Haiti as the 51st state.

[Old and In the Way]

would this be a good thing or a bad thing for the people of Haiti? They're a helluva lot closer to the US than Hawaii and they've had an important impact on our development as a country.

Obviously, it would be their decision, but would you support a referendum on this issue? I would. Given their almost 3rd world status before the earthquake, I can't imagine that life will be better there anytime soon. Becoming a state with the full rights enjoyed by our present 50 would bring them longterm economic benefits that would probably never materialize by maintaining their independence.

Am I a lackey colonialist or is there merit in this association?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Maybe they don't want to be a state. We can't just take somebody else's country.

[Old and In the Way]

6. Gee, I did state that it would have to be a democratic referendum.

Just like Hawaii or Alaska. The point is...would you support a vote and would you support Haiti as the 51st state?

[Leopolds Ghost]

78. This whole premise disturbs me. Not just OP's question but some of the arrogant & racist responses

No offense to OAITW since he probably didn't mean it that way but that is the way people are responding.

Yeah, the general consensus on this thread is,

"No, let's NOT invade and annex Haiti at the "request" of a few natives like we did Hawaii,

BECAUSE... because we can't afford to Raise those Deadbeats out of Poverty. Fuck them, That's why not."

And this is a so-called LIBERAL blog.

White Man's Burden, anyone?

Am I the first person on the thread to even MENTION "White Mans Burden" or the Monroe Doctrine here?

OK, so maybe if our history weren't littered with racist expansionism and interventionism people would
be more willing to be annexed into a growing US Empire. EVEN CANADA doesn't want to be annexed by the
US and that might actually make SENSE.

It would help save the environment since Canada's current gov't
just withdrew from the Kyoto accords in order to strip-mine the entire province of Alberta for oil.

OAITW, "progressive" people innocently asked the same thing about MEXICO in the 1840s.

"Since we invaded them and their economy is fucked, why simply annex territory?
Why not make them a state, they would benefit!"

Oh, and OAITW, please, how can you NOT KNOW the story of Haiti in a nutshell, from Toussaint to Aristide?

JESUS CHRIST people get a grip and read a book.

[Leopolds Ghost]

86. Again I ask, why the only objection people have is "they're too backward" to conquer & assimilate?

Gee, do you think maybe just the fuck they WANT TO MAINTAIN THEIR INDEPENDENCE AND NOT BE COLONIZED again?

[Leopolds Ghost]

89. Why not make Iraq the 52nd state?

The mural behind him "WELCOMES VIETNAM AS OUR 51st STATE!"

[vadawg]

2. why stop at haiti, why not the DR, or costa rica, or mexico,

hell why not every country in the western hemisphere, im not sure how this would work of even if the voters in the US would ever agree to taking on the unification..

[Luciferous]

61. +1 We can't fix everything for everyone

[TheWraith]

3. What would it hurt to offer them the choice?

After all, if they say "Thanks but no thanks," nobody is worse off for it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. As well intentioned as this is, I am betting they would say NO

[Old and In the Way]

10. I'm betting yes.

tens of thousands had already voted by taking to leaking boats to get to America. But maybe there's a real value to being abjectly poor and free of US interference.

[vadawg]

15. question is they might vote yes, but would the States vote yes

i doubt it, why have more competition for aid and federal dollars, why inherit haiti's basketcase..

[Old and In the Way]

16. Fair question...but I'm asking DUer's what they think.

I suspect that you are correct - a majority of States will never let this be considered. Get them over the immediate hump so we can get back to forgetting about them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. You underestimate

national pride.

You really do.

[Old and In the Way]

32. Perhaps, but I'll take your response as a no.

We won't give Haitians an opportunity to make that decision themselves.

[IntravenousDemilo]

29. It smacks of imperialism.

And Manifest Destiny is dead, dead, dead.

As for Alaska and Hawaii, I don't think anyone was asked originally if they wanted to be Americans. Alaska became a US territory by being purchased from the Russians (many of us in Canada think it should be ours, but that's another story), and Hawaii was conquered. No referendums in either place, except for statehood referendums, but I don't count those; AK and HI are a different case from Haiti because the former two were already US territories.

I wonder why Americans honestly believe that everyone wants to be a citizen of the US of A.

[Jennicut]

We did practically cause their poverty in recent years. We owe them help at the very least.

But maybe they don't want to be under US or anyone's rule.

[sharesunited]

5. No they are a basket case. Aid and self respect first. Why has PR gone its own way?

[provis99]

7. It would be the 53rd state, not 51st.

Canada and Israel are already the 51st and 52nd.

[HeresyLives]

11. When did Canada become an American state???

[BunkerHill24]

19. Canada 51st state? You are such ignorant demented imbecile

on edit: Are you serious? I have to ask?

[HeresyLives]

21. I assume he's joking.

Man, you'd have 'socialist medicine' and Dem presidents forever if that were true. :rofl:

[BunkerHill24]

27. lol...That was something out off Freeper-World..wasn't it?

RETARDATION :rofl:

[HeresyLives]

30. LOL certainly made me choke on my coffee! /nt

[IntravenousDemilo]

35. If Stephen Harper had his way, I'm sure that would almost be likely...

... but only under Republican administrations.

[BunkerHill24]

44. Steven Harper enjoys minority government...he's on a leash

But maybe you would want to vote for him, over there at Freeper-world?

on edit: Mr. Harper is far from Republican now....he's now the only current ruler in Canada. He has dismissed the Parliament until further notice.

[IntravenousDemilo]

74. Yes, I know, I live in Canada. Harper doesn't enjoy minority government that much.

He'd much rather have a majority so that he can fuck up Canada completely. Harper is Republican Lite. He is on record as having been ashamed of Canada for not getting involved in the Iraq misadventure.

He has not dismissed Parliament until further notice, though. He "persuaded" the Governor General to prorogue Parliament until 3 March. Though he would not admit it, the reason he did that was so that his government wouldn't have to face the commission (now dissolved) investigating whether the government had ordered prisoners of war turned over to Afghan authorities, where they were subsequently tortured. If they knew these people would be tortured and still turned them over, that would constitute a war crime.

He has to go. Thank goodness his proroguing Parliament has led to Conservative free-fall in the polls.

[Xenotime]

79. What he really means is that we support them more than we should.

[aquart]

26. Sarah Palin couldn't have made a dumber remark.

Congratulations.

[Canuckistanian]

42. Some Canadians have also made that assertion

But I'm not one of them. We have a healthy distrust for American foreign policy antics.

Plus, we think most Americans are nutz.

[WillyT]

8. I Thought Puerto Rico Was Next... Or Was It Washington D.C. ???

:evilgrin:

[virgogal]

39. Guam!

[malaise]

9. Have you had a look at Puerto Rico recently

Leave Haiti inn peace. The USA has already contributed enough to it's impoverishment

[Old and In the Way]

14. So, no vote for letting them decide?

cool.

[timeforpeace]

12. As long as it's a Caribbean island, I can live with Puerto Rico or Haiti. Or Cuber for that matter.

USVI's need some love too.

[BunkerHill24]

13. Haiti is helluva closer than Israel ...so why not 51st state status?

[stray cat]

17. I know alot of people who want green cards or visas

I thought most DUers were against H1 visas and workers taking jobs - but Haitians would be ok?

[Old and In the Way]

23. Do we need H1 visa's to move between states?

That concern goes away if Haiti becomes the 51st state. I would think the economic development that would happen in Haiti would probably stop the migration out of Haiti.

[Texasgal]

20. BAD

Haitians don't want to be Americans, they want to be HATIANS.

We offer them as much help as needed, get them back on their feet and let THEM decide what's best.

[Old and In the Way]

25. So, no referendum to let them decide, right?

I wonder how us Americans ever grew this country from 13 colonies...

[Texasgal]

31. Maybe..

I just think American involvement with something like this is no good. I belive that Hatians need to set their own standards.

Perhaps I didn't understand what you were saying. If not mea culpa. :)

On edit: I am reminded of Hawaii, natives want to split from the union.

[Old and In the Way]

36. Interesting point.

"I am reminded of Hawaii, natives want to split from the union." I haven't seen any polls on this and I suspect that the typical native Hawaiian is much better off than the typical Haitian. But I wonder...if Hawaii would revoke their status as the 49th state, how that would impact on the general welfare of Hawaii? How would that impact their local economy? Part of the reason that people go to Hawaii has to be because it is, in fact, a part of the United States.

[Texasgal]

38. I don't have a poll

however, it's been a widely held notion that Hawaii wants to split. I am kinda surprised you don't know that.

Wait: here's a link

http://hawaii-nation.org/

Honestly? I want to go to Hawaii because it's BEAUTIFUL, not because it's part of the US... never gave it a thought actually. :shrug:

[Old and In the Way]

54. Well, lets take a poll to see if Native Americans want out of the Union.

Now, that's a poor analogy because obviously native Americans are spread through all 50 States and while they have a legacy unmatched by us immigrants, thats not going to happen. And I truly doubt that a referendum to exit US statehood would pass by the vast majority of the citizens of Hawaii...do you?

[Texasgal]

56. we are talking about Hawaii

which is MUCH smaller in population that the lower 48's.

Seeing that Hawaii is condensed and more inhabited by natives I am having hard time trying to figure out why you are not getting that???

I never said that Hawaii has a referendum to exit, the natives WANT one, I never said it was in the "works". :shrug:

[winyanstaz]

71. It would if the Natives had a say....but Hawaii Natives did not have a say...

In fact...the majority of the Natives there say Hawaii was stolen by the Whites and forced into being a state..without their agreement to the matter.
They had a Queen that was overthrown by the plantation owners...
If you dont believe me...ask the Natives..

[Neecy]

88. 49th?

Hawaii is the 50th State.

[unabelladonna]

45. OK, i'll bite

you're being disingenuous. you know it's a bad idea for the obvious reasons and most citizens of the US would go ballistic. the US is not alone in turning haiti into a basket case, france began the downward spiral by "selling" haiti to the haitians 200 years ago. unfortunately, haiti never had a castro.

[BunkerHill24]

37. The idea of 51st is of economic and preferential treatment, that's all.

Mind you, the Truman/Marshall doctrine in the 40's was not about nations Turkey and Greece becoming 51st state either.

[LLStarks]

22. This idea has bad news written all over. This is a crisis that we don't want to inherit. nt

[aquart]

24. How arrogant.

What blisteringly bloody condescending nerve.

[Old and In the Way]

28. hehehe

Yeah, the nerve of me asking if we should let the people of Haiti decide if they want to become part of this country. We obviously are better suited to make that choice for them.

[Mike Nelson]

33. I would support it -- AND...

Pat Robertson could be appointed "Good Will Ambassador"!

[unabelladonna]

34. what would that accomplish

educate me.

[Old and In the Way]

43. Well, a lot actually.

They'd get a boatload more money to bring their country up to US standards. Like a lot of small, rural states...they'd get more money than they contribute, at least initially. But their educational system would improve. They'd get more tourism as the 51st state. Building standards would improve. A reduction in corruption. The same expectations all Americans expect as being part of the US.

I doubt we, as Americans, would continue to allow Haiti to be the 3rd world slum it is now (before the earthquake) if they were to become the 51st state. Our consciousness of Haiti's plight would be altered in a way that it never will as long as they remain adrift to fend for themselves.

[vadawg]

48. okay then what, do we pick another country and make them the 52nd state

how long before we get the mouse that roared just to become the 53rd state etc etc etc...

[Old and In the Way]

58. Don't know..depends on the circumstances.

The last state was admitted in 1959, 51 years ago. Haiti seems to about the size of Connecticut...so it's not really a territorial conquest I'm suggesting. In fact, I suspect it would be a net loss for the Union on a strictly economic/raw material exploitation basis. This is strictly a humanitarian gesture. I'm not interested in picking nations to join the US, but Haiti is within a few hundred miles of the continental US and seems to be on the verge of imploding into anarchy. A 'Lord of the Flies" situation, if you will. All I'm suggesting is that 6 months from now we'll be on to other things and Haiti will be continue to quietly devolve.

Again, my point is...would you give Haitians the opportunity to consider joining the US of A?

[unabelladonna]

49. at the risk of being called every name in the book

how would your idea benefit the US. you know the average citizen...

[Old and In the Way]

63. Good point....

I honestly see more benefit for Haiti than the citizens of the current 50 states. It's like when I give money to various causes, I really don't do a cost/benefit analysis to see how this helps me. I see no personal benefit for myself...that doesn't mean I don't support the idea of allowing Haitians the opportunity to consider the proposition.

[Harry Monroe]

40. Your intentions are noble, but naive.

Besides, they don't have anything the U.S. wants. Oil, for instance. :sarcasm:

[Old and In the Way]

47. True that!

I've been called a lot worse. I'm kind of surprised at the majority of responses. Most here don't seem to even want Haitians to even have the opportunity to consider the idea of joining the Union. I guess we have more in common with Rush then we realized...

[vadawg]

53. nothing of the sort, i think the point you seem to be missing is why should they get a vote

shouldnt it be up to the states to vote and then make an offer to them, if this came to pass then im sure people would have no problems with giving them the chance to vote yay or nay...

[Old and In the Way]

72. I need to research the mechanism for bringing new states into the union.

I don't believe this is like a Constitutional amendment that's voted on State by State. I believe it's an act of Congress to ratify a Bill, but it doesn't seem very clear how the process works.-

From the Constitution-

- New States

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

Section 4 - Republican government

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

----

While States have a say in any new States created within the boundaries of existing States, I don't see a Constitutional role for each State to vote on the decision to include a territory not already part of the existing Union. It appears to be a federal act.

[KharmaTrain]

97. A Couple Of Thoughts...

The Haitians I know are very proud people...and the three things their most proud about is their culture, their religion and their independence. As we've seen with problems of assimilation of Haitians (as well as a lot of discrimination), sadly they are too black and too "alien" (speaking French). To get a statehood ammendment through the Senate would require 67 votes...and with today's GOOP, good luck in getting one.

I'd like to see the nation turned into a tax-free zone...a place that can compete with tourism and manufacturing. With few natural resources...other than lovely beaches and a lot of willing workers, a little investment there could go a long way. It's just giving them the chance and not becoming landlords or overlords.

These people have been on the dark side of history...and it also means an effort from its neighbors and other nations in the hemisphere. It's time the US stopped looking at other nation's as weak and or exploitable. Toward that end, I'd strongly favor the nation's debts be wiped off the books...especially with the IMF and tax incentives for American businesses to invest. If we're gonna offshore, I'd rather see the money go there.

Cheers...

[Ter]

41. Who says the US would want it?

In all honesty, it would hurt our economy badly to give them what we give all the other 50 states. It's too poor and would take billions to richen it up (if that's a word).

[HipChick]

46. The British just recently took back Turks and Caicos

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/aug/14/turks-caicos-islands-corruption-allegations

[vadawg]

51. yup and i seem to remember the feeling on DU was that it was colonialism again

i actually have no problem with the British replacing the locals in order to root out the corruption etc, but in Haiti's case i guess the french have more of a position than the US to incorporate Haiti..

[notesdev]

50. Well, Haiti IS flat broke and in horrendous debt

I guess they'd fit right in!

[kwassa]

52. I thought Cancun and Punta Cana were the 51st and 52nd states.

Haven't we annexed them?

[Robb]

57. Only the strategically important nude beaches. nt

[Truthiness Inspector]

55. Why?

Why is it our responsibility to save the world, yet be castigated and vilified for trying to save the world?

[jdp349]

59. Why would the States want to bring them into the Union?

they have absolutely nothing to offer the other 50 states. They would just be dead weight.

[XemaSab]

60. It would create jobs in the mainland US

just getting the place rebuilt.

Better the US rebuild the place than China rebuild the place.

[jdp349]

64. The Federal government would have to pay for it

and in that case why not just spend the money on improving infrastructure in the 50 states that way taxpayers can keep what they paid for.

[Old and In the Way]

69. No problem...cut defense spending by 20%

$120BB. Money found.

[jdp349]

80. But we know that won't happen

so why even bother suggesting it.

Additionally, most defense contracts go to American companies who employ a significant number of workers, your just shifting the allocation around, the economic impact would be minimal to none existent.

[Old and In the Way]

62. OK, so the general consensus here is' 'no fucking way'

There's no value here for us and we know (even if they don't) that they don't want to join our crappy union.

Cool.

[kestrel91316]

65. No merit whatsoever. Haiti is a free country. And besides, we have

little in common with them historically and culturally. Well, maybe they are more like the former French aras in the US, but still. I find the idea offensive and I'm sure most Haitians would too.

Can we say "paternalistic"????

[Old and In the Way]

68. Ah, but you are speaking for the Haitians when you decide that they don't want

to have the option of a referendum? How many Haitians have you polled on the idea? I am simply asking if the posters here would entertain the idea of giving Haitians the opportunity to join the union. Seems thats a bridge too far.

[Leopolds Ghost]

91. How much do you know about Haitian history, or Haitian feelings toward US intervention?

We tried to eliminate Haitian President Aristide under Clinton, remember?

[Vogon_Glory]

84. So Let The Haitians Vote On It

So if the Haitian people decided that they'd be better off being a US Commonwealth or a US territory (Or a state, after some of their major-player thugs got long, long-overdue justice and retro-active tax audits), let them vote on it in a referendum

While I oppose annexation for my own selfish reasons, I do point out that Haiti has a LOT more in common with the USA than Hawaii did back when McKinley annexed it to the USA over 100 years ago.

[Vogon_Glory]

85. So Let The Haitians Vote On It

So if the Haitian people decided that they'd be better off being a US Commonwealth or a US territory (Or a state, after some of their major-player thugs got long, long-overdue justice and retro-active tax audits), let them vote on it in a referendum

While I oppose annexation for my own selfish reasons, I do point out that Haiti has a LOT more in common with the USA than Hawaii did back when McKinley annexed it to the USA over 100 years ago.

[ddeclue]

66. They want to be their own country.

[Old and In the Way]

70. Hard to argue with that fact.

You speak for all Haitians? Or just the majority?

[ddeclue]

95. Just every Haitian I've ever met while living in Florida.

[-..__...]

67. And members here wonder why...

"progressives" don't do better in elections.

Amazing... simply amazing.

:eyes:

[Vogon_Glory]

73. At the Risk of Being Offensive

At the risk of being offensive, there IS something to be said for law and order, security of persons and of personal property (homes, bicycles, automobiles) and a basic minimal infrastructure. Many European colonialist regimes DID offer those features to their colonized areas.

Many of us also are aware of the other features--a capricious, often-arbitrary local and regional government often doing things for the benefit of the metropole, not the governed territory, plus the usual colonial oppression.

Some places, alas, just don't seem to be able to reach take-off. Even Saddam Hussein's vile regime and some of the former Soviet republics do (or did) offer protection against the sort of chaos present in pre-earthquake Haiti. Does anyone SERIOUSLY believe that Haiti or Somalia are roaring successes as self-government?

Personally, I think that annexation as a US territory would be the best thing for the Haitian people, followed with infrastructure rebuilding, law and order, and vigorous prosecution not only of street gangs, but the ruling cliques that turned it into the Golgotha it is today.

However, as an American taxpayer, I'm much cooler to the idea and I'm not sure that the Haitians would go for it.

[okie]

76. Do you believe Haiti was "self governing" in any meaningful sense?

nt

[Vogon_Glory]

82. No, I Don't Believe that Haiti Was Self-Governing--And Here's Why

No, I don’t believe that Haiti was self-governing in any meaningful sense—but that doesn’t mean that I believe the usual gen-u-ine true-believer’s usual spiel that Haiti is a mess entirely because of American imperialism and that nefarious American imperialist forces are keeping Haiti in its collapsed-state of affairs to benefit the American empire blah, blah, blah…

Seriously, I think that Haiti has been largely self-governing after the Dubya-backed coup, if for no other reason Dubya’s Duck Soup Posse wasn’t willing to put the time and investment that Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover were willing to put into it during the last (blatantly neo-colonialist) long-term occupation.
Furthermore, colonialist regimes like things orderly. That’s not just to make things ducky for United Fruit and sugar plantation owners inside Haiti, but because the disorder spreads over borders.

Still, Haiti’s plight does raise troubling questions. The 1920’s neo-colonialist intervention did create a more orderly Haiti, a Haiti with long-overdue improvements and infrastructure, even if that infrastructure and the law-and-order was done for the benefit of the neo-colonizers and the local elite. The current UN occupation, on the other hand, hadn’t done all that much to improve Haiti’s infrastructure even before the earthquake, but it hasn’t done much to break the power of the criminal gangs that control so much of the country. So, how far do you intervene to re-establish a functioning nation-state? Do you allow a lawless, stateless chaos to continue?

[okie]

98. tough questions

No serious person has claimed Haiti's troubles can be attributed entirely to American Empire. France, for example, threatened invasion if the Haitians did not compensate them for the cost of Haiti's freedom. The country was locked into crippling debt from the time of the original devil's pact.

I also disagree with the idea that Haiti has been largely self governing since the 2004 coup. I think very little governing has been going on at all. Rene Preval may be the elected president, but he has no real influence. What's more, the Fanmi Lavalas party has been crushed with backing of UN "peacekeepers", and the few mild reforms won during Aristide's tenure have been rolled back. Lavalas members have been persecuted and even killed. And the UN force has done little to stop the criminals from carrying out these acts because they are collaborators. To talk of self governance when once-powerful political movements are violently suppressed makes no sense at all.

As for Haiti's future, I agree that things look quite bleak. One of the reasons Aristide was toppled was because he had the temerity to demand reparations from France. Wouldn't be a bad start, far as I'm concerned. But real freedom for Haitians will come when the exploitative structures of the global economy are dismantled. When countries like Haiti are not seen as sources for cheap labor and testing grounds for neoliberal structural adjustment. I don't wish to sound glib here, or like I'm spouting platitudes. These changes are obviously very big and complicated (involving many more players than the US and Haiti), and difficult to seriously address in short paragraphs on internet forums. But it would be wrong to look to the 1920's for answers here.

[okie]

75. Doesn't work that way.

Our real designs for the Haitians are quite clear.

http://socialistworker.org/2010/01/14/catastrophe-haiti

"First the Bush administration and now the Obama administration have used the coup and social and natural crises to expand the U.S.'s neoliberal economic plans.

Under Obama, the U.S. has granted Haiti $1.2 billion in debt relief, but it hasn't canceled all of Haiti's debt--the country still pays huge sums to the Inter-American Development Bank. The debt relief is classic window-dressing for Obama's real Haiti policy, which is the same old Haiti policy.

In close collaboration with the new UN Special Envoy to Haiti, former President Bill Clinton, Obama has pushed for an economic program familiar to much of the rest of the Caribbean--tourism, textile sweatshops and weakening of state control of the economy through privatization and deregulation."

...

"Amidst the Suffering, Crisis in Haiti Offers Opportunities to the U.S" - Heritage Foundation

[pipi_k]

77. I would say yes if it meant we'd see...

Voodoo spread and become the national religion of the US


:7

[Imajika]

81. How about Somalia next?

What other failed, 3rd would countries would you like to add to the union?

Why on earth would Americans want to shell out the enormous amounts of cash it would take to bring Haiti even up the standards of our poorest, most backward states in the union.

Yeah, just no.

[Vogon_Glory]

87. Somalia too culturally dissimilar, so I'd vote no. n/t

[Octafish]

83. Statehood would be good for Haiti.

The large majority of people of Haiti love democracy. Like most everything else in their lives, they've enjoyed so very little of it. The nation's elite, however, can't stand the thought of sharing what they got with the poor -- who, literally, have nothing.

As a Puerto Rican, I am very aware how the angry reich in the US promotes the idea that Haitians (as in the case of statehood for Puerto Rico) speak French (Spanish) and thus would never fit in to the "American mainstream." The bigots also would promote the idea that "these people" aren't ready for the duties and responsibilities of citizenship (unaware, for the large part, that Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens by birth) and would be little more than a burden on the U.S. taxpayer. Remember how Patrick Buchanan howled when the issue came up for PR in the 90s? In addition to issues concerning racism, is the political leadership of the United States ready to stand up and change public perceptions to accept a new region into the union?

Haiti statehood would be a mixed blessing for the USA at first. After "assimilation," it weould be a total blessing -- serving to enrich and evolve modern civilization. Unfortunately, that costs money and power. As in Haiti, America's elite is loathe to give up any of either.

[Vogon_Glory]

90. Think of The 2012 Campaign Opportunities!

Think of the 2012 campaign opportunities! The Wassila Diva (the Republican Party's Presidential nominee for that year) could stand with her back to the sea at Cap Haitian and say "I can see Cuba from here!"

[hunter]

92. Wal-Mart could force the minimum wage even lower and hire them as employees.

I'll bet we could break the farmworker unions too!

:sarcasm:

[Leopolds Ghost]

93. Referendum Results: "I for one welcome our new US overlords." BTW isn't Banda Aceh the 51st state?

After all, we "bailed THEM out of a disaster" recently.

Or at least that's how SOME people on this thread see it...

[MellowDem]

94. It's an interesting idea...

somewhat similar to the idea of the EU, which has been expanding for a while now to third world nations of Europe in an effort to help them industrialize. Of course, no one views it as imperialism when the EU does it. And the dilemma over whether Turkey should be allowed in raises many of the same questions that people have raised on here.

The bigger idea it points towards is greater integration among nations, to the point of giving up some soviegrnty to a third party (the EU for example) or simply becoming part of another country but still having some local autonomy (statehood). Is more integration good for the world? Many conservatives are scared shitless of such an idea, as it confirms their fears of a "one world government". I think that the EU in general is a great idea, and if the EU one day becomes in essence a nation of its own, I think that would be good as well in all honesty.

The constant mantra of "independance" is a left over from the end of thy days of imperialism. The truth is, in the world we live in, we don't need more stridently independent, nationalisic and "proud" nations that live in third world status and can contribute nothing to solving the many problems of the world. Nor do we need giant "superpower" behemoths whose interests they are able to expand at will through exploitation and economic imperialism. So making Haiti part of the US, for example, would solve both problems.

What we need is unity. I guess the question is whether such worldwide unity is possible or just a utopian dream. Trying to pursue such impossible dreams can be quite dangerous, just look at Communism.

[donritchie]

96. I wrote a blog advocating this

Check it out:

http://donritchie.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/the-united-states-should-annex-haiti-as-the-51st-state/

[Matariki]

99. Haitians beat Napoleon's army and threw off slavery to become an INDEPENDENT NATION

Please read some history of Haiti. It is incredibly interesting and very interconnected to US history - as well as European and West African history.

Once you've done that, you will understand why Haitians rightly have incredible National pride in their country and history - and you will realize how insulting Haitians would find your suggestion.