Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The United States Died Yesterday

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 02:51 AM
Original message
The United States Died Yesterday
Edited on Fri Jan-22-10 02:52 AM by Prophet 451
The ramifications of yesterday's Citizen's United decision are difficult to comprehend. In one fell swoop, in a decision which relied on no precedent or legal rule, the Supreme Court of Justice Roberts destroyed any and all limits on corporate financing of campaigns. No, it's too big. Let's walk back a little and take a brief look at how we got here.

In a decision in the nineteenth century, a no less misguided Supreme Court decided that corporations were, in certain important respects, persons and thus entitled to some of the protections laid out in the United States Constitution. Too much ancient history for you? OK, perhaps you'd feel better if we only went back about thirty years. It was about thirty years ago that the public began to be fed an endless diet of anti-union propoganda. Not coincidently, that coincided with the rise in Washington of a class of politicians who believed Ayn Rand was right; that corporations should be entirely unregulated. My opinions on Rand are fairly irrelevent here (although I believe she may be the most evil woman in history) but what that led to was a systematic dismantling of the limits on corporate activities that had been put in place after the Great Depression (also caused by corporations). Those politicians, in union with a media almost completely controlled by the right-wing, preached that the corporation was your friend and the public, so forgetful, so endlessly trusting, believed them.

Perhaps you would say that, since today's decision was made by judges, not politicians, that political movement is irrelevent. Sadly, that's untrue. Judges are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Congress. Because of that, the only judges considered for selection are those whose worldview matches that of their selector. President Reagan would not have even considered a judge who was pro-choice, for example. Confirmation is a little more complex but, given the Republican minority's effective current veto power (via their unprecedented lockstep filibuster on absolutely everything and no, wingers, the Democrats were nowhere near this bad to Bush) can be worked around. Bush just went with recess appointments (and it's unclear whether that was even meant to apply to judicial nominations). The lifetime appointments given the Supreme Court justices were originally meant to insulate judges from political pressures. In reality, they've done exactly the opposite and simply given a lifetime term to any justice's political biases.

Ah, now we can get to the ramifications of the decision. Keith Olbermann did a good job of scratching the surface in his special comment yesterday but, given the time limits of his medium, he could go only so far. Let's start with these: A lowering and eventual abolition of corporate taxes and, shortly thereafter, of taxes on the rich who run those corporations. How about the abolition of minimum wage laws? From now on, your salary will be whatever the corporation decides to pay you. Think you can go to another corporation and get paid better? Good luck. With corporations in control of Congress, expect ever more incentives to move jobs overseas. You're going to be competing for jobs with ever more people and if you won't take that job for fifty cents an hour, there's someone who will. Oh yeah, your taxes are going to go up as well. With the lowering and elimination of corporat tax and taxes on the wealthy, the money has to come from somewhere and it's going to come from you.

Oh, you think the politicians wouldn't go that far? Sorry, you will now choose your politicians from a pool of candidates funded (and therefore, vetted and approved) by the corporations. The corporations now control whether your politicians get elected and that means that politicians will do whatever the corporation demands. From now on, you don't have a senator from California, you have a senator from Aetna or Wellpoint or... Well, pick a corporation.

The dream of the corporations is and always has been to have a class of people rich enough to buy their crap and a much larger class poor enough and desperate enough to work for pennies to make their crap. So you can kiss any form of healthcare reform goodbye. If you get sick, tough luck, you're fired and out to starve in the gutter. Any and all forms of employee protection will go. You will now be employed for as long as the corporation wants you, at whatever wages they want to pay. Forget workplace safety laws, forget employer funded healthcare. Forget the enviroment too. The corporate sector has always resisted enviromental protections and now, they're in a position to do something about it. Forget same-sex marriage, some red meat thrown to the evangelicals while the corporations take over. Reproductive choice will go the same way and, since the corporation always wants to lower wages, ever more people competing for ever fewer jobs is always in their interests. Forget banking reform too, there are few corporations more powerful. Credit card reform is the same story. Oh, and forget consumer protections as well. So your drugs may or may not work anymore. Expect more wars, expect a draft or "national service" because the corporations that manufacture bullets and bombs and all that fancy equipment are still corporations, after all.

Think I'm being too alarmist? Perhaps. But look up the position of the average person during the Great Depression, or the Dark Ages or any age where those with the gold ruled openly. Your wages have already stagnated for years. Now, with nothing to stop them, they're going to start falling. Expect the few remaining rules on media ownership to be swept aside as well. The corporations need to control those to control you, to keep you distracted.

So who can you turn to to save you? Sorry, there's not much better news here. A Supreme Court decision, through the doctrine of stare decisis, establishes enforceable law for all courts within US jurisdiction. Through the principle of judicial review, any law passed by Congress will have to be compatible with this decision or it will simply be overturned, either by the Supreme Court or by a lower court with no choice but to follow this precedent. You could try for a Constitutional amendment, the Supreme Court can't overrule that but the chances of getting a Constitutional amendment through Congress with the current Republican veto are nil and if you think a lter Republican Congress will do so, you're dreaming. The Republican party has become the political arm of the business lobby and, through the right's control of the media, has managed to convince much of the populace that that's a good thing.

Enjoy your remaining time to complain about this on the internet as well. Because Net Neutrality will shortly become a thing of the past. And if you think "the people" are going to rise up and institute a revolution, forget it. History shows us that revolutions only happen when people's basic needs are threatened or removed and even then, it's only fifty-fifty. Bread and circuses. If the bellies of "the people" are full and they have, say, American Idol to distract them, they may grumble but, chances are, they won't do anything about it. They'll go to the polls every few years and cast their vote for the corporate-approved shill who sounds slightly better than the other corporate-approved shill. The people of Germany didn't rebel against Hitler, nor did the people of Rome rebel against Nero. Until the food stops coming, there will be no revolution and even if there was, who do you think makes your guns and bullets? I can make ammo, as can a lot of firearms hobbyists but the gun you need to fire them comes from those same corporations and, incidently, the chances are fairly good that you'd be too busy fending off the poor bastards now starving in the streets to take up arms against the corporations.

Amid all the accusations of socialism and communism the right has been throwing around lately, it seems that fascism has snuck in by the back door (shh, don't tell the wingers, they think fascism was a left-wing ideaology). Mussolini, the original fascist leader, once said that fascism should more properly be called corporatism as it represented the union of state and corporate power. "The people" or, as I like to call them, "the mob" may not know this because their education has been woefully limited and they have been lied to their whole lives but corporate control of the political sphere is the very definition of fascism. There might not be tanks in the streets (as people seem to believe fascism requires) but it's fascism all the same. You now live in a fascist country.

Let me put this in simple terms so that it cannot be misunderstood: The American experiment is over, it failed. Government of, by and for the people is done. Legislators are now for sale to the highest bidder. Government is now (as Olbermann brilliantly said) of the people, by the corporation, for the corporation. If you want to know what the future looks like, read some William Gibson or the rulebook for the roleplaying game Shadowrun (although, sadly, you won't get the magic). You have, generously, five years to destroy this monstrous decision, to save your country and the dream of America. If this decision is not overturned, cut down or otherwise circumvented, your entire way of life is over.

Get to work.

"Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go / I owe my soul to the company store" ~ Johnny Cash
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. This has been going on for a while...
...The Beltway has been bought and sold to the highest bidder long before today.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
38. The drama over this is great. Scott Brown, HCR death, Haiti, all forgotten.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. .

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yeah. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. I will be reading this post to my kids tonight.
Edited on Fri Jan-22-10 03:59 AM by Bonobo
It is an important part of history and their education.

We are safe now, in Japan, their other homeland. I think we will stay for a while.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thank you, sir n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveinJapan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I'm right here with ya...
BUT, Japan has its own problems! I don't feel much better about being here right now either!

Time to start looking for other "safe haven" kinda places. *sigh*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes, they do. But the scale is vastly different.
Which problems do YOU mean?

My health care is covered well here, the country does not shoot missiles at innocent people, and they are not headed FURTHER down the economic dump, I think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveinJapan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
40. I mean economically, mostly...
I hope you're right that Japan is NOT headed further down the economic dump, but some facts I've seen indicate that Japan is even more fucked than America at the moment.

THAT'S what worries me.

Although, if the shit hits the fan I'll meet you at the Embassy in Akasaka and we can ride the chopper out together. Right? :p
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. What facts?
Edited on Sat Jan-23-10 08:24 AM by Bonobo
And I am too far from Akasaka. Will Shinsaibashi work?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveinJapan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. There's an embassy at Shinsaibashi?
Anyway, just various economic worries I've heard about and read about concern me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. The United States Died on Jan, 23, 2010
She was proceeded in death by Democracy who Died on Dec. 12, 2000. God help us all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Preceded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks for the correction, I knew that, but I'm getting so old, I forgot it..
Edited on Fri Jan-22-10 05:22 AM by Tippy
Sometimes I forget to proof read, sometimes my fingers don't move as they should and sometimes when I scroll down to spell check, I hit the the post button instead, it's hell to get old.

(fogot a word this time)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Many of us share your deficiency.
Think nothing of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Thanks..But I'm worried...besides I could easily do twice as much if it weren't for the fingers...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. I think it's important we spend our remaining time with friends and family.
If it is true that we're fighting a losing battle against the tides of history, then at least we still have the choice to spend the remaining days around the people we love and are fond of. All great powers and empires eventually fail and are replaced by something else, and all good things eventually come to an end. Why is our nation any different?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Good advice n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. This is the only thing I can come up with, too
I'm just astounded, gobsmacked, totally and completely demoralized. The powers that be aren't even trying to create a pretense of "normality" anymore. We are totally screwed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greenbird Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. I wonder how many people out there realize what has happened.
I feel like I'm living the beginning of some futuristic sci-fi movie. I really worry about my kids.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. You are
I used Shadowrun as an example because it's one of the more fleshed-out examples and I used William Gibson because, well, I'm a fan of Bill Gibson but really, you could take much the same from most sci-fi or speculative future novels or films.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" comes to mind, because the ones who fell asleep and
Edited on Fri Jan-22-10 09:29 AM by FailureToCommunicate
"changed" look an awful lot like our next door neighbors - and ourselves...

Good analysis, thanks for posting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. This is significant.
"Think I'm being too alarmist? Perhaps. But look up the position of the average person during the Great Depression, or the Dark Ages or any age where those with the gold ruled openly."

We only need look back to the 19th century at the early attempts to organize labor. Wives and children of strikers were mowed down by automatic weapons fired by hired Pinkerton thugs (think Blackwater).

Those were the days, when you "worked for a living". In other words, the coal you dug, almost with your bare hands, would almost pay enough to live on. And you bought every bite your family ate from the "company store".

Cheating the coal miner was institutionalized. Workers actually had to dig substantially over one ton of coal for the company calibrated scale to register one ton and this was enforced by law.

Think Charles Dickens England and you will have it about right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. I know
I used those examples primarily because they're the examples the average person would be most familiar with but, with the corporations now in charge, workhouses and debtor's prison will probably be back soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
15. Excellent analysis. Recommended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Thanks n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
21. IMHO, we suffered a fatal wound on 12-12-00.
We've been bleeding out since that date. When we're declared officially dead is anyone's guess.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Very true, it's been tragic ever since. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I think it died 12/12/2000, myself
of a long infirmity that was underway LONG before it revealed itself to all of our plebian eyes.

This is just the corpse starting to mold and stink.



It was a nice run, and a beautiful dream, even if it often fell short in practice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
44. I think it goes back to 11/22/63: the assassination of JFK.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
22. Murdered by conservatives. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. No, murdered by corporate interest.
Many paleoconservatives are horrified at the decision and I don't see why corporate Democrats would see this as a negative.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
25. But...
...Hyperbole is alive and well.

This too shall pass folks....we made it through the Bush regime....we will make it through this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
26. "Don't mourn, organize!" -Mother Jones. (BTW "16 Tons" is by Merle Travis, though
of course most any song becomes Johnny's the way he sings them!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
46. My bad
I've only ever heard the Johnny Cash version.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I liked his best.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. Great post and well said. It is up to every single person who "gets it"
to make sure that they cause another person to "get it". And then we have to figure out the best ways to fight it and then we have to actually do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. Thanks for a good post. It is a horrible situation. People are naive if they think
that corporations are not going to take over the laws completely. This next election will put republicans in charge of the house by a huge majority and 1/3 of senators will be newly elected republicans. I posted elsewhere what only $20B spent by corporations can do in this election. Somewhere around $40M per republican congress member.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. We have become an oligarchy of corporations and wealthy special interests!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
32. It's a travesty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlphaZero Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is fucking bullshit
This is ridiculous. I knew something like this would happen eventually. But this soon? My life is screwed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
next left2 Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
35. Excellent analysis - required reading
This should be required reading in every classroom of every high school, college, university and especially every GD voc tech across America Land.

The United States has been sold to corporate fat cats.

Thank you, asshole republicans, for destroying democracy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #35
45. Thank you, that's high praise n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
36. Can change occur without mass protest and violence? The right wing is arming
and I promise you they will get whatever they want because of it. History is not kind to those who do not fight for what they want. Now that FBI, NSA, CIA, and rest of DoD and AT&T are spying on us - corporations and the wealthy will be emboldened to legislate even more "reform" to line their pockets with our tax dollars. The military now works exclusively for Fortune 500 CEOs and board of directors. It has been more and more this way informally, now it is official.

Since they are spying on us - how can we organize and protest? If I want to organize a massive protest in civil disobedience, I can't because as soon as word goes out I will be wiretapped and snitches will be at the meetings.

Congratulations USA - with AT&T allowed to wiretap us and corporations allow to run candidates, we are now officially and formally a fascist state.

And when the "centrists" come out and say that wiretapping and corporate control of government is realistic and moderate - there should be a special express lane for them at the guillotine.

You are correct about net neutrality - I raised this point in another post. I don't think people fully realize what is happening here in this country - torture, Wall Street, Health Reform, Afghan war, on and on. I am just stunned.

What will it take before people realize just how much power they have lost as citizens? There is a time for anger and it is now.








Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
37. Can change occur without mass protest and violence? The right wing is arming
and they will get whatever they want because they are feared and they intimidate congress and Obama. History is not kind to those who do not fight for what they want. Now that FBI, NSA, CIA, and rest of DoD and AT&T are spying on us - corporations and the wealthy will be emboldened to legislate even more "reform" to line their pockets with our tax dollars. The military now works exclusively for Fortune 500 CEOs and board of directors. It has been more and more this way informally, now it is official.

Since they are spying on us - how can we organize and protest? If I want to organize a massive protest in civil disobedience, I can't because as soon as word goes out I will be wiretapped and snitches will be at the meetings.

Congratulations USA - with AT&T allowed to wiretap us and corporations allow to run candidates, we are now officially and formally a fascist state.

And when the "centrists" come out and say that wiretapping and corporate control of government is realistic and moderate - there should be a special express lane for them at the guillotine.

You are correct about net neutrality - I raised this point in another post. I don't think people fully realize what is happening here in this country - torture, Wall Street, Health Reform, Afghan war, on and on. I am just stunned.

What will it take before people realize just how much power they have lost as citizens? There is a time for anger and it is now.








Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
39. Prophet 451 has hit it exactly right. Impeach 4 Justices NOW.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
41. A bit too much hyperventilating
over one SC decision that doesn't really produce a sea change in anything, and certainly not in the way corporations and their lobbyists and their money control our politics. Yes, that situation is bad, but it's been bad for a long time and certainly wouldn't have gotten any better if this case had been decided differently.

For a more sensible take on the decision, try this:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/22/citizens_united/index.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. What that article boils down to is...
I'm also quite skeptical of the apocalyptic claims about how this decision will radically transform and subvert our democracy by empowering corporate control over the political process. My skepticism is due to one principal fact: I really don't see how things can get much worse in that regard.

Some people thought Gore and Bush were the same and it couldn't get any worse with one as opposed to the other as well. Then people re-elected Bush and thought, well now for sure, it couldn't get much worse....and so on.

I think that Glenn Green is being naive in that article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Well, answer his question
"Does anyone believe that the ability of corporations to influence our political process was meaningfully limited before yesterday's issuance of this ruling?" (my emphasis)

And even if some naive people like Ralph Nader and his followers thought that Gore and Bush were the same, how is that even remotely relevant to evaluating Glenn Greenwald's judgement on this issue? Because some people were wrong about some issue at some time, that automatically calls Greenwald's opinion into question?

You might also read his response to a lot of the comments, if you want to get a better sense of the real issues involved in the decision:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/23/citizens_united/index.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
43. It Died In December, 2000
This just codified the corporate and right wing of our judiciary...by overstepping their authority in selecting georgie boooosh as president. This opened the door to bring in Roberts and Scalito and made this recent ruling possible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
50. Excellent Post! Kickin it to page one!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-24-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Cheers n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC