Howard Dean on hardball says you do not need to mandate health insurance

[dkf]

They were able to force health insurance companies to take everybody with premiums no more than 20% above the other plans in Vermont.

[Captain Hilts]

1. You can't have a system that encourages free riders. In Canada, they do it through

taxes to make sure there are no free riders.

[grahamhgreen]

2. In Canada they have Single-Payer - No mandatory crapsurance form private scam companies.

[Captain Hilts]

16. EVERYBODY pays through taxes. No free riders. I had OHIP. nt

[grahamhgreen]

20. But you don't have to pay to a private company that will never pay out if you are really sick. nt

[Captain Hilts]

22. That's why I want single payer or a strong public option. nt

[dkf]

4. Well they did it in Vermont. Why would it work there and no where else?

And doesn't Vermont have the top ranking? Dr. Dean did a good job there.

[Captain Hilts]

17. If only the rest of the country were like Vermont...I wish! nt

[SoCalDem]

6. What "young people" fail to realize is this

The fact that they are "healthy", will not protect them from car accidents, scary pregnancies, miscarriages, falling & breaking something, or many other things that frail humans are susceptible to.

It has to be ALL-in, or it won;t work.. and it has to be fixed so that employers/unions are TOTALLY OUT of the health care procurement business.

Jobs should be about doing a task for pay, and then the boss is OUT of your "off-the-clock" business. It;s none of your boss' business what allergy meds you take, or if you smoke at your own home or is you have a drink or two on the weekend.

If you can perform the task he needs done, that should be IT!

of course if you are a driver or are in a job that puts YOU in a position to harm others, drug testing should be allowed, because your ON THE JOB usage could injure someone else..

[girl gone mad]

8. Guess you don't talk to many young people.

All of the ones I know are very well aware of the risks they face. I know I was when I went through my 20s without insurance.

[Captain Hilts]

19. Yes. But the current incentives discourage singles under 30 to buy insurance. nt

[dkf]

9. He said having the young people out of the plan didn't matter much

For their costs. They do cover everyone under 18 though through their Medicaid program.

[SoCalDem]

11. Vermont is an "old" state, and has a very small population

If young people are to be covered and treated in ERs and at clinics for acute care, they need to participate too. That's why it needs to be addressed through taxation, like FICA is now...with subsidies for low income people (like many young people are)

[dkf]

13. Wouldn't "old" states be more expensive then?

[SoCalDem]

14. Not necessarily, since most of the workforce would also be older

and the bulk of the payees..Not every "old person" is sickly :)

Dean said that he did not know how many young people participated.. perhaps it's not such a small number.. Once people reach their twenties and start having families, health care becomes an issue for them, and just because the under18's are covered, does not mean that young-Mom & young-Dad would skip coverage for themselves.. Once you are responsible for/to another person, you do tend to think of your own health :)

[Captain Hilts]

21. To spread costs over a lifetime it's VERY important. Pay when you're healthy...nt

[dkf]

28. When talking about paying into a system It might make more sense if you socked that money away

I would guess that if you put all your premiums into an account you would have a sizable fund by the time you get to unhealthier times. Would you need health insurance if you had say fifty to a hundred grand available? The real value might be the negotiated prices these companies get.

[Captain Hilts]

18. Exactly. nt

[KharmaTrain]

29. More Important...It Forces People Into Bad Jobs...

I know too many people who hate their jobs or employer but the only reason they remain is for the "benefits". It puts the employer into a far more powerful position that enables them to offer lower wages or to cut corners and demand silence or "your job". It's a major reason I support Public Option or any mechanism where a person can self-insure and not have to put up with the corporate despotism that goes on.

Cheers...

[SoCalDem]

31. and it discourages entrepreneurism...in a BIG way

A person with a great idea, cannot afford to go it alone and start a business if they happen to have family responsibilities, so they stick with dreary jobs they hate, when they might have had a successful business..and freed up a job that someone else might have been happy to take in their place.,

We were held hostage to a job that my husband loathed..for many years, because we happened to have a child that was born with a birth defect that required 8 years of many surgeries (29, actually), and hospital stays up of to 6 weeks at a pop...often twice to three times a year. We HAD to have that insurance, and they knew it.. They moved us all over the country (5 states in 4 years), and basically, my husband was a basketcase because he could not take any other job (and he did have offers)..

He really wanted to go into business for himself, but could never do it because we HAD to keep that insurance we had..

[elehhhhna]

3. "health" insurance is the problem, not the solution

[Yurovsky]

33. Yep, & single payer eliminates the problem* n/t

n/t

[ProSense]

5. Dean keeps saying that, but in fact VT hasn't been that successful

Nearly 15 years after implement its plan, Vermont still has 9.1 percent uninsured. That's 5 percent more than the projections for the current bill. By contrast:

Census Bureau reports that Massachusetts had the lowest 2008 rates of uninsured, while Texas had the highest.

[dkf]

12. Vermont tops the list of the nation's healthiest states for the third year in a row

While Mississippi comes in last, according to the 20th annual America's Health Rankings.

The rankings are produced by United Health Foundation, the American Public Health Association and Partnership for Prevention.

Click here for state-by-state rankings and an interactive map.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2009/11/vermont-tops-healthiest-state-list-mississippi-finishes-last/1

[ProSense]

26. It's ranked 9th in uninsured. Mass ranks 1st

VT - 10.2 percent uninsured

MA - 5.4 percent uninsured

[dkf]

27. It is ironic that health is defined by having insurance not by being healthy.

Maybe 10% uninsured is ok as long as doctor visits are available to those people if they choose to pay out of pocket. Having insurance doesn't guarantee payment nor good health especially for high deductible plans.

[madfloridian]

24. MA mandates insurance. VT does not.

That would make a big difference right there.

[gateley]

7. I heard that England's plan was going broke, and they were going to move

to for-profit (American!) system. Anybody else hear that?

I don't understand why we can't pay a fund/taxes, just like we pay insurance premiums, but with a fair cost, and no restrictions as there are now. Isn't that essentially what single payer is? :shrug:

[SoCalDem]

15. Nope. their conservative politicians keep beating that dead horse

they do not like the idea that those "immigrants" get to use the service, so they'd be okay with everyone losing it, just so the "undeserving people" don;t get any care..

[gateley]

23. Interesting. Sounds like a certain party we've come to know and loathe. My

friend's brother was doing some world travel, picked up something (don't remember if it was malaria or hepatitis -- something along those lines) -- probably in Egypt. Didn't start feeling bad until he got to Paris, then went on to London where he couldn't stand it any longer. Went to a hospital and the nurse said "did you get this while in England?" He said no, think it was Egypt, Paris, blah blah. So she asked again, very POINTEDLY. Did you get this while in England? Light bulb went on and he said "oh! why yes, I believe I did". He was in the hospital for six weeks until he was fully recovered, never got a bill.

My friend's Republican parents thought it was 'ridiculous' that he received the good care for free. :eyes:

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

10. Think about it, health insurance is a Ponzi scheme.

It needs to keep signing people up and raising rates to cover the increasing costs of health care and to make money at the same time. Way to much greed from all involved.

[rhett o rick]

34. For profit health insurance. Not Medicare. nt

[bvar22]

25. The good Doctor also said that:

The Democrats NEED to add a Medicare Expansion to 55 IMMEDIATELY (before the next election),

AND

that if the final bill does NOT include a Public Option, the Democrats could possibly lose the House in 2010.

I agree with Dr Dean and Harry Truman:

"When given the choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time." ---Harry Truman

QED Massachusetts

[depakid]

30. +1

My bet is that there are more than a couple of "Democratic" Senators who would like nothing better than to lose the House.

Thing is- it's entirely possible at this point that their actions will also result in a loss of the Senate- which means choice committee chairmanships and a lot of money from corporate donors also goes down the drain...

[bvar22]

32. If the Democrats "ram through" ....

...the "NEW" Obama Plan (Senate Plan Repackaged with Obama on the Label),
we WILL see a blood-bath at the polls.

The Democratic Party Leadership (Obama included) KNOW THIS....
and they simply don't care.
THEY (Corporate Democrats) would prefer to see seats GO to Corporate Republicans, since they all work for the same bosses.
THEY WILL work together to prevent any REAL Democrat form getting power.