No country for old women

[eridani]

And that shitstain Simpson wants to cut Social Security.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/feb/20/older-women-us-recession

For women on the cusp of retirement, particularly those with only their own income to rely on, the situation is no better. Since 2007 the unemployment rate among women over 55 has almost doubled and their chances of finding new jobs are as minimalist as the social security checks that await them.

Yvonne who is now 67 lost her job in 2006. She was 62 then so eligible to claim social security but her monthly payments are approximately 32% less than she would have received had she been able to hold out until the normal retirement age of 66. She is scraping by at the moment with the help of food stamps and intermittent unemployment checks but lives in fear of losing her apartment. A reasonable fear considering her monthly social security payment of $898 leaves her $75 short on her rent.

Cassandra who is 62 knows all about not being able to make rent. Her husband died in 2004. Two years later she was injured in a car accident and lost her job. For seven months she had no income whatsoever. She was evicted and spent most of last year living in a homeless shelter. Now Cassandra receives disability payments of $750 a month and has trouble affording basic essentials like toiletries (and I'm not talking expensive anti-wrinkle creams.)

Sadly these women are not outliers. According to the census bureau 17% of all single women over the age of 60 have incomes below the federal poverty level (a ridiculously low figure of $10,830 per year). An additional 19.9% are living on less than $16,000 a year (ie between 100 and 150% of the federal poverty level.) All told, approximately 37% of single women over 60 are poor.

[theHandpuppet]

1. Thank you for posting this

But since this is only an article about *old women* forced into poverty and homelessness I doubt it will garner much interest here.

[roguevalley]

48. I have a decent enough retirement and a part-time job. I get by. I am

so damned fortunate I can hardly express it but its been a living hell this past year getting my parents probate settled and having medical bills to take care off. It is so easy to fall off the cliff.

[1776Forever]

2. Try $674 a month - Even after working 30 years! Yes it stinks to high heaven!!

And if anything would happen to my husband I don't know if I could find anything unless one of my kids put me up and I do NOT want that to happen! I raised 5 children with a totally disabled man and then went on to get my GED and eventually my Master's Degree but because I didn't have very many years in working I get the lowest Social Security payment! After divorcing my first husband who was very abusive and living on my own things really went down hill financially for me. I did excellent work and was awarded for it in everything but pay! The men around me made almost twice as much but that was over 10 years ago and the new law doesn't help me out.

Oh and don't even bring up Student Loans!

I hope more older women stand up to this idiocy! WTH do they think we are supposed to do?

:argh:

[Triana]

9. "WTH do they think we are supposed to do? "

Drop dead. That's what they'd like us to do.

That's it! We're just an expendable commodity, dontchaknow.

[WinkyDink]

54. Dead would be good. No drain on the System, ya know? AMERICANS HATE OLD WOMEN. We aren't that far

from the days when younger and more male persons tortured and burnt us as witches.

[amandabeech]

66. Well, that was the general attitude around here during the primaries. ;n/t

[Tunkamerica]

113. because that's what this is about

nice segue to being totally off-subject.

[elehhhhna]

12. wodowed grandmas are "getting by" on les than 400/mo in SS "benefitss".

It's ridiculous.

What's worse is tht SS was designed to SUPPPLEMENT your pension. Ask anybody under 50 what a pension IS and most will give you a blank stare.

[butterfly77]

52. K&R!

[Brooklyns_Finest]

146. What is wrong with your kids taking you in?

You raised 5 kids, I would hope that they would want to take care of their mom. My parents are getting old (okay, they are old), and I am beginning to contemplate how I am going to take care of them.

I also have a brother who is on permanent disability, and I have to figure a way to help him. It is a lot of weight on my shoulders, but I feel it is my duty as the "successful" child.

[ccharles000]

3. k/r

[1776Forever]

4. Who the Hell is un-recommending this? Are you really serious?

You could be next! Man - Woman - Child - no one but the BIG Boys are safe in this country any more! That is the way I feel!

[Darth_Kitten]

6. Because to them women don't matter, period.

n/t

[WinkyDink]

56. Oh, "women" do. The kind that appeals to Tiger Woods, e.g. We older ones? Not so much.

[Darth_Kitten]

70. I think you matter.

For what it's worth. :D

[Maru Kitteh]

79. I think both of you matter!

:-)

[Darth_Kitten]

83. that's sweet.

:D You rock!

[Darth_Kitten]

5. Though I don't consider 50 or 60 "old"....

I do know that women get screwed in terms of pay and opportunity.

[eridani]

10. It's "young old" as opposed to "old old"

The fucking shitstain insurance companies sure think that 50 is old.

[Darth_Kitten]

49. Fuck em......

:)

[1776Forever]

22. All due respect - Try to get a job after 50 or God forbid 60 in this economy!

Believe me it is disastrous - man or woman!

[GoCubsGo]

121. Hell, try getting one after 40.

I just read that the fastest growing group of the unemployed are women ages 45-60. If I can find the link to that, I will post it. But, I don't need the statistics to tell me what I am experiencing myself. I just turned 49, and have been scraping by on occasional temp work for the past 3 years. And, I have a fucking Masters degree. I feel for the women my age who only have high school diplomas.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

142. Hi there, I'm waving my fucking DOCTORATE degree at ya!

Juris Doctor - law degree - basically 90 semester hours of pure hell. Graduated 25 years ago. Have never gotten a job using my law degree, even though I could be training trial lawyers. Looked for a legal asst. job for two years, with the help of my law school's employment office.

Got ONE interview in two years of looking. My old career died in 1994 and the stress ate my lunch --I've had HBP for twenty years. (former court reporter).

Also have a BA in pre-med from an excellent liberal arts school (No. 1 in liberal arts colleges W. of the Mississippi, in U.S. News and World Report college issue for several years now).

Biology degree didn't help me get a job either. :banghead:


Yeah, I'm bitter and pissed. Three college degrees, over 320 semester hours and none of it other than junior college has done a dman thing to help me get a job.

My philosophy is now on a T-shirt, which I have. Black background, big white letters:

QUIT
WORK
PLAY
MUSIC

[JDPriestly]

71. Younger women are competing on a slightly more even playing field

But we who grew up in the 40s and 50s were, first, not raised or educated to fit into the career world, and second treated like dirt in the workplace. I remember when I turned 50. One day at lunch, my male boss who was a few years older than I, turned to me and said "There's a reason men divorce women when they turn 50." Fortunately, mine did not, and I hope we both live long. I don't know how women make it all alone. Two do live somewhat cheaper than one even if Social Security is their income.

The worst is that jobs for older women are few and far between. Even if you take extra courses (and rack up student loans -- let's don't talk about what a student loan taken out at 50 can mean at 67) and update your skills, employers would rather look at a pretty face.

And while a few women still have good posture in their late 60s, many of us look a little hunched over. A touch of arthritis is all it takes. A slightly curved spine looks about as energetic as a very broad waistline or very fleshy hips. Add a few wrinkles to the face and a slightly sagging jaw and employers don't glance twice.

I remember that in one workplace a colleague invited me to her Botox party. No thanks.

At that same place, another colleague -- male by the way -- asked we whether I had ever thought of plastic surgery -- whether I had had breast enhancement. You've got to be kidding. I certainly don't look like I did.

And you have to understand I did not in any way invite these comments. I am a discrete polite older woman who never, ever uses profanity or is overly familiar with my co-workers. I am, after all, a woman of my generation.

Younger women are far more likely to be treated as equals -- with respect -- in the workplace than is anyone over 55.

[raccoon]

119. If you still know how to contact your former boss, please send him some dog poop for me. nt

[Morning Dew]

7. kick

[Forkboy]

8. K&R

[laylah]

11. K&R!

[upi402]

13. Democrats better nip that in the bud or they're 100% toast

eom

[Greyhound]

14. Just FUUUUCCCCKK!

:grr:
:kick: & R

[surrealAmerican]

15. 37%.

That is a frightening statistic. K & R.

[madamesilverspurs]

16. Yet another continuing legacy of St. Reagan.

In his war on women (couched in terms of 'welfare reform') he coined the term 'welfare queen', and promoted policies that blamed women and children for all the country's economic woes. Single mothers were singled out for special vilifications. Even years after Reagan, in the mid '90s, Reagan's education executioner, William Bennet, was advocating the sterilization of impoverished single mothers.

If Mom had the kids in daycare while she worked she was accused of relegating the duties of parenting to strangers; if she stayed home to raise her children, relying on welfare to pay the bills, she was accused of teaching her children to be dependent on the government. She was condemned no matter what she did, nevermind the studies that showed that over 80% of children on welfare were in that status for the sole reason that their absent fathers were failing to pay court ordered child support. Now, many of those mothers have entered or will soon enter that over-50 demographic, all too often to be met with the inadequacies of their 'benefits'.

It's bad enough that they've splattered his name all over ships and airports and roads. If they succeed in their efforts to add his face to Mt.Rushmore, this old lady will bring the dynamite to remove it.

---

[femrap]

33. But don't forget it was

Clinton who put raygun's words into action.

[JDPriestly]

72. No one stays home to talk to Jr. in his first three years --

and then we wonder why are teachers are so incompetent. Check out the work of Konrad Lorenz on the development of the brain circuits in the minutes and months following birth. No baby is ready to be put with a sitter or in a day care until it is about three to four years old. It's brain needs a great deal of contact with a single, nurturing caretaker in the first three years in order to develop its potential.

[fasttense]

114. No one stays home with Jr because they can't afford it.

Living on one income now a days is a luxury.

I think 90% of women and 60% of men would stay home with their babies if they could afford it.

[JDPriestly]

115. Precisely.

When I lived in Europe, working parents in the countries in which I lived, by law received fairly lengthy maternity leave. They were not compensated all that well, but they were compensated a small amount that helped them and their families to make the choice for one of the parents to stay home.

[leftstreet]

17. K&R

[Kitty Herder]

18. K&R

[Maru Kitteh]

19. This country seethes with hatred for post-menopausal women.

Dried up.
Hag.
Biddy.

*sigh*

[truedelphi]

21. TV show after TV show lambaste the "mother-in-law" and of course,

Except for the very ancient show "Golden Girls," older women are mostly non-existent on TV.

We get our face shown only for ads for "Depends" and occasionally the ads for vitamin drinks and wrinkle creams. (Though even the wrinkle cream ads feature girls in their twenties!)

[Jackpine Radical]

25. Ah, but crones...

[femrap]

34. This country hates the

young ones too....whores, sluts, shut-up bitch.

At least when you're old, you can somewhat escape into the 'invisible' category which is OK unless you want or need something...then you gotta have a very loud and smart-ass voice to get what you deserve.

No sighing! Yell!

[Enthusiast]

42. Eventually the country will hate

all baby boomers. Useless mouths to feed.

[femrap]

128. I thought they already did!

Some of the twenty and thirty-somethings seem to think they know everything and I'm referred to as 'crazy.' I ask them if they have ever heard the term 'crazy like a fox.'

I just wanna head out into the country and hunker down....try to be as independent and self-reliant as possible. I learned how to can last summer...food from my garden. Not 'can-can.' ;) So now I say:

"Yes, I can can." :silly:

[WinkyDink]

57. Here's an irony: Younger women, too, despise older women. I read their comments on male singers'

boards. They use all the denigrating terms a male misogynist does.

[Raine]

111. another irony is that one day they will be old

if they're lucky enough to live that long. Then again maybe they will consider themselves unlucky that they have lived long enough to be "irrelevant" as they think those are that they scorn. I hope I live long enough to see how they handle it when the shoe is on the other foot. :evilgrin:

edit: added word

[Enthusiast]

143. I guess it is easy to forget

that when they are still young and beautiful. Unfortunately youthfulness is gone in a flash like a springtime bloom.

[femrap]

127. Our culture has swung to the

right. And the propaganda from the right has made sure of that. The younger generation of women has no Gloria Steinem, Bella Abzug, nor Shirley Chisholm.

They're just told to be Eye Candy and get a male by being 'sexy feminist.' Very sad.

I guess all of these young women are planning on dying before the age of 40...or maybe 35.

[Maru Kitteh]

77. And still

the greatest insult even a young female "whore" can pay another is to accuse her of being old. Fat and old is a double bonus, but "old?" For women especially, old can always be counted upon to ensure that no matter what other insults have been thrown in the mix they have been used to the maximum effect.

Just one example. The first page of results in a demotivational poster site using the keyword "old" yields this.


Burkas: Sometimes its a good thing. tags: burkas old good thing fugly lol funny arab teeth

contrast with this:



Old Guys - We're all going to be one someday. tags: old people are treasures too


Old woman = fugly
Old guy = treasure

[femrap]

129. Those 2 pictures say it all.....

Patriarchy in all its cruel glory.

I wonder if dudes ever sit down and look at the world and all of its horrid problems and miseries and realize that men are the cause of most...they have bought into this patriarchal machoism that is going to destroy us all.

The feminine is reviled...the masculine is glorified. Big trouble.:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:


Oh....and I read that some evangelical preacher said that this is women's fault....we have failed to 'civilize' the male. How about that?

A woman can never win.....never.

Thank you for this post...it's a keeper!!!

[truedelphi]

20. I think this is nothing more than a deliberate cultural genocide of older people.

Statistics show that people over 50 who have lost a job have a very hard time finding another.

For one thing, especially if their job is the household source of insurance, no one can afford to hire the older worker. And note that almost every single version of Health Care "reform" made it contingent on employers to pay for the workers, so if any of these versions of the Health Care "Reform" Bills make it through and pass as legislation, the older person will be permanently screwed.

I don't know how many times on this board, when discussing the situation off having endured a medical bankrupcy, and how we went for months with little in the way of food, and if not for a generous landlord, we'd have lived in our van.

People say things like, you should have saved more. Do people have any idea how hard it is to save, especially given the costs of college, the 15% deductions from paycheck for Social Security, and of course the huge costs of health insurance? And how little it takes in terms of an illness to be wiped out? And this from people living in a nation where the average household has only enough reserves to last six weeks, if that.

[femrap]

36. Why does the 'Reform'

demand that the employer provide insurance??? This makes any product we produce more costly than any other country since the gov't pays for the health care. Or do we all become part-time employees?

Is it simply to line the pockets of Insurance, Big Pharma, and Hospitals???

The least they can do is make Assisted Suicide Legal....or are they so sadistic as to want to watch us die in the streets?

[truedelphi]

44. My answer to your first question:

because the alternative to the employer providing the insurance is

Universal Single Payer Health Care

A solution which Obama used to back, way back in the 2004 race for the Illinois Senatorial Seat.

But while running for office in Dec 2007 to become President, he must have realized how he would need the Big Insurers for some serious campaign funding, because he amended his previous commitment to Universal Single Payer for All to become this illogical statement of hogwash

"Although if we were starting from scratch, Universal Single Payer HC would be the best and most logical solution to the Health Care crisis. But since we already have a system in place, we must find an uniquely American solution, that will keep the system we know and that serves us up and running."

Part of the problem lies with the Media - if any candidate had made such an illogical statement thirty or forty years ago, that statement would have been parsed by a Cronkite or an Ed Murrow. "How can we seek reform, if we must keep in place the institutions that are so awful that we are seeking reform?" No logic there, but it was one of his key platform statements!

[femrap]

132. How soon I forget....

yes, 'Universal Health Care.' Can't have that....we'd be a bunch of Socialists like the French and British.

I miss Cronkite so much. I wish we didn't have Cable TV, then if one were watching TV at 6:30, one was watching the 'news.'

May Murdoch choke on his money and his US citizenship.

[laughingliberal]

55. Yep. Save money? I started out making enough to pay the rent, transportation, eat, and buy uniforms

to work in. Over 30 years of working harder for less every year, this became a stretch. I enrolled in a 401k 3 different times and had to pull it both times-once for hospital expenses (up and above what my insurance paid), once when I lost everything in a flood and had to start over at 43, once 2 years ago when I lost my job after my husband had just been diagnosed with cancer (needed it to pay a $1200 per month COBRA premium so he could get treated). I guess people who managed to do OK can't see that it wasn't that way for everyone.

[truedelphi]

147. I keep telling people that I don't expect miracles in terms of

Health Care Reform. But for heaven's sakes, if the bastards in Congress cannot at least adjust the tax code so that if due to medical expenses of any kind, that you have to take out your retirement savings from whatever sort of plan it is in - you should not be paying penalites or the 10% tax Fed tax that are currently part of the tx ssytem.

Would that really be so difficult for those weasels in Congress to do for us?

[AnneD]

76. I was a single working mom....

I was lucky to in my second work incarnation to work for a place that had a defined benefit not a deferred compensation (403B of 401K). Before I had started here-I had worked enough quarters to get some Social Security and even with my pension (something ANY other Woman in America gets-called survivor benefits) but thanks to Tom DeLay and the gut-less DEMS-I will never get the SS that I contributed to as they amended the law-this affects teachers especially.

I wanted to contribute to my daughter's education but decided to finance my retirement instead. I felt so awful but I told her she could take out a loan for education but I could not take out a loan for retirement. This became a certainty when her Dad took me to court and got custody when she was a teen and it cost me half my income (over 1K) per month for the one child. He is now supporting her in college-as he never set anything aside all those years I was raising her by myself. and the house will be sold when his Mom passes on-she is 76 now. I have no sympathy for him-he has lived rent free with his Mom pretty much all his life. He is 50 yo and is just now really starting to work (boo fucking hoo) and I am already able to retire anytime I want and will be debt free this year.

Oh, and my daughter has gotten good scholarships and I hope to help her pay off her student loans once she graduates as best I can. I have taught her the value of being debt free. Oh, and being the Mom I am-I have put $10,000 in a retirement account for her (at the age of 18) unbeknownst to her and she should have a well funded retirement thanks to compounding-I don't want her to worry about her old age or depend on a man for security in her old age.

I am looking forward to retiring and starting my own business. I want to help others avoid the pitfalls that can happen in old age. I have been preparing for my retirement job for a long time. I hope to be a personnel financial planner and I want to specialize in women (esp Nurses-my occupation). I never want to see a Nurse at the age of 65 having to work the floors of a hospital-it is too much to ask any human being.

Society has never liked older women and I think they fear women's power and wisdom at this age. We can be quite fearless if we want to be and what can they do to punish us. Just ask the dictators in SA.

[raccoon]

117. "Society has never liked older women"---you got that right. nt

[AnneD]

145. and yet they are the glue....

that holds it all together.

[Cleita]

23. Yep, I hang in there and work part time, which keeps my head above water.

But the day I can't work anymore and I am seventy years old, is the day I fall back on Social Security and some savings. If they take that away from me I will sink through the cracks. I too am a widow.

[hfojvt]

24. I am having a hard time feeling sorry for these women

My own take-home pay is about $760 a month.

Secondly, the article is talking about a small group - single women.

Whoops, it turns out I am wrong about that last line. Single women under the age of 40 are as rare as hen's teeth, but that's not true of women over 65, because in 2008 41.9% of them had outlived their spouses, and another 10.2% were divorced. Leaving only 41.7% of women over age 65 living with a spouse. A mere 4% of them had never married. That's about the same as the men's side, which makes me a pretty rare bird. Only 4.2% of men over age 65 had never married (it's also possible that many of the unmarried guys never made it to age 65). A whopping 71.9% of them are still living with a spouse, while only 7.5% of them were divorced. I was thinking that similar numnbers would hold for women :blush:

I wonder how many of those women are getting help from their kids that does not show up in the statistics. I find it sad that both Cassandra and Yvonne were apparently renters. By the time a person is in their sixties they should have a home that's paid for and then $898 a month goes a lot further.

[Jackpine Radical]

26. Wow, what impressive compassion.

Nobody, NOBODY should be living on $700 a month. Not you, not elderly women, not elderly men, not anybody. Thjat's catfood city. All of these people are hurting. It is a great tragedy that we cannot do better than that for those at the margins. I truly hate what this country has become. Tax cuts for the rich and pet food for the poor. I've been poor, I may be poor again. In the meantime, my wife & I give what we can to food banks and similar charities. Last Christmas we gave ourselves the most memorable Yule/Christmas presents either of us has ever gotten. We decided not to buy presents for each other, scraped up a couple of thousand dollars, and divided it among the Salvation Army, a homeless program, the Community Table, and one or two other charities. It was a totally selfish act, because the pleasure it brought us was far greater than what getting any new toys might have done for us.

[1776Forever]

29. Thank God there are people like you and your family!

What can one say: Blessings to you and yours!

:pals: :yourock: :pals:

[Jackpine Radical]

65. On rereading that post, it sounds like

I was trolling for praise, and I'm somewhat embarrassed for that. I don't think what we do is extraordinary. We're just lucky to have some resources, and find it painful to see people who do not.

[hfojvt]

45. it's not though, at least not where and how I live

I even have two dogs, which are an unnecessary expense, but I don't eat their food. Yesterday I skipped the 3rd Saturday Breakfast I was planning to attend and spent 3 hours helping to hand out commodities. The Captains were surprised because the line virtually disappeared at noon and they still have half of their food left. I gave them $200 last Christmas and also 24 hours of bell ringing.

Even in my town though, the little house next door rents for $550 a month, which is why people need to get away from rent. It's not that they don't have enough money as much as it is their expenses are way too high. The sucky part is that inexpensive houses, like the one next door to me, end up being bought by 'investors' and then rented to poor people. But at least there were two families living in that tiny house.

[Jackpine Radical]

62. How are you going to pay for heat, lights, phone, etc. on $800 or whatever?

Heat in the winter here for a relatively small house can easily cost $400/month; power another $100; property taxes $80/month (or more); telephone, what? $50? And so on. I live in the country so I have no idea about city water, sewage, etc., but they aren't free, and houses are always requiring some sort of upkeep: painting, roofs, repairs of this and that. Then, if elderly, they are likely to be paying for a Medicare supplement or for medications out of pocket, and other out of pocket health care expenses. Maybe they need a car to get around. I don't see how a single elderly person can make it comfortably on anything like what you suggest.

[truedelphi]

148. Don't worry. Pretty soon, NOBODY will be living on

$ 700 - they will be living on -0- dollars, as Social Security is about to be reformed.

At least it will be if the good Republican Senators serving on Baucus' health care committee have anything to do about it.

once after C Span had televised the committee meeting on HCR, the C Span folks left the mikes on, and one of the R. Senators told another, "Well, when we are finished with HCR, we should really move right away on Social Security reform!"

So the whole word "reform" now means - taking from those who deserve something and creating industry giveaways.

[1776Forever]

27. Are you sure you are in the right forum? The Repubs are down the street!

You cannot be serious and if you are you obviously aren't old enough to realize what women in this country have gone through in the last 50 years! I had to have 5 children in 1970 in Ohio before I could have my tubes tied so I had to raise those kids best I could with a totally ill husband. My middle son has MS and he was so bad about 5 years ago that his step-Dad and myself had to help support him and furnish him a place to live because he had never had any children and had no insurance - yes if he had been married and/or had children the State would have helped him out but because he never had children there was no help. So we got so far behind because of all the help he needed and because of high taxes and insurance in Florida where we lived that we had to file bankruptcy after I couldn't find a job there and lost our home. Sooooooo I really think you have no idea what you are talking about! Don't feel sorry for us but do realize the situations can be so detrimental that there is no CHOICE! We live within what we have been able to scrap together! We worked and raised families and we did what we could! I was born in poverty and raised myself up as best as I could. I have 5 wonderful children all of whom anyone would be proud of but none of them give me a dime and by the way a lot of these women never had children. EOM!

[Dr.Phool]

39. Now we know what's the matter with Kansas.

Talk about taxes and Insurance in Florida. I just paid my extortion to State Farm yesterday. I had to go into retirement money to do it. And, that was for 6 months premium.

[1776Forever]

97. Yes tell me! We had $1,400 insurance and $1,600 taxes on a $110,000 home 4yrs ago!

And that WAS NOT near the ocean or water - Lord knows what it is now! And forget the jobs in Florida! Even part-time was extremely hard to find but it just didn't cut it. There are so many people leaving Florida because of that! Now with the Shuttle Industry closing on the Spacecoast and the new privatization for low earth flights funding going elsewhere some of these towns will be almost empty even more then they are now!

[hfojvt]

46. your story does not equate to "what women have gone through"

After all, my mom had five children in the sixties. Also, I might note that your son seems to have had it worse than his mom. Sometimes people get hit with excrement storms that they cannot handle, that probably nobody could handle, but that does not equate to the idea that there is "NO CHOICE".

However, admittedly I was operating under the false assumption that 60-70% of elderly women were married as is true of men. I shoulda changed my subject line.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[1776Forever]

98. You're right - I could have told my son to F off and die! Would that be your choice!

Get real! I know someday you are going to relate! We all do! Good luck!

[hfojvt]

135. where did you get that?

I don't think I implied anything of the sort. However, you gave your story as an example of "what women have gone through" as if women have it so bad, and that is doubtless true of some women. However, it's true of some men too. Do you tell your son's story as an example of "what men have gone through"?

Look, life basically hits some people with lightning and burns them to a crisp. I sympathize. What bothers me though is when SOME lightning victims are singled out for special sympathy and help while the rest get ignored. Your son provides an example of that. In spite of his medical problems, he didn't get government help because he didn't fall into the category of the kind of people we help.

It also jumped out at me in the stories of both women that a major part of their problem seemed to be that their living expenses were way too high. I also thought, erroneously, that they were a small group. If 40% of single elderly women are poor, but only 20% of elderly women are single, then only 8% of all elderly women are poor.

[ThomWV]

28. I am perplexed - why do you use statistics and then challenge your own statistics?

If within your argument you nullify your argument why have made the argument at all?

[hfojvt]

47. I started to make an arguemt and then looked up some facts

I thought the facts were useful even if the original argument was not. I should have changed my subject line, but I was lazy.

[femrap]

37. How many people in NYC own their own

homes? And if you're raising a family, are you able to save up for the down payment?

Your comments appear quite judgmental and naive...never mind sexist.

You may not understand the word, 'unmarried' which includes, never married, widowed, and divorced. Plus women get 77 cents on the dollar of males.

Maybe there's a reason you make so little.

[hfojvt]

50. that's just another one of the 7 million reasons

people should not live in NYC.

Also. 96% of women seem to get $1.77 on the dollar of males because they usually have a claim on their spouses dollars too.

You call MY comments judgemental and then finish with your last line? :crazy:

I was surprised that such a low percentage of women over 65 were single, although I shouldn't have been since both of my grandmothers were widows for over 10 years.

[JDPriestly]

103. Where do you get the 96% of women seem to get $1.77 on the dollar

of males? Are you referring to the widow's benefits for Social Security.

That benefit exists because of the lower pay that women got for so many years and because for so many years, women could not even get jobs. In some states until the early 1970s, women could not get loans to start their own businesses.

We women who are nwo in our 60s suffered from discrimination all our lives, most importantly while we were in our formative years -- in our teens and twenties. Those are the years in which you make career choices and start your career.

Our choices were extremely limited. Even those of us who did well in school and managed to go to college were given really only three choices -- teaching, nursing or secretarial work.

I remember that at one point in my college years, I felt drawn to change my courses so that I could have a business minor. That would have been an excellent idea. But first, my parents had told me that they if I went to college, I had to get a teaching degree so that I could get a job when I got out. Second, in my wildest imagination, I could not figure out what in the work I, as a woman, could do with a degree in business. There probably were women in my age group who got degrees in business, but they weren't raised in a relatively poor family like I was.

The differences in Social Security laws for men and women are due to the fact that so many women depended in earlier times on their husband's income for support. That is still true today in some cases. It is often true as someone pointed out, for wives of servicemen. Also, women tend to live longer than men -- at least in our culture.

I'm not sure that a woman's benefits still increase if she worked and has her own Social Security. I'm not sure about that. I am fortunate because my husband is still working.

In my generation generally, the man's education, the man's career, came first. For younger couples that is not always the case.

Think about the difficulties that Sandra Day O'Connor, with all her social prestige and education, had being accepted as a lawyer. That was the rule then. Although far more women enter fields like law or medicine, their opportunities are still not as good as those of men -- not even today. And women who are not exceptionally well educated are still treated like dirt in the workplace.

[femrap]

133. OK....

your comments are dumb and stupid....I didn't say you were.

I love that Ignore Button. buh bye.

[Tunkamerica]

139. like people have said to this guy...

the repubs are down the street.

"Maybe there's a reason you make so little." Do I even have to point out the hypocrisy in this statement?

Oh, and the irony?

[spooky3]

53. "Single women under...40 are...rare"? WTF? There are millions of women

under the age of 40 who have never married, or divorced/widowed and not remarried. And the trend is upward.

"As of 2000, the most common household type in the U.S. is a person living alone. - Hobbs, Frank. 2005. “Examining American Household Composition: 1990 and 2000.” U.S. Census Bureau."

See this site for many more statistics that may surprise you:

http://www.unmarried.org/statistics.html

[WinkyDink]

58. "By the time a person is in their sixties they should have a home that's paid for...." You are NUTS

DO YOU KNOW WHAT COUNTRY YOU ARE IN?

[eridani]

93. Lots of older women were in exactly that position when they were your age

That's why they're POOR!! Duh.

[DURHAM D]

96. Let me guess. You live in a house bought by your grandparents.

and its been paid for for at least two generations.

I see Iola has a population of about 5,000. You obviously need to look around. And don't think I am dissing Kansans. I am from Kansas. I grew up in a town with less than 350 people. I just visited back there about 3 months ago. I can make a list of the women that are struggling. None of them pay rent because they live in family owned homes but they can't make ends meet - even in a farming community.

My Mother died a little over a year ago. My sister and I were going through her things and found a list of more than a dozen widowed women and each had a dollar amount listed next to their name. The amounts had been increased over time. Some of the names were crossed through because they had died. We knew all of the women - they were mothers of our friends when we were growing up. We asked our dad about the list and he said that my mother had been sending them money each month - for decades. My sister and I continue to send them monthly checks. Only three are still alive. It takes a village to help pay for the prescriptions.

[hfojvt]

138. sorry, no

I bought it myself in November of 2001 with money I had saved from my temp job. Then I got fired in March 2002, shortly before my 40th birthday. Then I got a part time janitor job in August. Thought I could substitute teach as well, but never got any calls. Didn't get a full time job, or health insurance until June of 2004. Paid my house off in October 2005 (although I still owed about $4,000 on some credit cards too. Funny story that. My mortgage was from Citibank at 5.5% on a 5-1 ARM. My Citi credit card offered a balance transfer at 3.9% for the life of the loan. So I borrowed $4,000 and paid it on my house. It was like Citi was paying me 1.6% to borrow money. But that money did not get paid back until maybe April 2006.)

I relate this to show it hasn't been a smooth and sunny trip for me. Actually it was looking around that got me in trouble, because my backyard neighbor is an elderly woman and I can see that her son visits every couple of weeks and helps out. That's where I got the idea that women might be getting help from their kids.

[raccoon]

118. But you still have to maintain the home--and that can cost mucho bucks.

For re-roofing, plumbing, electrical work, etc.

[Arkana]

30. Simpson, eh?

That drone from Sector 7G?

[winyanstaz]

31. And don't forget us Military widows....

and the orphans too....
After losing the bread winner a mostly stay at home mom is not eligible for a large social security on her own "earnings"...no matter how good a stay at home wife and mom she was. Sometimes she can draw on her husbands but not always.
In some cases you cannot collect both a social security or a government pension..you must chose one or the other but not both...even if you worked another 20 years outside of the military...and paid into social security all your life.
The military widows and orphans are well below the poverty level unless you are a high ranking officers widow.
They have also figured out a way to deny us health care as well.
Oh sure...they can point and say..oh yes ..you have insurance..because we do.
It's just that the co-pay is so dang high...on a military pension you cannot afford it anyways and you might as well not have any insurance at all.
They won't see you on the base if your a widow..you have to go to a private Dr. and pay the huge co-pays.
At $150.00 co-pay per Dr's visit...and not counting the high cost of the meds...it's hard to get any kind of medical care on $886.00 a month.
I am lucky to have roommates to share the cost of living here.
For elderly women it also depends on what area of the nation you live in.
My dear friend who uses electric heat in her two bedroom home on the east coast pays around $45.00 a month for electricity.
My bill for approx 1 month here in WA state is around $140.00..just for the electricity and not counting the gas bill.

[marybourg]

64. Electric heat, 2 bedroom house, east coast, $45? You left off the

"0" after the "5".

[winyanstaz]

92. she lives in Conneticut...

It is a very tiny place and well insulated...but still is a heck of a lot cheaper than my place.
Even her rent is cheaper..
She pays $300.00 a month which includes her water and garbage.
I pay $1,000.00 and water and garbage I have to pay seperate.

[marybourg]

105. Sounds like she has the lowest rent in Connecticut (a VERY expensive

place to live) as well as the lowest heating bill in the Northeast. Certainly not typical.

[winyanstaz]

106. Well if that is so then she is very lucky and I am not so jealious...

Her landlord is also a friend of mine and a very nice guy..(and a great artist in my opinion)....he probably isn't making any money on her renting his place.
I think a lot of the high cost of living is just greed.

[pink-o]

32. This speaks to my worst nightmare.

I have long had it in the back of my mind that when I can no longer work, I'm saving up enough for a one-way ticket to a tropical island, like Roratonga or Vanuatu. Seriously, growing old with just a meager pension and SS in a cutthroat market system like the US scares the living shit out of me. After you pay for your shelter (rent, mortgage or property taxes) you have to buy enough food and have heat. At least island life will allow you to pick your dinner off a tree and not have to worry about being cold if you need to supplement.

But of course, how realistic is that idea? Old, alone people also need a community near them; you can't move anywhere strange and expect acceptance and care. So chances are, most of us will be staying here, where we grew up, and hoping to eke out enough so we don't starve, don't freeze and can afford whatever drugs we need. Doesn't sound likely, does it??

[DiverDave]

123. Check out Costa Rica

Thats where I'm going, it's cheap, they like americans, and did I mention, IT'S CHEAP.

I'll be damned if I'm gonna eat dog food, or live with my kids.
A little goes along way south of the border.

[Faygo Kid]

35. My "significant other" just lost her job at 58.

Thank God I remain employed. She carried me at the start of the decade when I was unemployed for the first time in my working career. Now it's my turn.

She didn't "lose" her job, it was stolen from her by a voracious "adviser" who was hired to evaluate her association, and promptly recommended they hire her (the adviser) at a $30,000 raise over my friend, who was then fired. Most disgusting thing I have ever seen in my working career, which dates back to the mid-70s.

By the way, there were no performance issues. It was a raw power grab. We still inhabit George W. Bush's world, and this is just more evidence of it.

[juno jones]

38. My future ss hovers around $330 a month.

Taking time off to have kids and stay home secured what was already going to be dismal after years of working low wage jobs.

My mate has an unpayable student loan, I'm sure his SS will disappear into that ravening maw.

Hmmm, Amana or Whirlpool, gotta preference?

[MzNov]

40. Alan Simpson: An EXTREME foe of Social Security

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/17/alan_simpson_a_man_who_intensely_wants_to_cut_soci/

This deficit "commission" already knows the outcome, as does everyone in Wash., including the Democrats.

[laughingliberal]

60. It's very frightening to see him appointed. My heart sunk when I read the announcement

An extreme foe of SS and a moderate Democrat. Oh, joy!

[WinkyDink]

61. I've concluded Obama has a cold heart. I don't care who disagrees.

[DURHAM D]

100. i don't think he has any heart . nt

[amborin]

150. yep, just saw that; very bad news

[northernlights]

41. one thing women need to do is start banding together

find places to live with lower cost of living, rent a house jointly, with enough land for a big garden.

There are things I hate about Maine -- mostly that I'm alone here unfortunately surrounded by freeper types -- but you can rent houses with some land dirt cheap on the edges of walking villages. With a group of women sticking together, sharing overhead expenses, you can live a good rest of your life here. I'm sure there are still other places like this left. Preferably places that aren't so cold in the winter...but if this winter is any sign, that could be changing anyway. It's been warmer up here this winter than many places well to our south. And there are some very blue villages around. I took a drive up the coast right before the election. Camden Maine was very mixed. In Belfast, I didn't see a *single* McCain/Palin sign and there was a peace march going on in the village green.

[texanwitch]

43. I live with 4 other people, with room for a few more.

This was how people made it in the 30's.

A house with a yard to grow a garden, maybe have a few chickens.

People used to be able to feed themselves, not so much now.

[BrklynLiberal]

69. We need to start a "Golden Girls" movement!!!!!!!!

[texanwitch]

87. That is right.

If you have more then one bedroom, why not share.

[texanwitch]

88. That is right.

If you have more then one bedroom, why not share.

[eridani]

95. Suggested motto

Old age should rave and burn at close of day.
Do not go gentle into that good night
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[BrklynLiberal]

130. Exactly...Plaques with that embossed on them have to be over the entrances to where we live.

[JDPriestly]

102. BrklynLiberal - excellent idea.

Here is an excellent tear-jerking video on girls

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/02/02/ensler.TED.talk.girl.power/index.html?hpt=Mid

I hope all of you feel as empowered by it as I did when I watched it.

[BrklynLiberal]

131. Eve Ensler is one of my heroines........

Thanks for that link.

[Darth_Kitten]

51. I keep reading this post and then start counting my blessings...

I've got a secure job, good pay and benefits, etc, and I just feel for those who don't have that security.

When I get older, nobody is going to DARE say I'm redundant. :(

[emilyg]

59. k/r

[SlingBlade]

63. If a Nickle is being spent on war then S.S shouldn't even be

mentioned as a cost cutting messure.
But somehow the so called Left always gets around to such talk.

These ain't your daddies Democrats, Or Republicans for that matter.

[bvar22]

73. Very True.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
---President Dwight Eisenhower

The above REPUBLICAN President was waaaaay more Liberal than today's "Centrist" Democrats.
I would vote for Eisenhower over ANY "Democrat" in today's Centrist/DLC leadership.

I'm an "Old" FDR Democrat.
I don't have much use for today's "New" Democrats.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[SlingBlade]

85. "I'm an "Old" FDR Democrat", Your a dying breed my friend.

And thank you for explaining my objections much better than I could myself.

The poor always suffer at the hands of the militarist.

[nightrain]

86. agreed. New Dems are endangering all of us.

[laughingliberal]

89. +1000 nt

[Blue_Tires]

124. +1

[BrklynLiberal]

67. This is my exact situation...right now...not fun, after working for most of my life

and now having to struggle for every penny. Not 65 til June..Have not had health insurance coverage for about 5 years now. Will have medicare in a few months...don't know whether to laugh or cry

[Peregrine Took]

68. My sister in law, at age 80, had to file for bankruptcy due to medical

bills and the whole situation was due to the wrong diagnosis by her doctor, so she was screwed by the system twice.

[midnight]

74. K&R

[pruple]

75. K&R

[totodeinhere]

78. OK, I hear you, but what solution do you suggest?

Higher Social Security payments or what? After all, the pressure is on the government to cut back on Social Security, not raise it. It is very hard to change societal norms, and let's face it, in our youth oriented society, older women are not valued much. It's wrong, but that's the way it is. I have trouble coming up with a law that would address a deep seated part of our culture. How can we force men to be attracted to older women if they don't want to be? What healthy red blooded man wouldn't rather work beside a hot babe than an older woman. Is there some way to legislate against that characteristic of human nature?

[Darth_Kitten]

81. Well, maybe "older" women don't like looking at old geezers?

How can we force women to be attracted to old men?

What healthy red blooded woman wouldn't rather work beside a hot hunk than an older man?

Is there some way to legislate against that characteristic of human nature?

[totodeinhere]

107. The thread was about the problems of older women, not men. n/t

[spooky3]

91. ???? what does this have to do with their attractiveness? It's about their incomes.

One thing to help future generations of women would be to enforce more effectively the old laws and some fairly recent ones (e.g., Lily Ledbetter Act) barring unfair discrimination. Make pay secrecy rules illegal so that people could actually determine whether they were fairly paid and force orgs. to be able to explain what they do, so that they will self-correct. Pass additional needed legislation, such as some currently pending in Congress.

Enforce the laws forbidding orgs. from interfering with workers' rights to participate in unions. Encourage unions to fight for workers.

Address the continuing segregation of workers into "men's jobs" and "women's jobs." Encourage young women to choose non-traditional careers that pay more and enforce anti-discrimination lawa in employee selection. It's extremely difficult for individuals to win these suits now.

Change the tax laws to encourage orgs. to provide better retirement programs. They have largely abandoned the best programs in favor of 401ks, which are much less secure for workers than defined benefit plans.

For those currently approaching retirement and future generations: review and revise the Soc. Sec. laws to eliminate gender-based unfairness. And until employers return to providing more substantial retirement programs, maybe we do have to raise the minimum benefits under Soc. Sec.

And many more steps along those lines...

[Hello_Kitty]

101. Not only does he seem to accept the fact that men only want "hot babes" around.

But it's a given to him that men should have all the money and the power to determine who earns a living and who doesn't. It's unthinkable that women would have anything but decorative and breeding purposes to him.

[totodeinhere]

108. Where did I say that this is acceptable to me?

I specifically said that it's wrong, but that's the way our society works. Why are you accusing me of saying something I did not say?

[JDPriestly]

104. Your ideas are great for young people.

But they don't solve the problems of women over 50 to 55.

Younger women have it thousands of times easier than we did. People have forgotten what we went through in the 1950s and 60s. There is a reason that women rebelled against bras during those years.

We were rising up from corsets and girdles.

There was a reason for the women's liberation movement. Expectations of and for women prior to the 1970s were so limited, so cruelly limited.

My mother, in her 90s, was born before women were permitted to vote. So, we have come a long way.

[spooky3]

120. So what would you suggest?

[totodeinhere]

110. I was talking about one reason why I think older women have it harder in the workplace.

And one reason is that employers would prefer to hire someone attractive. Numerous studies have proven that to be the case. I didn't say it's a good thing but if it's true, why not say so?

But I do appreciate the possible solutions to the problem that you mentioned. That's what I was looking for. Too often at DU, I think that people list a complaint about something without offering any possible solutions to whatever they are complaining about.

Also, I don't understand the hostility to my OP that some people have posted here. You would think that I was agreeing that it's right to discriminate against older women. But I said no such thing. I was just saying what I think is one root cause of the problem and I was asking for solutions. So why the hostility?

[Hello_Kitty]

99. Pray tell, at what age do you think women should just off themselves? 40? 45? 36?

Do tell...

[totodeinhere]

109. What makes you think that I want older women to "off" themselves?

I reread my post and I just don't see how anything I said could be construed to mean anything like that. It seems that some people here are uncomfortable with my telling the truth about how our society works. Like it or not, as a whole our society does not value older women. That's just a fact. I didn't say I approve of that. In fact I said it's wrong. But yet somehow nevertheless you are asking me when I think that women should off themselves. That's ridiculous.

[druidity33]

112. y'know...

I'm a "healthy red blooded man", hetero, and i would absolutely rather work with an older woman than some hottie. I work in a restaurant and i can tell you, i would rather work with someone that KNOWS HOW TO DO THEIR JOB than someone that gets by on their looks.

Oh and btw, when you're working, it's not polite to ogle your coworkers...

:eyes:

[LanternWaste]

134. I imagine that depends more on the individual rather than the sex

"What healthy red blooded man wouldn't rather work beside a hot babe than an older woman...?"

I imagine that depends more on the individual rather than the sex. Many people (male and female) would rather work by and with a competent and driven co-worker regardless of sex-appeal than with a dizzy air-head who may be a fetching piece of eye-candy...

[totodeinhere]

136. Numerous studies have shown that given a choice between two equally qualified applicants,

more often than not it's the younger more attractive one who is hired. I'm not saying it's right but in the real world that's the way it often is. And by the way, not all younger attractive workers are "dizzy air-heads" as you put it just as not all older workers are not dizzy air-heads. To suggest otherwise is reverse ageism.

[LanternWaste]

137. I imagine I'm not the only supervisor...

The individuals I hire for my department are certainly not hired for their looks but rather for their competance, regardless of what numerous studies have said about every red-blooded American male worker. I imagine I'm not the only supervisor who hires for competence rather than the irrelevant.

"To suggest otherwise is reverse ageism..."
Read for context, and then apply contextual inference is my only suggestion. :shrug:

[Beacool]

80. Great title, but no 55 year old woman is old.

Neither is a man, for that matter.

:D


As for the article, it's damn depressing.

:(

[eridani]

94. The ;insurance company shitstains don't agree n/t

[Beacool]

125. Well, that's part of what makes them "shitstains".

x(

[tonysam]

126. Employers do. They find them too expensive. n/t

[Mari333]

82. I know plenty of them too. nt

[Hissyspit]

84. It's their fault for not getting rich.

by exploiting every human being they had a chance to (or being born into it).

:sarcasm: of course.

[defendandprotect]

90. What else would Simpson want to do -- ??? GOP wet dream . . .

and what they've also wanted to do for decades re Social Security is disconnect

women from their husband's earnings!!!

[lumpy]

116. One thing to bear in mind ; Inflation is a huge factor in retirement

figures. SS retirement benefits might have been adequate if current costs were the same as they were 65 years ago.

[Habibi]

122. Older women sharing housing

*is* a trend. Here's just one article about it: http://www.aarpmagazine.org/lifestyle/the_new_housemates.html

[uponit7771]

140. wow

[dysfunctional press]

141. roommates.

there's going to be a lot more co-habitation and communal living by people of all ages in the coming years.

[earth mom]

144. A friend of mine that is almost 50 just went back to school for the 3rd time.

She can't get work as a teacher and decided to get herself a technical trade job that she could actually get a job at. Her husband has a good job, but she is worried that if something ever happens to her husband or his job, she would need a job stat.

This same friend asked me what I would do if anything ever happened to my husband and I said I would just kick my little ebay selling into 5th gear even though there are zero benefits or health care and I'll have to keep my fingers crossed that I don't get sick!

This is a very interesting thread and I realized that most of my friends are either teachers, nurses or own their own businesses. Which (sort of) makes me think that it really is a mans world even though NONE of my friends or I would ever agree, lol!

[SoCalDem]

149. I'm taking mine as soon as I turn 62..and it will only be $782.00

but I also have a piddly little pension of $366.05. My husband's SS is significantly higher, so taking mine early is the best idea for us.. If he dies before I do, I would claim his..and if I died before him, he would certainly not claim mine over his.. The extra $1K a month while he's still working will pay down our house so we will be mortgage free before he retires in 4.5 years. I will not be eligible for medicare until then ..


Without a mortgage payment, we should be in good shape.