Utah Bill Criminalizes Miscarriage

[checks-n-balances]

Sunday, February 21, 2010
Utah Bill Criminalizes Miscarriage
by Rachel Larris

http://www.thepoliticalcarnival.net/2010/02/utah-bill-criminalizes-miscarriage.html

A bill passed by the Utah House and Senate this week and waiting for the governor's signature, will make it a crime for a woman to have a miscarriage, and make induced abortion a crime in some instances.

(snip)

In addition to criminalizing an intentional attempt to induce a miscarriage or abortion, the bill also creates a standard that could make women legally responsible for miscarriages caused by "reckless" behavior.

Using the legal standard of "reckless behavior" all a district attorney needs to show is that a woman behaved in a manner that is thought to cause miscarriage, even if she didn't intend to lose the pregnancy. Drink too much alcohol and have a miscarriage? Under the new law such actions could be cause for prosecution...

Such a standard could even make falling down stairs a prosecutable event, such as the recent case in Iowa where a pregnant woman who fell down the stairs at her home was arrested under the suspicion she was trying to terminate her pregnancy.

(snip)

Paltrow says this bill puts a lie to the idea that the pro-life movement cares about women.

"For all these years the anti-choice movement has said ‘we want to outlaw abortion, not put women in jail, but what this law says is ‘no, we really want to put women in jail.'"

OK. So a woman goes through the trauma of having a miscarriage, then could be arrested for it? What am I missing here?

More at
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/02/19/utah-passes-bill-that-charges-women-for-illegal-abortion-or-miscarriage

[Odin2005]

1. WTF!?!

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I second that comment

WTF is right.

[Ken Burch]

60. WTF times TEN MILLION!

What's the matter with those people?

[gmoney]

2. A malfunctioning clown car will NOT be tolerated!

We are, after all, here only to procreate.

[nightrain]

3. reminds me of Monty Python's "Every Sperm is Sacred".

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. That is psychotic

My parents put off children until later in life and freakishly so for the 1970's and had a great deal of difficulty bringing me and my brother into the world, she miscarried once before I was born and twice more before my brother was born and once further after my brother was born before the doctor told them to knock it off.

Is that reckless?

[Maru Kitteh]

29. Maternal age may not have been the reason. Many women of all ages miscarry.

I miscarried when I was 20 years old. My mom had 3.

[cutlassmama]

31. Right. I had one in my 20's. Was devastated. I did nothing to cause it

and to think that I could have been indicted over it is insane.

[Arkansas Granny]

40. That's right. I had two miscarriages when I was in my early 20's.

No reason for them to happen. I was in overall excellent health with no drug or alcohol use. Miscarriages, or spontaneous abortions, happen way more often than most people are aware of.

[babydollhead]

42. I had a miscarriage before any of my kids were born

The doctor said that the body gets rid of "the products of conception" when it is not growing in a way conducive to life. When I was pregnant the 2nd time, I was nervous. Then I read in a pregnancy book from 1952," You cannot shake a good seed." The miscarriage happened early, if I was not trying to get pregnant, I would have just thought that I was having a late, heavy, period. What are you going to do if the cells aren't dividing and growing perfectly and your body wants it out, you can't do anything, it comes out.

[spanone]

6. criminalize cancer while you're at it...

[ck4829]

7. I think Bart Simpson said it best...

"Utah? Home of America's most powerful weirdoes!"

[winyanstaz]

8. K & R......

Mormons don't care about women...

or gays....

or people of color.

I was baptized in the Mormon church as a child and I know exactly what went on there.

My sisters went to support groups later in life with the children of these people....and you don't want to know some of the terrible things these men did and do to their female folk and family members.

At least that church I went to anyways....

I left the church at age 14 because they made a man cry who was always kind to us children......He got up in front of the congragation and was weeping and I heard him say he was upset because he was still an alter boy after about ten years of working hard for the church.

I found out by listening to the grownups after the services that it was because they thought he "MIGHT" have had some "colored-blood" in him.

Yes they say they now have changed their rules....

But walk into most any Mormon church and it will be ...by far and away..all white.

[newspeak]

43. Yes, I lived in Utah for over five years.

I had women friends who were generational Mormons who told stories of being molested. My molesting step-father and the whole damn incestuous family (I heard years later) converted to Mormonism.

I'm not saying all families, because some of my hubby's aunts and uncles are Mormon-and very good people, but I did have quite a few friends who told me childhood horror stories.

And it seems that the main focus is on procreating. I met women who only lived through their children. This one woman kept talking about her sons-how they were going on a mission, their accomplishments-then, I asked her if she had any daughters-she had two. Didn't even mention the daughters-it seemed that their value was minute compared to the value of her sons.

For the love of daughters', I never understood how anyone could join a religion that values a woman only as a brood mare.

[Ken Burch]

61. My grandfather, in the 1920's quit the Mormon Church because he said

he didn't want to be part of a "men-only" church.

They made him go through an excommunication ceremony in which they told him he wouldn't be able to see his wife(my grandmother) in heaven.

Grandpa Reuben, I never met you, but you were right. And I'm proud of you for the courage you showed then.

[checks-n-balances]

9. Maybe they're looking to increase their female prison population...

and this is just one way to do it.

Only one person in the state can prevent this from becoming law: the governor.

Can someone please point to exactly what it was that made people like this lose all manner of common sense, compassion and sanity...that is, if they had it to begin with?

[defendandprotect]

10. Male-supremacist religion is psychotic -- !!! And Utah is heavily infested . ..!!!

[Kitty Herder]

11. Goddamn.

I hate this state sometimes.

I'm somewhat familiar with the case that spurred the creation of this bill. What that case indicated to me was that we need to make abortion more available and more affordable so that young women aren't so desperate that they're willing to pay some thug to beat them in an attempt to abort the baby.

[me b zola]

20. To be fair to your state, it's not just Utah

IIRC, there is another state that is doing something similar. It is all a part of the conservative agenda and the war against women. I'm at my wits end living in a nation where people worship the ignorant and hateful. I live in Oregon where the majority of us are progressive, yet I feel the sting of unthinking people fighting against our rights. :hug:

[Ken Burch]

62. What's the other state? We need to bust THEM on this, too!

n/t.

[MadMaddie]

12. I am more than sure they didn't take into acount that some

women do have trouble carrying a fetus to full term so what then? All a prosecuting attorney has to just make a claim.

So the party that claims to want government out of their lives votes to interfere in womens lives and their choices.

[katandmoon]

13. It's a good thing AK didn't have this law when Palin "gave birth" to Trig

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. Why is that?

[katandmoon]

41. You've not heard of her wild ride from TX to AK after her water broke?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

87. How would this law have affected her?

[OHdem10]

14. Recently Tweety interviewed Conservative Legislator from NY(Upstate)

who admitted that if you legally prohibit Abortion, then
the Female getting the abortion and the Dr. involved would
have broken the law. After much struggling Tweety made
him admit they would have to be punished.

Likewise a Priest, I believe he was from House Rep. Kennedy's
state, who after what seemed like pulling eye teeth, Chris
made him admit: If there is a law, people break it, punishment
is required.

Common Sense: Why pass a law if you do not plan to enforce
it from the beginning???

Yes, People will be punished. Is anyone surprised??

[niyad]

15. and the woman hating goes on, unabated, in the patriarchal madhouse that is mormon utah.

how many other states will follow suit? is PP planning on filing a suit against this BS?

a great big FU to the Utah legislature. time to boycott if this actually goes through, I think.

[alp227]

16. Pro-life? My @$$!

Is this what those religious conservatives mean when they keep demanding "respect for human life"? Prosecuting a woman just because of some accidental circumstance? What are they gonna plan next, laws criminalizing stillbirth?

And of course drinking while pregnant is a bad bad bad bad bad unhealthy thing to do. I don't know if that's really a crime yet.

:puke:

[noamnety]

17. Hypothetical scenario

Single mom has no other means of support. She has a high risk pregnancy. The doctor advises bed rest, which she can't afford because she will lose her only source of income.

Become homeless while pregnant? Or go to jail? Such a fine choice.

[niyad]

19. wasn't there a case just a few weeks ago (and widely covered here on DU), where a doc and hospital

got a court order to keep a woman on bed rest, AND to "do whatever procedures deemed necessary" to prevent a miscarriage? down in florida, if I remember correctly.

well, women are only brood mares anyway, mere property, so they can be treated as disposable.

[fishwax]

18. revolting n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

21. An L & D nurse once told me about women taking a big dose of cocaine to cause a misscarriage.

I was skeptical, at least of the frequency that she said it happened.

[sakabatou]

22. *facebludgeon*

[ProgressOnTheMove]

24. I think we can safely say Utah isn't moving to the blue column any time soon. Too weird ...

any woman should just leave that state.

[burrowowl]

25. My Mother had 5 children and 2 miscarriages

She was RH negative.
Mormons are assholes and and many zygotes abort themselves without anyone noticing it. \
Their hateful ignorance just boggles the mind!

[readmoreoften]

63. Wow TWO miscarriages. In Utah, you get life for that these days...

So that's what the pro-life movement's all about. Pro life-in-prison.

[Zoeisright]

26. I KNEW it - they're going to make women's wombs crime scenes!

Finally those asshole might be exposed for what they are - misogynistic voyeurs.

[Wizard777]

32. It'll be interesting to see where they put the crime scene tape.

:blush:

[PassingFair]

39. If the Gov. signs this....time to send used tampons to the Capitol.

I think this kind of crap was averted in Virginia
when women threatened to do just that after a
mandatory miscarriage reporting law was proposed.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/6/194434/1328

They threatened to arrest women who sent blood
through the mail, so some women dipped tampons
in red paint and sent them.

[Lorien]

27. The Talibornagains get bolder and more insane

we have to put a stop to their insanity NOW!

[D23MIURG23]

28. I think we need a law criminalizing stupid.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Of COURSE they want to put women in jail.

Well, duh.

[Wizard777]

33. Shouldn't women have an Equal Right to go to jail over reproductive issues?

They not only put men in jail. They hold them for ransom payments.

[LeftyMom]

50. Oh Christ.

If anybody needs evidence that MRAs are anti-woman, see above.

[Warren DeMontague]

51. That comment is so full of head-scratching what-the-fuck, I don't even know where to begin.

:crazy:

[Warren DeMontague]

52. You honestly think that child support is a "ransom payment"?

Do the world a favor. Don't have kids.

Better yet, get a vasectomy.

[BuelahWitch]

83. Well, a man DOES have a part in making that baby

Or did you forget that part?

[marmar]

34. Good f**king grief......Medieval madness.

nt

[14thColony]

35. The Handmaid's Tale

...the prequel. Coming to a legislature near you.

[Tailormyst]

36. This is shocking beyond words.

[pleah]

37. OMFG!

k&r

[CBGLuthier]

38. It's Utah. Are they even part of this country any more?

Why would anyone in their right mind want to live in Utah? Or even step foot in the state?

[ensho]

46. kick

nt

[Bette Noir]

78. Unique and stunning desert landscape.

I try to vacation there at least once every couple of years.

But, yeah, I could never live there. Not unless I imported a whole town full of Californians.

[Catbird]

44. Crime scene belts

Every woman who has had a miscarriage should start wearing a crime scene belt. Or maybe crime scene panties!

I had at least three.

[druidity33]

58. that's actually not a bad idea...

it would make for an interesting protest visual, anyway. Maybe Crime Scene sashes too...


:shrug:

[npk]

45. Goodbye America. It was so nice to have known you.

To be free of tyranny was so yesterday anyway.

[DevonRex]

47. Thank you for sharing this excellent explanation of the bill and

what could result from it.

[Unvanguard]

48. This is blatantly unconstitutional and flagrantly unjust. It needs a court challenge, ASAP. n/t

[pipi_k]

49. I just wonder how long it will be before the women who collaborate

with men to take away a woman's rights to her own body will stand up and refuse to take this shit.

I can't even say that men are the enemy here. They don't understand what it's like to be a woman, though God knows, there are men who DO stand up for women's rights.

The real enemy here, as far as I'm concerned, are the women who want to sabotage their own gender by collaborating with the RW crazy men who want to take their rights away.

So what's it gonna take? Like the article said, engage in risky behavior, have a miscarriage, be charged with a crime...even if the behavior itself didn't directly CAUSE the miscarriage...


When will women who enable this shit ever wake up and stop sabotaging themselves and their "sisters"???

[progressoid]

53. Wow, this is just stunning.

:wow:

[Liberal_in_LA]

54. Women need to stop being stupid and vote these a**holes out of office

[femrap]

55. May these vile

lawmakers go blind on viagra.

[uppityperson]

56. Time to start sending them used menstrual pads, "just in case" they want to check to make sure

or some such.

[readmoreoften]

64. Next up? Sexually active women forced on vitamins to keep their wombs healthy *just in case*

Never know! Of course I'd know, because I'm gay. But they're probably not hearin' that...

[saracat]

57. I notified my Planned paenthood pR person about this and was going to call the dems when I realized

they wouldn't care! They alredy sneered at me for questioning why we are running pro-life candidates in our local races. They think as long as we WIN, it is fine.WINNING is everything. But as women, we have to ask, what are we winning?

[MilesColtrane]

59. Vile

[LiberalFighter]

65. These people need to be locked up. And the voters that voted for them too.

[LiberalFighter]

66. How many women that support this can be prosecuted if it passes?

If women married to these assholes don't support this they need to stand up to their husbands.

[perdita9]

67. UT must be run by men

Miscarriages occur in over 50% of all pregnancies, most before the woman realizes she's pregnant. 20% of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage.

This bill is beyond stupid.

[KamaAina]

68. So I suppose Mom would be guilty of a misdemeanor

She had what appeared to be a classic miscarriage. "Don't worry, Mrs. KamaAina," they told her, "you can have plenty of other children" -- then they found out she was still pregnant, with me! We believe she miscarried a twin. So at least she delivered one baby. Does that count as a mitigating circumstance? :sarcasm:

[KonaKane]

69. The Utah Legislature is the clown car of the nations state houses.

Believe me, I lived there for many years. We used to get lawn chairs and popcorn everytime they were in session, eagerly awaiting the lunacy that would come from the result of a congressional session there.

As ridiculous as this is, it is TYPICAL for Utah.

[KamaAina]

70. It is not a violation of Godwin's Law to point out

that a similar law, complete with inspections by "pregnancy police", was enforced in Nazi Germany.

[glinda]

71. oh for pete's f@$#^%@*# sake.

[Utopian Leftist]

72. The REAL Repuke agenda is revealed:

Put everyone in prison. Then only those who can afford the very best lawyers will be able to vote.

[fascisthunter]

73. The Conservative(Bigot) Movement

welcome back to the Dark Ages.... durrrrrrrr.

[LadyHawkAZ]

74. This is what it's about...

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_14312259

"Making law based on one unfortunate incident is knee-jerk governing. That's what Rep. Carl Wimmer, R-Herriman, is trying to do with his House Bill 12, which allows the state to prosecute a woman for criminal homicide if she causes her own miscarriage.

Last year a 17-year-old girl in Vernal who became pregnant paid someone to beat her in a sad and misguided attempt to cause a miscarriage. But Wimmer doesn't see this isolated incident as a heartrending situation in which a teenager was so desperate and pathetically uninformed that she risked her own life to end her pregnancy instead of seeking a legal abortion.

On the contrary, Wimmer only sees a potential opportunity to prosecute a young girl for making a horrific decision. In this case, it was an opportunity lost because of what he sees as a "loophole" in the law. But Wimmer also sees a chance to once again send his oft-repeated message that, since the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld abortion as a woman's right, Utah legislators will do everything they can to punish women for making that choice. While we don't condone ending a pregnancy except by safe and legal means, this legislation is an outgrowth of that heartless, punitive attitude."

Like the op-ed says, it was a knee-jerk reaction to one incident. I doubt it's going to last through the inevitable court challenge, and good riddance to it.

[badgerpup]

75. ....and back to the Dark Ages we go!

...When a woman could be killed for the crime of miscarriage, since she'd 'killed' her innocent unborn by losing it.

Seems that men really hate/resent/fear women...especially men in power.

Not all men, and not all women...but enough to make a difference. :banghead:


I'm not talking gay vs. straight...in fact most of the gay guys I know genuinely like women more than many of the straight guys with whom I'm acquainted.

[KonaKane]

82. Utah never really left them

just to be fair. My parents used to have a bumper sticker on their car that said "Eat, Drink and Be Merry - For Tomorrow You May Be In Utah!"

[caraher]

76. OK, so what's this Iowa thing all about...

Such a standard could even make falling down stairs a prosecutable event, such as the recent case in Iowa where a pregnant woman who fell down the stairs at her home was arrested under the suspicion she was trying to terminate her pregnancy.

On what charge could anyone be arrested even if she were trying to terminate her pregnancy by such extreme measures?

In cases where someone is so desperate that she's flinging herself down staircases... it's hard to see the "pro-life" argument against legal abortion. That it's better to have abortion by staircase than abortion by doctors? That she might be carrying the next Tim Tebow and should be locked down until she delivers for the sake of football?

[Kip Humphrey]

77. Dare I say... This is a miscarriage of justice!

[Shell Beau]

79. Well since I have had 2 miscarriages and 2 ectopics,

I should spend life in prison at this rate.WTF? This is so disgusting. Fuck that.

[Beartracks]

80. What a convenient way to start criminalizing "undesirable" behavior. n/t

[DrZeeLit]

81. And we'd like you barefoot with that pregnancy, please.

Sheesh!

I don't know what's worse.... this or that idiotic bill in South Carolina that wants to ban US Currency.
Are these people for real?

When I am talking to someone who claims to be "pro life," I always ask, "Who would you arrest -- the woman or the doctor?"
Either answer is "wrong."
Why pile on the poor woman who had to make a horrific decision .... and if the doctor is arrested, that means the woman isn't capable of making any decision.... it's a great question.

[LittleGirl]

84. What's Next? Childless women will be sent to jail

for failing to have children. Are we going to be rounded up and sent to prison because God didn't BLESS us with children? Sheesh.

[Moonwalk]

86. Actually, yes. The next logical step is to criminalize women who use Birth Control--

Certain websites, contrary to all medical and scientific arguments, insist that birth control pills make women miscarry (abort)--let's not even go into morning after pills, which do just that IF the woman is preggers.

If this law passes than you can move on up to both outlawing morning after pills (probably already outlawed in Utah), and birth control pills. And you don't round up the women and send them to prison. The aim here is to scare them into not doing this sort of thing. You try, (as in certain countries that shall remain nameless but that, for some reason, we're fighting because we consider them backward and barbaric) to scare women into doing what you want them to do. Like don't take B.C. pills or try to terminate a pregnancy. You make them feel guilty, ashamed, criminal, in danger of being imprisoned, an outcast, etc. if they even consider not having babies.

That is the aim here. To intimidate, scare, and abuse women into submission.

[northernlights]

85. most miscarriages are the result of failed meiosis

an error is separating chromosomes properly. One egg ends up with extra chromosome; one is lacking. No different from Down's syndrome, except which chromosome is affected and whether or not the extra or missing chromosome will allow life.

So maybe they should put women in jail for producing Down's Syndrome children as well. Equally a result of failed meiosis. Bad women for having malfunctioning eggs.