Plan afoot in Utah to "share" Dr. King's holiday with John Browning, gun manufacturer

[Bluebear]

A plan is circulating under the radar in the Utah State Senate to share the holiday honoring civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr., shot to death in 1968, with one of the country's most famous gun makers.

The plan is to rename the holiday, which falls on the third Monday of January, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr./John M. Browning Day, adding the gun manufacturer whose birthday also falls in January.

The Utah Legislature has a contentious history with the holiday honoring King. After President Ronald Reagan signed the legislation creating the federal holiday, bitter debates resulted in a compromise, calling the holiday "Human Rights Day."

Utah changed the name to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day in 2000, becoming the last state to do so.

http://www.sltrib.com/utahpolitics/ci_14413202

[vadawg]

1. i guess they can do that, cant they.. i got no idea if its even allowed

i presume so as we celebrate jackson lee day here in VA, i guess if thats what the voters want the pols to spend their time doing then its their state...

[Bluebear]

4. And why do you think they want to do that?

[vadawg]

7. for whatever reason no matter how bad, if they want to do it how are you going to stop it

better just to think they are adiots or whatever.... mayby the browning guy had a profound effect on utah i got no idea...

[Bluebear]

11. Dr. King used non-violence to promote civil rights & they know it. This is calculated.

Browning had no "profound" effect other than holding patents to gun mechanisms.

[slackmaster]

13. As an amateur machinist and gunsmith, I have walked in his footsteps a few times

It's amazing what the man could do with a simple milling machine, some drill bits, key-seat cutters, files, an anvil, and a ball-peen hammer.

[EFerrari]

18. It's celebrating the shooter in racist code. n/t

[Bluebear]

19. Of course it is. Yet, here people come saying this is false "outrage"

Cripes, I play piano, does that mean Cristofori should get a holiday because he invented the piano? People.

[EFerrari]

34. I vote we do an airlift, get Kitty Herder and helderheid outta there.

The founders of Utah wanted to be their own private theocracy in the first place. Let them do it.

[Bluebear]

40. Gas up the Blazer.

We'll do an overnight search and rescue for helder and kitty then hightail it out of there.

[vadawg]

20. i guess that depends if the shooter used a browning designed gun or not

if so then id say yeah pretty much, but if not it might just be they are assholes or the dude browning has significent meaning, :shrug:

[slackmaster]

23. JMB designed many firearms that were historically significant in the settlement of the American West

Like the lever-action Winchesters.

[vadawg]

24. makes more sense then, i guess the winchester was pretty important in winning the west

is this a big todo in utah i wonder, i guess mlk will still bethe federal holiday and browning will tag on, kinda like in other states i suppose..

[slackmaster]

28. His firearms were also used to help stop the Nazis in World War II

The 1919 and M2 machine guns, and the 1919 pistol were standard issue weapons for the US military for many decades, and are still in use.

[deaniac21]

52. that would be the 1911 .45acp. He also designed the cartridge.

[EFerrari]

29. I think you give people to much credit. These people are crude.

I'm surprised they didn't couple the JFK memorial with Library Warehouse Appreciation Day.

[slackmaster]

31. Have you ever been to the Sixth Floor Museum at the old Texas Schoolbook Depository?

I suppose some people get outraged about the choice of that location, which would actually make more sense than being upset that MLK shares a birthday with JMB.

[Bluebear]

33. OFFS it's not that he shares a birthday, why does he need a state holiday for inventing a gun?

[slackmaster]

39. As I understand it, they're not creating a new state holiday

They're just adding recognition of JMB's birth to an existing federal and state holiday.

He didn't just invent "a gun". He designed dozens of rifles, shotguns, and machine guns in forms that work reliably and are not difficult to manufacture.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

49. Oh wow.

So arguably the greatest private citizen in the history of the United States who was responsible for spearheading a beautifully peaceful movement to gain equal rights for all US Citizens regardless of race deserves to be put on the same level as some guy who invented an efficient, easy to use gun.

Whooo-kay.

[slackmaster]

50. JMB's designs have been used for a very long span of history

From the colonization of what is now the Western USA, through the World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, and continuing today as we cogitate and quibble over this issue. (And almost exclusively by the "good guys".)

His impact on history of our nation and of the world is undeniable. As a techie, an engineer, and a historian I admire him greatly as I do MLK.

[deaniac21]

55. The actions he developed are still the basis for virtually every

automatic and semi-automatic made.
Selected patents
U.S. Patent 220,271 Winchester 1885 single-shot, Browning’s first patent
U.S. Patent 306,577 Winchester 1886 and Model 71 lever action rifles
U.S. Patent 336,287 Winchester Model 1887/1901 lever action shotgun
U.S. Patent 385,238 Winchester 1890 pump action rifle
U.S. Patent 441,390 Winchester 1893 and 1897 pump action shotguns
U.S. Patent 465,339 Winchester 1892 lever action rifle
U.S. Patent 524,702 Winchester 1894 lever action rifle
U.S. Patent 544,657 Colt-Browning Model 1895 machine gun
U.S. Patent 549,345 Winchester 1895 lever action rifle
U.S. Patent 580,924 Colt 1900 automatic pistol
U.S. Patent 632,094 Winchester 1900 bolt action single shot .22 rifle
U.S. Patent 659,507 FN/Browning Auto-5 shotgun, also Remington Model 11
U.S. Patent 659,786 Remington Model 8 semi-automatic rifle
U.S. Patent 678,937 M1917 Browning machine gun
U.S. Patent 747,585 Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless automatic pistol
U.S. Patent 781,765 Stevens 520 pump action shotgun
U.S. Patent 808,003 Colt Model 1905 in .45 ACP (predecessor to the M1911)
U.S. Patent 947,478 FN Model 1906 and Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket in .25 ACP
U.S. Patent 984,519 Colt 1911
U.S. Patent 1,065,341 Browning 22 Semi-Auto rifle and Remington model 24
U.S. Patent 1,143,170 Remington Model 17 and Ithaca 37 pump action shotguns
U.S. Patent 1,276,716 Colt Woodsman
U.S. Patent 1,293,022 Browning Automatic Rifle Model of 1918
U.S. Patent 1,424,553 FN "Trombone" pump action .22 caliber repeater (Rare in USA)
U.S. Patent 1,525,065 37 mm automatic cannons, M1 and M4
U.S. Patent 1,578,638 Browning Superposed over/under shotgun
U.S. Patent 1,618,510 FN and Browning Hi-Power pistol
U.S. Patent 1,628,226 M2 Browning machine gun in .50 caliber

[slackmaster]

56. If you know much about history, there are a lot of connections in that list

My collection is deeply deficient in Browning designs I'm going to have to work on it.

[deaniac21]

68. He was a genius.

[alfredo]

78. It was made by Remington.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

80. Browning's work impacted a great number of people profoundly

His weapon designs and concepts rank with Mauser and Kalashnikov. The effect of their use upon an individual is indeed profound.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

2. Good god, I am sick to fucking death --

of these idiots. :puke:

[EFerrari]

3. There are no depths these @ssholes won't sink to, apparently.

This country needs an exorcism or a smudging or something. :puke:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

6. Exorcism ---

definitely.

[fascisthunter]

5. sick and stupid

[defendandprotect]

8. The left is about progress, the right is about reversal . .. what's new?

[Winterblues]

9. Isn't it a Federal Holiday?

They can establish a State Holiday as well if they like but Federal workers will celebrate Martin Luther King Day..

[EFerrari]

10. If we were organized, we could arrange a swap with Utah.

A housing and job swap. They can have all the tea baggers and we'd get decent people with something to contribute to the country. They could make being white, Mormon and straight mandatory and we'd be rid of a whole lot of fear and hate. I don't see a down side.

[BreweryYardRat]

81. Sounds goddamn good to me.

Utah's kind of a boring state anyway. A lot of landlocked desert, mountains, and wasteland, and the only interesting geographical feature is the Great Salt Lake.

[slackmaster]

12. I weep for the outrage that will be wasted on this tempest in a teapot

Sharing is good. JMB was a brilliant designer and engineer. I'd be honored to share a birthday with him.

I have the same birthday as Norman Rockwell and Gertrude Stein, a few bad people, and a bunch of people I've never heard of. There's nothing I can or would do about it. It's just what happened.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. Wow. You dance to the ultrasound melody quite well.

Me, I prefer rock and roll.

[Bluebear]

15. You? Weep? Hardly, but we get your drift.

[elehhhhna]

16. Ohj for fuks sake & Jesus could share Xmas with the guy who invented

the cross.

Irony disability much?

Please.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

48. And you wonder why many liberals view --

you "gun enthusiats" as nuts. It is because of arguments just like this -- blantently bigoted CRAP because of your love for your weapons. Frankly you make me sick.

[slackmaster]

51. Evidently I have a different perspective on history than you do

You ought to study it a little more deeply, I think. There are a lot of more important things to get "sick" over, like what's going on in Haiti right now.

[proteus_lives]

90. What those of us who are liberal gun enthusiasts?

Liberals who pick and choose what rights to defend make me sick.

[Union Yes]

17. This bill is blatant racism. MLK was assassinated by a gun. knr for the heads-up

F'n sad that this shit still exists in America.

[slackmaster]

21. No, MLK was assassinated by a very sick man named James Earl Ray

Who used a hunting rifle that was NOT designed by JMB.

[Kitty Herder]

25. Still.

Celebrating the two men on the same day creates an association in the mind between King and rifles. It's as if they're wanting to celebrate MLK's death and remind people what happens to uppity black people. It's offensive as hell.

[theHandpuppet]

46. Well, look at Alabama

With it's state holiday of MLK/Robert E. Lee day. That one still boggles the mind.

[G_j]

26. MLK died from gunshot

celebrating a manufacturer of guns on MLK day sends a very blatant message.
They could find another day.
Too bad your love of guns seems to blind you to that.

[slackmaster]

30. Firearms are used for both good and bad purposes

I think that JMB's have done far more good than harm.

[Bluebear]

32. Still does not warrant a state holiday. Should the inventor of the Conestoga wagon be given a day?

The inventor of the oboe?

Frozen food?

The space heater?

[vadawg]

36. i guess it depends how much of a difference he made to the state

or if hes a son of the state :shrug: i honestly have no idea how important he is to the people of Utah.

[Bluebear]

38. Earl Silas Tupper is from New Hampshire, I assure you we have no state holiday for Tupperware.

[slackmaster]

42. It wouldn't bother me a bit if you did

I have a Tupperware hair comb that I bought in the '70s. I've broken two teeth off it, but it still works great and I use it every day.

[vadawg]

43. depends how important he is to the state, VA has holidays to the sons of VA who fought for the south

which outside of VA may not seem important but to virginians it is, mayby if the tupperware guy was that important they would make a holiday for him as well... i guess what im saying is that it takes all sorts of stuff and people being important to others....

[Mopar151]

62. Yes, but we had a couple mossback RW's in our Senate

Who fought MLK Day tooth and nail. I thought NH was the last state to accept it, I did'nt know about Utah. Although the native son of NH the anti-King crowd tried to substitute was one of the original Freedom Riders, who was murdered for the cause.
NH does'nt much go for Colombus Day (there's a Lief Ericson parade somewhere 'round here then), maybe we should celebrate Inventor's Day on that date.

[Kitty Herder]

47. His importance probably differs from person to person.

I, for one, don't care much about Browning. But he was a native son of Utah. Hunters around here seem to be really proud of that fact.

I don't have a problem with them creating a state holiday for him. But I have a huge problem with Browning sharing a holiday with Martin Luther King, Jr. I don't care if they have the same birthday. It sends a very bad message. Utah was slow in recognizing King's birthday, anyway, and many still resent that we ever did recognize it. I suspect this has far more to do with that resentment than it does with John Browning.

[deaniac21]

57. John Moses Browning

(January 21<1> or January 23,<2> 1855 – November 26, 1926), born in Ogden, Utah, was an American firearms designer who developed many varieties of firearms, cartridges, and gun mechanisms, many of which are still in use around the world. He is the most important figure in the development of modern automatic and semi-automatic firearms and is credited with 128 gun patents—his first was granted October 7, 1879. He had made his first very own firearm at the age of thirteen in his father's gun shop.<1>

Browning belonged to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and served a two-year mission in Georgia beginning on March 28, 1887. His father Jonathan Browning, who was among the thousands of Mormon pioneers in the mass exodus from Nauvoo, Illinois to Utah, had established a gunsmith shop in Ogden in 1852. John Moses worked in his father's shop and later developed his first rifle, a single-shot falling-block design, in that capacity. He founded his own manufacturing operation and began to produce this firearm.

[slackmaster]

37. I don't live in Utah, and I don't really care what holidays Utah wants to declare

It doesn't have any REAL effect on anyone who doesn't live there, and probably not much on people who do. Utah state employees already get the day off with pay. Utah students already get MLK day off from school. What would be the harm in teaching them a little more history, that surrounding the life of one of Utah's favorite sons?

My state declared Abraham Lincoln's birthday to no longer be a state holiday this year. Should I be upset?

http://www.dpa.ca.gov/news/news/2010/20100129-01.htm

(I am not an employee of the state of California.)

[G_j]

35. you still miss the point

there are 365 days in a year.

[vadawg]

41. i think they pick a federal holiday so that people are off work anyway

makes it easier to declare a holiday i guess, kinda like jackson lee day etc etc.

[KingFlorez]

45. There is definitely an underlying message here

Lots of states have special holidays, but they usually don't co-op them with federal ones. What is the point? It makes no sense.

[Mopar151]

53. And I've heard racists call MLK day "James Earl Ray Day" n/t

[slackmaster]

60. That's about as "apples-to-oranges" as you can get

JMB was no racist, and he was not a criminal.

[proteus_lives]

88. Funny how people blame inanimate objects.

It must be easier that way.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

44. You are trying to argue with a denizen of --

the DU Gungeon. Don't waste you breath.

[proteus_lives]

91. And now stereotyping.

Someone needs to check your liberal card.

[deaniac21]

58. MLK was killed by a racist man.

[Kitty Herder]

22. There are times I'm horribly ashamed to be from Utah.

Fucking assholes. I can't believe this.

[Sheepshank]

27. They're such Texan wannabe's

talking about creating gun laws that fly in the face of federal laws....seriously, they are compensating for something very minature. Or preparing for some more Prop 8 backlash.

[Blue_Tires]

54. Virginia infamously paired it with Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson

When I was in grade school, the calendar always read "Lee-Jackson-King Day"

[deaniac21]

61. Robert E. Lee was admired in both the north and the south.

[joeybee12]

64. Not by this Northerner...

...over-rated racist hack that lee was

[slackmaster]

65. I'm from California. We've got Nixon.

:argh:

[vadawg]

66. rofl over rated, okay not inthe shenandoah hes not, the guy is still venerated

for the son of virginia that he was, whether you agree with the war or not he was first a virginian...

[deaniac21]

69. He was against slavery and Lincoln asked him to lead the Union

army. He couldn't fight against his beloved Virginia.

[vadawg]

70. yup a virginian first and foremost, thats why the guys still adored in VA

especially in the valley...

[joeybee12]

71. Yup, stand up for Virginia as long as they wanna keep slaves...

...fucking ridicuolous.

[depakid]

98. Bullshit- Lee owned and used slave labor at Arlington

[Blue_Tires]

74. especially admired by a certain demographic wishing

for a return to a more "simple" time

[deaniac21]

83. You are showing a total lack of knowledge of the period's history.

You are entertaining, however!

[Blue_Tires]

84. so you're saying that racists have never used confederate icons and imagery??

and that there was no underlying message from the state legislature tacking on MLK's day with two old CSA idols??

Please explain it to this Virginian...

[Bluebear]

85. :crickets:

[deaniac21]

87. I don't really care what you think. Your mind is totally closed. I

am talking about the 1860's and you are talking about now. I'm going to spend the rest of the day with grown ups.

[Blue_Tires]

93. that's what i thought...

[theothersnippywshrub]

59. How very, very, very republican.

MLK, Jr. quote:

"I . . . urge every Negro and white person of goodwill to vote against . . . and to withdraw support from any Republican candidate. . . ."

(Heavily edited to alter context for emphasis and perhaps a little, but only a little, distortion).

[slackmaster]

63. Let's not forget that MLK was himself a registered Republican when he said that

:hide:

I guess those who forget history may very well be doomed to repeat it.

[G_j]

67. Was Dr Martin Luther King a registered Republican?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_Dr_Martin_Luther_King_a_registered_Republican

Was Dr Martin Luther King a registered Republican?
In: Martin Luther King Jr

Yes, Dr. King was a republican according to his neice Dr. Alveda C. King who stated,

"My grandfather, Dr. Martin Luther King, Sr., or "Daddy King", was a Republican
and father of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. who was a Republican."

http://www.trustedpartner.com/docs/library/000143/Alveda%20King%20article.pdf.



But, not according to his son.

In a statement released through the King Center published in an AP article in July 2008 at http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/printedition/2008/07/05/kingrepublicans.html, Martin Luther King III said, "It is disingenuous to imply that my father was a Republican. He never endorsed any presidential candidate, and there is certainly no evidence that he ever even voted for a Republican. It is even more outrageous to suggest that he would support the Republican Party of today, which has spent so much time and effort trying to suppress African-American votes in Florida and many other states."

And this Wash Post article in 2006 says King actually voted for LBJ in 1964. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/18/AR2006101801754.html

In fact, in "The Autobiography of Martin Luther King, Jr.," which was published after King's death from his written material and records, King called the 1964 Republican national convention that nominated Goldwater a "frenzied wedding ... of the KKK and the radical right."

Although that information is indeed silly since it was democrats who made up the majority of the KKK and it was the democrats who were in fact the party of pro-slavery.

[joeybee12]

75. is this niece who said he would have been against gay rights, which his

wife, Coretta Scott King, said that indeed MLK would have been for them?????

[theothersnippywshrub]

76. Nearly all the democrats who made up the majority of the Klan switched parties

and became republicans. Those who did not, acknowledged their sins and repented. It's a Christian thing. All of the democrats who were pro-slavery are dead. As are all of their children. And as are all of the blacks who once gave the republican party 99% of the black vote. Blacks liked Lincoln. Did blacks like Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan and their Republican Southern Strategy? Not so much.

[theothersnippywshrub]

73. He may have been a registered republican. Or maybe not.

I have never seen any persuasive evidence concerning his voter registration. He strategically remained uncommitted politically until Goldwater made his "duck hunting" statement and opposition to the Civil Rights Acts part of republican orthodoxy. King obviously was raised in a republican household since his father was a registered republican until 1960 and since 99% of the black vote went to republicans prior to the depression and 30 to 40% of the black vote went republican until the 1964 election. He definitely recognized the gestation of the coming Republican Southern Strategy and made the statement I quoted as a result of that. He was right.

[joeybee12]

72. What's worse...what Utah wants to do, or the fools here applauding Utah

Absolutely fucking ridiculous.

[Bluebear]

77. Thank you.

[marmar]

86. Sadly, it's the usual suspects.....

nt

[Edweird]

79. I respect Browning's work. I don't think it should be MLK day, though. He can have his own day.

While the timing may (or may not) be innocent, it obviously looks improper. I'm sure something could be worked out.

[BreweryYardRat]

82. That is APPALLING.

Hell, I'm not even black, and I can STILL see how insulting that is.

Yeah, Browning made some good guns. Big fucking deal.

MLK was America's most influential civil rights leader, who made hugely positive changes to the country and its attitude. That's a hell of a lot more important than a measly gun manufacturer.

[proteus_lives]

89. John Browning is certainly worthy of his own day.

But I choose a different one then Dr. King's.

[TwilightGardener]

92. Elevating a GUN MANUFACTURER to MLK's status?

Do we have Eli Whitney Day? John Deere Day? Edison Day? Are they fucking SERIOUS??

[slackmaster]

97. I would support days commemorating Eli Whitney and Thomas Edison, and George Washington Carver

Their contributions to history are all on a par with those of John Moses Browning.

Comparing science and technology to social justice is apples-to-oranges.

[Initech]

94. That's like putting Budweiser in charge of national sobriety day.

Excuse me but wasn't one of our countries' greatest civil rights leaders killed by,.......... a gun???

[Raineyb]

95. WTF?

Talk about a blatant slap in the face! Disgusting!

I have no words.

[niyad]

96. so they want to honour a man of peace and non-violence, and a man who invented things that kill

(however the gun enthusiasts dress this up, guns are killing machines--that is their sole function, regardless of the use to which they are put. KILLING MACHINES)