIT.

He was no more honest than the insurance companies.

[joeybee12]

31. Please don't compare that beautiful horse with Senate BS!

Thanks!