I've long been liberal, but

[WeekendWarrior]

...some of the posts I read here are just as mindless and intolerant as those from our counterparts on the right. Life is about compromise, folks. If you don't like some things, fine, speak up and help to change them. But some of you are such hardliners that I fear you only alienate all but those who completely agree with you. You preach to the choir, but there's so much more out there than the choir -- and they don't all agree with you no matter how right you think you are. So why not look for balance, rather than insist it's your way or nothing.

Sigh.

[Oregone]

1. Im outraged at your outrage

[WeekendWarrior]

52. Never said I was outraged. Interesting analysis. nt

[Oregone]

2. dupe

:)

[sharp_stick]

13. How dare you dupe

have you no respect for the lack of bandwidth available in the world? Now I'm outraged!!! ;-)

[upi402]

54. seconded

still seconded

[guitar man]

3. your concern is noted nt

[mdmc]

4. There is "liberal" then there is pure

imho ya don't see much pure here (being that this is a Democratic Party website).

IMHO, I suggest people do what they feel passionate about. If you can't vote for a politician that supports the drug war, then don't vote for a politician that supports the drug war. If ya can't support a homophobe, then don't vote for a homophobe. If you just want to vote "D", then vote "D".

Please keep in mind most Americans could care less about voting. I enjoy when people have passion for political issues.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. aww.

[T Wolf]

6. How do you suggest solving problems lke the corporate control of government? By compromising

and allowing them to enslave only half of us?

I would assert that if, as you say, you have been a "liberal" for "a long time" - your brand of liberalism has been responsible for the lack of progress on many issues.

Gains are not made with the enemy by appealing to their better nature because they do not have one. The almost-total lack of success the current "Democratic" administration and Congress have shown over the last year have beyond dispute illustrated the folly of their kind of softline approach.

What issues should we abandon in an attempt to play nice? What values are expendable because the pukes do not agree?

[Fire1]

26. Corporate control of government is not going to change no

matter how many times you type it, yell it or will it to happen. Read about the WTO and the U.S. FSA agreement. Hopefully, you'll understand.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. No, but it is possible to vote for people who are opposed to it, who

believe in democracy rather than corporatocracy, and who will work to withdraw from the WTO - and the fact is, without the US there IS no WTO. We still remain the single greatest economic engine in the world, and the WTO dances to OUR tune - and if we decide we've had enough of it, it will go away.

Not that such a thing will be easy. In fact, short of outright revolution it might not be possible. But hey, I willing to invest in tumbrel manufacturing stocks.

[Fire1]

34. Yeah. Good luck with that. n/t

[WeekendWarrior]

57. Well, you see, I think rhetoric like "enslaved" is inflammatory

I'm no fan of corporations, and I suppose that's a characterization you COULD make to some degree if you WANT to be inflammatory, but at the same time, people can quit their jobs, find a new line of work and nobody will hunt them down and take them back to the plantation. Now, if you want to talk outsourcing slaves -- using people who really ARE slaves -- then that's a different story.

And, frankly, I think your post perfect illustrates what I'm talking about.

There's not point in making assumptions about my "brand" of liberalism. I've been around for a long time, I've worked for liberal causes, canvassed door to door, signed petitions, sent money to candidates and charities I believe in, so I'm not sure how my brand of liberalism is responsible for any lack of progress you perceive.

Gains are made by compromise. By making EVERYONE give up a little something for the greater good.

And I've never suggested that we should abandon any positions. But you're not going to get anywhere by being an asshole. Seriously. If you really want change in this country, then you have to find a way to make that change not seem frightening to those who don't understand it. Frame it in ways that don't make it sound like "angry liberal ranting" but rather decent human behavior. Which, to my mind, is ultimately what being liberal is all about. Treating EVERYONE with respect. Helping EVERYONE in need. And being willing to accept change.

There's no reason to be a hardass about it. Do you like the hardasses on the right? Would you sometimes like to kick their heads in?

Then imagine how the hardliners on OUR side look.

[Forkboy]

7. I admit to not being tolerant of things like homophobia and racism.

Both of which run rampant on the Right. Should we be more tolerant of that, in your opinion? What's the compromise we should make?

[bobbolink]

53. Add intolerant to poverty, and you have a good slate there.

It would be nice to be included.

[Forkboy]

65. I do agree.

And considering that I've been there, and still am (though not to your extent), I'm sorry for leaving that out.

I'm sorry. :hug:

[bobbolink]

66. Thanks! That means a lot to me!

Little by little, if I nag a lot, we will become more visible, and more remembered.

I appreciate it!

:hug:

[WeekendWarrior]

60. I don't think we should be tolerant of anything that

harms another human being. But I think we also need to understand where things like homophobia and racism come from -- fear. So rather than shout at people and call them racist pigs and idiots, why not try to engage them on a different level? Let them see that there's no reason for them to be afraid of gays or people from a different culture. That we're all HUMAN.

If we engage people as HUMANS rather than right, left, male, female, black, white, gay, straight, then maybe we can actually LEAD BY OUR EXAMPLE. Maybe it will actually catch on.

It's much better to EDUCATE than dictate. Screaming in their faces, using inflammatory rhetoric -- just as many of them do -- is not going to get us anywhere.

[dysfunctional press]

8. "Life is about compromise..."

nobody knows that better than liberals...but my entire adult life, it's ALWAYS been up to US to do all the 'compromising', and to be honest- i'm fucking sick of it.

[WeekendWarrior]

61. But you see...

...that liberals understand and are willing to do this, makes us the moral victors. A moral victory may seem hollow sometimes, but it's still a victory.

And, I'm sorry, but I've been around long enough to have seen DRASTIC change in this country over the decades. And that change has been slow but steady. It always will be.

[ljm2002]

9. If you disagree with someone's "hardliner" position...

...then why not tell them specifically what you disagree with? Why yet another meta-post griping about DUers in general? What exactly do you consider to be a "hardliner" position anyway?

This "Oh, sigh, too many radicals here" stuff is getting tiresome.

First, what is defined as "radical" or "hardliner" is so skewed anyway that it's laughable (or cryable, depending on the day). People are being told what is "centrist", and "centrist" is defined as "what the Republicans prefer". We see how well that has worked out for us so far...

Anyway, thanks for your permission to speak up. Conversely, feel free to whine about the hardliners here. I'm sure they/we will indeed speak up when they/we please.

[slipslidingaway]

10. + n/t

[blondeatlast]

20. Word, word, word. Excellent response. nt

[Bluebear]

23. >This "Oh, sigh, too many radicals here" stuff is getting tiresome

+1

[hfojvt]

38. any position can be hardliner

As I noted on the food stamps controversy. Some people thought it was okay for people to use food stamps to buy soda, and others didn't. In fact, according to the poll, DU was split about 50-50, or 45-55. Yet those in favor of food stamps for soda didn't just argue their case. The majority who posted about it argued their case by personally attacking all the control-freaks who disagreed with them. Many here seem to feel that there cannot possibly be decent, intelligent and informed people who disagree with them, on any issue. It's not necessarily a function of how left a position is that makes it hardliner, it's the refusal to acknowledge either any uncertainty or any validity to any other position or point of view.

[WeekendWarrior]

62. Because it's a general response to a general feeling

I get whenever I come here lately. We all know who the hardliners are -- those who scream whenever the world doesn't go their way and are unwilling to budge an inch on ANY issue. Obama doesn't do something exactly the way they want him to and they're ready to throw him out. Now. I don't think specific instances need to be pointed to. You know who you are.

I understand your passion. I understand your frustration. But I'm here to tell you from experience that, as the old saying goes, "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. I'm not a liberal.

The fascists will shoot you.
The conservatives will applaud the fascists.
The moderates will watch the executions on TV.
The liberals will cry over your grave and feel guilty for turning you in to the fascists.

SDS saying.

[EFerrari]

17. LOL. I never heard that one.

:)

[EC]

24. Wouldn't the liberals be the ones in the graves?

Since they first people they go after are teachers, artists, librarians, lawyers - liberals, I think we'd be the ones in the mass graves...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. The "liberals" are the ones who justify compromise - aka selling out.

[RedCappedBandit]

41. No.

[TransitJohn]

12. "Life is about compromise, folks"

If you mean that the poor and disadvantaged must always give up what meager wealth they have to further enrich the elites, then yeah, life is about compromise.

[Echo In Light]

14. Remaining tolerant of the intolerant in society is counterproductive

[Green_Lantern]

15. I don't mind people here being very liberal..

I just have a problem with the ones attacking other progressives here for not being as liberal.

[ChicagoSuz219]

39. Yeah... those 'liberaler-than-thou' folks... LOL

I hear ya.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

18. For those pesky 'uncompromisers' the DU ignore feature is quite useful.

[Bluebear]

19. Some ideals don't call for "balance" and compromise, sorry.

[walldude]

21. You claim that people should "look for balance"

The only way to find it is to push as hard on this side as they are pushing on theirs.

Your post reminds me of the Republican idea of Bi-Partisanship, "we'll be bi-partisan as long as you throw all your ideas out the window and implement all of ours". There is no balance when it comes to fucking over the American people. People here are tired of watching the news and seeing Republicans screaming that the Census bureau wasted 3 million dollars, but fail to mention that the Pentagon is missing 2 TRILLION dollars. We'd love some balance.

[blondeatlast]

22. You are posting on an admittedly biased political board and you don't want us to discuss?

There's a word for that type of thinking. Well, actually, there's a bunch of words for it--but none worth risking my DU membership.

[Uncle Joe]

25. Sometimes compromise is a good thing but there are also times, when it's literally

cutting the baby in half.

Today I believe that's the point we've reached on many issues and this is in large part because of the extreme rightward shift of both major political parties.

They're not centered any more, they're both to the right, the Republicans just happen to be more to the right and if you keeping compromising between center right and extreme right, that dynamic will either take you off a cliff, or keep you running in circles.

If you don't believe me, drive your car on a mountain road and keep turning slightly right or extreme right, no left turns allowed.

[marmar]

27. When you start a post with 'I've long been liberal'......

...... It usually means the opposite.

[Romulox]

28. Right. Because the problem with this board is that there are **TOO MANY** lefties.

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

29. Strikes me as the right-wing bullshit that Obama is pushing "socialism" on the US

when that could not be further from the truth.

[Romulox]

31. Agreed. Same as "there are too many lefties on DU!"

Poor "centrists" don't feel free to discuss compromising our rights without having to answer to those lousy lefties! I'm all tore up about it.

[Electric Monk]

33. ibtl

[hfojvt]

35. there is a very large strain of

"anybody who does not completely agree with me on everything can pi$$ off". Sad but true. Such declarations about how ignorant and prejucticed and intolerant and stupid all those people who disagree with us are, regularly make the front page.

You may notice as well that your complaint about our perfectly enlightened selves was not well received.

Welcome to DU. In spite of my complaints, there are many decent and passionate and intelligent people here.

[blondeatlast]

36. Post. Run. Not my idea of entertainment, but to each his own. nt

[spanone]

37. it's democratic underground, what did you expect?

so because you came here, you're not a liberal anymore...?

[Iris]

40. um....the right is not tolerant

why should we be tolerant of their intolerance?

[RedCappedBandit]

42. Right, it's the left who needs to learn to comrpomise.

What a fuckin' joke.

[Political Heretic]

43. Because one way is about social and economic justice. The other way is not.

You either stand with the workers or your stand with the rulers.

Pick a side.

[RedCappedBandit]

44. Right, it's the left who needs to learn to compromise.

What a fuckin' joke.

[timeforpeace]

45. The tolerance of the left lost it's cachet, along with never existing in the first place.

[marmar]

46. Paging John Lennon, your image has been corrupted.

nt

[Bluebear]

49. you said it

[blondeatlast]

50. It's been bugging me for well over a year. nt

[Bluebear]

47. Little hit and run action there, eh?

[blondeatlast]

48. Aunt Bea fixed up a mess o' chicken biscuits and gravy, but OP is

not to be found...

[ddeclue]

51. IBTT. Enjoy your brief stay...

:rofl:

[Quantess]

55. Okay. I'll try.

[Atticus]

56. recced your post, but one didn't help. Been where you're at.

Whiskey helps temporarily.

[Bluebear]

59. Well, that makes two of you!

[JackDragna]

58. Right. Life is about compromise..

..with a political party that has sold me and others like me down the river. That plays nice with another political party that has dismantled the middle class, calls me a traitor and occasionally advocates that I be shot. My so-called party, full of people with whom I am supposed to "compromise," drags its feet, terrified of the backlash of passing anything that smacks of progressive legislation.

The United States is at a crossroads. Individuals are making a bald-faced grab at wealth and power and will disenfranchise, demonize and otherwise run over anyone they can to get their way. I will "compromise" with the people with whom I disagree politically when I become convinced they are not on the side of oligarchs and the religiously insane.

[Maru Kitteh]

63. It's pretty much tantamount to sacrilege here. But I agree with you.

There are many people here who are OUTRAGED that nobody on the right can open their minds, that they are so dumb that they sit there and lap up Rush and Hannity who tell them exactly what they want to hear, that they really want to destroy this country, and that they are SO WRONG!

Then those same people say they could *never* befriend any republican, even a family member, because life is too short and they will only watch MSNBC because the big 3 and CNN are "corpratist." They then turn on Olberman who tells them exactly what they want to hear, after which they come on DU and titter like a bunch of sparrows about how open-minded and well-informed they are.

My way or the highway = You're either with us or you're with the terrorists = stupid and non-productive

[depakid]

64. Yep pander to the right- enable and legitimize a failed ideology -and enact its policies

all in the spirit of "tolerance" and "compromise."

That's the ticket!

Both to astonishingly effective public policy and two decades worth of electoral victories!