FDL warning to "pass anything" camp: Reforms Don’t Always Magically Get Fixed Over Time

[highplainsdem]

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/22/reforms-dont-always-magically-get-fixed-over-time/

By: Jon Walker Tuesday December 22, 2009 7:00 am

People in the “pass any bill, regardless how bad” camp often talk about “fixing it later.” They point to previous progressive change like social security, Medicare, and the civil rights legislation as proof that progressive reforms start small but grow into something better. This mantra is repeated as an article of faith, but it is not based on a true, dispassionate examination of history. For every progressive reform that slowly grew into something better, there is a counter example of reform efforts that, due to poor design, withered or died over the years.

Arianna Huffington uses the example of the badly designed “No Child Left Behind” program. It has turned into a disaster, but has remained unfixed for almost a decade. Rupert Russell, John Aravosis, and Atrios point to the example of welfare programs that were part of Johnson’s Great Society. It is hard to argue welfare has become better and more progressive over the decades. The parallels between welfare and this health care reform bill (both only help a rather small group of typically lower income Americans) is something to be seriously concerned about.

-snip-

Many are championing this bill as an imperfect step toward greater reform, and claim it is built on a strong foundation. Say what you will about the benefits of the bill, but I refuse to accept that funneling trillions of dollars, and forcing millions of new customers, into the private health insurance system that got us into this mess is a smart foundation.

A strong fear of mine is that this bill will only intertwine another powerful industry complex into our system of government. Like the military industrial complex, agricultural industrial complex, and now, possibly, the financial industrial complex, I fear the private health insurance industrial complex will begin feeding off the government tit and never let go. It will become another bloated industry that survives by extorting ever-greater amounts of money from the government in a vicious cycle of legalized corruption. I worry passing this bill will make it effectively impossible to ever rein in or eliminate this extremely wasteful industry. It will become another burden this country can’t afford to support.

[NJmaverick]

1. Only an intellectually dishonest person

would suggest anyone is expecting "magical" fixes. The article and the author are a joke.

[girl gone mad]

2. More ad hominem from "NJmaverick".

Will you ever submit a post with content?

[DJ13]

4. You're asking too much

lol

[gratuitous]

6. It has been alleged that one can't judge a book by its cover

But apparently one can dismiss an entire inconvenient article due to the use of one word in the headline to the article. I've heard that we're supposed to refer to it as "intellectual honesty."

[NJmaverick]

14. funny thing about trust or credibility

it only takes one incident to lose it. Opinion articles like these require credibility from the author. In this case the lead comment was all it took to lose it.

[gratuitous]

22. The word "magical" doesn't appear in the lead comment at all

Perhaps you're referring to the headline, which is usually not composed by the author? In which case, your vaunted intellectual honesty is taking another beating this week. You really should find another schtick, because this one has worn so thin, there's only one side to it anymore.

[NJmaverick]

23. "usually not composed by the author"? Are you seriously expecting me or anyone to buy this claim

face it the author messed up and no amount of spin can change that.

[NJmaverick]

7. it seems you don't have a clue what "ad hominem" means

as well as intellectual honesty.


It's ironic that a post that is LACKING in any content (well technically personal attacks do count as content, in her defense) that addresses the point (about people thinking that things will be fixed magically) is so blinded to their own serious short comings as to suggest that someone else's post is lacking in real content.

[enlightenment]

9. Yet that is precisely what you did, NJMaverick.

You attacked Hunter as a person - calling him intellectually dishonest and 'a joke'.

You did not address the content of the article in any way; you reacted to a single phrase in the title of the post.

Your post was an ad hominem attack, despite your rather pathetic attempt to deflect criticism away from yourself.

[NJmaverick]

15. So you saying it's OK to be intellectually dishonest, but it's not OK to point it out

got it.:crazy:

[rudy23]

13. In his defense, he's sellling a broken vaccum cleaner. nt

[Hissyspit]

10. Jon Walker has been doing excellent work on HCR.

[Donnachaidh]

11. Employer giving bonuses for trolling?

Or is it a set fee per post?

[NJmaverick]

17. .

[HuckleB]

16. +1

FDL has jumped the shark far too many times.

[NJmaverick]

19. If you are going to write opinion article with few facts all you have is credibility

and if you start off like that, you instantly lose your credibility.

[derby378]

3. Lest we forget...

...this corporation will take over the FDA and the FCC in the distant future:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru6p5NLXxvY

Just like the insurance companies have taken over "health care reform."

[gratuitous]

5. In addition to NCLB

Add in the "temporary" measure of "don't ask, don't tell," well into its 16th year blighting the United States. As labor and environmental advocates how those "side agreements" to NAFTA are coming along, the ones that were supposed to guarantee workers' rights and put some teeth into enforcement of environmental laws against industrial polluters. We were sold both of those programs with the promise that more would come later, but it was important and symbolic to Get Something Done Now.

Well, it's later. A lot later. And a lot of people have been dismissed from military service for nothing more than bigotry; workers have died for lack of workplace regulatory oversight; and people living around industrial polluters have been poisoned by their corporate neighbors. So I'm not particularly sanguine about the prospects of "fixing it later" when the people suffering due to the shortcomings of "reform" don't matter to the high and the mighty.

[StarfarerBill]

8. There have been more than a few recent policies...

(NAFTA, Don't Ask Don't Tell, Leave No Child Behind, etc.) which have yet to be "fixed", and instead only make worse the problems they were supposedly legislated to address. Why should we believe that this HCR legislation will be any different?

More than likely, Congress and the president will breathe a collective sigh of relief for having "done something" and go on to other corporate-benefiting business, leaving this to fester as well.

[amborin]

12. they can get Worse! subsidies to comply w/ mandates can be cut!

[jmowreader]

18. Arianna's supposed to be on our side, correct?

Then why in hell is she using NCLB as an example of reform? It was designed to destroy the public schools. It is destroying the public schools. Comparing a bill that's at least SUPPOSED to fix something--the HCR bill--with one Bush's minions intended to be disrupted is fallacious at best and sophistry at worst.

[HuckleB]

20. First, it's not a "pass anything camp," second...

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/down-memory-lane/

[FarLeftFist]

21. Yes, but we are all working towards a better future and society not just a better self-interest

One that will lay down the groundwork for generations to improve on. Breaking down barriers. Just as easy as it is to point to failed policies, it is as easy to point to successful ones.

[AuntPatsy]

24. I am honestly sorry but I find it strange that when they choose to pass issues such as going to war

which requires billions not millions of dollars and yet, it seem they don't need long periods of time to vote on those kind of issues?

I do realize that at this point, this bill needs to pass only because once it is in, amending it will become somewhat easier but I am tired of people saying they need more time, etc..etc..etc..there is no money etc. etc etc...and yet,

when it comes to war and or bailing out wallstreet the funds magicaly appear and the debating and voting time appears to be not a problem.

why is it, that when it comes to discussing issues that concern the citizens of this country they never seem to have the time and or the ability to finance such as health care for all the citizens in this country?

I am not buying what they are selling, not any longer but it does not mean that anyone other than a dem at this point would get my vote for presidency.