Consumers come out being more regulated than the industries in HCR

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

The industries still get anti-trust exemptions, they still don't negotiate drug prices, they still have age bias tier pricing, they still have annual limits, they still have rescission for all the same reasons, they still have profits (now enshrined into law.)

But the American citizen has more controls and constraints put on them then one could imagine, especially since we have maintained and strengthened a PRIVATE FOR PROFIT system. The citizen must buy, will be taxed, will be fined, will be mandated.

It is not Health CARE Reform --

it is Health CONSUMER reform

[AndyA]

1. HCR is a pretty clear example of who Congress serves.

I guess we'll have to see how much of the bad is taken out, and how much of the good is kept in for the final version. But it sure looks like the corporate dictators are getting what they want from their Congress. :puke:

[Stinky The Clown]

2. And at least half of DU is gleeful we got this.

On edit ..... I will be remiss if I don't add the de rigeur "We don't have it yet. It is still a bill."

[ixion]

3. yep, it's the Insurance Industry Profit Enshrinement Act

and nothing more. :argh: :grr:

[AzDar]

4. K & R

[mdmc]

5. we need some lobbyist

STAT

[stray cat]

6. Choose to opt out of health care for the duration of your life

The trouble without a mandate is that people will wait until they are sick to buy health insurance. Also, as a country we are obligated to treat people even without insurance and tax payers pay for that - the other option is to let people choose once to forego buying health insurance or seeking medical help; if they so choose there is no mandate for them but no treatment if they get ill either unless they show they can pay for it up front.

[laughingliberal]

10. A mandate to do business with the criminal insurance enterprises with no controls to speak of

on the industry is unacceptable. I understand the need for a mandate but there was a need to regulate the industry before serving the population up to them. Every regulation they supposedly put in the bill has a gaping loophole to offset it. The insurance industry continues on as they have for 20 years and we are ordered to suck it up and buy their product. For those who are young enough and are in a position to do so, their best bet for achieving health care without slaving their whole lives to pay for it is emigrate to a sane country.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. But job one is profit retention

In all of our peer nations that mandate insurance, it is a crime to profit from the delivery of basic health care services or insurance. Private profits and public mandates in one law is the unique and vile aspect of this 'reform'.
Also, I know lots of people who have health care, who do not use health insurance. The two terms are not interchangeable no matter how many times you try to make them synonyms they are not.
And the question of mandates is incomplete without noting that during his campaign Obama said mandates were not needed if the insurance was good, and that trying to fix health care by mandating health insurance purchase was like trying to fix homelessness with a law mandating that everyone has to buy a house. He was right about that then. Now he's wrong. Deeply wrong.
During the campaign he did not simply oppose mandates, he mocked and ridiculed the idea mercilessly.

[girl gone mad]

16. People can still wait until they are sick to buy insurance.

They'll just have to pay the fine, which will be much cheaper in many cases.

[Jackpine Radical]

18. I am absolutely for a mandate…

provided that the payments come out of a strongly graduated income tax, and the distributions are made from a single payer system. The latter need not be governmental; many European countries do well with true nonprofit, privately run, payment systems.

[depakid]

7. Wait'll people get a load of the so called "wellness" loophole

10 Pounds Overweight? Got High Cholesterol? It Could Cost You Big Unless the Dems Fix the Health Care Bill

http://www.alternet.org/politics/145038/10_pounds_overweight_got_high_cholesterol_it_could_cost_you_big_unless_the_dems_fix_the_health_care_bill

This bill alone could mobilize legions of people to go to the polls and vote for whichever party didn't do it, and I'm pretty sure Republicans won't be shy about reminding Americans who that is.

[flyarm]

9. or leagions of us Unions folks will stay home or put up$$ to challenge the current seat holders

that sign this bill..I will be one of many of those !

I will work very hard...very very hard...as i have for my entire adult lifetime for the Dem party.. to show these assholes who they work for!

Get ready for a Repub congress and senate...for decades! Count on that.

[laughingliberal]

11. Yep. That kind of does away with the whole thing of no discrimination over preexisting conditions

It also allows your employer access to your private health information which was protected under the HIPAA laws until Bush's last minute executive order allowing employers access to the information. Hell, who did they think we were trying to protect the information from if not our employers? I am shocked that reversing that order wasn't done soon after President Obama took office. Instead, it stands and now is the basis for another hit on the American people in the health care reform bill. And, yet, we see Democrats defending it.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

14. A friend started a new job with new benefits and was looking over the package when I happened

to be there. In the packet was something about filling out a "wellness profile" online and that she might get "valuable discounts" if she filled this thing out. "Valuable discounts" for WHAT wasn't spelled out.

It wouldn't be her rates, since she is part of a group and the rates are what they are.

My friend is healthy yet overweight. I told her that I wouldn't fill out the survey for all the tea in China. I said they are just looking for a club to hit either you or your employer with later. Sorry, I believe that. If they just wanted to offer "valuable discounts" for gym memberships, membership in the Lettuce of the Month Club, etc. - NOTHING prevents them from doing that without the "wellness profile"

[laughingliberal]

15. These will start to be required once the bill passes.

They will charge those who don't meet 'targets' more for their premiums.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

17. whichis depakids point in post #7.

We ain't seen nothin yet.

[laughingliberal]

19. Yep. And a couple of us have been talking about this for a few weeks

The crowd that thinks this bill will be a great start has been strangely silent on this part of it. It is unfathomable that I hear little outcry from the progressive community. Not only is it a loophole to allow higher premiums for those with preexisting conditions but it is a huge hit on privacy rights.

[invictus]

8. K&R

[slipslidingaway]

13. knr nt