Would inexpensive Valium or related drugs prevented Cho's murders?

[Cetacea]

Those suffering from mental illness are almost always told that they will have to take medications for the rest of their lives. Yet some of the safest and most affective drugs for panic disorder, insomnia, ADD,
anxiety, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and even schizophrenia are often denied one of the safest and cheapest class of drugs on the market, those of the benzodiazapam class, which include xanax, valium, and Klonopin. This class of drugs can be addictive, but new evidence is emerging that the more expensive SSRI drugs often produce a horrible withdrawal period, sometimes lasting , months, and have been linked to suicides and homicides. They can be heavily sedative while at the same time have a "zombifying affect on it's victims.
Meanwhile, more and more people are being given dangerous anti-psychotics such as Zyprexa, already linked to intense weight gain, heart attacks, and diabetes.
The 'benzo' family has been demonized in the interest of huge corporate profits, and at the expensive of the mentally ill, many who are debiltated from the very drug(s) that are supposedly helping them. It is intersting to note that one of the side effects of anti-psychotic drugs is, ironically enough, psychosis.

The Waxman cometh: Henry Waxman is already holding investigations into Lily, the firm that has brought us an equally controversial drug, Prozac.

Link: http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/00805/zyprexa-capitol-hill.html

Interesting that the real victims of this criminal behavior are people suffering from mental illness, and who generally remain silent out of fear of retribution, ie, involuntary commitment, shock therapy, etc...

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Perhaps. But it is left unaddressed is his history of being mocked and ignored

by people he wished could have engaged with. I believe part of his contempt for the "rich" kids was his wish to socialize with them and to become a part of their group.

Medication only takes you so far. If teachers had reported to the parents, to counselors, and/or to administration throughout the years, maybe also, Virginia Tech never would have happened. Who knows what would have happened had Cho be referred to a speech therapist or a special teacher became a mentor to him.

It seems that he was left alone too much of the time and became not only lonely but also a target. Rhetorically speaking, how many of us could (or would) tolerate such an existence?

[Cetacea]

4. Good points that support my arguement,

The cheaper drugs that run out their patents and inhibit main-stream Americas medicine chest are tried and proven.
I believe that non-compliance boils down to a simple fact. The people who are coerced into taking them often feel worse and now face diabetes and almost always a huge amount of weight gain, increased risk of stroke, heart attack, etc...

[robcon]

2. This is simplistic garbage.

It's trying medications to see if they help, and ACTUALLY TAKING THEM IF THEY WORK, that is the problem. Mentally ill people can't be forced to take their medications, assuming they work.

[Cetacea]

3. You are assuming an awful lot

Because if they worked so well, there would be a lot less mentally ill people around. There is a good reason for non-complaince, and that is simply that many of these drugs simply make the patient even more miserable.

The drugs I cited in the OP actually work.

on edit: You are unaware of how many people are forcibly drugged, shocked, etc... due to non-compliance issues.

[robcon]

5. Again, simplistic garbage.

You wrote: "The drugs I cited in the OP actually work."

That is the most unscientific thing you could say, Artiechoke.

With mental health medications, some things work for some people, and others do no good for some people. It's very individualistic.

As for taking them, there is no doubt that mentally ill people often do not take medications that are very effective. As a son of a paranoid schizophrenic, I am very aware that my mother was extremely unhappy hearing her voices, but she STILL wouldn't take her medications.

There is no correlation, in many cases, between having medicines that work, and taking them, for mentally ill people. They are mentally ill, and that means that their reality and feelings are distorted.

[Cetacea]

7. Yah, I have expeience in this area too,

And again I say, why would a person STOP taking a drug that made them feel better? Oh right! Because they are mentally ill!!! But wait, they aren't really in control, so ignore their compaints. Keep supporting Big pharma and the lies they put out.

You miss the point in your diss mode. I am not speaking out against medications. I am calling attention to the myths about so-called anti-psychotics and non-compliance.

The other little dirty secret is that Opiates (again very inexpensive) have been known to bring about rapid relief of severe depression and agitated states. Psychiatry's "golden era" was when opiates where the treatment of choice.

[Cetacea]

9. your garbage is my gold

You said " I am very aware that my mother was extremely unhappy hearing her voices, but she STILL wouldn't take her medications."

I say, what does that say about the effectiveness of the medication?
Oh, that's right. She is a schizophrenic and doesn't know what feels good and what doesn't...Not.

You say:
"There is no correlation, in many cases, between having medicines that work, and taking them, for mentally ill people. They are mentally ill, and that means that their reality and feelings are distorted."

I say, once again, that the mentally ill are capable of knowing what makes them feel better and what doesn't. Sorry to explode your myths here.

[robcon]

11. I think the mentally ill know EXACTLY what makes them feel better.

And that is why they don't take medicines that "work."

You really are on a mission to make medical decisions on mentally ill people simplistic... There's "works," and there's "doesn't work."

Such a simple little world you live in. All you have to look at is Big Pharma/no Big Pharma, and your medication regimen is determined. Sucks to be you.

[Cetacea]

15. Why the insults?

Seriously?
Is this high school?
(apologies to you if you are in high school, and good luck if you are!)

[HughMoran]

6. I agree

and these arguments are pointless as no two people seem to handle a given drug the same so making generalized statements is pointless as you are implying. I personally can vouch for the varying effectiveness of various drugs on me versus other family and friends. I will not generally participate in this sort of speculation as it is 90% pointless...

[Cetacea]

8. well, then use the ignore button

If you have no reason to contribute anything to this OP, why state it?
Just ignore it.
And you are ignoring the facts that are coming out about Zyprexa and it being a factor in atrocious amounts of weight gain and diabetes, stroke, etc...

[HughMoran]

10. I can disagree by agreeing with another poster

Sorry that gets under your skin. I am against promoting ideas that I believe are poorly thought out and I said so.

[Cetacea]

13. Of couse you are entitled to your opinion!

And you are entitled to agree with the other poster's uneducated conclusion that my points are "Useless Garbage".
Not exactly polite words to encourage a healthy and civil debate.

[ShortnFiery]

12. The title of this thread shows that you are not educated in the area of psychotropic medicine.

Albeit I do not claim to be an authority, you do NOT (see outrageous mal-practice) give anti-anxiety medications such as "Valium" to those diagnosed with Clinical Depression. :thumbsdown: Further, many helpful antidepressants/antipsychotics and mood stabilizers (for bi-polar depression) are available in generic form.

Anti-anxiety medications such as your 'benzos' :eyes: (benzodiazepines) are to be monitored closely and only used short term, i.e., no one seemingly has control over hollywood psychiatry. These highly addictive anti-anxiety medications have a DEPRESSIVE effect. Giving these to depressives may very well be their "kiss of death." It's like depressives self medicating with alcohol, i.e., also causes an overall depressive physiological effect.

I can't force myself to continue much further because your grasp of this subject is so superficial and your bias so profound, I fear that my best efforts can NOT change such "an attitude."

BTW 'benzo' family? Cute but dismissive of the highly dangerous nature of these short term medications. :thumbsdown:

[Cetacea]

14. Your subject line dissproves your expertise

Having lived through Clinical depression I can tell you that many GOOD psychiatrists will often augment SSRIS with anti-anxiety drugs such as Xanax, which is also know to have an anti-depressant effect.

You mentioned monitering. If any drugs should be monitored it is the anti-pschotics like Zyprexa!
Did you even read teh Boston Globe article?

Again, I know that many psychiatrists do not take regular blood tests of those on anti-psychotics. Why bother? They are not human. (Not)

[shadowknows69]

16. Live test subject here!

They've got me on Lexapro with a Klonopin chaser. I did the prozac thing about 13 years ago. I find lexapro similar, which worries me, particularly getting off them. Anti anxiety pills have always worked pretty well for me. Makes me kind of useless an dopey, but a happy kind of dopey.

[Cetacea]

18. Yes, withdrawal problems from SSRI's, another dirty secret

And again, Lily pharma and others have kept this very quiet.
If you feel a bit dopey on the conmo, you might want to talk to your doc.
Thanks for your reply!
The real experts are those who have lived through it and/or are living through it.

[Cetacea]

17. I guess Waxman is an idiot too. Sorry.

Arse. Your knowlege comes from textbooks and msm articles. You know nothing of current trends and the politics of mental health and big pharmas role in it.

[ShortnFiery]

24. It's a dangerous game and many psychiatrists don't choose to augment with xanax.

I guess we'll have to wait for the next SLEW of lawsuits.

BTW my knowledge comes from enduring recurrent, severe depressions for the past decade. My psychiatrists wouldn't come CLOSE to prescribing me ANY anti-anxiety medications as it risks the total fall into the abyss.

Further, it may tempt your genius, but I also have earned a masters degree in Physiological Psychology.

But don't let the facts stop you. :eyes:

Xanax may be touted from complementing everything from alcoholism to depression, but I caution you, and many psychiatrists KNOW that if a person is *severely depressed*, IT IS POISON.

[Cetacea]

26. thank you for complimenting my genius.

And I congratulate you on obtaining your masters degree. I won't roll my eyes here, it's just plain rude.

You have learned the various "talking Points" about meds. I have the luxury of experimentation and having excellent research facilities at my disposal.

We can each bend the facts and create our own realities, just like Bushco does.
I do suggets you leave the Ivory Towers though and visit some of the medication forums if you want to get your finger on the pulse of what's going on with real people rather that statistics.

And I would ask you to explore read the Globe article. Zyprexa is mostly given to poor people through the State Medicaid clinics.

[ShortnFiery]

28. OMG, your opinion is seriously deluded. :(

Here ya go: I've had to undergo ECT because a Psychiatrist mis-diagnosed my severe depression and textbook ADHD as "Manic Depression." Thanks to him hopping me up on Xanax and mood stabilizers I was completely catatonic. And anyone knowing me here also knows, that's a big LEAP. :grr:

I had to endure 8 rounds of ECT and the QUALITY psychiatrists I have enjoyed since then and after a battery of tests CONCUR that you don't give anti-anxiety medications to severely depressed patients.

Now, maybe my Psychiatrists are NOT on the cutting-edge of your genius, but it makes sense to me as I've never been catatonically depressed since since I've been on Paxil, Wellbutrin and Concerta. I have my life back thanks to these thoughtful psychiatrists.

I realize that I've emotionally "gutted myself" above, but if my experience can help anyone else to avoid the suffering that I have endured, it was worth it.

Bottom Line: Forge a friendship and partnership with your Psychiatrist and his/her team of nurses and assistants.

I'm out of here and yeah, I bow to your genius. :eyes:

[Cetacea]

30. This isn't about ANXIETY! . jeez.

I mentioned anxiety as one possibilty. There is a serious reading comprension problem here. The problem is ZYPREXA and why WAXMAN is investigating Lily. I asked the question in my OP if Cho would benefited from a short treatment of valium or xanax which may have helped his social anxiety and general stress, and it would have done so without him having to wait weeks for it to take affect.

Also, you said "Here ya go: I've had to undergo ECT because a Psychiatrist mis-diagnosed my severe depression and textbook ADHD as "Manic Depression." Thanks to him hopping me up on Xanax and mood stabilizers I was completely catatonic..."

Couldn't have been from the shock treatments, could it ? Just asking.

[ShortnFiery]

32. "Couldn't have been from the shock treatments, could it ? Just asking."

How lovely. :eyes:

Ladies and gentlemen of this thread, I rest my case. <exit stage "Responsible Treatment Options" Left>

[ShortnFiery]

20. You're Psychiatrist must have monitored you closely because he was running a BIG risk. Especially..

if your depression was *severe?* You must have been monitored very closely because it's contraindicated to give Xanax or Valium for SEVERE depression. :(

Your bias is profound and your advice dangerous.

IMO, it is irresponsible of you to generalize your personal experience with Clinical Depression to the GENERAL PUBLIC as *each patient* is unique.

IMO, any psychiatrist worth his/her degree will admit that anti-anxiety medications run THE RISK of sending a depressive ... INTO A DEEPER DEPRESSION because of their overall depressive effect.

For short term Panic Attack and Generalized Anxiety Disorder treatments, the above anti-anxiety medications may "open the door" to facing one's fears and adapting.

The one area I can empathize with you is the "withdrawal symptoms" of some anti-depressive that was NOT brought out in the original clinical research. For that, those patients have my complete empathy. A good psychiatrist needs to slowly wean these patients off of these anti-depressants if their depression is NOT recurrent in nature.

You may not respect anti-depressives but they do NOT alter consciousness and have a true "antidepressive" effect. Anti-anxiety medications run THE RISK of sending a depressive ... INTO A DEEPER DEPRESSION because of their overall depressive effect.

Otherwise, and with true respect, the "panacea argument" with regard to anti-anxiety medications is just pure BUNK.

My final comment would be for anyone who seeks treatment to consider finding a psychiatrist (may not be the first one or two) who you TRUST and is willing to work WITH YOU. Also he/she should arrange to have his/her staff closely monitor your reaction to any medications prescribed. The foregoing is the ONLY RESPONSIBLE advice that we can give the general public. :shrug:

[Cetacea]

23. I was not giving medical advice..

Just making observations and asking questions based on objective and subjective experience as well as a plethora of studies, many which do not make into the Main stream press. and of course the Boston Globe article as well as others.

But more importantly here you have not addressed the whole Zyprexa issue, and my apologies to you if you haven't read the Boston Globe report.

You are also denying (it seems) that many ill people are more often than not told that they will have to take medications for the rest of their lives, which imo renders the "addiction" problem" a bit moot.

[ShortnFiery]

25. I'm sorry,

I'm only a person who's earned a masters in the field and who's suffered from recurrent severe depressions for over a decade. I must bow to your genius. :eyes:

Go forth because I'm losing my patience with well intentioned, but deluded people such as yourself.

Anyway, I have faith that anyone reading this thread will discern who is speaking with sincerity ... who is responsible and thoughtful about psychiatric treatment.

[Cetacea]

27. Interesting.

You admit to having a psychosis and you refer to a fellow suffer as "delusional" in an insulting way. Sorry, but you are not my type of democratic, or, someone who'd I'd trust my secrets to. You have too much "compassion".

[ShortnFiery]

29. OMG, you don't even have the right terminology, I have a Disorder not a Psychosis.

OMG, your advice is just one big side show. :wow:

Excuse me. :rofl:

[Cetacea]

31. LOL

You are a very funny mental Health graduate!
I guess your terrible depression wasn't of the psychotic type.

Buh-bye!

[undeterred]

19. There are certain personality disorders

where the person almost never voluntarily seeks treatment- if someone has an antisocial personality they don't trust authority figures so they aren't going to get into therapy and stay there.

If someone is merely depressed or has a dependent personality, they are likely to seek out therapy and benefit from it.

It doesn't sound like Cho was able to establish relationships with anyone. It sounds like he was in a lot of pain and he was paranoid, on top of the fact that people really did make fun of him. His was probably a worst case scenario, and the drugs were just a little part of a huge problem.

[fishnfla]

21. The guy was buying automatic weapons and hiring strippers!!

I'm sure he could spring for a quarter ounce of cripy on a college campus and mellow his harsh

[Atman]

22. NOTHING would have. There are 300,000,000 people in this country.

One snapped. It is tragic. But it is unrealistic to think we can do anything to stop an occasional bad seed intent on harming others from slipping through the cracks -- either the mental health system cracks, the gun law cracks, whatever. It's just not possible to stop every bad thing.

.

[Dorian Gray]

33. I don't know

I have a friend who suffers from Bi Polar disorder, and she abuses her Klonopin prescription that her therapist prescribes for her. It doesn't seem to help her much, except to put her to sleep when she takes six every night.