Howard Dean: "It's going to be a hard November for Democrats. Our base is demoralized."

[highplainsdem]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/01/16/us/politics/AP-US-Angry-America-Analysis.html

Analysis: Senate Race Underscores Voter Anger

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 16, 2010
Filed at 4:20 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The ill winds of an angry electorate are blowing against Democrats, the warning signs clear in a closer-than-expected Massachusetts Senate race that may doom President Barack Obama's health care agenda and foreshadow the party's midterm election prospects.

Anti-incumbent, antiestablishment sentiment is rampant. Independents are leaving Obama. Republicans are energized. Democrats are subdued. And none of that bodes well for the party in power.

''It's going to be a hard November for Democrats,'' Howard Dean, the Democratic Party chairman in 2006 and 2008 elections when the party took control of the White House and Congress, told The Associated Press in an interview. ''Our base is demoralized.''

While he praised Obama as a good president, Dean said the Democrat hasn't turned out to be the ''change agent'' the party thought it elected, and voters who supported Democrats in back-to-back elections now are turned off. Said Dean: ''They really thought the revolution was at hand but it wasn't, and now they're getting the back of the hand.''

Just how much voters have soured since Obama took office -- and took over a country in chaos -- is reflected in the president's late-game decision to rush to Massachusetts on Sunday to try to stave off an extraordinary Republican upset in the race for a Senate seat Democrats have held for more than half a century.

-snip-

[Tansy_Gold]

1. So, Howie, get out there and remoralize us! n/t

[lapfog_1]

10. The party powers that be

have let it be known that Howard isn't wanted anywhere near an election campaign. Personal payback from the DLC dems (Rahm especially).

[laughingliberal]

14. I know. Guess they only wanted Blue Dog candidates recruited by Rahm to win

and I still think these big majorities Dean got them were a bit inconvenient. Too many contortions to go through while moving rightward. But I have noticed some progress in the HCR negotiations the past week and nary a peep out of the Chief of Insulting the Left. Wonder if they've moved a little left due to the MA race?

[Marr]

41. Couldn't agree more. They didn't want big majorities.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

21. Exactly. He got the same back of the hand the rest of us got

Even more horrible in light of the work he put in. I agree that Gov. Dean is way too progressive for the likes of the DLC Obama administration.

[Usrename]

180. Dean should organize a run for himself as an independent.

That would shake things up. hehehe...

[defendandprotect]

229. Some Dems ... may legitimately be thinking of walking away from the party??

Dean has never yet seemed to suggest that he would?

[Name removed]

274. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

276. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

230. LOOK at what they did to Byron Dorgan . . . "negotiation" -- and he was

also going to work on getting Glass-Steagall reinstated!!!

What else did they do to him -- I'm tired . . . there was something else/????

Cartel?

[Demeter]

125. He's a Doctor, Not a Magician!

Sorry Tansy, but you asked for it!

[jasi2006]

184. Keep saying the base is "demoralized" and it will be.

I may not like a lot of things but I sure as hell am not "demoralized." Obama took over a hell-hole of a nation. I will give him at least half the time Bush and the neocons had to screw it up!

[seeinfweggos]

192. that's the purpose

[bobbolink]

202. So, you speak for everyone.

[defendandprotect]

231. You can refuse to read what people are saying to you at DU in post after post . . .

you can continue in denial -- but others are not going to --

"The base is demoralized" and all Dean is doing is acknowledging and confirming that --

This is just more FEAR-based thinking --

Read for yourself -- and then acknowledge what you're reading.

Wake up!

[Kweli4Real]

280. You Know ...

I keep reading and hearing that us democrats are demoralized; but it always seems to be coming from the same places ... DU and HD. Are we so insecure and accustomed to powerlessness that we take ourselves out of the game?

I hope that people recognize that every comment like this from opinion leaders like Dean weakens the democrat party and emboldens the opposition ... the republican party certainly does.

[suzie]

290. Replaying the primaries?

The people with the most posts on every thread about Obama are the ones who never supported him to begin with and have a candidate they fantasize could win in 2012.

Somehow, among the Democrats that I know, Kucinich cultists are not the base.

[leveymg]

273. That's like saying people catch the flu by uttering the word "Influenza"

Rejoin the reality-based community, please.

[Kweli4Real]

282. No it's not ...

It's like telling a vulnerable person that they are worthless or their condition is their fault. If you repeat it enough, guess what they will come to believe?

[The Hope Mobile]

278. But he has to be doing things that will improve the situation and

time after time he has chosen not to. That's not going to change, unfortunately. If you want real change, you take steps in that direction, not repeat the steps of your predecessors. Sorry, doesn't add up.

[Kweli4Real]

283. Why do I ...

see so many republican talking points on Democratic Underground? To suggest that PRESIDENT OBAMA has accomplished nothing to improve on the previous 8 years is complete and utter BS! PRESIDENT OBAMA may not have done what some of you would have wanted him to do, when you would have wanted him to do it, but if republicans can acknowledge PRESIDENT OBAMA's successes why can't we?

[dotymed]

286. Probably because

most of those "successes" have benefited the R party...

[ixion]

2. Yep...

I am one of those demoralized voters.

[BeFree]

3. So

Teabaggers are winning? Just f'n great.

[mdmc]

4. My morale would improve if I felt better

My knees, right elbow, and right calf muscle are in excruciating pain. I've been saving up for some medical treatment..

[Jamastiene]

Same here.

I've been sick as a dog for a while now. If I had any real hope for health care, I could have my thyroid checked and wouldn't have to just suffer from possible hypothyroidism. I could also have my back looked at and figure out why 3 disks are out of line (according the chiropractor my mother paid for as a birthday present). I could also get something going for what appears to be extreme arthritis building in my knees and wrists.

As it stands now, I must embrace my pain and keep going. Yes, morale is VERY low here.

[ooglymoogly]

189. Please read above post.

I have found voltaren to be a near miracle, particularly for arthritic pain.

[tango-tee]

247. I can understand that.

Just going through my first bout of arthritis, hoping to get the proper medication that won't send me running (well, limping) to the bathroom every half an hour.

[ooglymoogly]

186. If you have access to a dr. See if you can get

a prescription for Voltaren gel. preferably over the phone so it does not cost to much. Unfortunately it is $29 for 100mgs but that is a big tube and you might find it cheaper on the net. If you ask the Dr. he might have samples. You will be amazed at its pain alleviation. Good luck and I hope you feel better.

[ooglymoogly]

194. sorry wrong place

[lib2DaBone]

221. Healing Vibes sent to ya MDMC.. I know what you are going thru....

I hope you see some relief...

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

5. "now they're getting the back of the hand" - pretty strong stuff Dean is saying

Good! He's right.

"The base is demoralized". Really, not just a bunch of whiny purists? I doubt that Gov. Howard Dean, former immensely successful head of the DNC who engineered those historic wins has any idea or grasp of what he is talking about.

[MattSh]

275. So...

who the hell is the head of the DNC right now anyway?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who draws a blank on this question. The position might as well be empty, for all the good news he/she is generating...

.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

277. Tim Kaine.

Your observation that it "might as well be empty" is correct.

[laughingliberal]

6. A damned shame Dean isn't still orchestrating wins for us as chair of DNC

but maybe he can rally the troops for some campaigns this fall.

[defendandprotect]

246. Right . . . I think the "demoralization" was clear at DU -- and I trust Howard Dean's analysis ....!

[BeyondGeography]

7. Yeah, thanks

:dunce:

[golddigger]

8. The damn liberals are going

to take down the party!

:sarcasm:

[laughingliberal]

12. Heh! nt

[defendandprotect]

248. Maybe we should find out whose party it really is? Corporate or "people's"--???

[NJmaverick]

9. I'd be more impressed if Dean was in MA helping with that critical race

[PassingFair]

13. Yeah, why shouldn't he knock himself out for a bunch of ingrates?

Send Rahm, I'm sure he'll be able to rally the base.

:eyes:

[ProSense]

18. He's starting to sound bitter.

Why the hell is he coming out with this message right before a crucial election?

Why isn't he out rallying voters?

[highplainsdem]

25. Not "bitter" - disappointed. And for the reason given there.

Obama did not turn out to be the "change agent" the party thought it elected.

[depakid]

30. He built the party back up from the shambles- only to have the same corporate clowns tear it down

again.

As I said back in January and February, it's a damn good thing (both for Dean and the rest of us) that he had nothing to do with this administration.

The writing was on the wall even then.

[NJmaverick]

44. His build up included adding a large percentage of blue dogs

[depakid]

51. That was Rahm's "strategy"- to recruit & pack the party with backstabbing blue dogs

Need to get your facts straight on that.

DFA had (and has) another mission entirely. Could be one reason why Obama and Rahm dumped it.

That decision ain't workin' out so well either, it seems.

[NJmaverick]

68. There were parts of the nation where Blue Dogs are the only dems that can win

part of the 50 state strategy.

[Mojorabbit]

169. And where progressives could

have won but instead the party went and found conservatives to run and squashed the progressive(see many Florida races)

[flyarm]

173. I guess you don't know anything about my state of Fla do you?

where so many of our great dems, progressive and liberal dems get jack shit from the party..no help no $$ no nothing but bad mouthed and shit upon..but the repubs that run as fake dems..get all the $$$ and support they can handle..

Me thinks you have no clue what you are talking about ..when you say there are parts of the nation where only blye dogs can win..we keep having these shit candidates shoved in our faces..and told vote for them or else..it is all we are given!

I have seen some of the most incredible Dems get shit all over by the DNC and DLC and The FDP..so please spare us the lecture about Blue Dogs..that is all the dem party gives us here in Fla...they shit on any other dem!

Oh and PS..they know they are repubs that have changed registration right before primaries that run against our incredible dems!!..and bingo these repubs get all the dem money and the real dems..nada.

[tsuki]

182. And if a couple of progressive run, the Democratic Representatives

endorse the Republicon candidates.

[flyarm]

191. absolutely!! and someone here keeps saying that Dem registration has gone up in Fla..well no shit

sherlock..a huge number of our "so called dems" were all Repigs before dems..they flipped parties to run against our dems in primaries..and ran against our dems in generals and got all dem party money..

We have almost nothing but phony dems running in our party now in Fla!..and they get all the big bucks from the dem party..hell the leader of our party was taking big bucks from a big Repig party corp!

All local dems know this..and all "real dem candidates " can't get jack shit in $$ from the dem party or the DLC..it is all a scam!

Our Dem party has been so infiltrated by repigs and run by the big corps and big $$ of both party leaders!

[defendandprotect]

249. Rahm/DLC has been breeding and supporting Blue Dogs . . . !!!

Even to run against liberals/progressive Dem incumbents!!

[flyarm]

256. +1!!! eom

[Leopolds Ghost]

268. Does he have a license for that puppy mill? Someone call Rescue Ink!

[defendandprotect]

292. Better yet -- let's put Rahm and DLC poison out of business in Dem Party . . .

[Leopolds Ghost]

267. Because sadly theyre a shell party being propped up by the overclass to provide illusion of choice

That's why sites like this are called Democratic UNDERGROUND because they were started with the goal of trying to reclaim the Party from its status as a "loyal opposition party" to the unelected permanent government overclass which former Republican Michael Lind first described.

[newspeak]

104. hear, hear!!!!

It was Dean who organized the Democratic Party--and I saw the writing on the wall after Obama was elected when Dean no longer was DNC chair and was not given a position in Obama's administration. Dean re-organized the party-and after victory, the DLC'ers basically said "thanks, we'll take it from here." Now who said "between a repuke and repuke lite, the base will pick the repuke"? If Dean gets in any race, I'm voting for him.

[bvar22]

111. That was Harry Truman.

"When given a choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time."

The "Centrist" Obama administration is damned determined to prove Truman right. (again)


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[janet118]

243. Dean used to quote Truman a lot. . .

My favorite: "I don't give 'em hell. I tell the truth and they think it's hell."

Dr. Dean is an honest man. There's a limit to the amount of abuse progressives must take from this administration and Congress without yelling, "Foul!" I'm sick of watching them kiss up to the likes of Lieberman and Olympia Snowe and telling us to eat dirt. G. W. Bush was a stupid man, but he wasn't stupid enough to bitch slap his base. The Republicans walk all over Obama and yet it's the progressives who have to beg for crumbs. We, the people they represent, are invisible to those making the rules. And, heaven forbid, we complain about it.

I live in Massachusetts. It's hard to convince liberals to get out and vote when they feel dissed by the people they vote for. Scott Brown is a male version of Sarah Palin. The bigots, morans and tea baggers love him. They are fired up. I'll vote for Coakley. She ran a lousy campaign. She listened to her hack advisers who figured that, at 30 points ahead, she didn't need to fire up the base or to have debates or shake hands at subway stations. She just needed money and endorsements. And look where she is now. Maybe she should have listened to Dr. Dean instead of the hacks. I hope we dodge a bullet this time, but if we don't it's not Dean's fault.

Right now, I've used up all my "fired up." I am disheartened because, after all my work, I still feel voiceless in my own party. You can be certain that many of the people who were told to be silent about the bogus health care reform bill will also become silent at the polls. If Democrats don't wise up by November, we are in for a mega-bloodbath. Governor Patrick may be the next victim in my state. Who's going down in your state?

[Jim Sagle]

208. It's working out VERY well for THEM; for us, not so much.

They get corporate cash to police the base. Winning elections is not even in their job description.

[defendandprotect]

235. This is a purposeful tearing down of the Dem Party and many here don't get it -- !!!

They didn't kill JFK and leave a "people's" government standing to set things right!

They didn't kill JFK and then decide to leave the Democratic Party to create liberal,

progressive activist solutions to our problems!!

Nor either one to properly investigage right wing political violence in America!

And we moved from that to total election steals by computers ---

Not only the computers we vote on -- but the LARGE computers used by corporate press which

gave them additional powers to PREDICT and CALL elections -- and PREDICT and CALL winners --

even Presidential candidates!

Previous to the computers they could ONLY report actual official vote totals --

What we saw in 2000 was Fox/John Ellis simply REVERSING those new powers!!!


Coincidentally, these computers began to come in just about the time America was psssing

The Voting Rights Act!!

I'd question every election back to Nixon/Humphrey!

[Leopolds Ghost]

269. JFK died after he tried to nationalize the Federal Reserve and end the VN war.

Just saying. :shrug:

[ProSense]

32. Disappointed?

Obama is getting things done that haven't been accomplished in decades, if ever, and not just health care. Dean doesn't sound disappointed, he sounds bitter. The whole kill the bill crap was nonsense. His health care bill in 2004 was extremely lousy.

[freddie mertz]

62. What you call "bitter," others call "the truth." And Dean should know...

It's not like he is some novice where the electorate is concerned.

He helmed the DNC to back-to-back Dem victories in 2006 and 2008.

What he sees is what you apparently cannot bring yourself to see:

The DLC strategy, which so heartily endorse endorse and energetically promote, is killing us this year.

[ProSense]

69. "He helmed the DNC to back-to-back Dem victories in 2006 and 2008."

Yeah, the Senators who have been elected since than who everyone is complaining about now.

[freddie mertz]

75. They have lost their way this year. nt.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

96. And why isn't he leaning on Nelson and other blue dogs or even

Lieberman? He is not helping at all here and is trying to hurt us.

He sounds like he's reading off DU.

[freddie mertz]

138. Attack the messenger and plug up your ears. Hear only what you want to hear.

That is the path to disaster.

Even the WH seems to be getting the message, however long it took to sink in.

Time to open your eyes.

[scarletwoman]

165. In what capacity do you expect Dean to "lean" on those senators?

He's not a Senator, he's not head of the DNC anymore, he holds no elected office, he has no position in the Obama administration. How is he supposed to accomplish this "leaning"?

Dean isn't hurting us, he's giving a WARNING.

[defendandprotect]

236. Why wasn't Obama and Dem leadership "leaning" on Nelson/DLC/Blue Dog Dems?????

and Lieberman --- ??????????????????????

Basically Obama was doing everything they could to bend over backwards to COMPROMISE

with them!!!

Are you kidding??

[sendero]

160. LOL...

... LIKE FUCKING WHAT? This I gotta hear.

[laughingliberal]

216. We now return you to the regularly scheduled programming. nt

[CANDO]

226. Getting things done!

On what planet do you reside? Oh sure, you can probably send me a seemingly long list of what amounts to nothing. What I'm really seeing not getting done are "REAL" HCR, No Employee Free Choice Act, No repeal of DADT, No repeal of DOMA, Still in Iraq, Jacked up Afghanistan, no curtailing all the unconstitutional shit Bushco was doing, Gitmo is still humming along quite nicely. Not a damned thing done as of yet to rein in Wall Street, no true jobs bill to really put people to work (remember WPA and CCC?), those programs worked btw. Sorry if I'm not on the sycophant bandwagon. I'm not the one who coined and campaigned on the phrases "Change we can believe in" and "Yes We Can". I made the mistake of taking him on his word. And quite frankly, it's the whole god damned corporate DLC shills who are in cahoots also.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

45. Maybe he just habitually tells the truth and can't stop himself?

Maybe he has this weird habit of treating voters/citizens like adults? Maybe he just calls it the way he sees it?

Why isn't he out rallying voters? - Perhaps because he has no official role and the Rahmbians would prefer to pretend he doesn't exist? Remember how they DIDN"T EVEN INVITE HIM when Obama announced Kaine as his new DNC leader? Howard has been told in no uncertain terms to STFU just like the rest of the liberals while the DLC types move in to show us how it's done.

What they've shown us is how to LOSE momentum,trust,and races faster than any human being would have considered possible while revitalizing a Republican Party all but considered dead for generations.

***************************************
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/21/AR2009012103474.html

Dean Resigns; Kaine Is Now DNC Chair

By Perry Bacon Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 22, 2009
skip
And when President Obama and Kaine held an event this month to announce Kaine's appointment, Dean was in American Samoa, finishing his visits to every state and U.S. territory. He was not invited to the event, and some DNC members said privately that they were not happy with the Obama's team treatment of him.
*****************************************

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/dean-absent-as-obama-introduces-his-pick-for-dnc-chairman/
January 8, 2009, 4:58 pm
Dean Absent as Obama Introduces His Pick for D.N.C. Chairman
By ADAM NAGOURNEY

skip

But Mr. Obama’s aides have always been a tad miffed at what they saw as the chairman’s supporters, in the days after the election, claiming some credit for one of the signature efforts of the Obama campaign: Expanding the map of states where Mr. Obama competed, fighting in like Indiana and North Carolina (and Virginia) which had been viewed as solidly Republican. One of Mr. Dean’s main efforts as chairman was to the so-called 50-state strategy, as he pressed for money and people to be sent to all 50 states.

Further, Mr. Obama’s first appointment as president-elect was Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois as his chief-of-staff. As head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Mr. Emanuel and Mr. Dean warred – loudly and publicly – over Mr. Dean’s 50-state strategy, with Mr. Emanuel arguing that Mr. Dean should be using money to help him win seats that were genuinely in play.

Politics being politics, none of that history stopped Mr. Obama from suggesting, straight-faced, that Mr. Emanuel and Mr. Dean had worked together in 2006, as he offered his tribute to the outgoing chairman.

“He launched a 50-state strategy that made Democrats competitive in places they had not been in years, working with my chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, to give Democrats a majority in the House for the first time in over a decade,” Mr. Obama said.
***************************************************************

Honestly, if anyone has a right to be bitter, it's Howard Dean.

[PassingFair]

49. Tut, tut, can't have THAT! n/t

[ProSense]

56. Truth?

From the OP:

While he praised Obama as a good president, Dean said the Democrat hasn't turned out to be the ''change agent'' the party thought it elected, and voters who supported Democrats in back-to-back elections now are turned off.

Which Democrats, the onces that have been elected since 2006? The one's he and other are complaining about?

Obama has produced more change than all of them combined. In fact, he has already produced more change than any President in recent history.

[amborin]

65. which Dems are disappointed? Many, many Dems! Disappointed & disgusted, both

[leeroysphitz]

81. What are talking about?

My life is no different, better or worse, than it was under Bush and I don't personally know of a single other average citizen that could honestly say otherwise.

So if this administration has been such a singularly strong proponent of such massive and unheard of CHANGE then when will it be trickling down to the rest of us?

Feh.

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Sagle]

209. Your relationship with truth is fleeting at most.

It's a concept you encountered once and swore to avoid forever.

[Jamastiene]

59. Dean really does seem like a pathological truth teller.

Politicians hate him for that too...and it shows.

[harkadog]

119. Many DU posters hate him for the same reason.

[laughingliberal]

219. +1 nt

[laughingliberal]

218. +1 nt

[suzie]

291. Gee, I thought Dean sounded like every other politician, taking this

opportunity to congratulate himself on the job that he did as DNC chair in the elections of 2006 and 2008, and criticizing those currently in charge.

Sounds like politics as usual, not any exceptional "truth telling".

[wuvuj]

298. When truth is considered a pathology....

...you've become a Repug?

[treestar]

98. With these, he has made himself an outsider for good

He may as well quit the party.

[Go2Peace]

124. do you realize how much you sound like a partisan of the Putin (Russia) form?

I really wish you folks that want to put down any alternative opinion or expression would understand what you are really engaging in. Democracy not only needs, but demands that we all have the freedom to express alternative views and that we engage them, not look to throw those out who don't follow the line.

The REAL problem is that our President is not strong on LEADING and poor on listening to others within his party. You guys keep trying to critisize every horse that is out of place, when instead you should be motivating your "herd". You just don't get it.

The Republican party has unity, not primarily because they enforce it (which they do because it is their nature), but because their party represents their views (as wrong as those views are). They don't force their sheep to follow, they lead their sheep and their sheep feel like their leadership represents them.

Democrats, because we have different values, can't lead the same way they do, dishonestly, but our leaders still need to do the same thing. But instead they are relying on their partisans to go out and spin and try to push everyone to "toe the line". That won't work.

For a President and Congress to LEAD in a party like the Democratic Party, they have to INSPIRE, LISTEN, and embrace actions in a way that makes people feel included. That is just the way a more open thinking party like the Democratic party works.

You guys instead want to try and turn the party into a similar model to the Republicans. If it does work, you will have gutted and destroyed the very nature of the party and it's history. Don't you understand that yet?

[ima_sinnic]

161. wow, you really DON'T want everybody's vote

and you and your ilk yap about "purists"--sheesh, only the "DLC corruptists" are welcome now.
feh. you can have it.

[laughingliberal]

220. Yes, I'm sure he'll be interested in your opinion on that

Please do write Dr. Dean and let him know his fate is decided.

[Leopolds Ghost]

265. Yes, please don't throw us in that Briar Patch.

Dunno WHAT I'd do if Dean forced out and became an independent.

[ima_sinnic]

270. +1000

I know what I'D do

[highplainsdem]

148. +1

[Leopolds Ghost]

264. Tim Kaine, who LOST the VA Governorship by making FORMER DNC chair Terry DLC his heir apparent.

[Raineyb]

72. Because they don't want him around.

The DLC has made it abundantly clear that the don't want him around (Although they will take credit for his achievements) and now you want him to go back out there and get the back of their hand again?

You cannot be for real.

[Leopolds Ghost]

266. I said this when Dean got essentially fired and everyone ganged up on us "negative nelly naysayers"

Said not to worry, it was a natural transition, VA was a lock and Obama had to reward Kaine, Dean and Obama were tight, Rahm and Dean might not like each other but Obama would unify the party and play off both of them FDR -stylr. this was all part of the plan.

[Go2Peace]

113. Give me a break.. He has done a miraculous job and mostly stayed beside even when he was in serious

disagreement. Prosense, I know it is difficult for you to take a stand other than slamming anyone who does not "toe the party line", but can't you at least refrain from this kind of criticism of Dean. For all his faults he is pretty much the best when it comes to Democratic politics, and he is a party player in the best sense of the word.

[Dinger]

116. Primaries Are Over

Over like a sonofabitch.

[paulk]

121. "bitter"

the new meme

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

281. Or an old one.

[saracat]

123. You all just love that word. As though it means anything. Howard did

a huge amount to ensure an Obama win and negotiated on his behalf at the convention and has been treated like garbage because Rahm didn't like him. He is publicly called irrelevant and useless and you want him to contribute his worthless and irrelevent help NOW? Perhaps if they had listened to him when it counted we wouldn't be in this fix.And this was a way of rallying voters. Perhaps if the voters know what went wrong they can rally to fix it! And BTW, just in case you didn't notice, Howard is no longer responsible to 'rally the troops' as he no ,longer has an official position. That job is Obama's.Lets see how he does. And for all our sakes, I hope he does well.

[butterfly77]

224. That seems to be all Dems do now..

and some love to go on television and advertise our game plans,and tell Repubs how to play their little games with Dems,but of course we all know that a lot of so call Dems are really RepubliCONS...

[liberation]

240. ... so you guys threw him under the bus

and now you are wondering why he is not there doing the foot work for the party that stabbed him in the back?


I think there were plantation owners with less sense of entitlement, good grief. I assume at this point the DLC types fully expect the liberal base to bend over, take it, and pay for the screw. And Dean is not even that left really (moderate/centrist at best).

Seriously, after throwing liberals and a big chunk of the base under the bus, you guys are really surprised the base ain't showing up in droves to vote? Really? I just hope you the DLC types are being facetious, because if they ain't they are dumber than a bag of rocks. Why doesn't the DLC go and rally up the moderate conservative voters you guys like so much?

LOL

[sabrina 1]

253. No, he sounds realistic. The person who is bitter is the one

who demoralized the base by telling them to STFU. The same one who accomplished the same thing for the Clinton administration.

Keep fooling yourself. But Dean is right and as long as the party listens to the DLC, and keeps moving to the right, this will be the result.

The majority of Americans don't like the idea of being told 'we need you at election time, we need you to donate, then just STFU until the next election'. If you can't grasp that, YOU are part of the problem and will be responsible for a Republican majority, because of your state of denial, rather than being realistic, tackling the problem and start working to bring back the base.

I know who I will be blaming if we get a Republican majority, and it won't be the base.

[Mithreal]

262. flamebait

[NJmaverick]

23. I thought we were all in this to make our nation better

when did it become about personal glory or gratification?

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PassingFair]

53. Who said anything about "glory" or "gratification"?

It's about "representation".

Not bought off figure heads.

[HughMoran]

128. Are you suggesting not voting for Coakley because she's a "bought off figure head"?

??

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freddie mertz]

63. Even if you belive that to be so, it's clear that the current DLC strategy is NOT accomplishing that

Obama did NOT run as a DLC-style candidate, but he has governed as a DLC-style president.

And it is killing us as the polls.

Dean does NOT want us to lose in 2010.

But he is warning us that we will, if this keeps up.

[highplainsdem]

114. +1

[Zenlitened]

203. Another clumsy reading from the Little Red Book.

:rofl:

You just really are NOT good at this!

[Mithreal]

263. Better for whom?

[treestar]

92. Good point!

What the hell is he doing? :wtf:

[firedupdem]

103. +1...if he cares so much for the party that is exactly what he would

be doing. I guess they would rather have a teabagger in office to make the president out to be some kind of failure. Ridiculous!

[grahamhgreen]

252. Democratic principals are more important than corrupt party members.

[Umbral]

204. There's that 'back hand' again. nt

[roguevalley]

232. he might be and probably is. he is the only dem that I trust completely

[grahamhgreen]

251. WE DONT WANT THIS CRAPSURANCE BILL TO PASS!!!!

[PassingFair]

11. Can someone from Massachusetts tell me how they wound up with a candidate like Coakley?

It's not like no one knew that Kennedy had
a BRAIN TUMOR or anything...why wasn't his
replacement in the wings? Why didn't another
Kennedy step in?

What is Coakley's baggage, that she can be
whipped by a 'puke in Massachusetts?

[MadHound]

15. Well, it certainly doesn't help at this point in time

That she had a large fundraiser that included health insurance corporations and Big Pharma. Nothing like coming into the middle of the HCR debate with I HEART THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY tattooed on her ass:shrug:

[laughingliberal]

225. Yeah, nothing like the insurance catel and PhRMA to rally the base

against you.

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Her Baggage Is That She's A Standard-Issue Democrat

She was the best of a mediocre field in the primaries.

Many of us in MA have totally given up on the Democratic Party in the past few weeks since the primary - for me it was Obama's astonishing lie that he never campaigned on a public option which caused me to realize that there's no hope in simply picking Dems who suck less than the Republican.

Normally she'd be ahead by a mile, but many of us may be choosing to sit this one out.

[PassingFair]

34. Did the local party engineer her candidacy?

Didn't Kennedy think to anoint a successor?

[MannyGoldstein]

39. I Don't Think So, On Both Questions nt

[PassingFair]

48. WTF?

There's really no excuse for that.

It's not like he died in a plane crash...
everybody knew his death was imminent.

Did the PTB just ASSUME that ANY
Democrat could coast into his seat
and allow the safest, bought politico
to represent you, and by extension, me?

[karynnj]

67. So you are arguing for Kennedy or the party making the choice

rather than the Democrats of Massachusetts? The fact is that most key state Democrats stayed neutral. Bill Clinton endorsed Coakley, who had been an early supporter of Hillary Clinton - as were most MA state officials, unlike the Senators. However, Coakley was far ahead when endorsed by Clinton.

[PassingFair]

79. An endorsement would have been nice.

The Clinton endorsement tells me all I
need to know about Coakley.

[karynnj]

84. That was simply pay back

For the MA politicians, it might have been that they had been allies with more than one of the candidates. (For Kerry, there is the special circumstance that he would work closely with whichever Democrat became a Senator. He did though do his only HCR town hall with Capuano in Somerville on September 2. This may have been planned before Kennedy's death, but that seems pretty far in advance.)

To show you how badly the media distorted the town halls, you might ask why this excellent town hall, where Kerry actually was able to hush people booing a teabagger asking a question - and then destroyed the question with a good answer, got no coverage - but ones showing chaos or the obnoxious teabaggers drowning out the legislators were on heavy rotation. Here is a link from people, friends from DU JK, who taped it on their own - http://www.jkmediasource.org/node/183 Capuano's elderly mom was there and was one of the people Kerry thanked at the beginning for being there.

[PassingFair]

86. Good to know that "simple pay back" has *ucked up that election.

Politics as usual.

Usual results for Democrats.

:crazy:

[karynnj]

141. I don't know if any of the others would have faired better

I am not from MA, but the MA people here have spoken of the inchoate anger in the electorate. In MA, where almost all elected officials at any level are Democrats, any Democrat may have been attacked.

By the election, many in MA who dislike Coakley may be faced with what I suspected I could face in 2008. I really did not want HRC for President, but she was inevitable - everyone said. However, Bush then vetoed the extension of SCHIP. I knew at that moment that if she were the nominee, I would phone bank and vote for her. Any Republican would have vetoed that bill, while any Democrat would sign it. Contrary to Nader, there is a difference in the parties.

[laughingliberal]

227. It does seem odd he did not express a preference

Seems a show of support from him ahead of time would have gone a long way in electing a candidate.

[DFW]

66. Please do NOT sit this one out

I was talking to Helen Thomas about this election last night, and although Coakley may not be anywhere near the
ideal replacement for Ted Kennedy (like anyone could be), look who is trying to take that seat on the Republican
side for Pete's sake! Helen was appalled that the voters of Massachusetts could even come close to letting this
happen, and I think she is right. If Coakley wins, we have a full legislative year to try and get stuff done. If
not, the Republicans have their 41st vote to stall, stall, stall, and then be able to blame the Democrats for not
overcoming their stalling. This election is too important to sit out.

[PassingFair]

73. Progressives I know NEVER "sit it out", DFW...

However, we WILL not FUND these DLC-backed
candidates nor will we go door to door for
them.

We won't swing the needed independent votes
with our pleas to our co-workers and friends
and family members like we do for Progressive
candidates.

Just sayin'....but the DLC will blame us
anyway, for their lousy PHARMA-controlled
candidates losing elections.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[suzie]

213. Is this stuff written by 11 year olds?

"Onward to single payer"?

In what fantasy world do these folks live in where handing as many elected offices as possible over to Republicans will result in single payer legislation?

[farmbo]

279. Ouch! Point made...But, PLEASE... get out and vote for the rest of us!

Sitting this one out in Ma. may seem like poetic justice to you but it will put thousands of races in jeopardy in other states as, GOP donors get out their checkbooks and independents beginning re-evaluating the "mainstream" Teabagger movement embodied by that 'Kennedyesqe' Brown guy.

And just by the way, Republicans don't just marginally "suck less" than Democrats. See ref: Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh et al.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

16. Send Dean and not Obama.

Obama is just going to add salt to the wounds. Had Dean been advising on Coakly's campaign, we wouldn't be having tis conversation.

[Dinger]

117. + Infinity

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elocs]

19. Yes, I believe that and I believe that MA, even if it's a Dem win reflects that feeling.

You cannot simply write off a chunk of your party and try to make them toe the line with, "Well, where else can you go?"

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[depakid]

22. Dean's stating the obvious at this point

The good doctor was a good soldier for the administration and congress- but even he finally had enough of being embarrassed (and watching while responsible public policy went down the tubes in favor of pandering and alliances with the corporate right).

He was also right on when he said: we didn't elect Democrats to pass crap legislation- and "if you don't use your majority- you lose your majority."

Unfortunately it seems as if the "leadership" in the party at the moment never learns.

[PassingFair]

26. He always states the obvious.

That's why they despise him.




He pierces the veil.

[Luciferous]

46. +1

[highplainsdem]

134. +1

[TexasObserver]

24. Recommend

[kentuck]

27. We did get change.

We got the first black President in our history. Isn't that enough?

[firedupdem]

91. funny you bring up the presidents ethnicity....must be one of the only

things on your mind.

[howmad1]

177. And let's not forget....

...we got the first Jewish president as his partner.

[MannyGoldstein]

29. Dean For President 2012

Let's put a Democrat back in the White House.

[BeyondGeography]

33. Are you voting for Coakley?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeyondGeography]

43. That's honest

Even if it gives me a headache, I appreciate you're being straightforward.

[karynnj]

80. One thing that might help here is to consider that the message

has already been sent here. I seriously doubt that Obama, or anyone else, seriously thought that Massachusetts was in doubt. That it is has sent a message.

There is also the other message that will be sent. The media has slanted right for a long time. They have argued that the teabaggers are a big, underlying grassroots movement that wants change ... Sarah Palin change. Nothing could help Palin more than people saying that even in MA, the majority sides with them. Not to mention, Brown will be an immediate star. Imagine George W Bush, better looking, with a better National Guard record, that the Guilliani's could praise as "military experience". Imagine a Palin/Brown ticket. Unimaginable, but in 2000 I thought that Bush beating McCain put Gore in a much easier race.

[treestar]

100. He won't be a Democrat

He'll be third party and he'll never win.

[piratefish08]

35. Go figure..........

[Mari333]

36. knr and thank GOD someone is saying it finally but

will the beltway crowd hear it? I doubt it.

[4dsc]

37. Truth hurts Obama supporters..

I see Dean is hitting the nail on the head with his remarks once again. I find myself not being able to support the corporate leaning Democratic party any more than I can support the GOP..

[dkf]

85. Wow that hits it on the head.

They can't handle the truth.

I guess that is what separates a Dean supporter from the rest.

[KharmaTrain]

40. As Usual Dr. Dean Nails It..."Change Agent"

That's a phrase I've been searching for as it sums up the high expectations many had that this Administration hasn't been able to deliver. As has been long said, it's a lot different campaigning than administrating. The biggest criticism of the previous regime was they were in constant campaign mode...had little interest in governing (other than plundering the treaury) and it's biggest failure. This Administration campaigned on a word...but the definition of that word "change" took on different meanings to different people along with this administration underestimating how divided and impatient this country has become.

It's hard to be optimistic as this President has put himself in many no-win situations. It's a shame but inevitable as this country has many big problems yet is too busy fighting among itself to find solutions. It's turned into a zero-sum game...

[ima_sinnic]

50. thank you Dr. Dean, for being there for us--unlike some others ... (nt)

[Jamastiene]

52. I cannot believe Dean was not appointed to something...anything...

Oh, wait. Rahm...of COURSE Dean wasn't appointed to anything or included at all. Only Blue Dogs allowed.

[PassingFair]

57. And "New Dems"....

Can't forget them, they orchestrate these things....

[ProSense]

54. delete n/t

[TexasObserver]

55. Howard Dean knows Democrats.

[depakid]

60. That's because he actually (and actively) listens to folks

and considers what they have to say.

[Zenlitened]

185. Ding.

...he actually (and actively) listens to folks and considers what they have to say.

[oldlib]

58. I can understand Rahms disaproval of Dean.

I just can't see why Obama objects to the help that Dean has given and why he can't acknowledge the contributions that Dean has made.

[Edweird]

61. Really? I hadn't noticed......

[freddie mertz]

64. K & R, and thanks to the Doctor for telling it like it is.

The WH strategy of DLC-style politics is NOT helping us, folks.

Get with the program, please, Mr. President.

Start by firing Rahm, Geithner, and Summers.

[Peacetrain]

70. I am the Obama base...and I am NOT demoralized...

[anonymous171]

71. But are you part of the Democratic base?

[Peacetrain]

74. I am the Democratic base.. I am not a party offshoot that sometimes supports Democrats.. l

I like Dr. Dean.. but the Obama base is not demoralized and we are Democrats

[Fading Captain]

87. That's so fucking empty

WE ARE DEMOCRATS!!!
LOL.

Democrat is a label. It's meaningless. What's meaningful are the policies and ideals attached to the label. At least, they once were.

[goclark]

88. +1

[treestar]

102. The base does not give up as quickly as the ones who claim

they are already giving up.

[Raineyb]

294. Already given up? You act as though the party's behavior just started.

This has been going on for years. How long exactly should people wait before they decide they're disgusted?

[ObamaKerryDem]

178. +1

[ProSense]

78. Exactly, the majority of Democrats do not feel demoralized

Reinforcing the notion that the Demcoratic base is demoralized with the bogus Obama is not a "change agent" claim amounts to little but armchair quarterbacking. Dean himself was nowhere near a "change agent."

[Peacetrain]

83. Dean may be demoralized.. he needs to speak for himself.. But he is not speaking for me!

This idea that he is speaking for the Obama base is ludicrous.

[PassingFair]

105. Funny, I didn't hear him mention your name. n/t

[firedupdem]

97. +1

Can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. These people actually want a dem to lose to a teabagger to prove some point? Not really smart at all.

[laughingliberal]

228. Oh, good. So, he should be fine.

That's a relief.

[datasuspect]

76. WHY ISN"T DEAN IN HAITI GIVING OUT WATER!!11121

al qaeda 9-11!~!!!!

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RBInMaine]

82. The "base" needs to get real and stop seeing a half empty glass.

[dkf]

90. Obama has run the country like a moderate republican.

This health care system Obama wants to enshrine is Nixons baby.
He is getting us into even more wars.

I don't see any true blue democratic legislation. None.

[ProSense]

112. Obama runs the country

better than any of the armchair quarterbacks ever could.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freddie mertz]

150. "Love it or leave it" eh? No room for dissent, is there?

Meanwhile, who elected you president of the DU admissions committee?

[rateyes]

172. The party needs to get real and stop filling the glasses

with piss.

[firedupdem]

89. He doesn't speak for me or anyone else I know personally. n/t

[troubledamerican]

136. Dean speaks for me, and everyone else I know personally. n/t

[highplainsdem]

147. He speaks for me, a lot of people I know personally, and many on this board.

[treestar]

93. What insanity!

Is he trying to hurt us? To get revenge for not electing him, or what?

[firedupdem]

99. Sounds like it....and people are following right along. He's become

a bitter person.

[Bobbie Jo]

110. Scorched earth.

The GOP would be proud.

[Adelante]

101. Bullshit

''Our base is demoralized.''

Dean's base may be demoralized, but Obama's isn't. The Democratic base is bigger and broader than DUers like to claim and Dean can't make claims for the base, only a small part of it.

[Oilwellian]

242. Then there should be no problem...

with Coakley being elected by an overwhelming margin in one of the most liberal states in the country. Right?

[Laelth]

106. k&r for the Good Doctor. I could not agree more. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[highplainsdem]

133. Thanks, Laelth!

[dysfunctional press]

107. that's pretty much the same sentiment held by myself and everyone i know.

[undeterred]

108. My morale would improve if I got a job or health insurance.

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

118. K&R for The Doctor.

He has the right prescription for the sickness (Centrism/Corporatism) in the Democratic Party.

LESS than 35% of ALL American voters support Mandates without a Public Option.

What does the Democratic "Centrist" leadership THINK is going to happen when they FORCE this hugely unpopular HCR on America? :shrug:

There will be a blood bath for the Democratic Party,
BUT the Health Insurance Cartel WILL have exactly what THEY want....Mandates without a Public Option.

ANY and ALL "token" attempts at "regulation" will be quickly undone by the Republicans after the blood bath.

Seems like I've seen this movie before.
It doesn't end well for the Working Class.

The Kabuki Theater isn't even entertaining anymore.


Here is a blast from the past.
Anyone remember THIS Democratic Party?

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

Now THATS a "Democratic Party" that I can get "energized" about.
Too bad it is DEAD.

[whathehell]

142. You got it....The Doctor is correct!

[flamingdem]

120. Phonebank for Coakley from home, do it for TED !!

http://my.barackobama.com/page/votercontact/login?requested=%2Fpage%2Fvotercontact%2Fmake_calls%3Fcampaign_id%3DfnrU

[Zenlitened]

205. But please, when the people you call express sentiments simalr to Dr. Dean's...

... please ferfucksake DON'T tell them they're a bunch of whiny, bitter haters who should just shut up and quit the party already.

Believe me, the people I've spoken to here in Mass. are much more in tune with Dr. Dean's sentiments than anything you'll hear from the self-appointed doctrinal inquisitors posting such clever retorts in this thread.

[ProSense]

122. Dem Registration Edge in Florida Growing

here

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

127. Abandoning the left and moving right (again) wasn't such a hot idea.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

129. Here's what I find curious...

There's a cadre of ardent Dean supporters on this website who despise anything and everything that smacks of moderation. Either you're 100% in the tank for us or you're part of the DLC Establishment and you're Rahm Emmanuel's butt-boy.

But here's the funny thing. Howard Dean speent four years pushing the envelope of the Democratic Party. He put fulltime organizers in places like Alabama and South Carolina. He opened offices and encouraged organization. We got people elected to local offices in places where the Democrats NEVER win. The 60-seat Democratic Caucus is the result of his efforts.

Dean's strategy was, I would like to point out, in stark contrast to the approach favored by Rahm Emmanuel. Dean favored a 50-state Democratic Party, which by its very nature requires the Party to reach out to voters who were not part of our traditional base and to broaden our appeal to Independent and Moderate voters.

It would appear that Howard Dean's most passionate supporters on DU would RATHER that Emmanual had won the debate six years ago and that the Democrats had continued to pursue their old strategy. Dean, curse his soul, brought all of those MODERATES into the party and now we can't push our agenda because of the DINO's who compromise on progressive values.

Curious.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

130. Perhaps you should peruse this

http://www.counterpunch.com/walsh11112006.html

Rahm's Losers
November 11 / 12, 2006
By JOHN V. WALSH

Looking at all 22 candidates hand-picked by Rahm, we find that 13 were defeated, and only 8 won! (3) (One is still undecided.) And remember that this was the year of the Democratic tsunami and that Rahm's favorites were handsomely financed by the DCCC. Tammy Duckworth, for example, was infused with $3 million ­ and was backed in the primary by HRC, Barack Obama, John Kerry, etc. The Dems have picked up 28 seats so far, maybe more. So out of that 28, Rahm's choices accounted for 8! Since the Dems only needed 15 seats to win the House, Rahm's efforts were completely unnecessary. Had the campaign rested on Rahm's choices, there would have been only 8 or 9 new seats, and the Dems would have lost. In fact, Rahm's efforts were probably counterproductive for the Dems since the great majority of voters were antiwar and they were voting primarily on the issue of the war (60% according to CNN). But Rahm's candidates were not antiwar.

So Rahm Emanuel nearly seized defeat from the jaws of victory. The Dems fully intended to pursue the war and the neocons thought that they had found a new host in the Dem party ­ but the voters now perceive the Dems as antiwar and if they do not deliver, they will be damaged. After all Ralph Nader and Chuck Hagel are waiting in the wings for 2008 Either Emanuel is completely incompetent or else Emanuel is putting the interests of Israel ahead of Democratic victories. You decide. In either case why would he remain in a position of influence in the Dem party? A good question.
*************************************************************

The next one is really the best article I have read about the Emanuel/Dean feud and the 50 State Strategy.
Basically Rahm takes the short view and Howard takes the long view.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/why_are_democratic_leaders_fig.html
July 13, 2006
Why Are Dean and Emanuel Fighting?
By Jay Cost

*************************************************************

[Jackpine Radical]

157. When people are fed up with Republicans, you don't win by giving them

fake Republicans to vote for. You win by giving them Democrats who espouse Democratic values. The whole "We need to run Blue Dogs in conservative districts" line was nothing more than Rahm's cover for giving us corporate-friendly candidates. We would have done better running real Dems against the discredited Republicans, but that would have put real Dems into Congress, which Rahm patently did not want.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

181. I agree

I just read an article somewhere which said Rahm was prone to like "fence straddling millionaires" as candidates. Since he is completely DLC himself through and through I think he considers that to be "Democratic" enough.

[Jackpine Radical]

193. Well, we seem to agree fairly often, Phoebe.

[Oilwellian]

244. I totally agree n/t

[snagglepuss]

238. Good post, nt

[Adelante]

271. Curious is the word for it

:thumbsup:

[Sebastian Doyle]

131. As always, Dr. Dean speaks the truth, as ugly as it is.

The only true LEADER this party has had in decades. And look how it has fallen apart without him.

[wisteria]

132. Dean needs to shut up. What is he doing? Tying to discourage Demorats

from even voting? His comments seem to play right into what the RW wants to hear.

[smoogatz]

135. I think he's trying to sound a much-needed warning.

And in that event should not shut up--not at all. He has a pretty good sense for the national electoral dynamic--he built the party organization pretty much from the ground up, and he has a sense, I'm guessing, for the extent to which voter enthusiasm is being pissed away by Obama and the current Dem congress. And he's right: Obama is not the kind of big gesture game-changer the base was expecting: he's an incrementalist/centrist who's been disappointingly timid so far about taking on the big business interests that ran wild under Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush. Dean's message is that Democrats, including Obama, had better start delivering on that hope and change thing if they want to keep their jobs--and he's absolutely right, IMO.

[highplainsdem]

140. Agreed.

[Jackpine Radical]

158. That's precisely how I see it.

[wisteria]

166. He could sound this alarm without using the media to get it accross.

He still has the ear of important Democrats.

[flyarm]

183. perhaps he has and they have ignored the warning..so going public is the only option left!

[smoogatz]

190. He never had the ear of "important Democrats."

The DLCers have always treated Dean like he's a simple-minded amateur. The media is as good a place as any, seems to me--especially since I doubt very much that Dean is in the caviar fundraiser loop with the big money boys.

[Sebastian Doyle]

197. Demorats, huh?

Was that a Freudian slip, or a Freepian one?

[Vidar]

137. K&R.

[CoffeeCat]

139. Does Obama even acknowledge this reality?

As if it wasn't enough to have our faces slapped--I've never heard
word one about the Obama administration acknowledging our pain.

We feel *ucked over. Do they care?

I've heard Rahm suggesting that the base is just fine. But
not much else.

Have I missed something?

Has the administration ever addressed this very obvious reality?

[ddeclue]

143. Dean for President 2012!

:D

[ShortnFiery]

167. Yes, it was Dean's initiatives that won us the Congress in 2006. But now Rahm, et. al., have froze.

him out.

President Obama best break out of his Corporate DLC bubble soon lest we lose Congress in 2010. :thumbsdown:

[NorthCarolina]

144. At least Dean is proving to have a deep understanding of what is going on. eom

[whathehell]

146. What can you do with someone like Dean?...He actually believes in TWO parties!

[swilton]

149. A 'good' president

is anyone other than Bush....

A 'great' president would start to turn things around.

[davidwparker]

152. Dean !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

... in 2012

[impik]

153. So i guess Dean is going to vote for Brown on Tuesday

He just couldn't wait with the Obama bashing until Tuesday, ah?

Bitter loser.

[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sebastian Doyle]

198. Yeah, that's it.......

The only leader the Democratic party has had for decades, who lives in VERMONT, is going to vote for a Repuke in a state he never lived in.

God damn you cheerleaders need to grow up

[rebel with a cause]

154. Perhaps if Dean got out and worked to improve the way things

are going instead of throwing stones and creating demoralization among those that still support him and others, things would be better. Perhaps Dr. Dean is too interested in what will help himself instead of what will help this country and that is why he creates chaos instead of finding a way to create a positive avenue for the Democrats to follow. JMHO

[EFerrari]

164. LOL. Howard Dean already gave this party CPR 3 separate times

and all he got was that t-shirt printed with Rahm's nasty language.

If he is only self-interested, he's about the most inept self-interested politician I've ever seen.

[Name removed]

168. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bette Noir]

179. The "White House" has told the country how much it values Dr. Dean.

The "White House" has been quoted in the last few weeks calling Dr. Dean "irrelevant," and "insane." I've emailed the "White House" repeatedly, telling whatever poor intern reads those things that Mr. President better disavow those comments, or the 50+% of the electorate who voted for him will consider that he's on the other side.

[flyarm]

188. perhaps DrDean Loves democracy and is seeing it run amok, and perhaps he realizes he

helped create a monster! And perhaps he has a conscience.

From a Democrat who had my vote stolen in 2008

[branders seine]

155. The DC dems could not have done a better job

of demoralizing their constituency if they'd tried.

Hmmm...

[pscot]

156. K&R

for my favorite Democrat of the last 30 years.

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[progressoid]

163. Dean should have just voted for McCain.

:sarcasm:

[Libertas1776]

170. K&R!

[rateyes]

171. One of the few truth tellers left. nt

[David Zephyr]

174. Kicking this up for Dr. Dean!

Proud to do so.

[Howler]

175. I absolutely agree with Dean!

Most of my friends are notoriously liberal college professors and they have ALL expressed dismay,disappointment,with this administration.

[Name removed]

176. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Goldstein1984]

187. Maybe Howard Dean is the change we can believe in?

Said Dean: "They really thought the revolution was at hand but it wasn't, and now they're getting the back of the hand."

If felt like a revolution to me. Doesn't anymore.

As far as the MA race goes, if MA Democrats wanted to hold onto Ted Kennedy's seat, they should have found somebody a little more like Ted Kennedy.

Then they wouldn't have had to muzzle Rahm Emanuel, send the President to MA on a weekend, and get Ed Schultz to devote his Friday program to begging Progressives for forgiveness on behalf of the Democratic Party.

[ooglymoogly]

195. Howard dean is the only man in the last 10 years

with the gravitas to be president. For the most part the rest are just so many politicians.

[kohodog]

196. I, for one am demoralized.

I was a latecomer to the Obama bandwagon, but finally bought in to a degree. He has done some good things but is in no way a progressive dem. He never said he was and while I respect him and his accomplishments I would have preferred to see the dems take a much more aggressive stance. My disillusionment is only in part with Obama. The congress has much to do with this, even more than Obama.
I will vote in November, but at this point don't see being as involved in campaigns.

[Kermitt Gribble]

199. K&R for Howard Dean!!

One of the very few people real Democrats (as oppopsed to New Democrats) can rely on these days for the truth.

[Zenlitened]

200. Howard Dean is a whiny, bitter, poutraged do-nothing eeyore who hates Democrats...

... and should just shut up/quit the party because all he cares about is himself/getting Repubs elected just to spite the Obama Base!!!!1

Did I get all the talking points in? Any I missed?*

I swear, I don't think I've ever used the phrase "Obamabot" before, but some of you folks are really starting to scare me.

Listen to yourselves, would you? It's appalling.

*Edited to add: Oh yeah... the pony. Still with the freakin' pony. Is this the best we can get from weekend staffing at Message Central? :eyes:

[madfloridian]

207. Yeh!

good post.

[tango-tee]

255. Amen!

You are telling it like it is.

[Starry Messenger]

257. Go Zen!

:thumbsup:

[bobbolink]

201. "Independents are leaving Obama." He was warned, and he ignored it.

[Barbara2423]

206. I'm not ready to throw in the towel. Obama wasted alot of

time trying to get republicans to work with him and it personally made me and alot of others angry.

[HuckleB]

210. Thanks for the self-serving rant, Mr. Dean.

Man, was I wrong about you.

[LaPera]

217. Name a politician who ever existed that gave a speech or rant that wasn't "self-serving"? NONE!

[scipan]

211. Once again, Howard speaks for me. Thank you. n/t

[KonaKane]

212. Love or hate Dean, he's right

And no, this isn't just because I was a Deanie in 2004. Everything he said in the aforementioned article is true. This isn't just a blame bomb lobbed at Obama; I voted for him and still think he is doing a good job, all things considered. But it's undeniable that the force majeur who propelled Obama and many Democrats into power was hoping for a revolution of much more powerful and clearly drawn proportions. As it stands now, it looks like we are piling up the compromises on things we could have piled through with intent, urgency and resolve.

Don't hate the Howard. He may not run a campaign very well but he has a history of calling it like it is, and we Democrats/liberals would do well to consider his views.

[Zenlitened]

214. Excellent post. - n/t

[Raine]

215. Dean is totally on point. nt

[Jim Sagle]

222. The weekend crew of DLC hogwash dispensers is in da house!

Judging by their stench, Al From set up shop this AM in the lobby of a skid row flophouse and rounded up all the residents who could type.

[unkachuck]

223. K&R....n/t

[defendandprotect]

233. I think we have to find out how big this BASE of liberals/progressives is . . .

Liberals/progressives have to come together --- is there a Liberal/Progessive forum

here at DU????

We need to discuss some other possibiles -- Plan B --

[Sebastian Doyle]

259. How about the DFA forum in "groups"?

The Rahmbots can't go in there and bash Democrats.

[ima_sinnic]

260. thanks for pointing that out

I need to check that out

[defendandprotect]

295. I'm willing if it works for other liberals/progressives . . .. ???

Duh . . . what's "DFA" . . . ???

[RoccoR5955]

234. K & R... I'm afraid to say, Dr. Dean is 1000% correct.

We shall truly see, after Tuesday's election in Mass. If the Con wins, healthcare is dead, and so are the Dems in 2010.

[pundaint]

237. What could be more cynical that to pick the bluest state in the country

and claim that the open seat of the Kennedy clan is now a referendum on a corrupt health care bill, contrary to the Democratic Platform, negotiated contrary to campaign promises, behind closed doors, and containing many provisions that Obama ridiculed when he was conning us into voting for him in the primaries.

Massachusetts Democrats, are you going to sit out and tacitly approve this hijacking of democratic principles by corporatist republican types in Democratic clothing, or are you going to express your demand for real democratic Democrats to represent us by voting for the only true party representative, the Republican.

Note: This seat will be up again next election, and we will have a better shot at getting a democratic Democrat in that chair, if we vote for this ass-clown Brown this time, otherwise we might be saddled with the right winger Coakley for two terms.

[deacon]

239. Thats because the MSM and GOP BS'd everyone into thinking Obama is to blame for all the Bush years.

I guess they wanted him to come in and click his heals 3 times and undo 8 years of bush in one year.

[pundaint]

245. I disagree, Obama is only responsible for defeating real reform before it got out of the gate

making private deals to the detriment of the American People behind closed doors the representatives of the pharmaceutical industry, keeping his hand out of the process except to ratchet down the value to the People, or to ratchet up the payoff to the Insurers at every junction.

Our President has sold out the People of America on Health Care

He also has hired major benefactors of the banking bubble and crash to find ways to refill their cronies pockets with public cash because they had gambled all of their, and much of ours away.

Oh, and he further weakened the civil rights of all Americans, and confirmed the now official policy, by precedent, that the Executive Branch is above the law, including international law.

Other than that, he has done a few things right.

Nobody needs to trick us, we have eyes to see for ourselves

[Jefferson23]

241. The biggest disappointment for me is the health insurance reform that never came to be.

How the Democrats could not see that they would also lose Independents over that is beyond my understanding. It was the one domestic issue I thought Obama would fight like hell for. Then after that, Geithner and Summers suck too. Good luck to us in Novemeber.

[highplainsdem]

296. Exactly. This HCR mess has really hurt us.

[grahamhgreen]

250. Maybe you DLC'rs will reconsider and give us real HCR, or real bank reform, or out of iraqistan.

[DFW]

254. We lost out BIG TIME when Howard stepped down as DNC chair

That was one term limit that worked against us.

Thaty fact that Howard holds NO major position whatsoever; whether in the Party or in the administration, and yet is STILL one of the most
listened-to Democrats anywhere speaks volumes about those who did their utmost to banish him to the sidelines.

How about this as a yardstick: how many people care what Rahm Emanuel has to say? How many people care what Howard has to say? Obama's ear
appears to be the only one Rahm has. I wonder when Obama will ask himself just how healthy that is proving to be for his presidency?

[alp227]

258. Thank you for the warning, Dr. Dean

Although voters may not be checking the incumbent's name at the polls, maybe most of them won't check the name with (R) on it. Because a Washington Post/ABC News poll just showed that 75% of all adults don't have confidence in congressional Republicans. So maybe there'll be a resurgence of independent candidates if independents are drifting away from Obama but probably not to that other party?

[bkohatlanta]

261. 100% Obama's Fault

He wheeled and dealed, didn't care about principles or who got hurt. Howard Dean is exactly right, we would be 100 times better off if the Republicans and phony Democrats had blocked reform than this monstrosity that Obama and his "staff", allies and friends came up with.
He lost me over torture.
Republicans are flamethrowers, they oppose everything, destroy everything so they can take over.

Obama played right into their hands.

Helen Thomas was like the voice of Cassandra while Mr. Gibbs was his Goebbels. I would listened to Cassandra, not a sycophant.

[Enthusiast]

272. I agree with Dr. Dean

But, electing Brown is not an outcome I can tolerate. I sent a modest campaign donation to Coakley.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

284. What is demoralizing people (and losing the Independents who voted for change)

is that it's all business as usual in Washington.

Sure, Obama can't wave a magic wand, BUT he could have done little things like, oh, I don't know, not sending more troops into Afghanistan for a war with no defined purpose or declaring adamantly and often that he would not sign a HCR bill unless it had a public option open to all Americans.

So far, all I see is the status quo (Patriot Act, bogus War on Terror) and worsening situations (Afghanistan, The Healthy Insurance Companies Act).

[ProSense]

285. This post should be titled: Howard Dean

sells President Obama

[Ed76638]

288. Bwahahahahahahaha

Your post is a perfect example of fail logic.

[Ed76638]

287. Dean already sees the writing on the wall

But no Howard. It's back to the insane asylum for you.

[democracy1st]

289. freakin Goldman Sachs played Obama for a fool!

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

293. stop complaining and work harder

Would you rather wait until the republicans have both houses again, or see if or pussy Democrats can do better with an even larger majority. Then in areas like, Jim Mc Dermot's district support a Green or Progressive party challenger and attack from the left. Stop crying and take a lesson from the tea party.

[Krashkopf]

297. K & R Howard Dean speaks for ME