Here's hoping that healthcare "reform" legislation fails.

[cali]

I've contacted my Senators and asked them to vote against it. Bernie will do just that I trust, and I'm hoping Pat Leahy will to.

Yes, I realize that if it fails, President Obama will almost certainly be a one term president and that dems in Congress will be in even worse shape heading into the next two election cycles than they already are, but that's no excuse for the passage of lousy legislation.

The Senate dems are screwing us.

They're also screwing themselves.

[vi5]

1. Unless someone can tell me how this is going to benefit anyone...

..then I hope so too. I'm afraid the few crumbs of positive things (no denial for pre-existings, no recission (sp?) or dropping people once they get sick, limits on our of pockets, etc) are going to be too easily worked around and not enforced, while the bad things (mandates, no public option, etc.) are going to make up too much of the force of this bill and be enforced with an iron fist because they benefit the industry.

That means this nets out to a negative overall and it's going to cost dems seats in the end anyway so what is the point.

[LWolf]

2. Agreed. nt

[tmyers09]

3. Scrap the bill, pass bans on

discriminating on preexisting conditions, cap out of pocket expenses, and provide some more subsidies. Pass single payer a couple years from now. This is merely what should be done in the interim. In no way will it fully cure our broken system.

[waterscalm]

4. sounds about right.

[Teaser]

5. Bernie supports it

As of last night

[SIMPLYB1980]

18. And Dean. nt

[billyoc]

6. Amen.

[ixion]

7. I agree... as much as I would like to see real healthcare reform, this isn't it

and it shouldn't be passed.

[Echo In Light]

9. Wait until the twits start chirping about 'wait til we elect REAL Dems next time' bullshit lol

Never underestimate the power of denial

[shadesofgray]

8. I've started to feel the exact same way.

[KharmaTrain]

10. So Status Quo Is Fine With You?

If this bill, no matter how flawed or inadequate fails, be sure healthcare reform will become a third rail issue for years...even decades to come. Politicians would be skittish even to talk about it and thus it'd go on the back burner...the insurance companies would continue to play god unabated.

I'm not 100% with what's going on...haven't been for a while, but I do see positives in the legislation (and need to read up more today on what's in the current version) that will benefit people and allows for further revisions and reforms down the road. It also will keep the issue as an important and viable one in future elections. There are going to have to be revisions, and I eventually see single payer being the only way to adequately fund a healthcare system when most of us boomers start getting into Medicare. If a bill fails, there goes any will in the government to do anything...it will be a defeat that all but demoralizes this administration and the Democratic party. Support the bill's failure at your peril....

[zipplewrath]

11. I used to use that logic

I was part of the "status quo won't do" crowd. But really, in the terms of the reasons that the status quo won't do, it isn't clear this bill is going to address any of those problems. To some extent it has the danger of establishing in the minds of the public that the public sector CAN'T do anything about costs. The public is about 5 years away from finding out what the real impact of not getting real reform passed will be. We might be better off in the long run letting the middle class start to lose their benefits and then we'll get the reform we need. This stop gap may just delay everything 5 years, and then leave a structure that can't be used to fix the problem.

[KharmaTrain]

14. But It Won't Be 5 Years...

I've played around with that logic as well, and sadly we may have to see the middle class burn before the demand for reform really gets heard...but then if the politicians are so tone-deaf now to the calls from the public, so you expect them to change in the near future? Over the past couple weeks, I've done my own soul-searching on this issue and it always comes back to the reality that if a healtcare bill fails, it will go into the deep freeze just like it did in 1994...politicians will not want to go back to that issue except as hollow promises during campaigns.

I'm still holding my judgement until I waddle through the details of what's being worked out here, but the bottom line points to a failure to pass any type of bill will paralyze this administration, all but shread up the Democratic party (not unlike the GOOP) in next year's elections and energize the GOOP and corporates. At least a bad bill can be ammended and revisited...better than having to start all over again. There's too much ego and political treasure on the line here.

[Schema Thing]

16. This bill does a lot of good.

and other than simply not punishing the insurance industry, it does no harm.


It won't help me very much for a few years, but it will help many other people, and that's good for everyone.

[zipplewrath]

24. But it may delay any useful reform for a decade or more

It may even put the GOP into power to foist more "no negotiation" laws in place. And it won't address the fundamental problems that our healthcare system currently has. And, oh, by the way, it makes it harder for women to get health care coverage for abortions.

[Schema Thing]

17. This bill does a lot of good.

and other than simply not punishing the insurance industry, it does no harm.


It won't help me very much for a few years, but it will help many other people, and that's good for everyone.

[derby378]

15. If this bill passes, insurance companies won't play God - they'll BE God

They will essentially become part of the Federal government in that you are forced to buy their shitty products. And remember all those discussions we've had about government bureaucracy? Once a bureaucracy is established, it'll just keep getting bigger and bigger. Which is exactly what's going to happen to Humana, UnitedHealthcare, BCBS, Aetna, etc.

[KharmaTrain]

21. They Already Are God...

I worked with my late father's practice for years and saw how the insurance companies determine who cares for a person and what type of care they get. I'm sure it's gotten a lot worse in the 7 years since he's been gone.

As I've said, I'm not 100% in the least with what's going on. I was and still am for a strong public option that would create that "beauracracy" you speak off that at least would be a large enough pool to force down prices, give choice to those who want an alternative and open up self insurance to all people...not make it as a "luxuary" for having a job. It's time to detach healthcare as a condition for employment, period.

That said, right now the real crisis in healtcare is with those with pre-existing conditions. And yes, I'm reaching a bit to find positives here, but I also see the political game going on that trumps all. That's the problem some have with this issue...it's become a sport rather and has lost the human dimension. It's boiling down to having this bill fail means putting this administration in a deep hole that not only will prevent any attempts at future reform but stop many other worthy iniatives from moving forward as well.

Be assured...a failed vote will secure the big insurance companies place as being god...far worse than with even the small reforms being proposed.

[Shagbark Hickory]

12. Nevermind their careers. Think about what's going to happen to healthcare in this country.

Costs are going to continue to skyrocket.

I will use free market principles to shop for a less corrupt country that realizes it needs to keep its citizens alive to keep paying them tax money.

[leeroysphitz]

13. "that's no excuse for the passage of lousy legislation" THANK YOU.

Some people think politics is a sporting event and all that matters is that your team wins THE GAME but this legislation is garbage. It hurts working families. IOW this isn't a game it has real world consequences and we can't put party before country any more.

[walldude]

19. I'm with you.. what was supposed to be reform

is actually going to make it worse. There is nothing left but a gift to the insurance companies. And if they think I'm going to pay some fucking fine because I can't afford the rates insurance companies will charge because of pre-existing conditions they can see me in fucking court.

[tandot]

20. Goody. I am sure the first thing Republicans tackle when they get back in power is health care

and, of course, they'll pass something all the Democrats and liberals will love.

[sinkingfeeling]

22. How childish. You want to delay all health reform for another 70 years. Let's all get behind

continuing to allow 40,000 of our fellow citizens to die each year.

Because you don't like the bill in the Senate, make sure there will never be a conference bill and a chance to get some more people insured.

[bigtree]

23. I don't see why it should die in the Senate

What's the harm in waiting for it to go to conference and see what influence House Democrats have on reconciling the two bills?

I though Bernie sounded like he could be swayed by some cost-cutting measures that he might judge equivalent enough to what he expected from the public option (which he describes as a cost-control).