I hope world history books have changed since I was in high school..

[AsahinaKimi]

One of my primary beefs when I was in High School, was that our World History Books were totally screwed up. (They were Published in Texas.) The text went though the different civilizations; Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc.. But NO WHERE, nothing was ever mentioned about Asia until "Macro Polo discovered it". So...basically , those people in China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, etc, did not exist..Asia was a blank slate!

I have always wanted to know about Asia during the rise of those civilizations. Were Asians living in caves? Wandering nomadic tribes? I mean, why was this never ever taught? I had to go explore on my own, to find these answers.. And recently, even learned that the people of Japan are still trying to find out where their ancestors came from.

There are also the stories of the "Ainu" in Japan, who were there long before the Japanese came to that pacific island Nation.


I loved also dicovering the recent documentary about the Celtic red haired tweed clothed mummies found in Asia, who were visiting Asia and trading with Asians, far, far before Marco Polo had ever thought about packing his bags. You would think something like that would change those History books?

So basically Columbus discovered the Americas and Marco Polo discovered that Asia was there... I mean seriously, wth??

[MadMaddie]

1. School Books are going to be worse than when you and I had to

use them.

In Texas they are trying to rewrite history with a conservative slant, it's really bad.

[virgogal]

2. But think how lucky you are that you live in a time that you can learn about

all the stuff that you missed about Asia(and don't forget Africa) in high school.

Some earlier generations were not as fortunate.

[JI7]

3. didn't ancestors of Japanese people come through Korea ?

[AsahinaKimi]

8. I just saw a documentary about

using DNA to trace where the Japanese people came from. There was the thought they were a mixture between Korean, Chinese, and Mongolians, however the languge itself is very different from Korean and Chinese.

With the "Ainu" people, it was interesting because their DNA strands showed they were related to not only the Mongolians, but also a small group of people in South America, quite possibly the ancestors of the Mayans. If so this would be extraordinary because that would mean they must have come to the Japan islands long ago by boat.

Also there was one of the first groups to come to Japan after the Ainu were the JOMON people, I am not sure where they are from.. JOMON refers to "Straw Rope people" and the era which lasted from 10,000 bc to 300 bc. They were fisherman, and hunter gatherers.

Later there was a mass migration of Koreans who came and brought bronze and Iron plus the cultivation of Rice during Japan's Yayoi period (300bc to 300 ad).

[XemaSab]

9. I thought it was the other way around...

A group of the intrepid Ainu got in a boat, left Japan, and went a long, long, long ways from home. :D

[AsahinaKimi]

10. I am not sure but

According to this documentary, those AINU who had their blood drawn had traces of DNA simular to those tested in a small village in South America. A film crew also went to this village and took blood samples there.. and it was a pretty close match.

The documentary is on Youtube.. I don't have the link any further but at the time I was searching about the Ainu and probably used that as a search word.

[Igel]

47. On the other hand, there's a different explanation.

Which considers that the population of NE Asia was in flux and varied over time. So the people that travelled to the New World first were probably displaced or assimilated by waves of new comers. The initial immigrant population might well have spread southwards, and the more northern populations also overlayered by later immigrants.

Meaning that you could find relic areas of the previous population in relative backwaters: the Ainu and some tribes in the Cono Sur.

Similarly, you find relic populations in South Africa that haven't been "overwritten", so to speak, by later, Bantu-speaking immigrants and language isolates in the mountains in the N and NW part of South Asia.

[Yurovsky]

12. Either way, that's one LONG trip...

especially with the limited technology of the day. Amazing.

[Beartracks]

4. "World History" here oftentimes is taught as...

... the history of Western Civilization. From that viewpoint, yes, Asia and the Americas did not exist in any practical sense until some Westerner "discovered" them, bringing them into significant "contact" with the Western world. Probably has nothing to do with where in America the books were published. But school boards should really look at broadening their curriculum, as well as the required texts.

This kind of narrow-mindedness, or perhaps self-indulgence, is, I think, related to the concept of history "being written by the victors" -- or people who see themselves as superior, at any rate, whether consciously or not.

On a related note, I recall seeing a side-by-side comparison of world maps, one being printed in America and the other being printed in Japan. The American map was the familiar image of North/South America on the left, Europe/Africa/Asia on the right, with the Atlantic in the middle; the Japanese map featured Europe/Africa/Asia on the left, North/South America on the right, with the Pacific in between -- a layout that places Japan smack in the middle of the map. :) It's a matter of perspective. I presume World History as taught in Japan is vastly different from the Euro-centric model. But I really don't know.

[Beartracks]

36. Oh - I guess Texas does kinda play a large role.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x436382

----------------------------

[ellenfl]

5. yeah, now it only goes back 6,000 years. eom

[NoPasaran]

6. Who's this Marco Polo guy?

I was in high school when Richard Nixon discovered China.

[Art_from_Ark]

45. Now that's funny

:toast:

[Obamanaut]

7. World and American history books are longer now that they were

when I was in high school. American History only had three chapters, with W.H. a bit thicker.

It's been awhile.

[XemaSab]

11. I recall my world history teacher

explicitly stating that we were going to learn European history and not much else.

I'm sure that Middle Eastern and Indian history books are also not so Euro-centric. :D

[AsahinaKimi]

13. I often wondered myself why it was called

"World History" as a basic when it was, as you said pretty Euro-centric.

[XemaSab]

17. If I was dictator

high school would spend at least a semester on Latin America, a semester on Africa, a semester on the Middle East, and a year on Asia, as well as a semester on California history (which isn't taught past the 4th grade).

Latin American history in particular seems as relevant to American history as European history does. :shrug:

[givemebackmycountry]

14. Don't you know anything?

Newt Gingrich discovered Asia and Rush Limbaugh discovered 'merica.

Jeez, EVERYONE knows that.


Laugh, it's going to be that bad when Texas gets done with the NEW HISTORY books.

[AsahinaKimi]

15. This was one of my favorite documentaries on Japan

The Way of the Samurai
The Will of the Shogun
The Return of the Barbarians


http://www.youtube.com/show?p=BcRMz-jlw8Y


The Culture of the AINU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrGthqwqZz0

I will attempt to find the video about the DNA..but I don't recall the name of it. It was in Japanese with English subtitles.

[csziggy]

16. Yeah, when I was in World History, same thing

So I asked the teacher what was happening in China at some point, probably around 1066. He told me in all seriousness "the Chinese lived in caves until Marco Polo brought them civilization." :wtf: I knew better, but it was not worth arguing with the man. The class was an easy A since he taught text book only and took his test questions straight out of the questions in the book at the end of each chapter.

My parents had the ten volume Will & Ariel Durant "The Story of Civilization" so I read that for a better education.

[AsahinaKimi]

18. Waaa ??

"the Chinese lived in caves until Marco Polo brought them civilization."

Man thats messed up! I mean, the Chinese were responsible for paper, gun powder, they built the Great wall of China, there are even underground Pyramids in China, not to mention the Forbidden city, ..by the time Marco Polo got there, China had an amazing civilization and people!

The one thing that stood out in the documentary mentioned above was how the Portuguese Catholic monks were so amazed by the Culture of Japan. While the Western visitors were used to eating with a knife and their hands, the Japanese ate with Chopsticks. They had baths nearly everyday.. while the Western visitors went for months without bathing!! Japan had an amazing culture itself..its worth watching the above documentaries!

[csziggy]

40. I know - I was amazed at the absolute ignorance

But it was so totally without malice, just pure, unadulterated lack of awareness, I did not bother to argue with the man. I mean, I was a kid that just wanted to get my high school diploma and get the heck out of that little town - it was not my job to educate the teachers. I think he had about three more years to retirement and he was a nice guy even if he was unbelievably ignorant in his own subject area.

[TankLV]

41. The thing that amazed me is that the Chinese had "modern" furniture when the rest of the world was

sitting on stone "benches".

Some of the photos of couple thousand year old furniture from the Imperial Palace are quite amazing - beds, sofas, dressers - while the Romans and Egyptians were squatting on stone - quite eye-opening, really.

Of course, the Royal Court was limited to a very select few priviledged people, compared to the population as a whole...

[Confusious]

51. Don't dis the stone

Marble and granite are tough cookies to crack without making a mess of it.

[anonymous171]

19. I was taught World History first. American History was an elective for seniors.

I didn't like it though. I had a whole semester on Japanese history though. Although the only thing that I really remember was that Admiral Perry was a total badass.

[AsahinaKimi]

24. He was!!

It was stated that the Shogun had died of illness when He arrived. In the past many of the Shogun before him were previously warlords, however by the time Perry arrived, that last Shogun had never learned the ways of the Samurai. Never drew a sword or even practiced using a boken. Two hunderd years had gone by since the last Shogun had thrown out the last of the Western visitors.

The Japanese doctors had just discovered the Dutch Anatomy books and wanted to learn more about this subject to help heal the sick. When Perry showed up, the Shogun died out of fear of what to do. Luckily, the next one was open to Western trading.

[era veteran]

20. Terrible disservice to native populations of North & South America

Populations a lot larger than we were taught. Genocide by European diseases killed a lot more people than we were taught. This probably to ease our guilt of stealing their land. These peoples terra formed both Americas. A culture that worked until we killed it. Now that the buffalos gone

[Confusious]

21. It's called "western civilization" for a reason

And it's given because we live in the west. High School is basic knowledge about how we got here.

If you want to know more about Asia, take an "Asian civilizations" class in college.

We already have a sad state of understanding of western history in the United States. Lets not make it worse by adding every other history on top of that.

[AsahinaKimi]

23. Lets not make it worse????

"Lets not make it worse by adding every other history on top of that."

Wow! First of all it was called World History. The books were called World History. There are American history classes. I took that as well.

But your above statement is amazing!! Lets not make it worse??

Since when is EDUCATION a bad thing? I thought the whole idea of school was to bring better UNDERSTANDING of the world? Its because of crap like this, we have less EDUCATED people in the United States now. Its because of this less education you have more TEA BAGGERS and Birthers today.

Lets not make it worse?? NO MY FRIEND...Improved Education is where its at, if we want a SMARTER tomorrow. If we want people to make sound decisions about where this country will go, you have to know about the past to avoid making the same damn mistakes of the future.

[Confusious]

27. If they can't get western civilization down

How are they suppose to get the history of Asia, the history of South America, the history of India, the History of Africa down to?

I'm all for education. But giving people more when we can't seem to get the basics right seems like an idiot move to me.

[AsahinaKimi]

28. Getting it down ..interesting

Most American and World history classes I took covered the basics. Those other histories could be covered in a basic way too..

I always looked at it like this. Teaching this stuff was like going to all you can eat restaurant. There is no way you can try and eat every food. But you can sample the basic things.. and later if there is time for it, and if you are up for it, you can go back to the stuff that peaked your interest and get more.

If schools taught the basics of WORLD HISTORY..including the areas of Africa, Asia, etc, then that will give people the appetite to delve deeper into the subjects that really interest them the most.

Learning doesn't have to be boring, especially if you have the right teacher and the right tools for learning. They entirely GLOSSED over Asia when I was in high school, and in my high school we had a lot of Asian students eager for learning about their own history!

If schools were to teach the basics and give us all a piece of something to excite us..to make us want to go on and learn more about a subject, we should be able to have that! It made me want to go learn about Asian culture and history.

But..To just say "Marco Polo discovered Asia..The End" sucked. I am sorry!

[Confusious]

37. Well, even though high school was a long time ago,

I remember my history classes, and one thing that pissed me off was the fact that they devoted 4 pages ( 2 pages, front and back ) to World War 2.

A war which defines the present day, which changed the world in so many ways that we are still counting, and they devoted 4 pages to it.

How many pages would there be if they added more? 1 page?

Besides that, if you really wanted to learn about it, you could have taken Asian history at a community college. Those credits would transfer back for a HS degree and Forward for a college degree.

[csziggy]

42. Then call it "Western Civilization" not "World History"

Or call it the "History of the American Empire" if you want Americans to understand their own history better. But the schools are going to call the class "WORLD History" then by damn teach the history of the entire world and not a Euro-centric history that ignores the contributions of three quarters of the world's peoples. That is propaganda, not education.

The basics of education are far too dumbed down - schools should not teach to the lowest level of the student body. They should teach to the level of the top third of the students.

[Confusious]

43. So I suppose you consider

NAZIs socialists. A name is everything, in your opinion.

And your "history of the American empire" speaks volumes. Like we're the only people to have ever done it.

News for you, every other culture on the earth has tried to beat the shit out of every other culture in the world and take their stuff.

Not cheering for it, not excusing it, but the "noble savage" never existed.


"They should teach to the level of the top third of the students."

That's what college and graduate schools are for.

[csziggy]

46. No, but you are advocating that "World History" ignore three quarters of the content

To make the subject more palatable to the lowest denomination of the American population. If you want to restrict the content, name the class to correctly reflect what is being taught. The "world history" taught in the nineteenth century pretty much reflected the history that the British Empire wanted people to believe - that civilization was established in the Middle East and inexorably moved through Greece, Rome, Europe to the creation of Britain as the dominate force in the world.

The American education system just picked up this theme and applied it to our "Manifest Destiny" concept of American history. Of course the victors always write the histories, but unless we want future generations to continue to make mistakes we need to make sure they are taught truth over propaganda. Ten years ago I would not have used the phrase the "American Empire" but I am more and more convinced that is what the corporations and conservatives want.

And where the hell did I say anything about a "noble savage"? I just want the truth about civilizations other than the few traditionally taught to be part of our schools curriculum. How insulting to the students from Asia, South America, Africa and even Eastern Europe to have the history of their ancestors totally ignored - or as in the case of my World History teacher, completely dismissed as if it never existed. No "noble savage" crap, but the reality that vigorous civilizations existed everywhere humans lived and that whole continents were NOT blank slates ripe for the "noble whites" to move in and bring the dubious benefits of Western European culture to the natives.

I was in high school during the 1960s and we were taught absolutely nothing about the factors that led up to either of the World Wars, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. There was not one sentence about French colonization in our textbooks - as far as they were concerned, England and Spain, with a few efforts by Portugal, colonized the non-white world. How could any of the students I went to school with make informed decisions about the Vietnam War which directly affected all of us when our educational system completely ignored it? With that level of institutional ignorance, no wonder the US keeps getting embroiled in conflicts that are bleeding us dry.

Teaching to the lowest level of our students leaves the top level unprepared for college and graduate school and it also leave the middle third unchallenged and less educated that they should be. Most "average" people are far more capable of learning than they are given credit for - but our schools more and more are interested in the appearance of overall success than in actually teaching students as much as possible.

[Confusious]

50. Same answer, different person

"To make the subject more palatable to the lowest denomination of the American population. If you want to restrict the content, name the class to correctly reflect what is being taught. The "world history" taught in the nineteenth century pretty much reflected the history that the British Empire wanted people to believe - that civilization was established in the Middle East and inexorably moved through Greece, Rome, Europe to the creation of Britain as the dominate force in the world."

So we should make it so hard that we just dump the lower two-thirds off like they are garbage? There are always AP classes and Community College. As for it being About the British, your history is a little off, and the same with manifest destiny.

Seems that we would teach western history in a "western country"

"And where the hell did I say anything about a "noble savage"? I just want the truth about civilizations other than the few traditionally taught to be part of our schools curriculum. How insulting to the students from Asia, South America, Africa and even Eastern Europe to have the history of their ancestors totally ignored - or as in the case of my World History teacher, completely dismissed as if it never existed. No "noble savage" crap, but the reality that vigorous civilizations existed everywhere humans lived and that whole continents were NOT blank slates ripe for the "noble whites" to move in and bring the dubious benefits of Western European culture to the natives."

Again, this is a western country, and they could take a "Asian Civilizations" class at a community college. There are LOTS of things my school didn't teach, that you had to take at at a community college. And I scoured books for them also.

I brought up the "noble savages" because you seem to be acting like America is the "Evil of evils" and the only one who has ever done this crap. Taking slavery for example, it was the Europeans who took them on ships and sold blacks as slaves, but how did they get to the docks in the first place? Competing tribes sold them to the Europeans.

I remember my history classes, and one thing that pissed me off was the fact that they devoted 4 pages ( 2 pages, front and back ) to World War 2.

A war which defines the present day, which changed the world in so many ways that we are still counting, and they devoted 4 pages to it.

How many pages would there be if they added more? 1 page?

"I was in high school during the 1960s and we were taught absolutely nothing about the factors that led up to either of the World Wars, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War."

So they don't have time to teach that, but you think they should add on more.

"Asia, South America, Africa and even Eastern Europe"

Asia could be taught ( Or the student could just take it at community college ), but maybe you could find me the written histories of America and Africa before the Europeans came. I would be most interested to see that, and so would quite a few scholars.

North Africa doesn't count. It's covered in "Western Civ" along with eastern Europe ( Which kind of just sat there and got ran over by western Europeans and Russians ) , which is what the class was called when I took it. Mine was 20 years later. And in College and again in College, 1 year ago.

[beyurslf]

22. In HS, we had a west civ clas that tuaght everything you described.

The world history class actually focused on the history not covered as "Western history".

[AsahinaKimi]

26. Thats awesome!

I had to take Asian studies later in College, and learned a lot about the Culture and History of the regions in Asia. I still love learning about it..

No one ever mentioned the AINU and I only recently learned about them this past year. I find the whole subject interesting, that the AINU even survived to be around today. As bloody as medieval Japan had been, with the Shogun and Samurai ruling over the people, its a wonder the AINU were not destroyed.

[Forkboy]

25. Forget real history, read The Years of Rice and Salt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt

It's more respectful than real history ever was.

[hayu_lol]

30. The Ainu are a very interesting study...

racially, they are hairy, round-eyed, proto-caucasoids. They had a religion based partly on the bear. So did the Lapp at the time, and the burials in the Gobi included Lapp-like caucasians. As you have said, they are interesting for a number of reasons.

Japanese had no written language until the 9th century CE. Korean scribes were brought in who were skilled in written Chinese. These characters in Japanese today are known as Kanji. First book was by a woman, 'The Pillow Book(diary)'of Sei Shonagun. Women at the time were not allowed to learn to write--that was reserved strictly for males. She got around this by sitting behind a screen when her brothers were learning to write. Her book gave us(when finally available)the best look at Japanese Court Life of that period(10th century, CE). Another useful book would be 'The Tale Of Genji.' Sort of a huge epic work that again told us much about those times.

We in the west know very little about Asia...a bit more since all the war involvement, but for the man and woman in the street, little that is either true or informative.\

At one point in history, the Japanese sent a delegation to China to meet with the emperor of China. This Emperor would not see them, nor would he, under any conditions meet with 'those dwarfs from the east.'

Fascinating part of the world today. We either learn about that part or we will ultimately suffer for the lack.

[AsahinaKimi]

33. well stated!

I also remember reading that at one point during the EDO period book shops opened up, and there had been a woman author who traveled between her home and Edo often. She wrote about stories along the highway, which became a popular read later on.

During that time period, of the Shogun, many of the Samurai class had to live in Edo and often made trips back to their home areas to check on how things were going. The Shogun thought it was best to keep the different clan leaders in Edo so he knew where they were and what they were doing.

So in a sense, all roads lead to Edo (Which is now present day Tokyo).

Also note, this was also the time period of The Floating World, the time of the Geisha and it was interesting how many Samurai went broke trying to be able to afford the pleasures of hearing music, listening to poetry, and the skilled conversations of the courtesans and the Geisha. Since the Samurai were stuck in Edo, too often they could not return home to visit their wives and children. Many of them ended up using what little stipend they had left to visit Geisha houses.

[Beartracks]

49. Fascinating. I had to look them up. n/t

[AsahinaKimi]

29. Roots of the Japanese

I think this was the film I was refering to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-srlMQ9gBnk&feature=related

also this:
Ainu, First People of Japan, The Original & First Japanese
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=endv3PVpXFg&feature=related

Yayoi linked to Yangtze area: DNA tests reveal similarities to early wet-rice farmers
Some of the first wet-rice farmers in Japan might have migrated from the lower basin of Chinas Yangtze River more than 2,000 years ago, Japanese and Chinese researchers said Thursday.
This was suggested by DNA tests conducted by the researchers that showed genetic similarities between human remains from the Yayoi Period found in southwestern Japan and the early Han Dynasty found in Chinas central Jiangsu Province, Satoshi Yamaguchi told reporters.
People who introduced irrigation techniques to the Japanese archipelago in the Yayoi Period (250 B.C.-300) were believed to have come to Japan either from the Korean Peninsula across the Tsushima Strait, or from northern China across the Yellow Sea.
The latest findings, however, bolster another theory suggesting the origin of the Yayoi people was an area south of the Yangtze, which is believed to be the birthplace of irrigated rice cultivation.
Yamaguchi, a researcher at Japans National Science Museum, said the researchers compared Yayoi remains found in Yamaguchi and Fukuoka prefectures with those from early Han (202 B.C.-8) in Jiangsu in a three-year project begun in 1996.
The researchers found many similarities between the skulls and limbs of Yayoi people and the Jiangsu remains.
Two Jiangsu skulls showed spots where the front teeth had been pulled, a practice common in Japan in the Yayoi and preceding Jomon Period.
But the most persuasive findings resulted from tests revealing that genetic samples from three of 36 Jiangsu skeletons also matched part of the DNA base arrangements of samples from the Yayoi remains, the scientists said.

This suggests the relationship between the Japanese and Chinese based on an argument of their ancestral tribes.

[hayu_lol]

32. Really good thread Asahina...

my field was sociology/Asian Studies with special emphasis on China.

There are a few very good ethnologies about the Ainu in some university libraries. One was done by a Nun. If you can find it, it has a wealth of info. They were published about 35 years ago.

I always watch your threads when you touch on these subjects.

[AsahinaKimi]

35. XIE XIE!

Thank you, kind sir. I have always love learning about the culture and history of Asia. I have always loved going to our very own Asian Art Museum here in San Francisco.

**A note about that..I always thought it was funny, that in the Museum, under the section of Japan, they had on display a clearly faked "Samurai Katana" when they could approach the Japanese Sword Society, which is also here in San Francisco and ask them to provide a real one, even if its just on a loan.


I would give them one myself, (Since I have in my possession my father's family set), but if I did, my father would probably kill me! lol!!

[LeftyMom]

31. They hadn't when I was in school.

The area I grew up in was overwhelmingly Asian, and we still didn't hear anything about what was going on pre-European exploration. Well, they'd throw in a picture of a vase or something, and there'd be a few throwaway sentences "oh, and while Europeans were picking lice off of each other, China had a strong centralized government, the printing press, moving type, a system of medicine, gunpowder and was more advanced in nearly every possible measure." There would be one test question and it would be a multiple choice question about which dynasty the vase was from.

[AsahinaKimi]

38. Thanks for this ..

A little while ago I was looking for the list of contributions that China brought to the world. You stated them well! I remembered some of them, but could not remember all of them.

Its funny, I just had this image in my head of Marco Polo bringing back "pasta" and showing Italians for which they made all sorts of dishes, including Spaghetti, so they used to say, each time an Italian ate pasta, they would praise and owe their thanks to Marco Polo.

I was like what??? Noooooo!! He brought it back from China, he didn't invent the damn thing!

[LeftyMom]

39. The other really weird thing:

The area I grew up in is largely Vietnamese. The high school I went to was, at the time over half Vietnamese, and probably 3/4 southeast Asian of some sort. It would be more now. NOT ONCE in my schooling did a history class get past the civil rights movement and mention, even in passing, the Vietnam war. Not one word.

I really have to think that was intentional.

[AsahinaKimi]

44. Amazing..

We had many Vietnamese students as well, but our school was like the mini United Nations. I can not think of any one group of people that were not represented at our school. We had nearly everyone, well with maybe the exception of Inuit, but we did have Native Americans!

My favorite memories of our school was having its yearly Multi~cultural Fair, and my best friend and I ran the only Japanese booth! It was hell of a lot of fun!

[madamesilverspurs]

34. ALL of my high school history classes

were taught by off-season coaches. A couple of them just stood there and read aloud, and poorly, from the text book. My interest in history began in college where my first history professor had written our text book. He was passionate about history, and had an elegant way about his methods that made his students want to draw the connections between past and present. He retired after my second semester, I could have happily learned from him for years.

Thirty years later, when I went back to school for my degree, the 100 level history requirement had several text books, all centered on western civilization. The main text was a joke. In the brief chapter on the Middle East there were a couple of paragraphs about archaeology in Israel, accompanied by a picture of a pentagram which the caption mis-identified as a "star of David". When I showed it to the instructor he merely shrugged and noted that his emphasis was in African history (one of the strangest non-answers I ever got). It also amazed me that a course on "western" civilization could fail to discuss in depth those vibrant civilizations that predated Europeans in the Americas.

---

[Igel]

48. Too much to cover.

And not much relevant to most students.

When I took Russian people assumed I was Russian. They looked at me strangely when I was in an Indian history class, and was neither of South Asian extraction nor especially interested in S. Asian culture or religion.

It's a case of, "I want to learn the history of people that look like me." It's reflected often enough in this thread, and typically true. Complications arise when people have a "look like me" interest in another region's or people's history, or other versions of the history standardly taught.

Depressing, really. Taught a literature class in which I had to focus on serfdom and the "woman question" in Russian literature because the class--a summer class with two black footballers and an incoming frosh woman--really couldn't get up the interest unless they could see how it affected people like them. It was only after I pointed out the similarities between black slavery in the US and serfdom in Russia and identified key feminist issues between Russia and the US that they actually saw a reason to participate. Then the men couldn't muster any interest in the "woman's question" and the woman was mostly interested in women.

Being interested primarily in themselves I could see; one has to have a culture before you can explore others, and understand one's own history in some sense to be interested in others. But they really only wanted to read about themselves. The incoming frosh at 18, sure; she was immature. But the 4th and 5th year seniors? They should have known better.