Failure Rate of AP Tests Up

[erpowers]

It is being reported on USA Today's website that the failure rate for AP tests is increasing. I started this post because I had noticed that someone had posted information from the Washington Post that was questioning the success of AP classes. The USA Today article gives some more information on the topic.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-02-04-1Aapscores04_ST_N.htm

[grantcart]

1. It may be that they are trying to push more students into AP classes

who are not willing or able to meet the higher standard.

I saw this happen with my daughters friends.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. That is exactly what they're doing

Because someone got the fucked up notion that having a high number of AP test takers was indicative of a quality school and started using it as a part of their rankings. It's ludicrous.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. I took AP courses. My AP and SAT scores went through the roof

But my ACT scores were not high enough to get me into a state university.

I learned at a young age not to trust these tests. :)

[liberal_at_heart]

8. Do you have to take both the SAT and the ACT?

I thought most students chose one or the other.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Yes I went to private school and we had to take them all

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. One of these days I pray that someone other than teachers

finally figures out that test scores (and in this case on college level material!) are not the best way to assess how well our kids are learning.

But I am not holding my breath.

[enlightenment]

6. I don't know about the maths and sciences, but the History AP

exams are pure essay. The students are given an essay question (the usual sort, that contains multiple 'questions' within the whole that need to be addressed) and related source materials - a primary source document, perhaps an image or images relevant to the question, etc.

Graders (most of whom are college instructors) look for a variety of skills when assessing these exams: content knowledge, critical thinking ability, writing ability, and so on.

Short of oral examination, what method of assessment do you think would be appropriate?

[liberal_at_heart]

9. I think that grade averages such as grade point averages are better than stardardized tests

If a student is demonstrating that they have mastered the curricula all year long then why is it necessary to have these standardized tests? I think that putting too much emphasis on one test score is too unrealistic.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Portfolio Based Assessment is much better

Let's look at a semester's worth of work instead of a test taken on one day.

[enlightenment]

19. They do - the AP exam is designed to determine if they have

the knowledge and skills to 'comp' out of basic undergraduate college classes and move directly to the next level of coursework.

Student's who take AP classes in high school are given work throughout the term and are assessed for that work as they would be in any other course. They may pass the class with flying colors or barely scrape through. Having taken the course, they are eligible (not forced) to take the AP exam - which is not comprehensive in any way.

For instance, say a student takes AP US History. They are assessed throughout the course by their teacher. At the end of the term, they decide if they want to take the AP exam.

The exam does not ask them a comprehensive "Consider everything you learned about US history from the beginning to now and answer . . ." questions. The questions do range across time, but are not "tell me everything you know" - they are more specific.

The papers are not graded by the teachers that taught the courses. They are sent to a central location and graded - together with all the other exams taken for that course. As I mentioned before, most of the graders are college instructors who teach the college level courses that the students took at the high school level.

No single assessment is 'best' - but in the case of the AP, it is a fairly good indicator of what it is designed to assess - whether or not a high school student has developed the skills and ability to pass an undergraduate history course.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. It is still one exam on one day

I don't find this to be a good way to determine if kids learned the material.

I understand what you are saying about the work throughout the term but one test on one day is just not a good means of measurement.

[enlightenment]

28. Actually, I agree with you.

;)

I give tests, of course - because student's actually get antsy if they don't get them - but percentage wise they aren't worth more than other types of assessment (papers/discussion responses/other assignments).

But I teach college, not high school, so I have a lot more leeway in how I design my courses.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. You are living in my dream world

You actually get to design your own courses. :loveya:

[tinymontgomery]

5. A lot of kids

A lot of kids get into the AP class because the administration doesn't want to fight the parent who thinks their kid is a genius. It is easier to just put them there and then let them fail the AP test. At least that has been my experience with 6 years at the same school.

[Dappleganger]

14. +1

[zazen]

7. pushing avg kids into AP classes supposedly increases their interest in college

That's one of the going theories. Average and underachieving kids might actually be more challenged in an AP class, and if they do reasonably well in the class but score even a 1- 2, they recognize that they're capable to doing some college-level work. Also, it teaches them about what standard of work is required in college so they can be better prepared.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but this is the language I've heard by those who think it "democratizes" education.

My daughter is slated to take 10 AP classes in the next two years, because they're no other courses left for her to take. I'm happy about the $10k minimum in college tuition it will save us, but I think taking the actual college classes two-three days a week would be a helluva lot easier and less pressure. At least she could sleep.

[JPZenger]

10. My kids school: more AP students, everyone takes test free

In my kid's urban high school, there has been a big increase in the number of students taking AP classes. Inevitably that waters down the classes, because it is not only the best students taking them. Moreover, in my kid's school, everyone who takes an AP class must take the test, which the District pays for. In the past, kids had to pay for the tests and they only took them if they thought they had a good chance of getting credit.

[Dappleganger]

13. AP classes help keep my son in school.

He'd be bored to death if it wasn't for the challenge they present.

I agree with the person who said that too many parents are pushing their kids into the classes, however. They tend to have quite a few drop out/change after a few weeks. Parents tend to hover too much in this area and don't listen to their kid tell them what's really going on.

[KharmaTrain]

17. My Kids Benefitted From AP Classes...And I Did, Too...

Both of my kids were in AP classes that were a great help in them gaining admission to the colleges of their choice and then to apply for schollarships. They earned it and gave them a big sense of accomplishment at an age where that type of acceptance is important. They also shortened their college...my daughter was able to graduate in 3 years as her AP classes and scores helped her cut down the number of General Studioes classes she had to take...and at $15,000 a semester, I saved as well.

[liberal_at_heart]

18. I think that parents have to be aware of their children's talents and capabilities

Your kids were obviously capable of handling these classes. I think that parents need to take their cues from the children and the teachers. My daughter received a letter stating that she could take a test to see if she qualified for an AP science class but the science teachers at her school were worried that if they skipped some fundamentals they might struggle and told parents and children to be careful in their decisions to take the test that would qualify them for the AP class. We decided against her taking the test. I'm gald we made that decision. They have been introduced to physics this year which she has never seen before. She had to stay after school some to understand the fundamental ideas of physics. If she had taken an AP class I believe she would have struggled. Now in math on the other hand I have received news from her teacher that she is excelling in her math class and congratulated her and stated he thought she had the patience of a teacher in helping her fellow classmates understand the material. She comes home excited and confident in her math skills. I have to say I just might consider letting her take an AP math class.

[Dappleganger]

25. It's great to hear of girls being excited about math...

too often this is discouraged at the high school level in our experience. I wish your daughter the best of success!

[rocktivity]

15. I'm not surprised

Most of the Associated Press stories I read certainly fail.

:evilgrin:
rocktivity

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. LOL

[madfloridian]

16. Here is more on a new documentary about it...

NYT examines how Advanced Placement classes may take place of real learning.

It's called Race to Nowhere.

"In 2008, 2.3 million AP exams were given in the U. S., which put $190,900,000 into the coffers of the College Board. And as family budgets shrink, along with the amount that colleges have to offer the needed number of classes for undergraduates, the AP exam seems poised to, indeed, replace many college freshman courses that offer real learning to students. Trading real coursework for cram courses that prepare students to take a test and forget it will have dire consequences, however, when it comes the important job of transmitting our culture to the next generation.

A new documentary, Race to Nowhere, examines this spreading phenomenon of AP classes replacing real learning. Here is a clip posted originally posted at the New York Times on Jan. 25"

[FarCenter]

20. Well, the students still have to suceed at the rest of their college courses

Freshman courses are some of the dreariest of all.

And economically, it is well worth the cost of the AP tests if the student graduates in 6 or 7 semesters instead of 8.

[kiva]

21. I scored AP exams for five years, and was told

(not officially, but through general discussion) that some states - I think one may have been S. Carolina - were having all of their students take the AP exam, and so it would not be surprising if kids who didn't take AP classes were bringing the scores down. I do know that there were a substantial number of exams that were blank, had a sentence to the effect of 'I have no idea', or had hand turkeys or other drawings.

[Spike89]

22. The inverse of holding low-scoring kids out of testing

Statistics that compare unlike populations are worse than useless, they can actually lead to making changes that are actually counterproductive. So much talk in education circles these days is about "data-driven decision making" but too often the credibility of the data is never questioned.

The article makes it very clear that the number of students taking the tests has dramatically risen (about 250%!) in just a decade. Obviously it is not an "elite" population taking it any longer. Additionally, this is primarily a self-selected group--a huge red flag for anyone studying trends--for example, maybe it has become "uncool" not to take the test, even if you fail (or maybe there was simply a bigger stigma for failing in 1999).

Basically, this says almost nothing useful about the state of education or the students of today. It only really reflects changes in the way the AP tests are taken.

[anonymous171]

24. AP classes = Cramming lessons

[mzteris]

26. instead of kids having a class

and then taking the test 'cause they learned something,

now they're cramming for the test and not really learning anything.

Sad, really.