Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"I think one answer here is that Lieberman isn't actually all that smart."

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 03:44 PM
Original message
"I think one answer here is that Lieberman isn't actually all that smart."
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-plank/understanding-joe-lieberman


Understanding Joe Lieberman
Jonathan Chait


I've been saying for a while that Joe Lieberman posed the greatest threat to health care reform. Unlike the rest of the party, he has no political interest in the passage of reform or a successful Obama presidency, and he seems to view the prospect of sticking it to the liberals who supported his Democratic opponent in 2006 as a goal potentially worth sacrificing the lives of tens of thousands of Americans to fulfill. (Of course, the irony is that Lieberman is actually vindicating his 2006 critics and undermining his own defense from that time, which revolved around him being a progressive Democrat on domestic policy issues.)

Still, I feel that liberals are somewhat overreacting to Lieberman's turn against health care reform. It's true that Lieberman refused to take part in negotiations with Reid over the compromise, suggested he could support the bill presuming a positive CBO score, and then decided to stick in the knife. However, I don't think that health care reform is in peril. If Harry Reid decided to submit to Lieberman's demands, the health care bill would basically revert to what the Senate Finance Committee produced. That's still a major piece of legislation. Expectations among liberals have risen since then, so the come-down is understandable. But this isn't the end of reform.

Now, the counter-argument is that Lieberman may well come up with a reason to back away from that bill as well. Given his obvious bad-faith negotiation, that's certainly a danger. But Olympia Snowe is not negotiating in bad faith, and she, unlike Lieberman, actually seems to care about health care reform. So even if you revert to something like the Senate Finance bill and Lieberman tries to stab you in the back, you can still pick up Snowe. (A fact that itself reduces the chance that Lieberman will attempt a second act of sabotage -- why try to knife health care reform if you can't kill it?)

I also think liberals, myself included, might be driving ourselves a little nuts trying to divine Lieberman's motives. He keeps flip-flopping and explaining his shifts by making demonstrably false claims. What's his game? Why does he keep saying these wrong, uninformed things?

I think one answer here is that Lieberman isn't actually all that smart. He speaks, and seems to think, exclusively in terms of generalities and broad statements of principle. But there's little evidence that he's a sharp or clear thinker, and certainly no evidence that he knows or cares about the details of health care reform. At one point during the 2000 recount, the Gore campaign explained to Lieberman why lowering standards for military ballots would be totally unfair and illegal, and Lieberman proceeded to go on television and subvert the campaign's position. Gore loyalists interpreted this as a sellout, but perhaps the more plausible explanation was that Lieberman -- who, after all, badly wanted to be vice-President -- just didn't understand the details of the Gore position well enough to defend it. The guy was taken apart by Dick Cheney in the 2000 veep debate.

I suspect that Lieberman is the beneficiary, or possibly the victim, of a cultural stereotype that Jews are smart and good with numbers. Trust me, it's not true. If Senator Smith from Idaho was angering Democrats by spewing uninformed platitudes, most liberals would deride him as an idiot. With Lieberman, we all suspect it's part of a plan. I think he just has no idea what he's talking about and doesn't care to learn. Lieberman thinks about politics in terms of broad ideological labels. He's the heroic centrist voice pushing legislation to the center. No, Lieberman doesn't have any particular sense of what the Medicare buy-in option would do to the national debt. If the liberals like it, then he figures it's big government and he should oppose it. I think it's basically that simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. now this is a report that can be confirmed with overwhelming evidence
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Actually, I Think It's Even More Simple: He's A Nasty, Vindictive POS
He doesn't even have "broad ideological labels" or maybe he does but they are not necessarily relevant to his obstruction. He's obstructing because he gets his kicks by obstructing. It serves a personal need. He is carrying out a personal, vindictive vendetta.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. no mention of Lieberman's financial interests?
a whole column on Joe's motives and not a single word about all the money he and his wife are getting from insurance companies?

This is a giant whitewash of Joe Lieberman, concealed with some harsh-sounding words about him. What liberal is going to object to a column that calls Lieberman stupid?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chisox08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Lieberman should be ran out of office
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think the problem is psychological...
I think Joe got such an ego boost over being chosen for the 2000 ticket, he assumed that, once that election was over, he would automatically become the "heir apparent" for 2004, the most-respected voice in the Democratic Party, etc., etc. When that didn't happen, he became bitter and decided to "get back" at those who denied him his "rightful" place.

But I also suspect that, during his assumption that he'd be the 2004 nominee, he became invested with not only becoming President, but becoming "the first Jewish President," being the man who broke through barriers, etc. Failing to see that happen, and, even worse, seeing an African-American make it to the White House first, has left him with a desire to undercut that person who took away from him his chance to go down in history as a barrier-breaker. (After all, look how he basically threw himself into the McCain campaign, after Obama had backed him in the 2006 primary.) In short, I think he'd do all he can to destroy Obama, regardless of any policy differences.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. For my money
you've hit the nail squarely on the had. He is bitter beyond understanding at all the "liberals" who refused to see his obvious 'right' to the nomination in 2004. Then, to top it off, the Democrats came up with a 'schwarzer' as candidate in 2008, and he lost it completely. He will do anything and everything in his power to hurt or even destroy Obama. We need to cut this cancer out of our body politic and let him go be a turncoat with his Rethug friends.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Ohhhh, nice take! Very insightful and appreciated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Kick!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. His heart shriveled and died when he got literally THROWN out of the Dem Party.
I really don't think he saw it coming. People were patient with him b/c they felt they had no alternative. Along comes Ned Lamont (who did NOT originally want to be the candidate) and BINGO, Ned's a media star and everything Joe had wanted to be: loved and looked up to.

I wouldn't be surprised if he physically sickens soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Great post! K&R!
Loserman is SLIME!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. sounds plausible which means he's totally a tool doing what his staff tells him to do- like most rep
Republican politicians and far too many other Democrats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Baucus bill is NOT reform -- it would shackle Americans with a mandate ...
without delivering anything in return. If LIEberman wants to play obstructionist, Reid should both strip him of his chairmanship (all committee memberships, for that matter) and go to reconciliation. Passing the Baucus bill at least would get us to conference committee; but anything worthwhile from conference would still face the LIEberman and blue-dog problems real reform has faced all along. If there is to be real reform, it will likely have to be via reconciliation. Anything less will spell the end of the Democratic majority (not to mention my support for the Party) and ensure the failure of the Obama presidency. I cry for our country if true reform cannot pass this time; but I may simply have to cry for this country -- and think about retiring elsewhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DLnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yes, not the sharpest knife in the drawer . . .
in a drawer full of spoons, in fact.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. This needs to be kicked ...

Way too many "Lieberman is an evil genius" sentiments out there today ...

Evil he may be. Genius he is not.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC