Is political correctness rearing its ugly head again?

[derby378]

Before I start, I owe my fellow DUers a mea culpa.

I just had a talk with my loving and patient wife about this whole "R-word" deal that's being pushed lately and about my use of a phrase that many DUers considered sexist a few weeks ago. I explained that my remarks were not directed at any particular gender or ethnicity or anything of the sort, but she told me that regardless of my intention, I still used a term that referenced both female chickens and female dogs in a negative connotation, and even if I tried to frame it in a gender-neutral tone, the fact that my phrase did derive from said female animals renders the phrase "pretty bad."

My wife made the point that my challenge is not to toughen the hides of those whom I'm addressing, but instead to find the right words to convey what aggravation I might be feeling. Everyone's vocabulary can stand a little shoring up, myself included. ChickMagic reminded me of the timeless proverb: "Obscenity is the intellectual crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker."

Therefore, I apologize to all DUers whom I have offended in recent weeks. It may not have been my intent to offend, but I have done so anyway, and am trying to do better.

That said, back to the "R-word" debate. When Rahm Emanuel referred to progressives as "fucking retarded" for threatening to run attack ads against conservative Democrats, I took the retort as being dismissive of the liberal wing of our party and not as a slur against our mental faculties or against the mentally disabled. Through a White House spokesperson, Emanuel has apparently apologized, and it seems like the call has gone forth to sweep this under the rug and move on. Apologies have also been made to the athletes and administration of the Special Olympics.

But how much is too much? This is a question I mulled over constantly during the Clinton years, and I find myself doing that today. Should our hesitancy to offend anyone be such that we find ourselves stifling our own speech, or is it necessary to break a few eggs in order to creat the perfect linguistic omelette?

I think I'm going freestyle at this point, so I'll clam up and hear everyone else out. :hi:

[wtmusic]

1. We all have our moments of insensitivity

and there are few circumstances in which we shouldn't be allowed to apologize, and move on.

[tridim]

2. Rahm Emanuel did not refer to progressives as "fucking retarded"

He referred to their ACTIONS against the Democratic Party as "fucking retarded".

This lie is extremely prevalent on the MSM this morning.

He obviously shouldn't have used the word, but the MSM shouldn't be lying about it either.

[Lerkfish]

7. its against the democratic party to support a liberal democrat?

really?

in what way?

[tridim]

11. Of course not, who said that?

All Rahm was saying is that it's stupid to run negative ads against yourself.

[Lerkfish]

14. "their ACTIONS against the Democratic Party"

um, I believe YOU did.

[tridim]

21. No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

The "actions" were specifically defined in this case, running negative ads against your own party.

[Lerkfish]

40. ah. my bad

I misunderstood.

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. As a liberal, I was unoffended by what that jackass Emmanuel said.

He is a jackass, after all. He can call me whatever he wants.

As a parent of a child with a developmental disability, I was greatly offended.

How much is too much? Stopping language which serves to further marginalize a neglected and disparaged minority isn't too much.

[NoNothing]

6. Uh-oh

"Stopping language which serves to further marginalize a neglected and disparaged minority isn't too much."

So we can't say anything bad about Republicans now?!

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. We can say lots of bad, because they're bad. n/t

[dem629]

31. Your post could be offensive to donkeys.

Or people who like donkeys, or donkey farmers or anyone else who wants to be offended by it.

[hfojvt]

39. uh-oh

"The Plight of the American Donkey"

　As the Executive Director of a donkey rescue as well as a professional donkey wrangler, I sometimes forget that most people don’t know what I know.　 Doctors understand sickness, dentists understand teeth, lawyers understand law and, well, I understand donkeys.　 I spend a great deal of time with these animals and I guess you could say that I feel what they feel; I know their thoughts and I understand their actions.　 But most importantly, I view them as remarkable creatures.

　Will Rogers once said, “I never met a man I didn’t like.” While few of us in today’s fast paced, keepin’ up with Jones’, super sized, internet ready world share Mr. Roger’s sentiments about our fellow citizens, I can say without a second thought that I truly have never met a donkey that I didn’t like. Although I have, on occasion, met a dog, cat, horse or mule that I had little or no use for, no donkey has ever crossed my path that I couldn’t find a great deal of good in.

　The wild donkeys of America tell as accurate account of our history as any book on the matter.　 They were brought here as low-level workers.　 By carrying equipment and pulling carts these sure-footed animals made themselves invaluable to explorers and miners.　 As times changed and money grew scarce, many donkeys were released into the wild to fend for themselves.　 The Deserts of Arizona, Nevada, and California were a perfect home for these rugged animals who managed to keep their breed strong and healthy for nearly a century. Now, human intervention is taking its toll.

http://www.donkeyrescue.org/plight%20of%20the%20american%20donkey.htm

"Why do people abuse donkeys?"

　No other animal that I have ever come across has the ability to take all of your power away like a donkey.　 In a parade one of my donkeys stopped and would not move.　 On a pack trip 2 of my donkeys decided that it was time to stop after just 2 hours of hiking.　 In both cases I was powerless.　 They had all of the control over the situation.　 If a donkey makes a decision, he will stand by it until the end.　 The only way to get him to change his decision is to make him think that he has had a better idea.

　You cannot force a donkey to do anything.　 Beating will only make him more persistent.　 More persistent leads to more frustration on the part of the abuser.　 More frustration leads to more beating.　 You can beat most animals into doing anything including killing themselves.　 You cannot do this to a donkey.　 Simply stated, they make us look stupid.　

http://www.donkeyrescue.org/who%20do.htm

[jgraz]

35. You have every right to be offended, but let's keep our eye on the ball

The problem is not that Rahmsfeld used an insensitive term. The problem is that he has his head up his ass with regard to the current political situation. That's going to hurt all of us very soon.

[NightWatcher]

4. quit yer bitching

Whoops, damn, there I did it too.

The control of words through coercion or social pressure is a dangerous thing in my opinion. I like obscenities and I love your proverb which speaks against the creativity of the profane. Sometimes strong words are needed that will elicit a response that is emotional as well as analytical.

I also believe that a thicker skin is needed by many here who troll for reasons to become offended.


In conclusion.....don't quit yer bitchin.

[Lerkfish]

5. Criticizing Manson because he carved the swastika in his forehead backwards

instead of the insanity to do it in the first place.

I don't care if he used the word "retarded" as much as I care about the sentiment behind the statement.

[wtmusic]

15. He probably wanted it to look right in his prison mirror anyway nt

[Captain Hilts]

8. Thanks for this. Language has meaning that is important. Keep the faith. nt

[Robbien]

9. Political correctness is a term which is used by boorish individuals to justify

their desire to get away with denigrating groups of individuals by using derogatory terms.

Every time I hear or read someone use a derogatory term I believe that person to be a boorish individual. Saying "so sorry IF I offended anyone" makes that person even more boorish in my viewpoint. The offense was blatantly intended by use of the word.

[omega minimo]

43. +1 & it was invented by Right Wing boors to mock/halt development of cultural sensitivity to others

whoever they might be.

[havocmom]

10. "Obscenity is the intellectual crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker."= good tag line

And we are all guilty of it from time to time. More carefully chosen and accurate language would probably help the national discussions.

By the same token, a lot of PC objections are also based on a peculiar laziness of thought processes. If we do not grasp context, it is easier to take offense at terms which may well have meant none. And since taking offense right off the bat requires less effort than thinking about context, the knee-jerking we all do sometimes can happen too often.

Sadly, carefully selected words and well thought out communication is no guarantee of the listener/reader getting receiving messages accurately. We all have filters, and most are in our own ears.

[pipi_k]

33. Exactly! And thank you...

Too many people are lazy that way. It really IS easier to jump to conclusions than to sit and think something through...maybe even give someone the benefit of the doubt instead of jumping on that person and accusing him/her of actually being an "ist" based on the use of a particular word.

And I agree wholeheartedly that even trying to find ways to not be offensive won't work either, as people do tend to hear through their own filters. When I was a member of another discussion group, I had a very rocky nine-year online relationship with a woman who said she was a lawyer. She also had some mental issues, and it was extremely difficult to communicate with her on a civil footing because she was always (!!) picking people's sentences and words apart, accusing people of saying things they never said, and the whole thing was just very unpleasant. For everyone involved. Especially when such incidents devolved into hate-fests she would start so she could be a victim of a bunch of reeeealllly meeeeen people.

Sometimes it's the listener, not the speaker/writer who has the problem...

[Gemini Cat]

12. I think it boils down to

don't be an asshole.

If a person uses a word that insults/hurts a group of people or makes them less than human, don't use it.

[noamnety]

13. I'm not sure why you think political correctness is ugly.

Political correctness is a formal way of saying don't use bigoted language to slur groups of people (directly or indirectly) based on their identity.

It makes me sad when democrats view treating classes of people with basic respect as an unreasonable imposition.

I am not a fan of treating oppressed/underprivileged groups of people as acceptable collateral damage, like they exist to be used as the model of scum that we compare others to. That includes implying men we don't like are gay, or are women, or slurs like Rahm used.

[wtmusic]

19. "political correctness" is a derogatory term for "sensitivity"

I try to avoid it altogether, as "PC" seems to be employed liberally by insensitive people.

[noamnety]

24. True, and I don't use the term itself because I get that it's a right wing meme.

(outside of discussions directly about the term, anyway)

[dem629]

29. You pick your words, other people pick theirs.

The problem with political correctness is when it becomes bullying, in the form of getting people fired or kicking them out of an organization.

But aside from that, I wonder why the PC crowd demands apologies. What good is a forced apology?

Anyone can claim to be offended by nearly anything. So aside from a direct, personal threat to a person (which I wouldn't do), if I say something that someone else is "offended" by, and they demand a forced apology. I'll give it to them -- as many times as they want. Anyone can issue hollow apologies.

[noamnety]

38. tombstoned.

but for the sake of other readers I want to point out that this poster has confused the bullier (those using slurs) with the bullied.

[cynatnite]

17. Since when is political correctness ugly? n/t

[derby378]

32. With a tip of the hat to wtmusic...

...I think the problem with political correctness is in its ability to become institutionalized or dogmatized.

When I was a child, I resolved to start calling people such as the Sioux, Comanche, and Chickasaw "Native Americans" instead of "American Indians," even though my mom thought I was out of step for doing so. The thing is, we all knew that the term "Indian" was a mistake borne out of Columbus' imperfect reckoning of geography, and as many injustices as the Native Americans have suffered at the hands of the US government over time, addressing them with a blanket term that recognizes their true role in our history and society is the very least we could do.

I actually like the Canadian term "First Nations," too. Most of these tribes were nomadic, true, but they were and still are distinct ethnicities that have just as much right to self-preservation as the Romani, Mongols, Scythians, Amazons, and any other nomadic people.

I realize that this doesn't have much to do with my original statement, but my motivation for referring to native tribes as "Native Americans" came from an awakening of consciousness from within myself, as opposed to being imposed upon myself from without. If attempts to promote sensitivity are preceived as too heavy-handed, they will usually backfire.

[butterfly77]

18. The thing that is so ridiculous is the fact that..

this Alaskan wench is back at it again using her children for political and monetary gain.

[Iggo]

20. Every goddam day.

[asjr]

22. Political correctness has gone so far

overboard it has lost meaning. We spend so much time apologizing for something said on the spur of the moment it becomes the thought for the whole day. "Retarded" is a word coined long ago and at one time was perfectly acceptable to denote someone with challenges. That doesn't make it right and I am not a fan of Emmanuel, but that obviously slipped out. If it had been a Republican who said it he or she could have gotten by with it. After all, Republicans really understand Retarded. In all my years I have never seen so much name-calling as I do now. It has replaced decent dialog and items that are worth discussing.

[NC_Nurse]

23. I grew up in the sixties with a "retarded" brother. My son also has a mild

developmental disorder. While I understand the hurt that people go through over these terms, I also know that you can change them every year to something more PC
and it will eventually become the insult. The original terms for the mentally disabled were idiot and moron. Look at what they mean now. Retarded was once the adjective to describe someone
whose learning was slowed down by disability, I'm sure originally they thought that it would be a better term. Wrong. These days "special" and "challenged" can be insults too. I think
that when these terms are used as an insult, it usually has nothing to do with those who actually HAVE these disabilities. One can spend a lot of time being hurt and offended by other's insensitivities, or one can refuse to take them personally.

I think it's pretty telling that Palin has suddenly become the PC police on these terms. The longer you deal with this issue, the more you choose your battles. I don't think beating people over the head with your point will ever help those with disabilities to be more accepted or respected. It just brings more resentment on those who don't need it.

Having had to deal with this issue over many years, I have to say that things have changed a lot in that time. Not because someone got on TV and freaked out over other peoples insults, but because they spent their time and energy creating support and treatment for those who require it. They weren't using their kids as political footballs to beat others over the head with. They were fighting to obtain resources for them, not cutting funds while simultaneously using them for public gain. Just sayin.

[pipi_k]

25. It's gotten to the point where

I'm honestly wary of saying much of anything at all for fear that I'm going to end up offending someone.

I seem to have this peculiar talent for doing that, even though I don't consciously set out to be offensive. Usually.

When I'm actually trying to be offensive, I give it my whole and unashamed attention.

But for the most part, I'm just a person minding her own business trying the best way she knows to communicate when communication isn't an easy thing for her.

I'm all for not offending or shaming others for their differences, but geez...it's really gotten ridiculous when there are always the PC Police out there ready to jump down the throats of anyone they feel is being "racist" or "sexist" or "ageist" or whatever kind of "ist" exists in the world.

Sometimes an "offensive" comment is merely a slip of the tongue (especially, as someone in another thread pointed out, for those of us old enough to remember when such words were acceptable) and not "evidence" of whatever ISM the PC Police want to pin on those of us who do unintentionally offend.

The PC Police get really old and tiresome after a while.

[kctim]

26. Ah, emotions

the perfect weapon to use to silence and take away rights.
Free speech? Sure, say what you want, just as long as I agree with it.

PC is BS.

[Jim__]

27. The word doesn't usually bother me.

But, I do have friends with retarded members in their family. It does bother me if someone uses the term as an insult when they're around. So, I obviously think the term is (or at least could be) offensive when used as an insult in the presence of people who are personally connected to retarded people. Knowing that, I don't use the word retarded as an insult. I don't find this particularly limiting when I want to insult someone.

So, you can label it political correctness. I'll just call it simple consideration for other people.

[kctim]

28. Ah, emotions

the perfect weapon to use to silence and take away rights.
Free speech? Sure, say what you want, just as long as I agree with it.

PC is BS.

[noamnety]

41. This post doesn't demonstrate an understanding of the concept of "free speech." (nt)

[LanternWaste]

50. Or, to put it another way, "civility and manners are BS".

"PC is BS."

Or, to put it another way, "civility and manners are BS". I imagine we all advertise our class in one way or another...

[kctim]

52. No

pushing ones personal opinion of civility and manners onto others is what is BS. And expecting an apology, or trying to impose guilt to get an apology, from somebody who doesn't have a corncob stuck up their ass, is pathetic.

[backscatter712]

30. I know I've been guilty of saying the exact things Rahm said.

I've referred to those folks at Free Republic as "Freeptards", I've used insults like "They rode the short bus", and used words like "special" as insults.

We need to come up with new pejoratives...

[jgraz]

34. The language is changing. "Idiot", "imbecile" and "moron" used to be medical terms.

Twenty years from now, "retarded" will probably be just another synonym for "stupid".

Personally, I think it's much more offensive to call a developmentally disabled person "retarded" than it is to direct the word at your run-of-the-mill dumbass.

[seabeyond]

36. i had a post i used retarded. not as in someones iq, but messed up

it was deleted. i did not get why the post was deleted. didnt see anything offensive. moderator told me asue i used that word. people are sensitive to it

since, i have wanted to use it for exactly the same reason. messed up. so i typed messed up. lol. i can hang with others sensitivities. live and learn

[Goldstein1984]

37. Balance in all things

Cultural evolution is continuous. Our nation is just learning how to deal with diversity. The world is just beginning to listen to all cultures, not just the dominant cultures. It's difficult to predict what someone will be sensitive about, and even subcultures disagree internally about what is offensive and what isn't.

My wife is an Alaska Native, and she withdrew from Alaska Native activism years ago over just these sorts of issues. In her last political event, she was asked to leave a board meeting for saying these exact words: "Has it occurred to anyone but me that maybe the solution to this problem isn't to ask White people for another grant?" Thirty years ago it was politically incorrect within the Alaska Native community, at least in that subgroup, to suggest that Alaska Natives might be partly responsible for their problems. Now there are commercials run routinely on television advocating exactly the policies my wife advocated twenty years ago. As she explains it, "Being empowered and responsible is now politically correct, whereas being a victim was in vogue back then." When asked about Alaska Native political issues today, she just answers, "We eat our own." These are her views, and I'm only an observer.

Yes, I know the big picture is more complicated than that, which is why I can tell that story to one group of Alaska Natives and hear my wife praised, and yet hear her condemned when I recount the event to a different group.

Years ago, when I worked for the government, a criminal investigator and I were working an issue and we stopped for lunch. During our conversation, I referred to one of the witnesses we were preparing to interview as "African American." My friend responded, "Please don't do that shit with me. I've been Black ever since I stopped being Colored. Nobody in my family has been in Africa for over a hundred years, and we vacation in Mexico. Pass the salt." That conversation became a running joke with us, and he introduces me as his "European American friend."

My company has a client that refuses to allow employees to hang up Dilbert comic strips because they view them as discriminatory and harassing behavior directed toward managers. This is interesting, because the "discrimination meme" usually assumes that discrimination is directed at those in a position of disadvantage ("victims" of discrimination). Some of the high-level managers in the company make over $90K per month, and yet they need protection from a $13/hr Administrative Assistant trying to enjoy a little lampooning of bureaucracy and corporate life. But management considers "Dilbert" to be part of a "HIRD (Hostile, Intimidating, Retaliatory and Discriminatory) Environment." Complicated.

I refer to my best buddy, a German shepherd that literally saved my life when he was only 13 months old, as my Canine American friend. My reason is that "dog" and "pet" don't do his role in my life justice. He's also an import from the Czech Republic, and we refer to his AKC registration as his citizenship papers. That has offended people. We don't care, because we think it says something about the character of a person who is so easily offended.

Political correctness aside, whenever I think about this idea of offending people with speech, I remember the words of my philosophy and history professors (both extremely liberal) way back in community college (30 years ago):

"If you aren't offending someone, you probably aren't saying anything important." ~ Philosophy Professor.

"The Constitution guarantees freedom of expression; it doesn't guarantee freedom from being offended by another's expression." ~ History Professor.

But communication is all about sharing ideas and influencing others. That goal has to be kept in mind. There are shelves full of books on the subject. Offending someone can be a tool for waking them up and getting their attention; or it can be an instant turnoff and a barrier to communication.

You are going to offend people's sensibilities because sensibilities are not only cultural, they're individual, and very changing constantly. People are going to be offended by this post. As I write it, I can easily imagine somebody alerting on it. But they ignore intent and assume ill will where there is none. I think it's enough that we don't offend people maliciously, that we respect others emotions when we encounter then, and that we remain open-minded and learn as we go.

Political correctness, with all of its elements and implications, is a complicated subject.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

44. You know, most of the time it seems like people who are irritated by

"political correctness" are the same people who don't understand that they don't get to decide when someone else's feelings are hurt and who have a little trouble respecting other people.

It's odd and I'm not meaning to direct this at you because the idea that there is such a thing as "political correctness" is widely held. But that's just how it seems to work out.

[cry baby]

45. you should follow your heart. if offending someone is your intention, then go for it.

if you are trying to express a thought that is more than an insult, then maybe using words that won't offend is a better tool for communicating in a more effective way.

I, personally, don't feel like I can argue in a clean, fair manner using pejoratives like "retarded", or other name calling.

[blueworld]

46. Very classy post & apology - many of us can learn from that also

I would agree that PC can actually be very educational and help instill awareness in all of us. However, I do think that some folks who label themselves "sensitive" are actually oversensitive. Nonetheless, I would apologize if someone were offended by my turn of phrase simply because I value a person's feelings and/or the DU Community as a whole.

A big problem I've noticed here lately, as more experienced DUers have already posted elsewhere, is that there are more than a few little snarky souls who not only consider themselves word police & cultural educators, but are rude or sarcastic when trying to make their point. Ego trip.

Even in the interests of kindness & common welfare, I think it would be a huge mistake & virtually impossible to neuter language altogether, or make it sterile of offense. With obvious exceptions such as racism, tolerance is as important a virtue as awareness.

I can't tell you how many of my friends of all colors still use the phrase "out in the boonies"; the rest of us don't feel the need to file a Civil Rights complaint or drag out the MLK tapes. Nor do we attack each other verbally. We communicate.

[LanternWaste]

47. I've never perceived it as stifling my own speech,

"Should our hesitancy to offend anyone be such that we find ourselves stifling our own speech"

I've never perceived it as stifling my own speech, but rather a practical and civil way to better convey my meaning in a manner that has as little room for offensive interpretation as possible. I certainly don't see that as being PC (I read criticism of PC to mean little more than carte-blanche to be as rude as I want), instead I see it as being civil and polite.

Now, I certainly understand that many, many people believe that truthfulness and manners are mutually exclusive concepts (I've been told that in so many words on DU time after time), but I myself have never been presented with a relevant truth that cannot be told while denying civility. Indeed, the more ways I look at ways in which to present an idea or an opinion, the more ways I find there are to convey the same in a wholly proper manner, acceptable to both audience and speaker.

While that may seem like a lot of work to many people, it's actually much less work than it takes to be snarky-- both habits we can excel in if given the time and the inclination. One of the two choices makes us better people, while the other choice diminishes us on both a personal and a collective level.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. It is about one's objectives. If you wish to be understood

it is best to avoid using words that are thought of as slurs, even if you think they are not slurs. If what you want is to display status, then do as Rahm does. Personally, when I paid people to represent me, they were expected to make me look good, and were not welcome to speak to others in ways I would not myself speak to them. Representing the President, either this is how the President speaks, or Rahm needs a reminder.

[ieoeja]

49. A list of politically incorrect phrases.

"I am Gay."

"I am an Atheist."

"Some American soldiers in Iraq did truly horrible things and should be punished."


I think you get my drift. The cases of political correctness that will get you in the most hot water are the conservatively correct ones. These are the ones that will have you virtually universally labeled evil and un-American. These can get you fired from your job with vitually no outrage.

[KonaKane]

51. Is there something wrong with showing a basic respect?

I guess I'll be the odd man out here and say I never saw anything wrong with political correctness. Sure it can be taken to extremes sometimes but that doesn't take away from its original purpose, which was an attempt to introduce some badly needed respect in our language.

Does anybody have a problem with respect?