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Juicy and Tender, Seitan Is Quite Possibly the Best Fake Meat -- But There Is a Downside

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 05:36 AM
Original message
Juicy and Tender, Seitan Is Quite Possibly the Best Fake Meat -- But There Is a Downside
http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/144914/juicy_and_tender%2C_seitan_is_quite_possibly_the_best_fake_meat%3B_bad_news_is%2C_it%27s_made_from_gluten

Juicy and Tender, Seitan Is Quite Possibly the Best Fake Meat -- But There Is a Downside
By Anneli Rufus, AlterNet. Posted January 4, 2010.

Seitan is all the rage in vegan kitchens for its versatility and uncanny meatishness, but the bad news for some is that it's made of wheat gluten.

What if the next big thing to revolutionize the lives of vegans and vegetarians was waiting in the wings? What if this next big thing was amazingly high in protein, amazingly low in fat and carbs, relatively low in sodium, and cholesterol-free, yet with a taste and texture more like real meat than those of any other analogue ever devised? What if the next big thing was chewy and exuded meaty juices and sometimes even required a knife to cut?

Imagine, then, its power as a secret weapon to convert carnivores and to solace those guilt-ridden vegans and vegetarians who still dream of bacon, brisket, sloppy joes, beef Stroganoff, souvlaki, pepperoni, pigs-in-blankets, corned-beef hash and chicken drumsticks: things that tofu cannot replicate, not even with the best imagination in the world.

Tofu is not God's gift to herbivores, though this feels blasphemous to say. It's slippery. It rushes down the throat so bland and unobtrusive as to be the gastronomical equivalent of an apology. It's also made of soybeans. And while at least one recent Journal of the American Medical Association report credits soy foods with reducing the risk of death and recurrence among breast-cancer patients, soy still hasn't emerged unscathed from the wave of bad press that has blamed it, these last few years, for hormone imbalances and health problems ranging from thyroid dysfunction to Alzheimer's disease to gynecomastia, aka man-boobs. My doctor, an anti-big-pharma, pro-nutrition kind of guy, always rails against tofu because it's a processed food. And seriously: How much of whatever is essential about the soybean really reaches you once it has been soaked for sixteen-plus hours, ground, boiled repeatedly to make it into milk, mixed with coagulants, curdled and drained? The preferred coagulant among major tofu manufacturers is calcium sulfate, aka gypsum, which is the main ingredient in plaster-of-Paris.

Unlike tofu, the next big thing can be whipped up in any household kitchen rather easily, for super-cheap. I've made some of the next big thing myself. More on that later, but to construct a high-protein, low-fat pound of it cost me 98 cents.

The next big thing is not actually new. It's been around for over a thousand years, having been developed by Buddhist monks in Asia who already knew about tofu but sought other alternatives in accordance with the Mahaparinirvana Sutra, in which the Buddha tells the Bodhisattva Kashyapa: "Those who keep close company with me must not eat meat. Even if, in a gesture of faith, almsgivers provide them with meat, they must shrink from it as they would shrink from the flesh of their own children" — because, the Buddha asserted, "eating meat destroys the attitude of great compassion.” In China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan, the next big thing is ubiquitous, fashioned into astounding facsimiles such as mock duck and goose with stippled "skin."

- snip -

The bad news is that it's made of wheat gluten.

It's the next big thing and we will see a lot more of it, as word spreads about its versatility and uncanny meatishness. Yet millions of people, were they to taste even a mouthful of the next big thing, would become seriously sick. A coworker of mine, who like the rest of those millions is gluten-intolerant, would have diarrhea for days.

But more about the good news...

MORE

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. the next big thing? Seitan has been around these parts for a long time.
However, it is not a meat clone. I don't get the thing about trying to copy meat. Seitan has its own character- though I must admit you can make a mean Seitan Reuben sandwich. It doesn't taste like meat but it is delish.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
53. I'm guessing the author means the next big thing like tofu, which crossed over into the mainstream
as a meat alternative.

The purpose of seitan was to take the place of meat in cooking for the vegetarian subcultures in China and other parts of Asia. It's a textural thing, not a flavor comparison. I used wheat gluten in Chinese cooking long before I ever saw it in a natural foods store.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Mmmmm... seitan.
*drool*

I make what just might be the best seitan on earth. Series. Ask flvegan- I keep having to ship him big frozen boxes of it cross-country, it's so much better than the storebought stuff.
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JackintheGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. I'll bite (tee hee)
I've tried making seitan. It comes out awful, or at least flavorless. But I like the stuff I find out and about (there's a place here in Philly that makes the best seitan cheesesteak, for example). Admittedly, I haven't tried to make it in well over a year, but I have good reasons for this. So, what's your secret, if I may ask? You would have the undying affection of my 12 y.o. daughter.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. It's in the marinate. All in the marinate. Buy best quality tamari. And fresh scallions. And kombu
Edited on Mon Jan-04-10 10:06 AM by KittyWampus
And shitake mushrooms.

When I lived hand to mouth, I knew how to survive on beans and rice for economical reasons. And also being a macrobiotic vegetarian. That said, I never skimped on the tamari I used. And would take a trip to China town for the cheaper sea vegetables like kombu and dried shitakes.

Kombu and shitake mushrooms have the chemical we know as msg in it. It adds the umami taste.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. that sounds really good!
:-)
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
56. THIS
I've been there, and I'm forced to agree: Skip a meal if you must, but never skimp on good tamari. :)
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
67. A couple of different things.
1. I add some nutritional yeast to the dry mix.
2. Most recipes have you use a water-based wet mix. I use a mock-chicken broth instead, so there is already flavor rather than just what gets marinated in.
3. If I have time after I boil my cutlets I leave them covered in the broth in the fridge overnight. That helps to get them extra juicy.

That's for the typical boiled seitan, with a little practice your results will come out with a fairly strong resemblance to chicken. You could do a beef-like version, you'll do variations on that process for a denser texture, and of course use different seasonings. I also do baked seitan, which is much easier because you just do the wet and dry mix, combine them and then wrap the mixture in foil and bake it, instead of the kneading and boiling which tends to be a PITA but which produces the woodgrain-like "meaty" texture of a kneaded seitan. With the baked the texture tends to come out lighter and crumblier, so it's good for making a seitan to use in place of sausage, ground beef, etc.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
72. Where in Philly? n/t
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Craftsman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yes there is a down side, IT IS NOT REAL MEAT!!!!!!
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. That's an upside. n/t
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Craftsman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. No it isn't, nothing beats good meat
Particualrly my venison sausage mad with deer I hunted, hog I hunted, and fatty beef with garlic, onion, and pepper powder.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. Opinions vary. n/t
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Craftsman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. To quote a bumper sticker on my truck:
Edited on Mon Jan-04-10 12:29 PM by Craftsman
Veggies aren't food, they are what food eats.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. "Veggies aren't food"
You learn something new every day.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. We'll think about that while the worms eat your early fallen corpse due to colon cancer
arteriosclerosis
diverticulitis
congestive heart failure
liver disease
dementia
stroke

erectile dysfunction....

Suit yourself.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. Eating gluten was inflaming my intestines and putting me at risk for
intestinal cancer and lymphoma.

But eat as much gluten as you want. You're been warned.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #58
76. NO GINGER FOR YOU! You're [sic] been warned!
:rofl:
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
68. Here you go:
Edited on Mon Jan-04-10 04:41 PM by superduperfarleft


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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #68
79. *snarf*
:thumbsup:
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. I subscribed to Vegetarian Times for years and there were numerous recipes
which used wheat gluten, calling it just that. For one Thanksgiving, they had a fake turkey recipe that made the cover... However, after the pet food scare, I check the ingredients of any treats that I get for my dog to make sure that they don't contain any of that... :shrug:
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. The problem with that stuff was that it wasn't wheat gluten.
It was just regular flour with chemicals added to fool tests for protein content. Shouldn't be an ongoing issue because pet food manufacturers know to check for it now- all you need to do to tell flour from wheat gluten is mix it up with a bit of water- gluten will form something dense, flour will make wallpaper paste. Anyhow, there was never any risk of confusion in making mock meats, because flour won't work- you'll just get seasoned goop.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
41. Well, I still look for wheat gluten when I'm buying dog treats.
Since the pet food scare, I won't give anything containing it to my dog. One of my dogs was on prescription food, and the vet's said they'd call me if it was recalled, but I still cooked for both of my guys for months. I figured I couldn't be too careful. :scared:

Thanks for the information... :hi:
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
59. Lots of dogs have a problem with gluten. In the natural state, wheat isn't a part
of their diet.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #59
73. Thanks! That makes a lot of sense.
I've looked for it in everything I buy ever since the pet food scare. I've always checked ingredients, anyway, since I've adopted older dogs from rescue and two of them were prone to seizures. My little guy, in my sig pic, is only three, but he has a sensitive stomach, so I give him what his vet tells me, though he does get treats, too. But I've gotten accustomed to keeping it as natural as possible, always a good thing. :-)
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. The compound that was killing the pets is called melamine cyanurate
Please see this Wiki link for an explanation of what melamine cyanurate is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine_cyanurate

Obviously, melamine cyanurate is not wheat gluten.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-05-10 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #77
99. Thank you very much. And I do remember that...
But we were also warned about wheat gluten, still present in pet products, so I avoid anything containing it, for the dogs. :-(
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-05-10 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #99
103. I think you might do better to buy brands that refuse to use Chinese ingredients in their food.
The Chinese were mixing melamine into their flour to artificially boost the protein content but It doesn't have to mixed in with wheat gluten or flour. It could be mixed into just about anything, so maybe it would be more effective to make sure all ingredients in the pet food you buy are sourced in countries with higher standards and more stringent controls.

I definitely understand about wanting to take care of your babies. I feel the same way about my kittehs.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. And the world doesn't need to consume more gluten than it already does,
since up to 30% of people may be sensitive to it -- and the higher consumption levels in the last several decades seem to be linked to more and more people developing sensitivity.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. If you can't eat wheat, then don't eat this stuff
However, the vast majority of people out there can eat it with no problem whatsoever.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
30. That doesn't mean they can safely consume ever-increasing amounts of it.
Edited on Mon Jan-04-10 12:01 PM by pnwmom
As I said, increasing consumption is leading to higher percentages of people in the population having sensitivity to it -- which can increase the risk of other auto-immune diseases as well as cancer and even heart disease.

Also, just because you aren't sensitive to gluten today doesn't mean you will never develop a problem with it -- although it may take years to diagnose the problem, because the symptoms are so widely varied. Besides the expected gastrointestinal problems, there can be neurological problems, liver problems, and a host of auto-immune problems.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
50. A person can become sensitive to almost anything so it would be really stupid (and self-centered) to
say nobody should eat something because *you* have a problem with it.

I'm allergic to ginger. NO GINGER FOR ANYBODY. Just because you are not sensitive to ginger NOW does not mean you won't be sensitive to it in the future! You'll see! If production of ginger increases more people will end up sensitive to it and in the emergency room like I was!

See?
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. +1. n/t
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
74. OT: Ginger? Really?
I'm going to have to file that away in my list of funky allergies. ;)

Are there any related plants that you have to avoid as a result?
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Yeah. Ginger. Pretty weird huh? I had no idea till my face and then airways started swelling like
an airbag, and about that quick too!

I had a desert dish with a ginger sauce when we went out to eat about 6 years ago. My face started to feel strange when we were in the car but I had never had any allergies to anything at all so it never even crossed my mind. Shortly after we got home my face started to look quite a bit like this:



I went to the emergency room when the inside of my mouth started to follow suit. Good times.

NO GINGER FOR ANYONE - YOU WERE WARNED! :rofl:
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #75
85. Hey, who doesn't love a surprise?
:puffpiece:

But you're absolutely correct: Ginger is obviously a global evil that must be stopped!
Isn't it amusing that you never hear the same argument applied to milk, though, given the higher global percentage of successfully weaned--oops, I mean, lactose-intolerant--people. :D
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #50
82. Yes -- a couple of times I've posted recipes on DU
And someone will invariably pop up with "that ingredient (lentils, nuts, whatever) WOULD KILL ME!! THEN DON'T EAT IT I mean, hellloooo!
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. BEANS IS DEATH!
:eyes:

The fact that milk is never listed as a "killer ingredient" is also amusingly transparent, no?
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. A friend of mine is horribly allergic to rice. We should just nuke China now for her safety.
Anyhow, seitan is awesome, but plenty of people eat well as vegans without it. And there's no shortage of gluten-free vegan stuff around.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. Nuke China -- now you're talking.
For all but the wheat sensitive, seitan is way more versatile than soybean products as the "meaty" ingredient.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. And it's a less common allergy than soy.
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. Yes it is.
If milk is a killer ingredient, peanut butter is a WMD.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-05-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #86
102. Thank you!!
Cheese Wiz IMO should be a controlled substance....blech!! I used to have a friend who would stick the aerosol thing in his mouth like straight cheese wiz so disgusting.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
95. Anecdotal but
My mom developed a gluten intolerance a couple of years before pancreatic cancer. I would really like an epidemiologist to do a study on it to see if they are related.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. I used to make it back in the 70s
maybe once a month for use in stir fries. You do get the texture of meat and it is a high protein food, but it doesn't taste a thing like meat. It is also an incomplete protein that needs to be complemented by beans or dairy at another meal. I used it to get the full range of textures in some of the fancier stuff I produced.

A byproduct was the starchy water from the first rinsing. I'd let the starch and bran settle out, pour most of the water off, and then pour the starch into a half sheet pan and dry it in the oven. The result was the best bran flakes I've ever eaten.

Seitan is just one of those things that can be made cheaply at home to supply taste and texture as well as decent quality protein. It's especially valuable in transition diets, although hardly essential.

Just check to make sure none of your dinner guests has a wheat allergy when you decide to pull out all the stops and serve it.

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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. Mmmmmmm, hail Seitan.
:9

That and tempeh are two of the best things I've discovered since going vegetarian.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Agreed . . . if you want to try something REALLY tasty . . .
Go here:

http://www.vegieworld.com/

Their food is fantastic, most is made from seitan.

The "citrus spare ribs" are especially delicious if you toss them int he oven until they get just a tad blackened around the edges :).

My girlfriend introduced me to their food a few years ago. Very tasty stuff.

They also make vegetarian substitutes for tuna, chicken, etc.

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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
61. Thanks for this! Looks like some interesting options, especially the faux seafood.
:)
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
66. Thanks!
I've bookmarked that one. It looks like they have lots of yummy stuff. :9
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
11. Nutritious and delicious. Loves me some seitan.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. Seitan is not "made with" wheat gluten, it is wheat gluten.
It's also not new. For people who are not affected by wheat gluten (and wheat in general), which would be at least 70% of the population, this is not a "downside".
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. 70%?
And someone above says 30%. Which is it? I don't know anyone who has a problem with gluten. Am I living a sheltered life?
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. If "perhaps as many as 30%" are effected ...
... that would leave at least 70% that aren't. My grammar was confusing, sorry.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. why would vegans or vegetarians want to eat something that looked or tasted like meat?
wouldn't that be some ethical breech or something? I never undersood why people who don't eat meat would have stuff like veggie bugers and things that are kinda like meat, or remind them of meat products, but are not made with meat.

You'd think they'd want stuff that bore no resembelence, taste or look-wise, to meat.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. texture is a very important component to cooking and eating. Seitan has a particular texture
not found in many other foods.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
29. Because fake meat tastes good. And because it's often protein-high. n/t
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. Why? It's not that I hate meat,
it's that I hate the ecological devastation, suffering, and death that accompany its production. I don't see why replacing it with something meatlike is bad. :shrug:

I hear that question all the time, and it never made an iota of sense to me.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
60. it's not the taste of meat that we don't like
we don't like the death as well as the environmental and health issues that arise from eating meat/animal products.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
64. Because meat tastes good?
After all, that's the only reason omnivores eat it.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. Seitan is the best? It tastes awful.
Yes, I have had it at fancy vegan places (shudder). It sucks.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
17. It's peeeeeople! Seitan is peeeeople!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
19. Seitan is very, very easy to make.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
22. i'll stick with real meat, thank-you.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
70. Loves me some meat. n/t
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
24. I do love the texture of seitan, but prefer the nutrition of tofu.
Hopefully they'll be able to combine the two someday. :)
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happy_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Tofu is much better- you just need to know how to cook it
No one in their right mind eats it raw and slimy, this article is silly.

Baked tofu is fabulous, it can be fried, it can be frozen then crumbled, it can be mixed with melted chocolate chips to make a healthy dinner of chocolate pie...

Trader joes has herbed tofu which is just excellent, great consistency too. I am far away from TJs now, but I make my own tofu using calcium and nigari(magnesium) as a coagulant, then I add spices etc, bake it and use it for everything. It's great on a sandwich even.
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Thanks for the advice.
I've had tofu prepared dozens of ways over the past ten-plus years, both home-cooked and at restaurants.

I was just pointing out that I liked the denser, chewier consistency of seitan, but prefer tofu because of its superior nutritional value. Now if the nutrition of tofu could be combined with the texture of seitan...:)
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happy_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. superior nutritional value
I totally agree. Frozen tofu crumbled is chewy. Baked tofu is much denser. That's what I was talking about too. Everytime I have it in a restaurant-it is as described in this article for some reason. But this article is silly. They tell people tofu sucks, but then so does seitan. Not real helpful.

As someone said upthread, vegetarians need to eat complimentary proteins. If you eat wheat gluten, you still need something else like beans, nuts, dairy. Usually with tofu you are eating it with it's complimentary protein, rice, other grains, wheat etc. (not really directed at you-just in case anyone is interested)

Now tempeh has really excellent consistency, taste, and nutrition, superior to tofu and seitan.
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. I love tempeh too, and enjoy its flavor over both tofu and seitan.
:)

I'll admit that I prefer tofu fried over any other way of preparing it; getting it in Chinese and Thai restaurants is a real treat.

I've not prepared tofu, seitan, or tempeh at home since my last breakup; I tend not to cook very elaborately for myself. :)
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-05-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #43
104. Same here.
Eating alone? Rice and beans is fine.

Cooking for 2+? Let me get out about a dozen cookbooks...

:D
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. I knew people in Hawai'i who swore by "trash tofu"
not vegetarians, either, just people of Japanese descent. "Trash tofu" is apparently some sort of byproduct of making the familiar slippery kind, and it has texture!
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happy_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. that must be okara
hmmm I wonder how they eat it. You can add it to something like oats and make burgers, soy loaf etc.

Just throwing this out there for everyone...you can buy a soyajoy soymilk maker for $100 and make soymilk(or almond,rice) for pennies in the time it takes to make a pot of coffee. From there you can make several batches and make your own tofu by adding a coagulant which is calcium or magnesium, providing much needed minerals for vegans. They you have okara leftover which you can turn into other stuff- or give it to your chickens who will then be your best friends.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. Great info on the soymilk maker.
:thumbsup:
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
96. Cool info, thanks -- And welcome to DU! nt
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #45
54. It was probably okara, as mentioned below.
It's harder to find in the mainland, but it's damn tasty when fixed right. It doesn't cook quite like tofu, and it has a short shelf life, but it makes a mean veggie burger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okara_%28food%29
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. I can't eat gluten
it gives me GI distress and mood problems, plus a rash.

But it's good for those who can.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. It's good for those who can TODAY.
But tomorrow, or next year, they might find out they can't eat gluten anymore -- especially if they've been consuming large amounts in the meantime.
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diamidue Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. That's what happened to me.
Ate gluten with seemingly no problem all my life. Then, after a couple of meals high in gluten, all hell broke loose with my body. Once I corrected the problem, it helped clear up other health problems I had been having throughout my life. Now I know that gluten was the culprit behind them. I wish I had known earlier.

In Italy, they test children for gluten-intolerance. It is common there. In the USA there is no routine testing. A LOT of people in this country should not be eating gluten - they just don't know it yet.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. It is common everywhere among people of white European descent -- and far more
people have it and don't know about it than are actually diagnosed.

I had the same experience you had, except a different trigger (there are lots of potential triggers -- infections, pregnancy, etc.) So the doctor had had me go off gluten for G.I. symptoms, and suddenly all these other symptoms (fibromyalgia, restless legs, etc.,) all went away. Nothing could make me eat that stuff again.
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
32. Seitan so, Joe! Seitan so!
DISCLAIMER: I have no idea how the product is pronounced or the "upside/downside" as I have never heard of it until now- I just thought the subject line was funny.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. Just finished reading "Gluten: What You Don't Know Might Kill You"
Gluten: What You Don't Know Might Kill You
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/gluten-what-you-dont-know_b_379089.html

Worth reading!
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
83. My autistic daughter was on a gluten free diet for about a year
Unlike many she did not improve on it so we phased it out -- I've heard many autistic people do well on gluten and milk-free diets but I have to tell you IT'S NOT EASY!!! Especially with kids who like cereal, pasta, pizza, etc. There are a few good gf products out there to approximate that stuff but most of t them are awful.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
98. Important article, thank you for posting. nt
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
39. If You Want the Taste and Texture of Meat, You're Not a Vegan
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Explain.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. Really? Do tell.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. Typically brilliant.
Yeah, that was sarcasm.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
65. Well that was just fucking stupid. n/t
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
69. Oddly enough, I thought it was the animal exploitation and death that bothered me.
Thanks for clearing that up!
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #39
71. I'm a meat-eater and I call BS on this post.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
78. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read.
What the fuck does taste and texture have to do with anything?
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yewberry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
91. Do you have to get up early to come up with this stuff?
I just don't have the kind of time it must take to come up with bizarre nonsense. What's your secret?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
42. I had a good satan curry for christmas.
Doesn't match meat though.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
47. Great stuff: Cheap, nutritious, and easy to make.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
62. The seitan "chicken" at Horizons in Philadelphia is so toe-curlingly good.
Just thinking about it makes my mouth water, and I'm not even that much of a foodie.

I have to wonder, though, what the purpose was in including the "downside" part, though. I can't say I've ever seen an article saying "Milk is great tasting and good for you" with a part at the end (or in the headline) that says, "Unfortunately, the majority of the world's adult population is lactose intolerant to some degree."

But in a world of stupid and unfunny "plants feel pain" and "people for the eating of tasty animals" jokes, I guess I'll take what I can get.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #62
80. The pulled-seitan sandwich at the Palomino in Milwakuee is like that.
I'm an omnivore, and I've passed up my favorite meat dishes to have that on more than one occasion.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #80
97. I don't know how close you are to Chicago
But the Chicago Diner is all-vegetarian (mostly vegetarian) and fabulous. Chicago has some of the best vegan places I've ever seen next to New York or Toronto.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
81. Good reading while eating my Xmas summer sausage and Inglehoffer mustard
Note that I usually don't eat nasty things like this, but the mustard is beautiful stuff. I can't stop.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. Mmm, I love good mustard on my seitan.
It doesn't hold up well to a strong taste like Colman's, unfortunately. But some of the passion-fruit mustard I got in Hawaii last year goes lip-smackingly well on my sesame/teriyaki-marinated seitan roast.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. You need a good seitan salami for a strong mustard.
Now I'm thinking about making salami tonight.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-05-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #89
100. Yeah, most of the packaged ones suck.
I usually aim for a "chickeny" taste/texture with my seitan; do you have a salami recipe?
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-05-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. Yep. I'll PM you. nt
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #81
94. That mustard is insanely good. Now I want some.
And sausage, of course. :9

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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
84. Just heard about this stuff today.
http://www.gardein.com/products.php?t=fresh

Am gonna check it out very soon.
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