Should DU have a Progressive/Liberal Forum?

[PufPuf23]

I am relatively new as a member of DU and would post more save for the flame wars.

Many Democrats have been left in the cold for years. In 2008 we voted and hoped for great change and achieved majorities in both houses of Congress and a charismatic President.

I personally do not believe that Progressives-Liberals ideals are best served by leaving the Democratic party. I do believe that the Neo-liberals ("New", "Third Way", DLC) have co opted the Democratic party, marginalized the Progressive-Liberals, and have moved away from many long held Democratic ideals and wants of the common people.

A Progressive-Liberal forum would be a forum to advance Progressive-liberal ideals and hopefully decrease the bashing between DUers and decrease the bashing of our current administration and representitives.

I define Progressive/Liberal Democrats as those that in general support:

1)Political movements reflecting New Deal/Great Society/FDR's Economic Bill of Rights style economic and social programs;

2)Reduced military spending, an end to current wars, and war only in defense and as a last resort.

3)Fair trade over free trade with strong regulatory and tax policy checks on globalization in trade policy.

4)Civil rights.

5)Strong separation of Church and State.

6)Single Payer health care.

7.Strong regulatory and tax policy for international corporations and financial institutions.

8.Progressive income and inheritance taxes.

9.Readily available and inexpensive education and health care.

10.Environmental protection and clean, renewable energy.

[valerief]

1. DU is for progressives. Check out Help. Democrats used to be progressive.

2. Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

[NJmaverick]

7. I think you read it backwards, Progressives used to support Democrats and their

efforts. It's a board for Democrats and progressives who support the Democratic party

[mike_c]

15. dems want our support but won't represent us in return....

Piss on that.

[PufPuf23]

37. Too many don't support progressive/liberal ideals nt

[NJmaverick]

41. DU welcomes Democrats of all stripes

that is right from the DU about us page

[Baclava]

54. Don't answer!

[truedelphi]

73. Your words may not have an abundance of elequance there, Mike, but

I am behind them 100 percent.

[Ignis]

46. "who support the Democratic party" -- Not true, re-read the rules.

Despite centrist wet-dreams to the contrary, there is no party loyalty test for DU.

[NJmaverick]

47. I read the about us, that says Democrats of all stripes are welcome

hate to have some facts rain on your fantasy... sorry

[Ignis]

49. "some facts rain on your fantasy" -- What facts?

Got facts? Post 'em.

Got more of your usual bullshit obfuscation? Stuff it.

[NJmaverick]

50. From the about us page of DU

"We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html


Now any decent human being would apologize at this point.

[Ignis]

51. "any decent human being" -- Unlike you? Support your claim or STFU.

Also, it would be ever-so-slightly-less disingenuous to quote all of the relevant text, rather than simply the parts you like. Here's the very next sentence after the one you cherry-picked:

While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

I don't see a party loyalty test there. If you do, you should really either see an optometrist or contact Skinner to tell him the website has been hacked.

So unless you have any support for your claim that DU is "a board for Democrats and progressives who support the Democratic party," I'll be waiting right here for an apology.

:hi:

Of course, I don't really think you'll do anything other than dance, engage in personal attacks, and back-pedal--but I remain an optimist that people can change their stripes.

[NJmaverick]

57. and shock of shock, no apology

[Ignis]

59. OK, I'll play along: For what _precisely_ do I owe _you_ an apology?

I'm still waiting for your support, by the way. And I'll keep asking until I get it or you retract your disinformation.

So crank up the ad-hominem machine if you like--and your posting history shows that you suuuuuuuuuuuuure do like to use them--but calling me names won't make DU a board that requires a party loyalty test.

[Ignis]

75. ... And it's *crickets* yet again. I'm not surprised. (nt)

[NJmaverick]

2. Can we have a Democratic party board?

[valerief]

3. Not until we have a Republican Party board. Fair and balanced, you know. nt

[ElboRuum]

4. FRACK! Self-Delete

[Jackpine Radical]

5. Some of us think of it as the Democratic wing

of the Democratic Party.

[JuniperLea]

6. Good list... good idea too...

I voted, and rec'd... but, you know how it goes;)

[PufPuf23]

38. Thank you. nt

[Kahuna]

8. I vote, YES! K&R. nt

[SteppingRazor]

9. Who's not for all that stuff?

I think just about every DUer is for at least 8 or 9 out of 10. The only difference is in how much crap they are willing to put up with on the road toward those goals.

So, maybe we should have a "Not Willing to Put Up With Crap" forum? ;)

[blondeatlast]

30. But we'd have to have what, maybe 8-10 subforums? I'm willing to put up with

a, b, and j, but never that.

[Number23]

65. Thank you! Your suggestion makes about as much sense as the OP's.

[onenote]

10. can we have an echo chamber forum

where only people who agree with each other on everything can post and everyone has a pony.

[xultar]

26. +1

[PufPuf23]

40. People by nature don't 100% agree

My life isn't perfect and I have enough ponies to get me through the remainder of my life.

However, the current wealth and income distribution (and opportunity associated with wealth and income) is in far poorer than growing up in the 50 and 60s and being educated and joining the work force in the 70s.

My idea was to decrease strife within threads.

[Sebastian Doyle]

62. Isn't that what GD:Message Discipline LLC (formerly GD: P) is?

Though a lot of pom pom waving is going on in GD lately too. :puke:

[rucky]

11. How about a centrist forum instead?

[mike_c]

17. actually, I like that idea better....

A place where all the DINOs and republican lite blue dog types can hide from daylight.

[leftstreet]

12. All ten of your points are freely discussed in GD

:shrug:

It would really suck if we had to access a specific forum to discuss reduced military spending or health care, etc.

What would GD become? The Tiger Woods forum?

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. When i started here I thought DU WAS a progressive liberal forum.

It saddens me to recognize a need for a progressive liberal forum within the forum.

[xultar]

27. The P/L forum wil be a place of wonder and serenity, you just need to pass the test

[Ignis]

55. How about we use the party's published platform as a test? (nt)

[FSogol]

14. Translation: I'm more liberal than you.

:cry:

[KamaAina]

16. Of course. And it should be called "Democratic Underground".

:-)

[damntexdem]

18. Are progressive/liberal ideals served at all by the Democratic Party.

It remains to be seen, but the evidence is pretty poor at this point.

[MNDemNY]

19. No, they should have a "new Democrat "(read:DLC) and Obama spooge forum.

We could call it the "romper room".

[OHdem10]

20. Can we be the Supporters of Working Class and Poor.

[xultar]

21. Will we use the P/L forum to post the Ban Politico threads?

:rofl:

[rudy23]

22. No, let the DLC start their own forum--DU was ours from the getgo.

You might not have been here for a long time, but the site was 95% Progressive until the primaries started. It got even worse ever since Rahm's Message Discipline team showed up. Make them sit at the kiddie table, not us.

[Earth_First]

23. +1

[Ignis]

48. This would be nice.

I'm going to channel DK and say, "I want my progressive board back!" :D

[xultar]

24. Is the P/L forum what we will use for dissing all democrats except when we like them?

:rofl:

[xultar]

25. Will the P/L forum be the place where we agree on everthing and everyone believes the same thing

[blondeatlast]

28. Sometimes the dialog is lss than healthy, but no--I think we ought to battle it out in the fresh. nt

[asdjrocky]

29. See I once thought DU was a liberal and progressive forum.

[Prism]

31. No. You can already see the bad result in the Barack Obama group.

It would probably devolve into a forum where liberals and progressive go to talk shit about other DUers. Much how the Barack Obama forum currently functions. Check in there sometime. There is barely a word about policy or even the President. It's all about calling out threads and complaining about other posters under the guise of supporting the President.

It's obnoxious (and rule-breaking like crazy, but I suspect the mods don't want to bother with the shitstorm that would descend were they to bother about it).

We don't need a flip-side of that sort of thing.

[xultar]

34. Your reply should be a thread all on its own.

[Prism]

35. I think it would cause unnecessary problems

If the mods were to crack down on that place, I think there would be a lot of turbulence. I'm sure they're aware of it and probably decided to leave it as a place to vent. Something that keeps the main forums a bit clearer of the poop-flinging that's already reaching high enough volume as it is.

I mean, practically every thread in there is against the rules, and I'd be hard pressed to see how the admins don't know all about it.

[demmiblue]

70. Wow... I am surprised.

The calling out and linking of threads IS obnoxious.

It looks nothing like the mission statement: The mission of the Barack Obama Group is to discuss this rising star in the Democratic Party and to share news and information about his life, career and political future. DUers who are supporters of Senator Obama for President, or have a positive view of the Senator and are open to an Obama candidacy in 2008 are welcome.

[xultar]

32. I think we should create a forum everytime people don't agree on shit. That way

we only speak to people who we agree with.

[xultar]

33. Will the people in the P/L forum like Obama or not?

[PufPuf23]

36. I like Obama nt

[xultar]

39. But he's not a Progressive or a Liberal. He is a centrist.

[PufPuf23]

43. Obama was much better than our other choices in 2008.

Plus Obama is intelligent and has worked to rehab the USA's international rep.

Personally I have been disappointed with some appointments and thought he would more forcefully represent those individuals most in trouble re: health and work / income.

[Ignis]

52. Who cares, as long as we tick the (D) box, right? (nt)

[xultar]

56. I don't care, just asking. Wanted to know. Nosey I guess.

[Ignis]

58. Oh, I'm not saying it's not a valid question...

But at the end of the day, most progressives on DU (whether they self-identify as Democrats or not) are overwhelmingly likely to vote for the (D) option over the (R) option on any given ballot.

So they'll probably vote for Obama, they probably won't like his policies and/or the execution thereof, and they'll probably bitch about it. That's unlikely to change unless Obama's policies shift to the left or a major left-wing third party is established, so why sweat it if you keep getting the votes?

[Vidar]

42. We don't need another dungeon.

[DireStrike]

44. If you want to split the two groups, the capitulators should get a forum to confine themselves to.

Not that you could keep people out of the other forums anyway.

[Quantess]

45. Arguing amongst Democrats is healthy and productive.

DU should only be for people who are at least somewhat progressive or liberal.

[PufPuf23]

53. The poll thus far -- 70% favor -- is cognitively

dissonant from the recs/unrecs.

This my first poll (and IIRC first OP) and was made in the spirit of good intentions.

[librechik]

60. DU IS a progressive forum. I have no idea why there are so many moderates here

all bitching about how extreme we are. I guess it's because we are so liberal we let them.

I wish they would go hang out at Democrats.com where they fit in better.

[ElboRuum]

67. So "moderates" can't have progressive views?

It's alarming that you think that.

[librechik]

71. I didn't say that, bridge dweller.

If they are "moderates with progressive views, they are obviously progressives.
Try some other variety of turd to throw at us, k?

[ElboRuum]

72. No, you actually did.

You essentially drew a line, and said moderates on this side, progressives on the other. A moderate is someone who can share some views with progressives, but can differ on others. If you meant something else, say conservative or corporatist, maybe you ought to define your terms better before you go insulting people by suggesting they'd be happier somewhere else. Or better yet, why not just choose another term which better expresses what you mean?

[librechik]

74. We differ on definitions. Peace be unto you and farewell.

[varelse]

61. Dedicating a sub-forum to discussion of DU's core values

Is that not a declaration of surrender to those who hold progressive values in contempt?

[Sebastian Doyle]

63. +1000

[hayu_lol]

64. If progressives want a forum for themselves...fine...

DU began as a Liberal site. Many of us are liberals here...we pretty much follow the publicly-stated Democratic Platform.

But, it goes without saying that there are massive differences of opinion and political desires between Liberal and Progressive goals and needs. To combine the two in one forum is asking for trouble.

[varelse]

66. I was unaware that there was that much daylight between Progressives and Liberals

Could you please elaborate on that a bit?

Edit to add: by "DU's core values" I meant the list included in the OP. In my view, all of the values therein listed enjoy fairly broad support from the members of DU; even as we argue heatedly about the "how", not many of us question the "why" of those values.

[madokie]

68. I'm all for it

looks like my rec at least got this back to treading water

[Umbral]

69. I thought DU was a a Progressive/Liberal Forum, send the centrist/DLC/moderates to the dungeon. nt