Rethinking the High School curriculum

[dkf]

" Imagine the following HS requirements being recommend to the School Board:
• 3 years of economics and business
• 2 courses in philosophy – one in logic, the other in ethics
• 2 years of psychology, with special emphasis on child development and family relations
• 2 years of mathematics, focusing on probability and statistics
• 4 years of Language Arts, but with a major focus on semiotics and oral proficiency
• US and World history, taught as Current Events - backwards from the present
• 1 Year of Graphics Design, Desktop Publishing, and Multimedia presentation

Outrageous? Hardly – if we do an analysis of what most graduates actually need and will use in professional, civic, and personal life. How odd it is that we do not require oral proficiency when every graduate will need the ability. How absurd it is in this day and age that students aren’t required to understand the capitalist system. How sad it is that physics is viewed as more important than psychology, as parents struggle to raise children wisely and families work hard to understand one another. Requirements based on pre-modern academic priorities and schooling predicated on the old view that few people would graduate and fewer still would go on to college make no sense. Ask any adult: how much algebra did you use this past week?"

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/2/6/834419/-students-should-graduate-with-a-rsum,-not-a-transcript

How funny that I was telling my coworker today that our kids don't get taught the important things in high school, about real world situations like how to handle your finances, and how the Government and its laws and institutions affect your life. I do think that algebra is helpful, as is the concepts of calculus. Trig and geometry, not so much. At least for me.

[Speck Tater]

1. I guess it depends on one's career path. I used algebra and calculus every day when I worked.

I don't use them, so much now that I'm retired, but as an engineer specializing in aerodynamics it would have been hard for me to do without them.

As a general rule, however, that course list looks really sensible. I'd vote for it.

[tonysam]

18. Very few jobs require algebra and any higher math.

Let's be honest here. I NEVER had to use any of it in my entire working career. Few people have.

The last thing we need are students forcefed college-level courses. They need vocational training such as carpentry, office administration and the like, where the real jobs are.

How many people on this board have "only" a high school education? Very few. And that alone tells me DU is not representative of the real world.

[Catshrink]

20. What about the German system?

Kids have a common curriculum until I think the 8th grade or so then differentiate to vocational or college tracks. Oops. Tracking. My bad.

I think it's something we should be looking at. The Obama-Duncan scam seems to want all kids molded into college material and that's one reason it's doomed to fail: not all kids have the interest in college even if they have IQs of 125+. Our education system doesn't meet their needs and the charters-are-the-best model doesn't either.

PS cuz I don't say this enough tonysam: :loveya:

[MindPilot]

69. Algebra is everywhere

Let's say I'm a contractor. I have to drywall, mud & tape and finish a room. How many sheets of drywall do I need? Code requires a fastener every seven inches in the field; how many screws do I need? What is the coverage and drying time for the mud? The paint covers 80 square feet per gallon and my spraying equipment needs it thinned at 10% while I'm going to lose roughly 8% to over-spray. How much paint do I need? How long will each part of the job take? How many helpers can I afford to hire without losing money on the job and how much should I bid the job for?

That is all algebra.

[fishwax]

76. and not just on the job, but in everyday life, like shopping at the grocery store

If I want to be sure I have enough money for the large pizza and the cheese sticks, do I have to buy the 12-pack of Natty Light or can I get a couple six packs from my favorite microbrews?

[Captain Hilts]

2. Cut a year of psychology and add one on basic electronics. Everything's electrical now. nt

[patrice]

5. Re the time-crunch created by competing interests, see my post below.

[Jkid]

3. I agree with this. All state educational deparmtent should reconsider this.

Real world situations should definitely be in the high school curriculum. Parents may not have the time do these things for them. The current situation implies that they will figure out how to handle these real life things on their own. But it's not the case.

High school students should also learn more about their state, county, and city where they live and how their government's functions.

[patrice]

4. + Lifelong - Year-'round schooling.

[Catshrink]

6. Yeah, fuck science

who needs it? Who needs critical thinking skills to be able to sort out bogus claims from real studies based on reliable research methdods? Why teach kids about earth science? The Bible says the Earth is 6000 years old and that's enough science. Nuclear science? Let the French do it.

Geeze. Americans are scientifically illiterate as it is in an icreasingly technical world. The kids in school today are tomorrow's voters -- I would think that if they will be voting on building new nuclear power plants, for example, they should know something about how it works. Climate change initiatives? Man, all that snow in DC means there is no global warming so let's drill, baby, drill. Some quack in England says there's a link between autism and vaccines but has no research evidence to base it on so hey, let's not vaccinate our kids just in case.

[cali]

7. only if they come out of 8th grade prepared

and most don't.

[annabanana]

8. Could you please throw a coupla years of *CIVICS* into that pot?

Then I'd say go for it...

[Posteritatis]

80. Or any science at all, for that matter?

I know people hate science these days, but damn.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Our curriculum is driven by what is tested. That is the current reality.

If you really want our high schools to address the actual needs of our kids, then lobby hard to get rid of NCLB.

And if you hadn't noticed, Obama is injecting this insane law with steroids. Arne Duncan is far worse than Rod Paige. And yes, it pains me to type that. :cry:

[Catshrink]

10. I think we'd all rather be one of Paige's "terrorists" than

Arne's disposables. This administration is conspiring with corporists and noneducators to dismantle public education. When the public realizes what's going on, it will be too late.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. I think it is already too late

My perspective is as an urban educator. And we have lost our urban kids. I have waited for real reform that addresses their needs and finally makes our urban schools equitable. But I gave up when Obama appointed Arne.

I used to think that as soon as the suburban districts had to face the failing test scores crap that they would wake up and we would all benefit. But in the meantime, the 'our schools are FAILING' movement has taken over the conversation. Damn.

[lazer47]

11. How about we teach them Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic,

Most kids I know today can't even make change.....

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Well there's proof!

:sarcasm:

[lazer47]

19. There ya go, let them stay stupid, The Chinese love it, that way

they can keep on scoring higher than American school children..and Rush and Beckerhead can keep on having a audience of uneducated followers,,,,,,,,,

[Catshrink]

21. And that's because the Chinese only teach their kids Readin' Writin' & 'rithmetic?

There's a leap.

:sarcasm:

[lazer47]

23. 'rithmetic????,,, That is not a leap,, that is just a fact,,,,,

[Catshrink]

25. You're saying that's all the Chinese teach their kids?

Wow. Just fucking wow. I never would have guessed that.

[lazer47]

30. No that is not what I am saying,,,, However the Chinese concentrate more

on learning the basics and then let them expand into other areas,, it is like learning Trig. first you have to learn Simple Algebra, before that you have to learn simple addition and division and multiplication,,,, things that the politic ans have let administrators forget,,,, just to graduate little Johnny and move him right along.....

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Interesting you would bring up facts

So far, you have posted only your OPINIONS that kids can't count change because YOU know kids who can't count change. And Chinese kids are better educated because - well you didn't offer any evidence proving THAT claim. So just another opinion.

I teach 3rd graders the difference between fact and opinion and their critical thinking skills are better than the ones you have displayed so far in this thread.

Oh and I watched 6 kids count change and do it accurately on Thursday. So that means you are wrong. Kids can count change:)

[lazer47]

41. I guess that just goes to show your more opinionated than I am

for every child you teach to count change,, I can show you 10 at Wal-Mart that can't...

[Catshrink]

43. You're using the low end to extrapolate to all of education.

Who works in retail? Are they the top achievers in HS? Are they the middle achievers? Are they the students who go on to college or votech schools? No. They are the students who couldn't or wouldn't apply themselves in school so they're stuck in low wage retail jobs. They do not represent all students who pass through our doors but only a small subset. You just see more of them so because you encounter them so often. But they aren't the whole story.

[lazer47]

47. I realize that, however they are the ones that most of us see,,

and I for one see a dumbing down of the up and coming generation,, and it is only my opinion based on what I see everyday,,,,

[Catshrink]

49. based on the fact that the cashier at Wal-Mart can't make change.

As I said, they are not the swiftest and should not be used to generalize to the entire population. The snarky cynic in me just thought of this, and I know it's not very nice, and it isn't directed at you, just a general comment.

[lazer47]

54. I have never claimed to be smart,, when I was in High School

if somebody had of let the air out of the football, I wouldn't have bothered to go,,,did not learn a second language,,However I can make change, and still repeat from heart the Gettysburg Address, most Kids today can't tell you what state Gettysburg is in,,,I am hopeful for the next generation, however I am a bit cynical about it

[jmowreader]

92. Real nice view of retail

They're also the people who were in skilled technical jobs that got sent to China. People gotta eat, y'know?

And don't say "well they should just move." If they could afford to, they would.

[fishwax]

64. there are also older adults who can't count change

Maybe you just notice it more in kids.

[Bill McBlueState]

67. what exactly do you mean by "count change"?

The cash register says you should get $3.92 back, and the employee is unable to give you the correct combination of bills and coins? Or do you mean something else?

[CrispyQ]

24. About a week ago my total at a store was $17.81.

I handed the clerk a $20 & he entered the amount. The change amount displayed was $2.19. "Oh, wait, I have a penney," I said as I handed it to him. He was stumped. He had no idea how much to give back to me! ~gasp! So he gave me the $2.19 & then said, "Here's your penney back." :wow:

[Catshrink]

26. Well that's damning.

:sarcasm:

[CrispyQ]

31. You sure have a lot of sarcasm to share this morning.

It's not damning - it's a commentary on the state of our educational system. This was not an isolated incident. I've seen clerks enter the wrong amount that the customer gave them, & for the life of the checker, they cannot figure out how much change to return to the customer. This is a very serious problem & contributes to the dumbing down of our society & thus, the easy manipulation of citizens.

[lazer47]

36. You have just said what I have been trying to say all morning, but better

[Odin2005]

42. I one worked with a woman about my age (23) that couldn't do 12x2=24.

:crazy:

[MindPilot]

55. I don't know how they function...

If you think about it you use math all day every day. Maybe you're not analyzing vectors or factoring quadratics but even something as simple as "can I get home in time to catch Keith?" is at its core an algebra problem.

[Odin2005]

57. Yep. I found it shocking.

Arithmetic ability runs in my family and I have minor savant-ish abilities to do arithmetic in my head, I NEVER had a problem with it. Yet some people can't even do basic operations like 2x12?

[Codeine]

78. I work with a few young adults

who are actually incapable of telling time with a standard clock. Grown adults with families, jobs, and homes! They understand time, they can manage a schedule, they're not unintelligent, but they were only exposed to digital clocks from childhood up to - apparently - the time they were hired by our company.

Even their schools used digital clocks because so many children had issues with standard clockfaces.

[Odin2005]

79. I prefer digital clocks because they are easier to read, but I can read an analog one just fine.

My God, learning how to read clocks was something I learned in Kindergarten!

[Codeine]

48. I find it amusing

that you condemn this kid for not knowing how to handle your change, yet you misspelled "penny" twice. ;)

[fishwax]

65. amusing indeed

:thumbsup:

[enlightenment]

13. And we would still be behind the rest of the world.

I am so sick and tired of student's telling me "I don't need this" and "what good will this do me?" or any of their other sorry whinges. When education becomes nothing more than a means to an end, the battle is lost.

Rather than pandering to those who feel they should only have to learn what they want to learn, we should be instilling a love of learning - for the sake of knowing rather than as a means to achieve some often ill-defined goal.

*and as someone who teaches history? Teaching it from the present backward is the wet-dream of every student who SLEPT through their courses. That 'method' is about as useful as starting with a dirty plate and working back to the ingredients of the foods that were on it a couple of hours before. But if you're someone who sees no real value in learning (as that writer is), it makes perfect sense . . .*

[CrispyQ]

35. Your second paragraph is the most spot on comment in this thread!

My mother didn't do that. She didn't disdain knowledge or intellect, but she didn't encourage me in that regard, either. Luckily, I somehow picked up on the love of learning in my mid-twenties & that change in perspective has benefited me in ways I cannot begin to count!

:hi:

[jobendorfer]

14. one of the things that is essential in a democracy

is critical thinking skills.

For instance, with a bit of probability and statistics, you can teach the rudiments of hypothesis testing and experimental design.
I'm for anything and everything that helps people understand how much reliance they can put on what they hear, and how to critically examine their own thought processes.

But as either of these, or any of the above, would require the curriculum to make at least partial concessions to reality, I doubt they will happen.

I suspect some of us might read the above as de-emphasizing the traditional hard sciences. I think I see the writer's point, though: everyone is born into a family
system of some kind, the overwhelming majority of us go on to become parents. Thus some understanding of human development and the dynamics of family systems is critical
for everyone. By comparison very few of us go into engineering, the health professions, or academic science careers. (I'm taking a 400-level classical mechanics course
at the moment, so I assume the class size of ~25 is on the order of the number of physics majors ... at a university with 30,000 students.)


The other thing that it really would have been useful to learn in high school is some basic plumbing skills.
Young men, I'm here to tell you: women think nice guys who can fix plumbing are GODS. Seriously. :-)


J,
pushing fifty and still trying to sort it all out

[MindPilot]

44. My plumber is also a good friend.

I swear that guy gets laid constantly! It helps that he is well-built and good looking, but so am I, yet all he has to do is take out his business card and her clothes fall off. I think they're hoping for a discount... :D

[XemaSab]

74. Basic plumbing, basic carpentry, basic auto repair, basic sewing, basic medicine, and basic cooking

would all be taught in XemaSab High. :D

And I'm talking BASIC... how to change a tire, how to use jumper cables, how to change the oil, how to change the light bulbs, what the different parts are under the hood and what they do... stuff like that. In short, enough stuff so that you don't get ripped off at the mechanic. :P

The likelihood that a kid will one day need to know the quadratic equation: not so high. The likelihood that a kid will one day have a flat tire: extremely high.

[Odin2005]

81. I am grateful, as a guy, to have taken Home Economics.

I swear, I'm the only male among other people my age that knows how to cook a decent meal and keep my place clean. In fact when I'm at my mom's for a holiday I'm usually the one who makes the pie because I am better at it than my mom!

[etherealtruth]

16. I'd want to see more math and science

Much more

[tonysam]

17. The kids need VOCATIONAL education, and lot less of college prep.

The OP's suggestions have no bearing on the real world. More elitist garbage from somebody who hasn't a clue that students need job skills for the real jobs in the real world.

[Odin2005]

29. YAY, more corporate drone taining! Work! Consume! Obey!

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Make money!

Since the mechanics at my local car dealer make more money than teachers, she has a point. :)

[MindPilot]

39. yeah we really have to get past this idea that only stupid people get their hands dirty

Plumbers carpenters, electricians, mechanics -- all jobs that require people & management skills, with lots of math and science. And all jobs that can never ever be off-shored.

[Odin2005]

40. In the old days people in hands-on jobs got trained on-the-job by their employers.

Education is not the same thing as training. Training gives you a skill. education makes you a good citizen.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. And those employers pressured school districts to train students in high school

so they wouldn't have to spend money training them on the job. It's all part of our current education history. :)

[Odin2005]

46. Yup. Ain't outsourcing wonderful?

:puke:

[MindPilot]

50. There used to be many formal apprenticeship programs too.

But even then people accepted into those programs were expected to come in with a certain level of skill in tool identification and usage, practical math and some fundamental science like chemistry and physics.

In my high school we had electronics shop, auto shop, wood shop, metal shop, plastic shop, construction trades, lapidary, fabrics & upholstery shop, culinary arts, and glass & ceramics shop.

Not everybody is college material, but it seems like the educational system has kind of dismissed that segment of the population and just assumes that all students are on a college track.

[Rabrrrrrr]

91. That's right! Screw making well-rounded people; start the job training at age 8!!

Fuck learning!

Fuck education!

Fuck knowing anything beyond what will be immediately needed to do some shit drone job for the plutocrats!

[slackmaster]

22. Add a year of Consumer Finance and I'm in

:hi:

People need to learn how to balance their check books, negotiate loans, etc.

[CrispyQ]

27. Some colleges are offering remedial reading classes for freshman.

I know I sound like an old fart, but when I was in college, if you needed a remedial reading class, you wouldn't have been accepted. Back then, it was expected that you graduated from HS with basic reading & math skills.

[hayu_lol]

38. Crispy, most of our 'old farts' got a pretty decent education...

out of our public school training. We learned to read, write, spell, calculate at a level of proficiency not demonstrated by the younger generation on these boards. We were ready for the next step whether it was to be craft skills or college for those who wanted the higher challenge.

College is not the end all, be all, anymore. We have highly trained grads pouring out of college today who cannot get a full time meaningful job...no matter their skill level.

We definitely need more technicians, more repair people, than we need some of the college specialties. If, we are to keep our society alive.

Reading, writing, and 'rithmetic are the basics and the new kids on the block have shown us a demonstrable lack of same. And, they cannot spell.

In the 30s, 40s, and 50s, we came out of high school ready to join the adult world of work. We believed in hard work.

[enlightenment]

58. There has to be a balance.

Catshrink commented upthread that perhaps we should entertain the German model - a model that is in place in more nations than Germany. It's a recognition that not everyone needs the classic liberal arts model of higher education - but that most people do need some level of specialized training.

K-12 is the place to sort that out, rather than trying to shoehorn everyone into the various boxes we create and catering to whatever politically-correct theory is popular at the moment:

"We need to teach them more math and science" - that's nice, but that doesn't mean we'll wind up with more mathematicians and scientists and engineers, unless they are interested in those fields. Teach the basics and encourage the kids who do well AND enjoy those areas to pursue the paths, but don't try to force those who don't to 'like it'. Chances are they won't, regardless, and the most they will derive from the exercise is a generalized disdain for education in the whole.

"Everyone deserves to go to college" - umm, no. Not everyone 'deserves' it - and not everyone wants it - but we offer those that aren't college bound few alternatives. Community colleges generally offer at least some technical training, but it usually comes at a price that some are not willing to pay. Your desire may be to be an automotive technician or a chef, but you still have to take the general education requirements for the college . . . and that is enough to dissuade those who struggled to graduate high school. There are technical training schools, but many are private, for-profit, and far too expensive for many students to even contemplate.

The fundamentals are the most important. We should not be graduating high school seniors who can only read at a 4th or 5th grade level. We should not be graduating students who are incapable of writing a complete sentence - hell, I don't care if they can diagram, as long as the sentence they write is coherent. We should not be graduating students who cannot perform basic maths skills.

Those skills should be in place by the time they reach 8th grade (at the most), and if they aren't, something is very wrong. Once they have those skills, the push to discover which direction they should go can follow . . . but at the very least, they are already equipped to function in society.

[Odin2005]

60. In 23 and most things I learned I learned myself, not in a classroom

All I learned it school was rote "facts" and to not question the teacher even if he/she were wrong.

[MindPilot]

66. You will like this story then about questioning the teacher.

I was the kid who got in trouble for "reading ahead". Reading came very easy to me so I was always way above my grade level in that aspect. (Math not so much)

In maybe 3rd grade science class, the teacher said that fish breathed water. I stuck my hand up and announced that was wrong, they breath oxygen just like we do, they just have different organs to extract it from their surroundings. Sent home with a note for contradicting the teacher. My Dad, to his credit was a stickler for accuracy, and showed up the next day with an encyclopedia to show the teacher. I was not privy to that parent-teacher conference. (but I'm pretty sure he didn't throw any punches) :D

On another occasion--it may have been the same teacher--I said there were plants that eat insects. Sent home with a note for making up lies in class. Dad showed up the next day with an encyclopedia to show the teacher. I was not privy to that parent-teacher conference either.

Now that was part of that awesome public school education to which all us old guys lay claim.

[Odin2005]

68. LOL, that sounds like my experiences in school.

I was the nerdy kid always getting in trouble for proving the teacher wrong! :rofl:

[Posteritatis]

83. My favorite teacher in HS gave extra credit for arguing with him well

Didn't matter what about - obviously most of it was in class, but you could tell he'd challenge people on nonacademic things in the hallway during lunch and keep track of how well they could think on their feet. He'd occasionally deliberately get things 'wrong' in class to see if someone would call him on it, etc.

Didn't really feel like I was learning stuff in school until I met the guy.

[Odin2005]

85. I had ONE teacher like that.

My young (mid-to-late 20s), highly intellectual, Libertarian-ish senior high school history teacher. God was he awesome, and we always liked to argue politics before class. :)

[Posteritatis]

87. I caught this guy right before he retired

He said he was teaching for forty-five years but hadn't worked in forty.

The other history teacher I had in HS - I had this guy twice and the other one once - was great too. I found out when I started college that the 11th grade teacher was actually teaching a university-level European history course. (I wound up taking a global history course under that teacher's favorite prof when there.) That one liked testing students' knowledge of something by having them mention the last several steps leading up to a given fact or event.

[dkf]

88. Yup. I do my best learning from arguing.

:)

[Odin2005]

28. K&R. The Liberal Arts are vital to a vital civic society.

The obsession with "vocational education" is turning us into a nation of thoughtless corporate drones.

[MindPilot]

33. And some serious driver education. n/t

[CrispyQ]

37. Damn straight!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

51. If I were planning an educational system, there would be a strong liberal arts emphasis

through tenth grade.

The curriculum would be defined in broad terms, and it would be up to the teachers how to teach it, since every class has its own personality. In my teaching career, I had sleepy classes, hyperactive classes, super-serious classes, pleasant but bland classes, sullen classes, and everything in between.

The curriculum would include (all at age-appropriate levels, of course)

Reading (duh!) Transition the kids to reading real books as soon as possible, books that are just a tiny bit beyond their current competence, books with subject matter that will inspire discussion. As many classics of children's and young person's literature as possible.

Writing -- Thorough instruction in the mechanics of writing (spelling, punctuation, grammar) and how to structure an essay and create a sound argument

Math-- Through algebra II by the end of tenth grade. You may say, "I never needed algebra" (I certainly haven't), but not having a math background immediately closes off a vast range of careers. Even machinists need good math skills.

Social studies -- Start locally and work outward. Communities and local governments for the youngest kids, complete with field trips. The history, government, and geography of their own state. American history, government, and geography. The history, government systems, and geography of Canada and Latin America. Two years covering the history, government systems, and geography of the rest of the world.

Science -- Start with hands-on experiments and basic facts. Teach the scientific method. Starting in seventh grade, a semester each of geology and astronomy, basic chemistry in eighth, basic physics in ninth, (I'm talking about something simpler than the typical high school class), and a full-scale biology class (yes, with evolution) in tenth.

Art -- At least twice a week in all ten grades

Music -- At least three times a week in all ten grades. Every student should have the opportunity to learn an instrument and/or sight-singing.

Phys. Ed. -- Emphasis on lifetime activities, not competitive sports. Running, swimming, cycling, dancing. All healthy children have the potential to become physically fit. (No one ever told me that when I was in K-12 school. I didn't experience improved fitness till I took a required course in college. I thought that some people were just naturally fit and others weren't.)

Foreign language -- Starting in fifth grade.

Recess -- Essential, especially for younger kids

This curriculum would require small class sizes, no more than 15 in grades K-4 and no more than 20 in the higher grades.

At the end of tenth grade, students would choose either a vocational track or an academic track. The choice would be determined by their interests and aptitude. No one would be guaranteed admission to the academic track, not even the snobbiest suburban yuppie kid. Admission would depend on previous performance and genuine interest in at least one academic area.

The academic track would prepare students for an academically oriented college on either a math-science or a humanities-social sciences track. The vocational track would provide job training with any academic work that was relevant to the chosen job area. It would prepare students for either entering the job market directly or taking further vocational training at a community college. Students who felt that they had taken the wrong track would have second, third, fourth chances through the community college system.

School is more than preparing for a job. One of the things wrong with our political system is that Americans think of education solely in terms of job training. That's why you get college graduates who can serve as flawless corporate accountants and still think Bill O'Reilly is the bringer of truth.

[Odin2005]

59. I like this!

[MindPilot]

61. You cannot say "I've never needed algebra."

You use algebra day in and day out; it is so deeply ingrained you don't even notice or you may think of it as simple math but fundamentally algebra is the process of finding an unknown based on knowns and their relationships to each other. As I mentioned up-thread, you are probably not solving simultaneous equations in multiple variables, but every time you ask if you can afford something, calculate your gas mileage, or decide when you have to leave to get someplace on time, you are doing algebraic calculations.

Don't sell yourself short; you're probably pretty good at it.

[Odin2005]

82. Yep, many common problems are essentially "find X" basic Algebra.

[JVS]

52. 2 years of math is outrageously little.

[fishwax]

62. against 3 years of business

[dkf]

71. Algebra should be taught in business class.

Real world math sounds good to me.

[fishwax]

75. that's like teaching grammar in screenwriting class

Yes, proficient grammar will come in handy in a creative writing class, but it's hardly the ideal location for primary instruction. Ditto with algebra in business class.

Business class isn't necessary anyway--not for everyone and certainly not three years of it. (Economics, on the other hand ...) Of course, that doesn't mean that algebra can't be taught using real world math.

[AwakeAtLast]

86. Not if they get algegra and geometry in middle school

Which is happening in some areas.

[SoCalDem]

53. What? No Jesus?

:rofl:

[Catshrink]

56. Amen, Sister!

Let's teach cooking and sewing and auto mechanics and wood shop and plumbing and carpentry and gardening and algebra and language arts and literature and biology and consumer math and how to buy a car and physics and geometry and spanish and painting and chemistry and word processing and reading and earth science and photography and fixing your ipod and buying stocks online.... all we needs are tests to measure the teacher and we can do it. Yes we can.

[eppur_se_muova]

63. Would those philosophy courses cover false dichotomies? nt

[jtuck004]

70. dkf, that's a terrible post....what are you thinking?

Woodrow Wilson stated the only educational philosophy worth pursuing quite eloquently:

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

If we follow your prescription where would we get the laborers to do the work, pay the taxes? Sure, we have enough in resources to take care of everyone, but nobody really wants that. If it wasn't for the people in the really nice mansions, the deserving and really smart ones, what would all the rest have to strive towards? How would we keep them working? For dog's sake, we might have a whole country coming up with ideas for new ways of doing things. What would happen to our profits?

Have them take Economics and Business? Are you daft? Exposed to those subjects they might begin to think they are smart enough to own the assets. Our forethers created this country for the few, and what you are proposing is just looking for trouble. Students who understand Psychology may begin to think they are manipulated. Students who take Algebra, even if they don't work at NASA or in the local paint store (both use Algebra) will gain a better concept of numbers, and Statistics will help them begin to conceptualize when information is valuable, and when it is not. We spend a lot of corporate money in making sure "research" comes out the way we want it, and marketing the results - what you are proposing could destroy all that good work. Think, please!

Where would Henry Ford have been if thousands of people set about the task of desiging and building cars, and where we would be today? He and his family did so much good in the world by giving to poor people - if he had not become wealthy, they would have starved. The assembly line, cubicles - all these things may never have come about if people could come up with other ways of doing things. Can you see what a treacherous path this would lead us down?

I realize this is problematic, and that some students, despite our best efforts, may have read some of that socialist\communist stuff that gets them all riled up for no reason, disrupting the workplace instead of staying in their place. Despite that, if we can convince them to send their children down the same road, (tell them how History and Algebra were unecessary - "Take the Auto Mechanics class so you will have a trade, son") their sons and daughters will be available for us to use. And with any luck, for less money. Teach the women to be nurses, not doctors. Make sure everyone knows about all the great opportunities in the Army. The military is the absolute best way for us to gain a foothold in other countries where there are incredible assets ready for the taking, but we need bodies for that. Can you imagine not being able to start a war because we don't have anyone to send? HAH!

Even so, there are problems with this strategy. These other people mostly unstrustworthy anyway, else they would own real assets, so we should keep pointing out the differences between races, between men and women, between rich (good) and poor (well, certainly not good). If we can keep them busy arguing about patriotism, racism, and sexism, and instill in them a healthy trust in the corporation, they won't have time to get in trouble by learning the things we know.

The most important thing - KEEP THEM ARGUING! Make sure students in class laugh at ANYONE who attempts to learn. If they ever decide to really unite around your proposals, all the good that has come about is over.

I know well that there are always some in the community who insist on having these things in the schools. Where this is unavoidable, we can make sure the subjects are dry and boring, and focus on little things like dates and places, not on ideas and concepts. With any luck, and several failing grades, the students will develop a real distaste for learning and stay in the place they are destined for. We need so many more of those today.

And please don't suggest that the more deserving people taking classes in History and Mathematics take any carpentry or plumbing classes. Sure, they might learn much more about logical troubleshooting, but they might also pick up some nasty empathy for the workers. One shudders.

I think I understand your reason for posting this. Every once in a while someone makes the mistake of thinking that everyone deserves the same education which is offered to the more deserving. But you have to remember that most people are not capable of understanding such things, (obviously, or their family would have been rich, no?).

dkf, please be careful what you are posting. You never know what could happen...

[dkf]

72. Lol. Dangerous indeed.

Classes that specialize in pure memorization are so useless. There had got to be more of a point in what we teach our kids. And ideas are the exciting things that open up the world. You know we can't have that. We just want worker bees who put their heads down and do as they are told.

[dkf]

73. oops

[XemaSab]

77. 4 years of science, 4 years of history and government, 4 years of English

Botany, geology, chemistry, zoology, physics, physiology, soils, climatology, and more. With an emphasis on outdoor research and experience.

A semester on the founding and the revolution, a semester on ancient history, a semester on the 19th century in America, a year on the 20th century, a semester on European history prior to the 20th century, a semester on Latin America, a semester on Africa, and a semester on Asia. With geography and culture integrated into each semester, and with an emphasis on forms of government.

Two years on 20th century literature, a semester on 19th century literature, a semester on poetry, a semester on ancient literature, and a semester on grammar. The grammar would come first, and everything else would come after the appropriate history class.

So first semester freshmen would take grammar and ancient history, and second semester freshmen would take ancient literature and the history of the founding.

School is taught with no context. :(

[gtar100]

84. Add: Basic Life Skills Management

Such as:

• Keeping a checkbook and savings account registers
• Shopping for a household - food, clothes and household goods
• Maintaining a Budget
• The expenses of car ownership
• Laundry
• House cleaning
• Basic cooking skills
• Fundamentals of home ownership / rental
• Getting Jobs, choosing careers

In other words, the fundamental requirements to living so all the stuff we really live for can happen. I love higher education but frankly we fail our kids by not providing the essential information everyone needs to maintain an existence in the modern world. If you want to drop all this on parents, keep in mind that most parents are already busy with all of the above along with working full time, maybe more. I think these things should be more than optional classes. There's so much we expect our kids just to "get" when we ignore it or only provide it in an afternoon assembly as if it was optional. It should be part of their standard education and we should expect them to not only get it but know these things very well.

[The Straight Story]

89. Add shop class/home repair/plumbing/etc as a bundled class

Basics of caring for a home for those who want to get into the trades and for those who just want to know how to take care of their home.

[Rabrrrrrr]

90. No science? Might as well destroy the US with our own nukes, then, because we'll be dead.

Scientific illiteracy in this country is already deplorable.

If we get any dumber about it, we'll be screwed.

However, I like your other suggestions!