Dennis K didn't help himself on Bill Maher's show last night.

[Atman]

Personally, I understood his comments. Some of them made me cringe. Not because I disagreed, but because they took some intelligence and understanding to get what he was saying. IMHO, Dennis Kucinich provided the media with plenty of juicy sound bites that will come back to bite him in the ass and cement his concocted image as an out-there lunatic. Saying he wouldn't order an assassination on OBL, for instance. He went on to explain that he was against assassination as policy, and even implied he'd let the CIA deal with that sort of thing. He made similar comments about "war," which will likely see some air time in republican ads. You really have to know his actual positions, and as usual, Maher was more concerned about making his own sound bites and jokes instead of allowing DK to explain.

Trouble is, Americans don't sit still for explanations. DK sounded as if he said he'd never take the country to war, even if we were attacked. Although that isn't what he said. He sounded as if he wants to let OBL stay on the run forever. Whether or not you believe OBL is even a real character, MOST of America is sure he was the mastermind of the attack on NYC, and a comment like that won't sit well.

Damn. I love the guy. He's brilliant. Perhaps far too brilliant to be elected by a nation of short-attention-span morans.

.

[Ilsa]

1. I know what you mean. Not so much about DK, but how

campaigns are about getting the message out in very brief messages. DK is so intelligent, and I'm not sure the adhd electorate is ready sit still for a thorough explanation of why his policies make sense.

Damn scary about the people, isn't it? And in alot of places, like Texas and other western states, we have to deal with people wanting to elect those with "tough" policies etc.

[loudsue]

58. I think Kucinich & Gravel are going to garner a LOT more support than mainstream wishes they would

They are the only ones truthfully addressing a war-weary, sound-bite weary electorate.

Gravel is better at sound bites, but both he & Kucinich are top of the line. I hope they both start getting a whole lot of money from the grass-roots.

:kick::kick::kick:

[bettyellen]

2. he joked aout Maher taking over the CIA because he's so pro assasination -he JOKED

and it was funny.
he did not imply he'd actually alow the CIA to do that "sort of thing" at all.

[Atman]

4. Stay focused.

I know what he said, and what he meant. I'm not concerned with him actually appointing Bill Maher to head the CIA because Maher is pro-assassination.

.

[bettyellen]

17. get it right next time.... i think you're characerization was off base, but that was inaccurate

completely inaccurate, and needed to be corrected before someone repeats it. No interest in whatever it is you're "focusing'on this morning, pal... You now stand corrected.
That is all. :hi:

[lonestarnot]

35. Will you please tell me

What the fuck he said. I didn't get to see it.

[Atman]

36. See post #34

.

[renie408]

10. "Forget running mate, you can be the CIA guy" ...that was the funniest line of the whole night.

I actually like DK more after last night. Maybe his appearance wouldn't play in Peoria, but who really thinks (besides DK himself) that he is a serious contender? He is the conscience of the party. His presence keeps the other candidates feet to the fire in debates, etc. Because he is a dark horse, he can say what the other candidates SHOULD be saying.

[bettyellen]

18. his quick sense of humour surprises people i think... people don;t expect it.

that's kind of why i was offended this turned into a might allow assassinations line of BS- it was his funniest line- and the OP didn't get it?
he can't be for real.

[Atman]

23. Oh, for CHRISSAKE some of you people are just bat shit crazy!

I "didn't get it?" Are you for fucking real?? OF COURSE I "got it." It was a fucking joke and it was damned funny. I laughed out loud, too! Get off your goddam high horse and stop injecting your own bullshit into what it was I was saying. STAY FOCUSED, but you couldn't...you had to veer off into personal insults. So now I'm right there with you! Feel better?

:eyes:

.

[lonestarnot]

37. Way to go there renie408. If he isn't a serious contender since his latest actions with H. Res

3.33 to impeach Cheney and does not get support for impeachment of Cheney, America has genuinely deteriorated to a point beyond recovery under the Constitution. The Constitution cannot be just ignored. What the fuck is wrong with people? Democracy as outlined in the Constitution requires that the treasonist bastard be impeached and Dennis is the only one on the stage with the fucking Constitution in his pocket and the brain in his head to get us out of this mess without the use of the corruption factor.

[Vexatious Ape]

3. I felt the same way when I watched it last night.

He came across as a pacifist. I think Maher was shocked at that as well.

[upi402]

6. ...but a pacifist who is attacking Republican criminals

He has spine I think. And I bet he'd have OBL in prison quick-fast. Afterall, OBL is a useful bogeyman to BushCo. OBL keeps the war machine runnin'!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

5. Most of the time last night, the audience did "get" and approve of what Dennis had to say.

Maher's audience is a definitely more informed than a great deal of the people in the country. Dennis did make a point that it was a National show and seemed very pleased with his own performance. He went into one of the weirdest smiles I've seen. Totatally creepy to me, and you have to realize that weird is ok with me, and sometimes I embrace it, but that smile had a disturbing edge to it.

I love what Dennis has to say, and he is a great messenger, but I do not want him as President.

[lonestarnot]

15. Audience acceptance sounds encouraging.

[countingbluecars]

7. He is the #1 search topic

On the Yahoo list today.

[Atman]

13. He certainly got an amazing reception from the audience.

They cheered and hooted and applauded for a LONG time. That was a great sign, imho, that he is taken seriously by more people than a lot of the media want to admit.

.

[cooolandrew]

47. Kucinich has been a force of nature in the past few weeks, he could have the biggest turn around...

... in political history if all goes well.

[cooolandrew]

46. WTG DENNIS. You keep sticking it to them man. You can't fight the truth.

[dave_p]

8. I know the feeling too

"Perhaps far too brilliant to be elected by a nation of short-attention-span morans"

So change the nation. Easier than grroming DK for Mr & Mrs Moran.

[peacetalksforall]

9. I think it might be easier for candidates to do WJ then it is a

Comedy Show. Especially Maher. I don't think Maher has figured out whether he wants to be a comedian or a serious political attack dog. How does a candidate or elected official try to find the middle ground with him? Some succeed. Many falter.

ps - one great thing about Kucinich last night - big smiles - he's come along way - the smiles could offset the remarks - quite good for a guy who is super-serious up at the podium - one of the things we admire - a tenacious fighter for the citizens.

[lonestarnot]

16. I love his tenacity!

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[magnolia]

11. DK is the only candidate....

...who actually says what he believes and doesn't try to water it down or conform to what he thinks people want to hear. The only way he stands a chance at winning the nomination is if there is a radical shift in the masses. The public needs to evolve up to his level...NOT DK coming down to our neanderthal level!!

All the other candidates are expert at compromising their beliefs and they sway with the wind of public opinion. Can you please leave the one and only candidate who won't compromise alone!!!!

BTW...I agree with him 100%. Assassination should not be a policy. And, the concept of war is no longer a workable solution to problems.

The arguement for war is always about WWII...even though it is a completely different time. Turn it around...if we had the technology of today in 1941 we would have known about the holocaust much sooner, probably watched it on YouTube, and could have nipped it in the bud before needing to go to war. Okay, I'm simplifying. But it's the same as using the Second Amendment, which was about cannons and muskets and literally protecting your property and your herd of cattle from outlaws....using it now, in a time when most of us have never encountered an outlaw and don't own any cattle!!

You are right about one thing....it requires intelligence and complex thinking to understand DK's positions. So be it.

[youngdem]

12. Don't worry....The Repukes will never waste their money on an attack ad against him

because he has ZERO chance of winning even a primary.

He is a smart, well intended man, but he doesn't know how to achieve results, and even Dems don't think he has enough gravitas to actually have a leadership position in the party.

Plus, his positions don't stand up to criticism.

For example, what in the hell does he mean by saying he is against assassination as a policy but he would let the CIA do it? Does he not realize that as president he would be over the CIA, or does he view the CIA as an extra-legal organism outside of the influence of the president?

Or his silly idea for the Dept of Peace. What in the hell is the Dept of State for then, Denny? He wants to fix what is a leadership problem with a structural change.

And he isn't brilliant. He is smart. Brilliant would be getting an appreciable number of people to back you and accomplish your goals. Instead, I fear that sometimes he HURTS the cause of the issues he is backing because he comes across as silly.

Plus, when you look at his actual experience, and how he did as a leader when he was an elected chief executive (as Mayor of Cleveland), he BOMBED. Fell on his face. Couldn't get consensus to do anything and was voted out. In fact, he was immortalized in Melvin Holli's book "Best and Worst of the Big-City Leaders 1820-1993" as one of the TEN WORST mayors in American History.

And finally, Kucinich is ANTI-CHOICE. He's just an opportunistic flip-flopper who changed his position to run for President. So, he's the world's first Machiavellian Idealist, I guess. :eyes:

"He supported Bush's reinstatement of the gag rule for recipients of US family planning funds abroad. He supported the Child Custody Protection Act, which prohibits anyone but a parent from taking a teenage girl across state lines for an abortion. He voted for the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which makes it a crime, distinct from assault on a pregnant woman, to cause the injury or death of a fetus. He voted against funding research on RU-486. He voted for a ban on dilation and extraction (so-called partial-birth) abortions without a maternal health exception. He even voted against contraception coverage in health insurance plans for federal workers--a huge work force of some 2.6 million people (and yes, for many of them, Viagra is covered)."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/23/113236/176


Kucinich is the perfect example of the fact that ideas alone will get you nowhere. You have to have personal leadership skills and the gravitas to get things done by the sheer force of personality. Dennis does NOT have that.

[Atman]

20. Just to clarify, he didn't say he was in favor of CIA assassinations.

It was the inference, the sub-text beneath his actual words. I agree, as do many (most?) that foreign policy based upon assassination is a bad thing. When he said that, Maher said something to the effect that "Oh, come on! I do! We could have avoided some wars if we'd just put a cap in some guys head." To which DK said, "Okay, then I'll make you my CIA director."

He didn't explicitly say he was in favor of it as long as the CIA did it. That was just my interpretation, which is certainly arguable. And I'm well aware that he was just joking. I just felt it opened up a but of a subconscious window into his real thinking. Of course I could be very wrong about that, but again...it wasn't really the gist of my post anyway.

[bettyellen]

22. he explicitly said he was AGAINST ASSASINATION AS A POLICY, so this post's "inference" is nonsense

everyone got the joke except you, huh? .
" just felt it opened up a but of a subconscious window into his real thinking." <_so it was just a nutty idea that floated through your head, and you're pretending theres a basis for it? Nice,

[lonestarnot]

14. Damn, I don't have HBO. I think it's HBO right? Well sorry to hear this.

What a shame.

[bettyellen]

21. he actually did very well according to everyone i know....

it's not like any of us expect him to get nominated or anything... but for the venue actually, he did really well. came off funny and very smart. and no, he diddn't hint he'd allow the CIA to run amock- that was a joke that flew over the OPs head...

[Name removed]

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[lonestarnot]

33. ugh oh.

:popcorn: I better do some read'n.

[IChing]

19. Funny he got standing ovations

I agree with you Atman we need a candidate that doesn't stand for anything
and can just answer focus group questions and not really say anything in
order to not challenge anyone critical thinking skills. That way they can
appeal to everyone.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IChing]

29. "cement his concocted image as an out-there lunatic" and then you attack me

with a similar "You're as batty as betty."

I thought it was a great interview and he did fine
and he got his message out on what he stands for.
.


The Republicans will
attack no matter what.

Normally respect your posts but not this one.

Then you attacked Bettyellen on this post as someone out there

[Atman]

30. Do you know what "CONCOCTED" means?

I thought it was a great interview, too! I never said I didn't. Bettyellen decided to dog me in three separate posts as being someone who "doesn't get it," insulting me, despite my avid support for DK. I don't like it, and I'm not sure why you expect me to just roll over for such bullshit.

.

[jumpoffdaplanet]

31. Well, from your responses I'd also say you don't get it

You tried to imply something false, were called on it and now you're digging the hole deeper

Apologize and cut your losses.

[Atman]

32. No.

I didn't IMPLY anything. I offered my interpretation of his words, which you cannot prove false. I might be right. I might not be. I never claimed it to be any sort of fact. But at least Betty and you and Iching have managed to completely misconstrue my post and hijack the thread. I have nothing to apologize for because you didn't understand what my post was about.

Have a nice day.

.

[bettyellen]

41. DK made an unequivocal statement counter to your "implication" - but you left it out...

because you have a "funny feeling" he meant what was obviously a joke meant to get Maher of his back with the assasination nonsence.
your OP is BS, and I believe you know it.

[Atman]

42. What was it? Quote it please. I watched the entire thing.

Never mind. If you insist on continuing to ignore the actual words of my post, then we really have nothing left to say to each other. Re-read my post ten or twelve time, with you blinders off, and you might "get it."

And don't forget who decided to start the insults.

.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bettyellen]

39. he did imply a big falsehood, thank you. i just tried to correct the record .

he needs a lesson in the DU rules also.....

[lovuian]

61. clap clap clap Dennis

:applause:

[alfredo]

26. He did mention our right to self defense when he spoke of

the Geneva Conventions.

[Atman]

28. Correct. After he said he wasn't in favor of war EVEN IF WE WERE ATTACKED.

Lines like THAT will certainly play well in Peoria. He "clarified" himself with the mention of the Geneva Conventions, as you pointed out. But there is now film of him saying that he would not defend America if attacked, regardless of how he "clarified" his position. Anyone thinking this type of stuff is going to help him are just freaking detached from political reality.

.

[lonestarnot]

38. It's those desirous of one liner politics that have "screwn" the country.

MSNBC with their "one line answer" fucking answer bullshit questions. Fuck that.

[alfredo]

40. They will edit it to paint it in the worst light.

[burythehatchet]

51. And he's right.

[Atman]

53. He may well be right...but can you imagine a major candidate selling that?

Mom & Pop Flyover don't understand this type of thinking. 'Specially those "eye fer n'eye" so-called Christians. Such a statement is virtual suicide for a presidential candidate. Thus my point that I don't think he did himself any favors last night. He's already got you and me hooked. But "middle 'Merka" will never buy it. They'll just blow him off as a crazy peacenik.

.

[burythehatchet]

56. But you know that the majority of people would agree with him

if he were given an equal platform. The problem has been that the corp media decide the narrative and the rules of engagement. Our views differ on this one issue because I believe that the strangle hold of the corp media is on the threshold of destruction. Alternate media and technologies are going to level the playing field.

[Atman]

59. Oh, absolutely. That's how I came aboard.

I was fed up and disgusted with what the media was shoving down our throats, the same ol' same ol' corporate whore-dogs. So I actually read his platform and went "Holy shit! This guy's views make sense, and are in near total agreement with my own!" And so in 2004, for the first time in my life, I was able to vote my conscience instead of voting strategically -- Kerry already had CT in a lock, so I didn't have to vote for him. I proudly pulled the lever for DK and never looked back. But how do we get America to do the same thing, to actually check out his platform? What you also must know is that the media still has a stranglehold on the messages that get out to most of America, and what the media and the republicans will pick up on from his appearance on Maher's show is that Dennis wouldn't fight back if Al Qaida attacked. That is just not a tenable position for a major candidate. We both know that isn't actually what he means, not what his actual position is, but he said he never believes war should be an option. That's what I meant when I said he's too bright for most of America...you and I and the rest of the pointy-headed-elites understand what his position is, but Mom & Pop Flyover will only hear "he'd leave us defenseless!" in the way he phrased his position. You try selling a solid gold bar in a box, but no one will buy it if the package says "Big Turd Inside!" Sadly, most of America will never look at the ingredients panel, they'll only listen to the advertising hype...and candidates, like it or not, don't really get to do their own "advertising." The corporate whore-dogs decide how their messages will be portrayed.

.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted sub-thread

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[Vox_Reason]

43. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

I'd crawl over broken glass to vote for Dennis Kucinich.

[cooolandrew]

44. I wouldn't discredit Kucinich for a second. Americans in general are...

... developing a healthy mistrust for media and that bodes well for Kucinich. Even if Dennis doesn't make it as president I hope he long continues to tell truth, loud, proud and true.

[SarahB]

48. I thought he did a great job.

DK is the best. He's not a viable candidate only because the corporate media says he's not. He's a funny, well spoken guy with wonderful ideas.

[Little Wing]

49. The problem isn't Dennis, the problem is Americans

[Atman]

54. I agree 100%

The problem is Americans and how the media is going to "package" Dennis' positions for them, regardless of what his real positions are.

.

[burythehatchet]

50. Could not disagree more,

HE showed the audience that there is a place for a vision that is an alternative to corporatism. That's what is destroying this planet.

[Atman]

55. I never denied that.

Once again -- and I'm sorry for beating this to death, but so much WRONG is being read into my post...

He showed BILL MAHER'S audience that there is a place for such a vision. You don't actually "disagree" with me at all. I'm only saying that his vision, his policies, his ideas, don't do any of us any good if he can't get past the first round of primaries. As such, he didn't do himself -- or America -- any favors last night by lobbing softballs for the republicans and the media to swat out of the park.

.

[MedleyMisty]

52. He's the #1 search on Yahoo today

I'd say that means he did something right. My personal opinion is that it was whipping out a pocket copy of the Constitution at the debate. It'd be nice to have a President who didn't use the Constitution as toilet paper.

[Swamp Rat]

57. Who cares what the 'moran' critics think?

I don't and obviously neither does Dennis... nor should you.

Don't worry about the 'morans' Atman. They will always be there and they will never change. Though they are a loud bunch, the good thing is they are being reduced in number exponentially as more and more Americans wake up to the fact that the GOP is a criminal enterprise bent on destroying America. ;)

[Atman]

60. Swampy, I worry what they think because I WANT TO SEE DK GET ELECTED!

Way cool graphic, btw!

.