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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:52 AM
Original message
Bob Dylan's Christmas Album: Is this a Joke?
from The Nation:



Bob Dylan's Christmas Album: Is this a Joke?
posted by Jon Wiener on 12/13/2009 @ 1:17pm



Fans have been puzzled and troubled by Bob Dylan's new Christmas album. To help figure out what Dylan is doing, we turned to Sean Wilentz -- he's the official historian at the official website BobDylan.com, and he also teaches American history at Princeton. He's written many books, including "The Age of Reagan."

Q. "Christmas in the Heart" opens with "Here Comes Santa Claus," a Gene Autry song which, I have to say, is one of the most annoying holiday songs ever written, even before Bob Dylan sang it. "Hang your stockings, say your prayers" -- is this a joke?

A. It's not a joke at all. This is Bob Dylan looking back to his own childhood. He sings the songs that he heard as a kid in Hibbing. He's recalling that time and those songs and that spirit.

The way Dylan sings "I'll Be Home for Christmas," it sounds like a threat, a reason to lock your doors.

This song was originally recorded by Bing Crosby in 1943. Christmas songs during World War II had a whole different meaning. They were the music that held people together, wondering whether their boys overseas would come home alive, ever. Then after the war, Christmas music became a way to assert a kind of normality, which a lot of people in America hadn't felt since the beginning of the depression. It's also a sort of tribute to Bing Crosby – 13 of the 15 songs were recorded by Bing Crosby. He doesn't have Crosby's voice, but he's copying Bing Crosby's phrasing, which I know he admires.

"Must Be Santa" features David Hidalgo of Los Lobos from East L.A. on accordion.

It's my favorite song on the album. It's a polka – it recalls the great polka bands of the Midwest in the 1940s and 1950s, people like Frankie Yankovic and Whoopee John Wilfahrt. And you should see the video – wild!

On "Winter Wonderland," Bob sounds like your grizzled old uncle at the family party who's had a little too much of the alcoholic egg nog.

I think that's exactly the point. However this is the first time "Winter Wonderland" has been done with a pedal steel guitar. There are touches of the current Bob Dylan here along with what Bob Dylan was hearing when he was seven years old. ...........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/505907/bob_dylan_s_christmas_album_is_this_a_joke




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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nope, it's really that bad.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
60. it is if you have your own expectations. Happily, Dylan has never been anyone's performing monkey
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 12:15 AM by KittyWampus
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #60
65. +1

I actually thought this was a joke when I first heard of it. Then I listened to it, and it really does have a feeling to it I enjoy, and I tend not to enjoy Christmas music all that much due to overexposure.

But listening to some of these songs reminds me of something ... comforting I guess. I don't know that I'd have gone where the answers in the OP went naturally, but I can certainly see it.

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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #60
75. Actually, it's possible to come into it with an open mind and still think it's pretty bad.
But you probably knew that.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. This isn't the first time Dylan has suffered this kind of criticism.
It isn't the second or third time he's shifted gears and made people wince or groan or run for the exits.

For whatever reason, it always turns out well for him.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. He was pilloried for using an ELECTRIC guitar
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Somebody forgot to tell the clueless folkies that PAs, turntables, radio, and TV
are all a form of amplification.

:eyes:
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
46. psst: wive's tale. go to the original video. it's on youtube.
you'll hear mostly cheers, not boos.

howling wolf had done an electric set the previous day without incident.

***

Bob Dylan's 1963 and 1964 performances had made him popular with the Newport crowd, but on July 25, 1965 Dylan was booed by some fans when he played with backing from Mike Bloomfield on Guitar and others from an electric blues/rock and roll band known as The Paul Butterfield Blues Band while headlining the festival. It is usually said that the reason for the crowd's hostile reception was Dylan's 'abandoning' of the folk orthodoxy, or poor sound quality on the night (or a combination of the two). This incident, Dylan's first live 'plugged-in' set of his professional career, marked the shift in his artistic direction from folk to rock, and had wider implications for both styles of music.

This incident has now been proven to be untrue in Alexander Cockburn's Essay Collection 'Serpents in the Garden' - where the original tapes were played back and shown to have not been booing at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_Folk_Festival



the "controversy" came mostly out of dylan's pr machine.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. He was also pilloried for finding Jebus
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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. I actually love a few songs off that album
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #39
74. "Precious Angel"
Precious angel, under the sun,
How was I to know you'd be the one
To show me I was blinded, to show me I was gone
How weak was the foundation I was standing upon?

Now there's spiritual warfare and flesh and blood breaking down.
Ya either got faith or ya got unbelief and there ain't no neutral ground.
The enemy is subtle, how be it we are so deceived
When the truth's in our hearts and we still don't believe?

Shine your light, shine your light on me
Shine your light, shine your light on me
Shine your light, shine your light on me
Ya know I just couldn't make it by myself.
I'm a little too blind to see.

My so-called friends have fallen under a spell.
They look me squarely in the eye and they say, "All is well."
Can they imagine the darkness that will fall from on high
When men will beg God to kill them and they won't be able to die?

Sister, lemme tell you about a vision I saw.
You were drawing water for your husband, you were suffering under the law.
You were telling him about Buddha, you were telling him about Mohammed
in the same breath.
You never mentioned one time the Man who came and died a criminal's death.

Shine your light, shine your light on me
Shine your light, shine your light on me
Shine your light, shine your light on me
Ya know I just couldn't make it by myself.
I'm a little too blind to see.

Precious angel, you believe me when I say
What God has given to us no man can take away.
We are covered in blood, girl, you know our forefathers were slaves.
Let us hope they've found mercy in their bone-filled graves.

You're the queen of my flesh, girl, you're my woman, you're my delight,
You're the lamp of my soul, girl, and you torch up the night.
But there's violence in the eyes, girl, so let us not be enticed
On the way out of Egypt, through Ethiopia, to the judgment hall of Christ.

Shine your light, shine your light on me
Shine your light, shine your light on me
Shine your light, shine your light on me
Ya know I just couldn't make it by myself.
I'm a little too blind to see.
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. "JUDAS!!!!"
ha ha. Who care's about all the Dylan haters.

He's easily the most influential rock star in history and his songwriting will never be touched. He can do whatever the hell he wants.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
47. it's because he's a true original. he's not motivated by the trappings of stardom.
he's donating the proceeds from this cd to charity.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. Oh, goddess, how the mighty have fallen.
I prefer to stay in a time warp re Dylan and remember lyrics like:

"The motorcycle black Madonna two-wheeled gypsy queen?"
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. The only thing worse would be an Ice-T Christmas album
Samples of "Here Comes Santa Claus" while Santa yells "Fuck da Police" from his sleigh.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
58. I'm guessing Ice-T has too much self respect.
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. Slow Sleigh Coming
}(

I wish he would do a full on polka album. Perhaps he could do a duet with the Schmenge Brothers on 'Cabbage Rolls and Coffee'.
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. lol n/t
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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Anyone actually heard it?
Or how about the fact that Dylan announced last year that he was going to be doing this project with all of the proceeds going specifically to charity funds to feed hungry children at Christmastime.

I wonder why that information didn't make it into this "article."

For me, croaky or not, born again back when or whatever, I will buy this album and add it to my collection knowing I helped feed hungry children in this world at Christmastime. And heard Dylan's interpretation of Christmas music through his decades.


Welcome Yule!




Just my dos centavos


robdogbucky
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. +1
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mulsh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. I got my copy a week or so ago. the band is very tight.
I've been a Dylan fan since I was in grammar school in the 60's. The band and Mixed Voice Singers are very, very tight. One of the best bands he's recorded with. Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas is every bit as sad was the original Judy Garland version. Of course Mel Tormet is probably doing a little spinning in his grave but at least Mr. Dylan sings the complete song, including the intro verse.
top that IceT

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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
59. well, if donation is your ONLY reason to buy, just send the $15 straight to the charity
Bob's doing good by donating proceeds to charity, but that may only be $1 or $2 per disc, with the rest going to the retailer, distribution costs, etc.

If you don't think you'll ever play the thing, consider sending the entire purchase price direct to the charity, and watch the "Must Be Santa" video on YouTube. I'm sure Bob will thank you either way.

:)
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
66. Yes ...

I like it. I didn't expect to.

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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
69. I listened to what he did to the Wells/Torme classic
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 09:02 AM by whistler162
The Christmas Song for about 10 seconds.

I donated $30 to -

http://feedingamerica.org/

Instead of buying a atrocious album which would donate 50 cents or so to charity.
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Lint Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. Isn't this Dylan's foray into comedy?
I think maybe he's doing an Andy Kaufman routine.
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. Bob Jumped The Shark
at the 1965 Newport FF as far as I am concerned.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Guess You Missed "Lay Lady Lay"
~
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. I don't get the criticism
What is the big deal about him putting out a Christmas album. I know he is the icon for the counterculture, but everyone grows up eventually.
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Not only that, BUT PROCEEDS GO TO CHARITY. Cut the dude some slack. And yeah, its just a christmas
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 11:36 AM by zonkers
album. I just cant get all heavy on it. Personally, I like the idea of little bobby zimmerman on a frosty Minnesota night, listening to Gene Autry.
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. Yeah I know, I love how some folks
cannot simply move on. The same heroes they had as children must never change. And what the fuck is this hate of Christmas by some on this board. I don't get it. I agree.
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
71. So donate to a charity.....
instead of having 50 cents maybe a dollar from the album go to that charity or some other charity.

http://feedingamerica.org/

He maybe be a good songwriter but he is no Johnny Mercer, Willie Nelson, or even a Hoagy Carmichael singing wise.
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
72. So donate to a charity.....
instead of having 50 cents maybe a dollar from the album go to that charity or some other charity.

http://feedingamerica.org/

He maybe be a good songwriter but he is no Johnny Mercer, Willie Nelson, or even a Hoagy Carmichael singing wise.
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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
11. Dylan can do anything he damn well pleases
His contribution to the human family is sealed. Allow the man to participate in all the failings of being human.
Who has not waxed nostalgic on occasion when recalling our childhood Christmas experiences? He is still addressing his generation who grew up with this music.
I think he may recognize something inside of us all that we tend to deny. For Bob it is all about the music.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. He's also a 68 year old grandfather
And I think he also had his grandchildren in mind when he did this - and as a grandfather myself, I think that reason alone kicks ass. :D
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ChazII Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
45. Thank you for your common sense. n/t
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well, I ain't buying it, but Dylan remains a god to me, regardless.
I am puzzled by whether he's a Jew or a Christian at this point, but I don't really care one way or the other. More a point of curiosity (see Slow Train Coming.)
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. It might have been a better album if his voice wasn't so shredded
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 11:25 AM by Sebastian Doyle
I mean, we all know nobody buys a Dylan record for his singing, but it's especially bad here. Sounds like he gargled with sulfuric acid just before he went in the studio. And since it's all Christmas "classics", he doesn't even have his lyrics to save him.

But it's Dylan, so he'll get away with it. I doubt anybody else would.
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Chef Eric Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. "Must be Santa" is fun!
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. OMG I don't know
if I am sorry I saw this or thrilled I saw this. At one point where he sings Ho Ho Ho in that slurry, grizzled voice he had me laughing so hard my husband had to come over and see what was up.

Love the polka.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. That's one of my alltime favorite Christmas songs
The whole album is awesome.

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
50. Far superior to Raffi.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
52. I agree, I like it. nt
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. The way Dylan sings "I'll Be Home for Christmas," it sounds like a threat
LOL
That's pretty funny!

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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. You haven't listened to this yet, have you . . . .
The reviewer on NPR said the same thing ("It sounds like a threat") and I found that intensely funny until I listened to the cut -- it makes you want to nail your doors shut and pull the blinds and be very quiet until Dec. 26 or so.

I do not understand how anyone could make that song sound sinister, but Dylan manages exactly that!
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. You have to hear it.
'Creepy' is being charitable.

'Threatening' is closer to the overall tone of Dylan's take.

It conjures up the vision of a man walking up a snowy path to the door of a cabin in the woods, dragging a bloody axe behind him.


I listened to some of the cuts, and overall from my limited exposure, I give it a :wtf: .
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. "Bloody axe" image = perfect. . . . n/t
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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
20. It's a Christmas album. Nothing more, nothing less.
He performs many of the staples of the genre, and does a fine job. Jimmy Buffet and Leon Redbone did the same thing. If you like Dylan and you like Christmss music, you'll like this album. If you dislike one or the other, don't buy it.
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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Buy it
so that hungry children have food on Christmas, whether you like the music or not.

Can always sell it back to a store as used and recoup some of your $$$$

I still can't figure out why the charity angle was not cited in the linked article.



Welcome Yule!



rdb
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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
26. He's an artist and he don't look back
Don't buy it if you don't like it.
Dylan's legacy as an artist is well-established. I'm not a fan of any Christmas crap anyway so I'll pass, but the charity angle is very nice actually.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. 100% of the royalties go to FeedingAmerica
In perpetuity, not just from current sales. Most artists do Christmas albums because they are easy money - they usually sell well. I like that Bob knows he doesn't need the money, and will be putting those holiday album sales to good use.

That being said, I like the album (I am an atheist, so to me, Christmas songs celebrate two different mythical beings). Yes, it is a bit surreal to hear Bob tackle some of the classics - but the surrealism makes it that much more fascinating than the usual holiday fare. His croaking voice gives some much needed roughness to the overproduced polish most of these songs inspire. There are some great vocal harmonies, and unique instrumental arrangements that round it all out nicely.

My favorites include "The Christmas Blues", which is not a done-to-death standard, "Must Be Santa", a manically fun polka (the part where he recites the names of recent presidents in order cracks me up), and "O Come All Ye Faithful (Adeste Fidelis)" because every one should hear Dylan sing in Latin at least once, LOL.

I admit I get a kick of how people take Christmas albums so seriously, when they should be taken in the spirit in which they are intended: fun. Hell, even Rob Halford did a holiday album. :D
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. I donate to them every month. I heard one or two songs from this CD on the radio
I will pass.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
76. I was just getting the info out there
I do not think people HAVE to buy it in order to help feed others. I like the direct approach myself. But I think this album has the potential to raise millions for feeding the hungry in America, and I think it's amazing that more artists don't lend their name or stature to do similar acts with their holiday albums (Live Aid offshoot Band Aid's "Do They Know It's Christmas?" is a notable exception). Most cynically use them to line their pockets when their creativity dries up. Since Bob has had a run of good solid albums since 1997, he doesn't really have anything to prove here.

The only Dylan albums I outright dislike are "Slow Train Coming" (which sounds good instrumentally) and "Saved". There are a few other clunkers, such as "Self-Portrait". They all lack what his Christmas album does not: a sense of humor and whimsy. Kind of like what GD lacks in that regard. ;-)
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. Oh dear, oh dear. The review is making me LOL.
:rofl:

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
68. Someone posted the Youtube link to "Must Be Santa". GOD, I love a good polka
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
36. I will never get why anyone likes Dylan
he's whiny and arrogant and his voice is grating.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I agree
My son is a huge fan and we have Dylan arguments all the time. LOL
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. He's the greatest poet of my generation, bar none, imo --
and I would believe this if he'd written nothing but his talking blues.

The "singing" is beside the point for me, pretty much --

I've heard wheel-bearings going out that sounded better.

I'm willing to grant geniuses the right to be arrogant, but I certainly don't expect everybody to feel that way.
And there are arrogant geniuses I dislike intensely (Bill Gates, Oliver Stone).
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Really?
So you'd put Dylan over Alan Ginsberg, Gregory Corso, Gary Snyder to name just a couple American poets from that generation. And that's just American poets - there's a whole world out there.

Dylan seems pretty smarmy and childish in comparison. I mean seriously - "lay lady lay"? You'd put that above Sylvia Plath or Ginsberg?
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I didn't mean to imply that EVERY song he wrote is Deathless Art.
But yes, I believe the corpus of Dylan's work beats that of the others you mentioned. I do like Snyder, yes. Read him long ago.

This is my personal opinion and I certainly have no credentials to speak for anyone other than myself. I'm not trying to make other people like Dylan, just stating my opinion, kay?

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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #44
64. yep, me too. just my opinion.
peace to you. :P
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #43
77. Damn, you are ignorant
It doesn't matter that you don't like Dylan, it's that you are unbearably ignorant about his OBJECTIVE and VERY REAL INFLUENCE on songwriting. Countless artists owe him a debt that can never be repaid. Dylan had his influences too - Woody Guthrie, Elvis, etc., but between 1962 and 1965 he changed the way lyrics were written (subject matter, meter, imagery, POV) and how instrumental arrangements were done (the bands he assembled for 'Highway 61 Revisited' and 'Blonde On Blonde', with pianos, organs, etc. playing riffs not heard on rock albums before).

If it wasn't for him, the Beatles would never have left bubblegum behind - the likes of "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" being exchanged for the likes of "Eleanor Rigby" is but one of hundreds of examples - and I am not even including the fact that he personally introduced the Beatles to pot, which unleashed creative potential by itself. I am 100% certain that the artists YOU like were influenced by Dylan either directly or through an artist who was.

So again, dislike him all you want, but get your facts straight. And citing "Lay Lady Lay" (which respects the conventions of C&W and makes no pretense of being poetry) is disingenuous at best. Overlooking "Blowin' In The Wind" (not bad for a 21 year old in terms of maturity), "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall", "It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)", "With God On Our Side", "My Back Pages", and on and on is well, to borrow a phrase very popular in GD these days, intellectually dishonest.

But I am saving your worst ignorance for last. Ginsburg LOVED Dylan, and hung out with him often in the early days. He even appeared with Dylan in D.A. Pennebaker's documentary of Dylan called "Don't Look Back". Ginsburg very much considered Dylan a poet. Why you don't consider him likewise makes you the arrogant, childish, and smarmy one.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. Calling Dylan "the greatest poet of a generation" is ignorant.
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 12:57 PM by Matariki
Ignorant of a whole bodies of literature from the time, not just American, but all over the world.

Liking Dylan is subjective. I don't like him. You can like him, that's your business.

And since we're name calling, you are rude AND in need of some literature classes.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. Bob hasn't done much cool since the Traveling Wilburies
And that was 20 years ago.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
51. But, it was totally cool.
I saw him in concert about 7 years ago. He was awesome then, too.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #41
67. You don't like this one? It fits the mood of the moment lately.
Things Have Changed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9EKqQWPjyo

A worried man with a worried mind
No one in front of me and nothing behind
There's a woman on my lap and she's drinking champagne
Got white skin, got assassin's eyes
I'm looking up into the sapphire tinted skies
I'm well dressed, waiting on the last train

Standing on the gallows with my head in a noose
Any minute now I'm expecting all hell to break loose

People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed

This place ain't doing me any good
I'm in the wrong town, I should be in Hollywood
Just for a second there I thought I saw something move
Gonna take dancing lessons do the jitterbug rag
Ain't no shortcuts, gonna dress in drag
Only a fool in here would think he's got anything to prove

Lot of water under the bridge, Lot of other stuff too
Don't get up gentlemen, I'm only passing through

People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed

I've been walking forty miles of bad road
If the bible is right, the world will explode
I've been trying to get as far away from myself as I can
Some things are too hot to touch
The human mind can only stand so much
You can't win with a losing hand

Feel like falling in love with the first woman I meet
Putting her in a wheel barrow and wheeling her down the street

People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed

I hurt easy, I just don't show it
You can hurt someone and not even know it
The next sixty seconds could be like an eternity
Gonna get low down, gonna fly high
All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie
I'm in love with a woman who don't even appeal to me

Mr. Jinx and Miss Lucy, they jumped in the lake
I'm not that eager to make a mistake

People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. I've heard it and if it is it isn't a very funny joke
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
48. have some fun, watch his christmas video here......
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #48
61. To be fair, he owes a nod to Brave Combo for the arrangement...
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 12:21 AM by gmoney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnc076s4jt4

Skip over the first 30 seconds or so... don't know if he credits BC for the arrangement or not.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
49. for some reason, you highlighted the more negative parts
:shrug:
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #49
70. Umm, it's the first part of an interview in the Nation....I didn't "highlight" anything.....
..... I posted it. :think:
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. excuse me
I should have said, put in "bold letters"
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
53. Bob is of the age
that he knows about sexism. When he appeared on a Victoria Secret's commercial singing a song, I figured he had simply lost his mind.

Now I know he has.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
54. Sting released one as well.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
55. Wow, that interviewer sounds like a real fuckknob!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
56. A HUGE % of CDs are sold between Thanksgiving and New Year's so there are TONS of Xmas CDs...
Check out the bestseller list on Amazon. A LOT of Christmas stuff.
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704wipes Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
57. when does his Kwanzaa album come out ?
nt
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
62. It is quite possibly the worst album in the history of music.
It hurts my ears.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
63. Is anybody holding a gun to your head making you buy or listen to his CD?
It sounds pretty good to me.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
73. I'll defend Dylan's choice to record anything he wants.
If he does a bubble-gum album, I'll defend his doing it. I may not BUY it, but the man from HIbbing does not owe me another note. He's put some of the most amazing compositions ever into my skull over a long period.

Long may ye run, Mr. Dylan.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
78. Dylan's last 10 albums have been great
This one is great too..
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
80. You should be happy...it could be a lot worse...for instance......
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 02:19 PM by LaPera
I'm assuming Dylan doesn't sing, "I saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus", "Rudolf the Red-nosed Reindeer" or the terribly schmaltzy "(I'm Dreaming of a) White Christmas"....Why anyone would buy a Dylan Christmas Album is way beyond me, but no where near as far out there as ever imagining Bob Dylan doing a Merry Christmas hits album (CD) for K-Tel.
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